Only 2 teams put in requests to interview Daboll

[Nihilarian]

On 2/26/2021 at 5:01 PM, Nihilarian said:

Daboll has put together some really good game plans for the passing game for the 2020 season no question. Yet, those plans faltered big time in the playoffs. The Bills run game was almost nonexistent some games.

 I don't see anyone here calling for his head at this point in this thread.

 

However, If Allen suffers a severe injury, concussion running the ball I could see that changing very quickly. Watching that hit on Allen in that video I linked by the Patriots should send chills down every Bills fans spine. 

 

 

Even the Bills GM Brandon Beane stated that the team needs to focus on building a better run game. 

 

As to my earlier point, if Daboll is so good at developing QB Josh Allen, then what happened to Nathan Peterman? Why didn't that young, inexperienced QB evolve into even a decent backup under Daboll? 

 

It's my contention that Daboll has called the Bills offense from the very start like he has an experienced, veteran QB behind center and he hasn't had that before this season. This year, in his third season, Josh Allen has evolved into a top QB in this passing scheme. 

 

I also feel that Daboll is riding Josh Allen's coattails in using the kid to show how great "his' passing offensive scheme is...and utilizing him with designed runs because he can't figure out how to get more out of the RBs on the roster. 

 

If the man is such a good offensive coordinator, then why does the Buffalo Bills run game look like such a dismal failure with just the Bills RB's? 

[Don Otreply]

26 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And he turned one down.

Glad to hear that 😁👍

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

Shouldn’t be surprising news

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I am not saying Daboll is on his way to stardom. But Bills fans want to give him all the blame for 2019 and none of the credit for 2020. It is intellectually illogical. 

 

 

So enough Bills fans are irrationally critical of Daboll that you can label "Bills fans" in general as anti-Daboll?

 

I think you are exaggerating a lot there.     

 

Daboll has a mostly unsuccessful history as an NFL OC....... it's illogical to suggest otherwise.........because it's just a fact..........he has plenty to prove yet.

 

That doesn't mean he can't but there are plenty of coaches who had a brief run where they looked like geniuses and then it turned out it was just a good idea or two that was caught on a rising tide that doomed them to success.   Briefly.

 

What you want to see from a great coordinator is the kind of thing we saw from Wade Phillips for decades...........the ability to adapt and get the most out of the personnel on hand consistently from week to week and from year to year.     Not just a brief success.....even if it were GREAT like that of a Sam Wyche or Mike Martz.     

[Don Otreply]

9 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

 I don't see anyone here calling for his head at this point in this thread.

 

However, If Allen suffers a severe injury, concussion running the ball I could see that changing very quickly. Watching that hit on Allen in that video I linked by the Patriots should send chills down every Bills fans spine. 

 

 

Even the Bills GM Brandon Beane stated that the team needs to focus on building a better run game. 

 

As to my earlier point, if Daboll is so good at developing QB Josh Allen, then what happened to Nathan Peterman? Why didn't that young, inexperienced QB evolve into even a decent backup under Daboll? 

 

It's my contention that Daboll has called the Bills offense from the very start like he has an experienced, veteran QB behind center and he hasn't had that before this season. This year, in his third season, Josh Allen has evolved into a top QB in this passing scheme. 

 

I also feel that Daboll is riding Josh Allen's coattails in using the kid to show how great "his' passing offensive scheme is...and utilizing him with designed runs because he can't figure out how to get more out of the RBs on the roster. 

 

If the man is such a good offensive coordinator, then why does the Buffalo Bills run game look like such a dismal failure with just the Bills RB's? 

That 13-3 regular season record and division championship, and post season wins does say he is doing most things right, wouldn’t ya think..., that and there's more to it than meets the eye, we had Ford injured then out on IR, and Spain who the previous season was a fine run blocker, then he got to big for his britches..., having both out/gone made a big difference in the run game, this past season, ya can’t just poop out a good O line guy and call it a day... it ain’t that easy... it’s like you don’t think the coaching staff is busy trying to fix the issue, cool yer jets a little😁👍

[JGMcD2]

39 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

As to my earlier point, if Daboll is so good at developing QB Josh Allen, then what happened to Nathan Peterman? Why didn't that young, inexperienced QB evolve into even a decent backup under Daboll? 

I agree with almost everything you’ve said... but this is just straight up illogical. 
 

Josh is a generational physical talent and took 3 years to get where he is with all of the resources and time invested in just Josh Allen. 
 

Nathan Peterman had 1 season with Brian Daboll in which Brian Daboll was pouring all of his time into the aforementioned generational physical talent drafted that year. I mean *****, the guy is supposed to perform miracles and turn a JAG 5th round QB into a useful piece in just 1 year? 

Edited February 28, 2021 by JGMcD2

[US Egg]

Sal who?

[Nihilarian]

25 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

I agree with almost everything you’ve said... but this is just straight up illogical. 
 

Josh is a generational physical talent and took 3 years to get where he is with all of the resources and time invested in just Josh Allen. 
 

Nathan Peterman had 1 season with Brian Daboll in which Brian Daboll was pouring all of his time into the aforementioned generational physical talent drafted that year. I mean *****, the guy is supposed to perform miracles and turn a JAG 5th round QB into a useful piece in just 1 year? 

While I agree that the difference between Peterman and Allen is a grand canyon wide gap. Why didn't the OC see this previous to the team giving him the start?

 

Welp, with Peterman starting that 2018 season at QB, he got all the reps and all the focus of that  OC in training camp and the preseason... and yet he couldn't even develop him into a decent backup QB holding a clipboard? 

 

Peterman is still in the NFL as a backup QB to QB Derek Carr with the Raiders.

 

Anyway, if you go back and watch that 2018 season opener Ravens game that Peterman started and played nearly three full quarters. Bills OC Brian Daboll was calling pass plays that Peterman simply didn't have the arm to complete. 

 

 

 

Just like Josh Allen, I feel that Brian Daboll is learning as he goes and while the Bills passing offense was outstanding during most of the regular season in 2020. They did fall on their face for that Titans game and twice against the Chiefs. Not to mention, a rather, not very good performance in any game in the playoffs. 

 

Against the Baltimore Ravens, that high scoring regular season Bills offense only scored 10 points that game. 

 

They also failed to keep up with the Chiefs as Josh Allen was under constant pressure all game long. Ten QB hits and four sacks by the Chiefs defense. Buffalo, with not much of a run game the QB is forced to carry the offense. It shouldn't be that way. 

 

Where was the passing game innovation for the playoffs we all saw during the regular season?

 

In any event, for the 2022 season, I can only hope that Daboll get the Bills run game working as well as the passing game worked this past season. And the passing game keeps evolving into an offense that nobody can stop. 

 

 

[JGMcD2]

1 minute ago, Nihilarian said:

While I agree that the difference between Peterman and Allen is a grand canyon wide gap. Why didn't the OC see this previous to the team giving him the start?

 

Welp, with Peterman starting that 2018 season at QB, he got all the reps and all the focus of that  OC in training camp and the preseason... and yet he couldn't even develop him into a decent backup QB holding a clipboard? 

 

Peterman is still in the NFL as a backup QB to QB Derek Carr with the Raiders.

 

Anyway, if you go back and watch that 2018 season opener Ravens game that Peterman started and played nearly three full quarters. Bills OC Brian Daboll was calling pass plays that Peterman simply didn't have the arm to complete. 

This doesn’t even make any sense and using it as a way to knock Daboll is just absurd. It’s literally one of the biggest reaches I’ve ever seen on this board and that’s not an exaggeration. 
 

Everyone and their mother knew Josh Allen was better than Nathan Peterman. The Bills spent a 5th round pick on Peterman and a 1st round pick on Allen. You think Daboll sat there and said “Oh boy, let’s draft this Allen kid even though Peterman is better” and then watched them in camp and said “Yeah, he’s significantly better we can’t start Allen.” They made the call to start Peterman because they were going to try and let Josh sit an watch for as long as possible... it has nothing to do with saying Peterman was better than Josh. If you seriously think anyone in the building, especially Daboll thought Peterman was better it’s not even worth continuing. 

 

Literally the biggest, most nonsensical reach I’ve seen to date. 

[ganesh]

On 2/27/2021 at 1:56 AM, First Round Bust said:

I kind of wish Frazier had gotten the Texans job, we would have gotten 2 number 3 picks and the D is in good hands overall with coach McD and maybe a change would do the D good.  Our D line coach was the Panthers D coord as well so we are well stocked coaching that side of the ball..which makes me feel better that Daboll was not a prime candidate to move on...their loss is our gain.

 

judging by the number of interviews... interesting that Eric Bieniemy had another year of consideration and no job.

wonder if he has been given an offer and turned it down or  does he interview poorly and suffers from the stigma of basically running Andy Reid's offense for him.

How does it matter if he calls the game or if it is Reid's offense.   Teams hiring Bieniemy would be looking for HC value from him. He would not be joining these teams to be their OC

[Nihilarian]

34 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

This doesn’t even make any sense and using it as a way to knock Daboll is just absurd. It’s literally one of the biggest reaches I’ve ever seen on this board and that’s not an exaggeration. 
 

Everyone and their mother knew Josh Allen was better than Nathan Peterman. The Bills spent a 5th round pick on Peterman and a 1st round pick on Allen. You think Daboll sat there and said “Oh boy, let’s draft this Allen kid even though Peterman is better” and then watched them in camp and said “Yeah, he’s significantly better we can’t start Allen.” They made the call to start Peterman because they were going to try and let Josh sit an watch for as long as possible... it has nothing to do with saying Peterman was better than Josh. If you seriously think anyone in the building, especially Daboll thought Peterman was better it’s not even worth continuing. 

 

Literally the biggest, most nonsensical reach I’ve seen to date. 

Nowhere, did I debate that anyone thought Peterman was the better QB.  Don't make stuff up to to defend Daboll. In fact, I stated, that the gap between them was grand canyon wide. 

 

What was absurd, was the thinking that Nathan Peterman was good enough to start that game in the first place. 

 

[JGMcD2]

8 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

Nowhere, did I debate that anyone thought Peterman was the better QB.  Don't make stuff up to to defend Daboll. In fact, I stated, that the gap between them was grand canyon wide. 

 

What was absurd, was the thinking that Nathan Peterman was good enough to start that game in the first place. 

 

 

52 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

While I agree that the difference between Peterman and Allen is a grand canyon wide gap. Why didn't the OC see this previous to the team giving him the start?

You literally said it right here... WHY DIDN’T THE OC (DABOLL) SEE THIS (THE GAP) PREVIOUS TO THE TEAM GIVING HIM (PETERMAN) THE START?
 

Don’t say absolutely idiotic things and then have no way to defend them. 
 

This is all based on the premise that the OC is the sole person deciding the starting QB AND completely neglecting the fact that Josh Allen wasn’t starting Week 1 regardless of if our QB was Nathan Peterman, Nate Robinson or a guy they grabbed working at a Nathan’s hot dog stand. 

Edited February 28, 2021 by JGMcD2

[GunnerBill]

8 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

So enough Bills fans are irrationally critical of Daboll that you can label "Bills fans" in general as anti-Daboll?

 

I think you are exaggerating a lot there.     

 

Daboll has a mostly unsuccessful history as an NFL OC....... it's illogical to suggest otherwise.........because it's just a fact..........he has plenty to prove yet.

 

That doesn't mean he can't but there are plenty of coaches who had a brief run where they looked like geniuses and then it turned out it was just a good idea or two that was caught on a rising tide that doomed them to success.   Briefly.

 

What you want to see from a great coordinator is the kind of thing we saw from Wade Phillips for decades...........the ability to adapt and get the most out of the personnel on hand consistently from week to week and from year to year.     Not just a brief success.....even if it were GREAT like that of a Sam Wyche or Mike Martz.     

 

Nobody is pretending Daboll is Wade Phillips. If you think anyone is arguing he is a great coordinator you are in the wrong place. 

[Mister Defense]

On 2/26/2021 at 3:26 PM, First Round Bust said:

I kind of wish Frazier had gotten the Texans job, we would have gotten 2 number 3 picks and the D is in good hands overall with coach McD and maybe a change would do the D good.  Our D line coach was the Panthers D coord as well so we are well stocked coaching that side of the ball..which makes me feel better that Daboll was not a prime candidate to move on...their loss is our gain.

 

judging by the number of interviews... interesting that Eric Bieniemy had another year of consideration and no job.

wonder if he has been given an offer and turned it down or  does he interview poorly and suffers from the stigma of basically running Andy Reid's offense for him.

 

No, to me, almost assuredly the reason Bieniemy did not get a head coaching job and not many serious interviews(?), and may never become a head coach, is because of his many run ins with the law when he was younger.  It does not, in my view, have to do with the play calling thing or the fact that he is black, but  is because of the facts related to his sorted personal history and crimes.

 

Do you think any NFL owner will ever put their over $2 billion team in the hands of someone with such a sorted legal past? I don't, at least not in the foreseeable future, as there is no way they would want this person as the face of their valuable franchise.  Just a few of his many criminal acts/convictions would be enough to make almost all NFL owner not consider him.  His best chance may be to replace Reid when he retires.

 

Edited February 28, 2021 by Mister Defense

[Thurman#1]

On 2/27/2021 at 6:02 AM, jeremy2020 said:

He's had one good season. This would be like handing over your team to Adam Gase based on his 1 good year with Manning. 

 

 

He's had two good seasons. Which is why he had an interview last year as well.

 

But yeah, I think people may think two seasons isn't enough yet.

 

Which down the road could make a lot of teams look stupid. Or maybe just the opposite, making them look smart. Right now it's not possible to tell which will be the best way people look back at passing on him this year.

[Rochesterfan]

On 2/26/2021 at 3:07 PM, YoloinOhio said:

Interesting. 

 

On 2/26/2021 at 4:51 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

 

 

https://www.buffalobills.com/news/brian-daboll-named-ap-s-assistant-coach-of-the-year

 

🙄

 

I expect there are some concerns about Daboll as a HC

 

Somehow I don't think concern about his abilities as an OC and someone who can develop a young QB are at the top

 

 

First off - if you look at the list and the rules the NFL used with COVID - it was harder for playoff coordinators without a bye to do interviews and there were fewer requests.  The number of byes was cut in half due to the set-up - therefore cutting some logical time a guy like Daboll had to interview.  Even a guy like Bieniemy, with bye weeks, didn’t interview for all of the requests - COVID limited it.

 

Second - I think given their limited time and the current pandemic and the fact that Daboll is “home” right now - I believe he was looking for a specific situation and some of these playoff coordinators without byes - gave some limited lists of who they might potentially interview with.  
 

Third - I think Hapless is spot on - I don’t think his job as OC (running game or not) or his development of JA would hold him back.  I do think in some of his previous gigs and even here in Buffalo early - his attitude and his temperament might be more of a concern.  He is known to be a fiery and passionate guy that has on more than one occasion said things to the players that in the heat of the moment hurt relationships.  It was part of the drive to move him to the press box and get him away from Josh and allow someone else to be with Josh on the sidelines.  Those things matter.

 

In the end - I am not surprised by the limited requests and I think Daboll has a plan on his next HC gig - he is looking for a Chargers/Jets type situation with either a very young QB or a very high draft pick that he can mold and his current situation is good - so there is no need to interview with teams like Detroit, Atlanta, or even Philadelphia (with the mess their QBs became).  If there is one thing I think McDermott teaches - it is preparation and I would think Daboll was prepared for what interviews he would accept and ultimately what his plan was.  We will see, but it is better for us - keep the consistency.

[BADOLBILZ]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Nobody is pretending Daboll is Wade Phillips. If you think anyone is arguing he is a great coordinator you are in the wrong place. 

 

 

I think a lot of people here do think that his recent award is proof that he is an elite OC..........those who point to it as proof that he isn't overrated think that he just won the MVP award for coordinators.

 

The reality is that those type of awards tend to be given out to they who most exceed expectations.    And Daboll is a guy whose high water mark in 6 years of NFL OC work was what?  24th?   So yeah he made a jump from never having an offense that wasn't bad to one that was near the top of the league.   

 

[The 9 Isles]

I didn’t read this thread at all. 

 

All I know is that Josh Allen is the man. 

[Figster]

On 2/26/2021 at 4:35 PM, BarleyNY said:

He developed a very raw QB.  That is huge in today’s NFL.  I am surprised he didn’t see more action.  I wonder if he’s set on staying and it got around.  

Good speculation on the word getting out that Daboll was not interested IMO.

[TBBills]

On 2/26/2021 at 3:17 PM, HOUSE said:

The running game squashed his resume

Very doubt that, if anything it should boost in today's NFL...

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I think a lot of people here do think that his recent award is proof that he is an elite OC..........those who point to it as proof that he isn't overrated think that he just won the MVP award for coordinators.

 

The reality is that those type of awards tend to be given out to they who most exceed expectations.    And Daboll is a guy whose high water mark in 6 years of NFL OC work was what?  24th?   So yeah he made a jump from never having an offense that wasn't bad to one that was near the top of the league.   

 

 

My point was only that I think he deserves some credit for what the Bills offense did in 2020. I have never argued he is an elite OC. He had a good year with good talent, granted, but he did a good job. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

On 2/26/2021 at 4:27 PM, Nextmanup said:

Doesn't reflect well on Daboll, but...

 

It is possible some teams wanted to pursue him but did not b/c we were making a deep playoff run.  These teams like to get all those coaching slots in order as fast as possible.

 

It seems a little nuts to me, but people on the inside say this is the case.

 

Perhaps if we had not even made the playoffs this year, he would have had more interview requests.

 

 

Nope. Bienemy was on every single list. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

Personally I think teams don't want to wait that long for teams in the playoffs.  Once the Bills beat Baltimore, Daboll's chances were done.   I think if the Bills had beaten the Chiefs, Bienemy had a chance, but again once the Chiefs were SB bound, his chances also were done. 

 

Not sure how they can solve that issue?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 2/26/2021 at 2:16 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

Overrated as an OC........he's got too much of that "wicky-wacky"..........as they used to say about Mularkey and Sam Wyche.......in his play calling and design.

Looks great until it looks woeful. 

Doesn't mean he couldn't be a great HC but I think that and having been fired at so many other OC jobs are significant negatives.

 

On 2/26/2021 at 3:51 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

https://www.buffalobills.com/news/brian-daboll-named-ap-s-assistant-coach-of-the-year

 

🙄

 

I expect there are some concerns about Daboll as a HC

Somehow I don't think concern about his abilities as an OC and someone who can develop a young QB are at the top

 

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

I think a lot of people here do think that his recent award is proof that he is an elite OC..........those who point to it as proof that he isn't overrated think that he just won the MVP award for coordinators.

 

Funny how something posted to address your comments "Overrated as an OC.....looks great until it looks woeful" gets manipulated by you as someone arguing that Daboll is an "elite OC" or "just won the MVP award for coordinators.

 

There is a lot of space between "overrated" "woeful" etc etc and "elite".  Because someone considers it eye-rolling that you argue the OC at the helm of the Bills best statistical offensive performance in, literally, 30 years, is "overrated", doesn't follow that they are arguing that he's "elite". 

 

But when a guy is voted Assistant Coach of the Year by people who spend a lot of time watching football and some of whom spend time in the details of X's and O's, it probably means there's something there with the guy.

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

 

Funny how something posted to address your comments "Overrated as an OC.....looks great until it looks woeful" gets manipulated by you as someone arguing that Daboll is an "elite OC" or "just won the MVP award for coordinators.

 

There is a lot of space between "overrated" "woeful" etc etc and "elite".  Because someone considers it eye-rolling that you argue the OC at the helm of the Bills best statistical offensive performance in, literally, 30 years, is "overrated", doesn't follow that they are arguing that he's "elite". 

 

But when a guy is voted Assistant Coach of the Year by people who spend a lot of time watching football and some of whom spend time in the details of X's and O's, it probably means there's something there with the guy.

 

 

 

 

There isn't really a lot of space between Daboll being the NFL assistant coach of the year and 6 years of WOEFUL offenses.

 

There is just one season.

 

There was a lot of hyperbole thrown around about him during the season.......how brilliant he was and how it was inevitable that they were going to lose him to a HC position...........a lot of people forgetting that he has an overwhelmingly poor track record as an NFL OC.........hence my point about being "overrated"...........and then during the postseason his offense did not look good and it culminated in a woeful performance in the AFC Championship game.  

 

Like I've said........I think he's a good enough NFL OC........you might even say that that type of OC is the kind you want because he shouldn't warrant a ton of HC interest due to a very poor early track record.........and therefore you can keep your system in place and draft and develop for it and hopefully that OC continues to grow as a game planner and play caller.    

 

  

Edited February 28, 2021 by BADOLBILZ

[stinky finger]

 

The way teams change HC's, another good showing by the Bills offense and BD will be a wanted man. 

 

Seems pretty logical.

[BADOLBILZ]

13 minutes ago, inaugural balls said:

 

The way teams change HC's, another good showing by the Bills offense and BD will be a wanted man. 

 

Seems pretty logical.

 

 

Clock is also ticking though.

 

He'd be 47 in his first NFL game as HC in 2022.......the trend is more toward hiring younger first time HC's.

 

As I've said.....as far as his HC aspirations go....showing growth as a game planner and play caller would be more useful than just a repeat of this past season.

 

He'll get his chances to show off.......the road game at KC could be big individual point for his candidacy after two clunkers against the Chiefs in 2020.

 

[GunnerBill]

I think the big reason he didn't get a job is that unfortunately for Daboll the trend of just hire the hot OC has died a bit. This year teams were really focusing their search on guys that display strong leadership qualities. I have long since argued that matter more at HC than Xs and Os and I am not totally sold on Daboll in that regard. Of course you can go two far the other way and hire a Dan Campbell type who would run through a wall head first and come up the other side with the same number of brain cells he started with.... 

[Nihilarian]

18 hours ago, JGMcD2 said:

 

You literally said it right here... WHY DIDN’T THE OC (DABOLL) SEE THIS (THE GAP) PREVIOUS TO THE TEAM GIVING HIM (PETERMAN) THE START?
 

Don’t say absolutely idiotic things and then have no way to defend them. 
 

This is all based on the premise that the OC is the sole person deciding the starting QB AND completely neglecting the fact that Josh Allen wasn’t starting Week 1 regardless of if our QB was Nathan Peterman, Nate Robinson or a guy they grabbed working at a Nathan’s hot dog stand. 

First off, calm down... 

 

Most people would think that an NFL offensive coordinator would be able to distinguish that a young, inexperienced QB would be good enough to start a game in the NFL.

Apparently not in this case! 

 

The Bills decided to go with Peterman when they had QB AJ McCarron who they outright cut before the season started after giving him a 2 year, 10 mill contact. McCarron started and finished the 3rd preseason game against the Bears with a comeback win and 3 TD passes. 

 

Someone must have gone to the HC and stated that Peterman was the better QB and should start the season for Buffalo. McD doesn't make the offensive decisions by himself. 

 

Anyway, there are real reasons as to why Brian Daboll has fielded such horrible passing offenses as an NFL OC previous to the 2020 season. Just like there is a reason that Nathan Peterman failed so miserably in his first NFL start.

 

Not just bad... as in having a bad day! There was no way that Peterman should have even been on that field that day! Nearly three full quarters of football, 5 of 18 for 24 yards, 2 INTs, 3 sacks with a rating of 0.0! 

 

If you look back in this thread, I stated that Daboll calls plays like he has an experienced veteran QB under center and he has been doing this since day one. It didn't matter if the QB at hand was capable of running "his" scheme. He was going to run it the way he wanted, regardless. 

 

Look at that 2018 first game against the Baltimore Ravens, its like nobody watched film on this team and what they do on defense. A team noted to have a ferocious defense in which they blitz nearly 50% of their defensive snaps. So, starting an inexperienced QB against that defense most OC's would first work the run game and then call a lot of short passes, dump offs and screens to give that young QB some confidence going forward. 

 

It started out that way, except the run game didn't work at all as McCoy was stuffed in his first few run attempts. So, what did this OC do? He put the QB under the gun by forcing him to make pass plays behind a very poor offensive line, with a rather poor receiving corps. 

 

On a 3rd and 7 instead of just trying to move the chains the OC calls for a deep pass, Incomplete. 

 

Bills QBs were sacked 6x in that game and under constant duress from blitzes. Under Daboll, the run game fails so it all falls on the QB to make things work...and that played right into the teeth of that Ravens defense. 

 

(* The Buffalo Bills played the Baltimore Ravens again in 2019 and it was as if they had never seen this team before. Six sacks on Josh Allen and he was under constant pressure all game long.

12 QB hits. Again that year, the Bills had no answer for the constant blitzing by that Ravens defense.)

 

 

Bottom line here, is that Daboll was oft times calling for deep passes that Peterman simply couldn't make and some throws were intercepted. He didn't have enough arm to make those throws. Why call them if he can't make them?

 

The Bills offense was a cluster of eff ups with plays that didn't work both run/pass, lack of protection from the line, and when things actually started to go right... penalties (10 for 100 yards).

 

The buck stops with the offensive coordinator when the team can't run the ball, can't throw the ball and the line can't stop being penalized for stupid mistakes. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

Personally I think teams don't want to wait that long for teams in the playoffs.  Once the Bills beat Baltimore, Daboll's chances were done.   I think if the Bills had beaten the Chiefs, Bienemy had a chance, but again once the Chiefs were SB bound, his chances also were done. 

 

Not sure how they can solve that issue?

 

I'm trying to remember what show he was on ......asdfasdfasdf.....Cris Collinsworth podcast with Richard Sherman, that's what it was.

 

Beane brought up that he was surprised neither Daboll nor Leslie Frazier got a job...said in particular Leslie Frazier deserved a HC job and he thought he would have been a good match for the Texans. 

 

Said that he felt it's a problem that teams don't want to wait to hire assistant coaches whose teams go deep into the playoffs, and that he intended to raise that point with the NFL and ask them to change the system to delay the start of interviews for everyone until at least after the Championship games.

[GunnerBill]

13 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

First off, calm down... 

 

Most people would think that an NFL offensive coordinator would be able to distinguish that a young, inexperienced QB would be good enough to start a game in the NFL.

Apparently not in this case! 

 

The Bills decided to go with Peterman when they had QB AJ McCarron who they outright cut before the season started after giving him a 2 year, 10 mill contact. McCarron started and finished the 3rd preseason game against the Bears with a comeback win and 3 TD passes. 

 

Someone must have gone to the HC and stated that Peterman was the better QB and should start the season for Buffalo. McD doesn't make the offensive decisions by himself. 

 

Anyway, there are real reasons as to why Brian Daboll has fielded such horrible passing offenses as an NFL OC previous to the 2020 season. Just like there is a reason that Nathan Peterman failed so miserably in his first NFL start.

 

Not just bad... as in having a bad day! There was no way that Peterman should have even been on that field that day! Nearly three full quarters of football, 5 of 18 for 24 yards, 2 INTs, 3 sacks with a rating of 0.0! 

 

If you look back in this thread, I stated that Daboll calls plays like he has an experienced veteran QB under center and he has been doing this since day one. It didn't matter if the QB at hand was capable of running "his" scheme. He was going to run it the way he wanted, regardless. 

 

Look at that 2018 first game against the Baltimore Ravens, its like nobody watched film on this team and what they do on defense. A team noted to have a ferocious defense in which they blitz nearly 50% of their defensive snaps. So, starting an inexperienced QB against that defense most OC's would first work the run game and then call a lot of short passes, dump offs and screens to give that young QB some confidence going forward. 

 

It started out that way, except the run game didn't work at all as McCoy was stuffed in his first few run attempts. So, what did this OC do? He put the QB under the gun by forcing him to make pass plays behind a very poor offensive line, with a rather poor receiving corps. 

 

On a 3rd and 7 instead of just trying to move the chains the OC calls for a deep pass, Incomplete. 

 

Bills QBs were sacked 6x in that game and under constant duress from blitzes. Under Daboll, the run game fails so it all falls on the QB to make things work...and that played right into the teeth of that Ravens defense. 

 

(* The Buffalo Bills played the Baltimore Ravens again in 2019 and it was as if they had never seen this team before. Six sacks on Josh Allen and he was under constant pressure all game long.

12 QB hits. Again that year, the Bills had no answer for the constant blitzing by that Ravens defense.)

 

 

Bottom line here, is that Daboll was oft times calling for deep passes that Peterman simply couldn't make and some throws were intercepted. He didn't have enough arm to make those throws. Why call them if he can't make them?

 

The Bills offense was a cluster of eff ups with plays that didn't work both run/pass, lack of protection from the line, and when things actually started to go right... penalties (10 for 100 yards).

 

The buck stops with the offensive coordinator when the team can't run the ball, can't throw the ball and the line can't stop being penalized for stupid mistakes. 

 

I don't think Daboll ever wanted to start Peterman. That was on McDermott the first time, the last time and every time. And I am a huge McDermott fan. But I honestly believe that it got to the point where Beane had to step in and say "Sean we need to cut this guy". McDermott forced him into the lineup ahead of Tyrod before Daboll even got here. Peterman was McDermott's mistake and even though he owned it every time he couldn't shake the habit. He loved Nate as a person and it coloured his viewpoint.

[GunnerBill]

11 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm trying to remember what show he was on ......asdfasdfasdf.....Cris Collinsworth podcast with Richard Sherman, that's what it was.

 

Beane brought up that he was surprised neither Daboll nor Leslie Frazier got a job...said in particular Leslie Frazier deserved a HC job and he thought he would have been a good match for the Texans. 

 

Said that he felt it's a problem that teams don't want to wait to hire assistant coaches whose teams go deep into the playoffs, and that he intended to raise that point with the NFL and ask them to change the system to delay the start of interviews for everyone until at least after the Championship games.

 

Yea I heard that. I have though the same in the past but it means moving the whole offseason back if they do it because if new staffs on the whole don't get hired until mid feb until instead of mid Jan it is a huge disadvantage if Free Agency remains mid March and the Draft late April. 1 month to totally self scout the roster you just inherited, make decisions on your own free agents and negotiate any deals you need to do, scout other teams' free agents... it just isn't enough time. They'd also have to move the Senior Bowl back and then the combine and pro days and while there is a dead couple of dead weeks before the Draft so they might be able to claw some of that back I just think it moves everything out by a month and coaches and personnel staffs only get about 4 weeks of down time the whole year as it is in June and early July. I am not in favour of eating into that any further. Basically in theory I agree with Beane. In practice I think it is hard to find the time in the NFL calendar to make it happen. 

Edited February 28, 2021 by GunnerBill

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm trying to remember what show he was on ......asdfasdfasdf.....Cris Collinsworth podcast with Richard Sherman, that's what it was.

 

Beane brought up that he was surprised neither Daboll nor Leslie Frazier got a job...said in particular Leslie Frazier deserved a HC job and he thought he would have been a good match for the Texans. 

 

Said that he felt it's a problem that teams don't want to wait to hire assistant coaches whose teams go deep into the playoffs, and that he intended to raise that point with the NFL and ask them to change the system to delay the start of interviews for everyone until at least after the Championship games.

 

So I agree with half of what Beane stated, "Yes it is a problem"  but don't like his solution at all!  Roughly 2/3 of the teams in the league don't make the playoffs, seems that kind of penalizes the majority of the league. 

 

I guess if I had the chance to address Beane on this I'd ask him:  "So are you telling me between the time the clock hit zero in week 17 against Miami, and the end of the AFC championship game against KC, you never gave one thought as to moves you might be making in the off season or had zero discussions about anything related to this with McD, Terry or anyone else?" If TBD is any indicator, there was plenty of discussion about next season in that same time interval.  LOL  How many cut/re-sign John Brown threads were there during that time!

 

And if you can only start interviews the day after the conference championship games it may be a week before you finish the interviews and make a hire.  Meanwhile Beane and company at that point were definitely thinking about next year.   Were the futures contracts announced like a day or two after the KC game?  Didn't they sign Kenny Stills after the regular season ended?  They got time to think about what they might do with him moving forward, something others still looking to hire a coach or GM wouldn't be able to.

[JGMcD2]

14 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

First off, calm down... 

 

Most people would think that an NFL offensive coordinator would be able to distinguish that a young, inexperienced QB would be good enough to start a game in the NFL.

Apparently not in this case! 

 

The Bills decided to go with Peterman when they had QB AJ McCarron who they outright cut before the season started after giving him a 2 year, 10 mill contact. McCarron started and finished the 3rd preseason game against the Bears with a comeback win and 3 TD passes. 

 

Someone must have gone to the HC and stated that Peterman was the better QB and should start the season for Buffalo. McD doesn't make the offensive decisions by himself. 

 

Anyway, there are real reasons as to why Brian Daboll has fielded such horrible passing offenses as an NFL OC previous to the 2020 season. Just like there is a reason that Nathan Peterman failed so miserably in his first NFL start.

 

Not just bad... as in having a bad day! There was no way that Peterman should have even been on that field that day! Nearly three full quarters of football, 5 of 18 for 24 yards, 2 INTs, 3 sacks with a rating of 0.0! 

 

If you look back in this thread, I stated that Daboll calls plays like he has an experienced veteran QB under center and he has been doing this since day one. It didn't matter if the QB at hand was capable of running "his" scheme. He was going to run it the way he wanted, regardless. 

 

Look at that 2018 first game against the Baltimore Ravens, its like nobody watched film on this team and what they do on defense. A team noted to have a ferocious defense in which they blitz nearly 50% of their defensive snaps. So, starting an inexperienced QB against that defense most OC's would first work the run game and then call a lot of short passes, dump offs and screens to give that young QB some confidence going forward. 

 

It started out that way, except the run game didn't work at all as McCoy was stuffed in his first few run attempts. So, what did this OC do? He put the QB under the gun by forcing him to make pass plays behind a very poor offensive line, with a rather poor receiving corps. 

 

On a 3rd and 7 instead of just trying to move the chains the OC calls for a deep pass, Incomplete. 

 

Bills QBs were sacked 6x in that game and under constant duress from blitzes. Under Daboll, the run game fails so it all falls on the QB to make things work...and that played right into the teeth of that Ravens defense. 

 

(* The Buffalo Bills played the Baltimore Ravens again in 2019 and it was as if they had never seen this team before. Six sacks on Josh Allen and he was under constant pressure all game long.

12 QB hits. Again that year, the Bills had no answer for the constant blitzing by that Ravens defense.)

 

 

Bottom line here, is that Daboll was oft times calling for deep passes that Peterman simply couldn't make and some throws were intercepted. He didn't have enough arm to make those throws. Why call them if he can't make them?

 

The Bills offense was a cluster of eff ups with plays that didn't work both run/pass, lack of protection from the line, and when things actually started to go right... penalties (10 for 100 yards).

 

The buck stops with the offensive coordinator when the team can't run the ball, can't throw the ball and the line can't stop being penalized for stupid mistakes. 

Calm down? You told me I was “making things up” even though you clearly lied about what YOU said and have yet to admit you said it. It’s okay to be wrong, especially when it’s as blatant as it is right now...
 

You’re talking about preseason performance? Nathan Peterman absolutely blew McCarron out of the water during the preseason. Here you are again being flat out wrong. Peterman started the 3rd preseason game... McCarron labored through the 4th. 
 

Week 1 vs Carolina

Peterman: 9/10 for 118 yards 1 TD and 1 INT
McCarron: 7/10 for 116 yards 0 TD and 0 INT

 

Week 2 vs Cleveland 
 

Peterman: 8/10 for 113 yards 1 TD and 0 INT

McCarron: 3/6 for 12 yards 0 TD and 0 INT

 

Week 3 vs Cincinnati 

 

Peterman: 16/21 for 200 yards 2 TD and 0 INT

McCarron: DID NOT PLAY

 

Week 4 vs Chicago

 

Peterman: DID NOT PLAY

McCarron: 13/34 for 156 yards 3 TD and 2 INT

 

TOTAL: 3 Games each

 

Peterman: 33/41 80% COMP% 431 yards 4 TD and 1 INT

 

McCarron: 23/50 46% COMP% 284 yards 3 TD and 2 INT 

 

You’re just so far out of your element. You’re so heavily entrenched in the first game Daboll had called for the Bills with Nathan Peterman that you’re not even recognizing the growth. 
 

I’m going to point something out to you about player development, it’s really a novel concept. It’s what Daboll did and whether you want to believe it worked or not fine, you’re clearly not able to comprehend how played development works... but here.

 

Josh Allen was a raw player... Josh Allen needed to experience things against good competition. Brian Daboll had some training wheels on for Josh, but it was a pretty conscious effort (it’s been talked about) to just try and expose him to everything possible so he can learn. So yes, he ran his scheme... and Josh learned by doing that. Instead of running some gimmicky Greg Roman offense or Sean McVay offense to mask the deficiencies of his QB... he let him go out and get better. You don’t get better when you’re not allowed to work on your weaknesses in a high speed setting. Working on it in a game is the best environment to do it... I promise you... I literally do this for a living. 
 

You’re putting an inordinate amount of stock into the Ravens game 3 years ago with Nathan Peterman at QB. It’s really quite strange. 
 

The facts are... 

 

Josh Allen was NEVER EVER starting week 1 his rookie year. The organization was doing everything possible to make sure it didn’t happen. It wasn’t Daboll’s decision.
 

Nathan Peterman FAR outperformed AJ McCarron in the preseason and earned the opportunity to start over McCarron... again because there was zero chance Josh was ever starting. 
 

Nathan Peterman failed miserably because he’s not good. It wasn’t his 1st NFL start like you stated... it was his 2nd... the first was the year prior with Rick Dennison and was just as bad. Peterman is just bad. 
 

He’s also NOT the backup QB in Las Vegas. He’s the 3rd string QB who spent 2019 on the PS and then was injured and spent this year behind Derek Carr and Marcus Mariota when all 3 were healthy. If it weren’t for Jon Gruden’s infatuation with him, he’d be coaching his local HS team. 
 

Stop with your weird Peterman thing as a way to say Daboll isn’t a good OC. It’s literally the single dumbest argument I’ve ever seen on this board. You can cite SO MANY other reasons that Daboll isn’t a good OC and I’ll probably agree in some fashion. Failures in CLE, MIA and KC... stubbornness, inability to run the football, ego... honestly anything is a fine argument but this just makes you looking incredibly, let me stress the word... INCREDIBLY dumb. 

[Dukestreetking]

7 hours ago, The 9 Isles said:

I didn’t read this thread at all. 

 

All I know is that Josh Allen is the man. 

I shouldn't encourage such behavior, but that was at least worth a chuckle.

[Bill from NYC]

On 2/27/2021 at 2:06 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

 He's a local guy and I hope he takes his game to yet another level this year..........but this was only the first time in 6 years as an NFL OC that he's had a good offense.

 

I don't know if this counts, but Daboll was a GREAT OC at Alabama. I do however think that Saban didn't grant him as much autonomy as he gave to Sarkisian, and I'm not sure why.

 

I was told by supposed "insiders" that Daboll was pushing to start Tua over Hurts, but Saban wouldn't allow it. If this is true (and I am NOT trying to vouch for the veracity of these claims), that means that he won a title without his choice at QB, who as we know won the championship game.

 

I agree with you that it was a very good thing for Josh to work in a complicated Daboll offense, especially taking into consideration that he came from Wyoming. It also appears that Josh really likes Daboll.

 

I for one hope that he stays in Buffalo, but I also think that he will be a fine head coach down the road. 

 

Jmo Brother.

 

 

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

8 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

I don't know if this counts, but Daboll was a GREAT OC at Alabama. I do however think that Saban didn't grant him as much autonomy as he gave to Sarkisian, and I'm not sure why.

 

I was told by supposed "insiders" that Daboll was pushing to start Tua over Hurts, but Saban wouldn't allow it. If this is true (and I am NOT trying to vouch for the veracity of these claims), that means that he won a title without his choice at QB, who as we know won the championship game.

 

I agree with you that it was a very good thing for Josh to work in a complicated Daboll offense, especially taking into consideration that he came from Wyoming. It also appears that Josh really likes Daboll.

 

I for one hope that he stays in Buffalo, but I also think that he will be a fine head coach down the road. 

 

Jmo Brother.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I thought he did a solid job at Alabama too..........but I also thought he might get fired by Saban had they lost that game.    He was chewing Daboll a new one on the sidelines early in that game,  it was quite amusing.

[Nihilarian]

5 hours ago, JGMcD2 said:

Calm down? You told me I was “making things up” even though you clearly lied about what YOU said and have yet to admit you said it. It’s okay to be wrong, especially when it’s as blatant as it is right now...
 

You’re talking about preseason performance? Nathan Peterman absolutely blew McCarron out of the water during the preseason. Here you are again being flat out wrong. Peterman started the 3rd preseason game... McCarron labored through the 4th. 
 

Week 1 vs Carolina

Peterman: 9/10 for 118 yards 1 TD and 1 INT
McCarron: 7/10 for 116 yards 0 TD and 0 INT

 

Week 2 vs Cleveland 
 

Peterman: 8/10 for 113 yards 1 TD and 0 INT

McCarron: 3/6 for 12 yards 0 TD and 0 INT

 

Week 3 vs Cincinnati 

 

Peterman: 16/21 for 200 yards 2 TD and 0 INT

McCarron: DID NOT PLAY

 

Week 4 vs Chicago

 

Peterman: DID NOT PLAY

McCarron: 13/34 for 156 yards 3 TD and 2 INT

 

TOTAL: 3 Games each

 

Peterman: 33/41 80% COMP% 431 yards 4 TD and 1 INT

 

McCarron: 23/50 46% COMP% 284 yards 3 TD and 2 INT 

 

You’re just so far out of your element. You’re so heavily entrenched in the first game Daboll had called for the Bills with Nathan Peterman that you’re not even recognizing the growth. 
 

I’m going to point something out to you about player development, it’s really a novel concept. It’s what Daboll did and whether you want to believe it worked or not fine, you’re clearly not able to comprehend how played development works... but here.

 

Josh Allen was a raw player... Josh Allen needed to experience things against good competition. Brian Daboll had some training wheels on for Josh, but it was a pretty conscious effort (it’s been talked about) to just try and expose him to everything possible so he can learn. So yes, he ran his scheme... and Josh learned by doing that. Instead of running some gimmicky Greg Roman offense or Sean McVay offense to mask the deficiencies of his QB... he let him go out and get better. You don’t get better when you’re not allowed to work on your weaknesses in a high speed setting. Working on it in a game is the best environment to do it... I promise you... I literally do this for a living. 
 

You’re putting an inordinate amount of stock into the Ravens game 3 years ago with Nathan Peterman at QB. It’s really quite strange. 
 

The facts are... 

 

Josh Allen was NEVER EVER starting week 1 his rookie year. The organization was doing everything possible to make sure it didn’t happen. It wasn’t Daboll’s decision.
 

Nathan Peterman FAR outperformed AJ McCarron in the preseason and earned the opportunity to start over McCarron... again because there was zero chance Josh was ever starting. 
 

Nathan Peterman failed miserably because he’s not good. It wasn’t his 1st NFL start like you stated... it was his 2nd... the first was the year prior with Rick Dennison and was just as bad. Peterman is just bad. 
 

He’s also NOT the backup QB in Las Vegas. He’s the 3rd string QB who spent 2019 on the PS and then was injured and spent this year behind Derek Carr and Marcus Mariota when all 3 were healthy. If it weren’t for Jon Gruden’s infatuation with him, he’d be coaching his local HS team. 
 

Stop with your weird Peterman thing as a way to say Daboll isn’t a good OC. It’s literally the single dumbest argument I’ve ever seen on this board. You can cite SO MANY other reasons that Daboll isn’t a good OC and I’ll probably agree in some fashion. Failures in CLE, MIA and KC... stubbornness, inability to run the football, ego... honestly anything is a fine argument but this just makes you looking incredibly, let me stress the word... INCREDIBLY dumb. 

It's amazing to me how someone who is so condescending can be so ignorant at the same time. 

 

I never lied about anything and you make stuff up as you go along... adding things I never said. I never once stated that Josh Allen was starting in 2018 even though you keep reiterating that point.

 

The simple fact is that Peterman failed due to the offensive scheme that Brain Daboll put him in...and when the run game failed as it has at times the past few seasons under Daboll. The entire offense to win the game goes on the QB shoulders...as it has so many times.  

 

Daboll had no answer for that Ravens pass rush in 2018, and again in 2019, and he probably had no answer in 2020, save that they decided not to blitz for some reason.

Daboll had no answer for the Chiefs and their defense/pass rush either, even though they faced them for the second time in 2020. 

 

I'm done here, as I'm no longer going to waste my time attempting to get through... 

[JGMcD2]

10 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

It's amazing to me how someone who is so condescending can be so ignorant at the same time. 

 

I never lied about anything and you make stuff up as you go along... adding things I never said. I never once stated that Josh Allen was starting in 2018 even though you keep reiterating that point.

 

The simple fact is that Peterman failed due to the offensive scheme that Brain Daboll put him in...and when the run game failed as it has at times the past few seasons under Daboll. The entire offense to win the game goes on the QB shoulders...as it has so many times.  

 

Daboll had no answer for that Ravens pass rush in 2018, and again in 2019, and he probably had no answer in 2020, save that they decided not to blitz for some reason.

Daboll had no answer for the Chiefs and their defense/pass rush either, even though they faced them for the second time in 2020. 

 

I'm done here, as I'm no longer going to waste my time attempting to get through... 

You said... “How did he (Daboll) not see the gap prior to giving him (Peterman) the start?” I literally highlighted it and pointed it out and you’ve refused to acknowledge that’s what you said. Referring to the gap between Josh Allen and Nathan Peterman. The option was either start Josh Allen or Nathan Peterman.... there was no other QB. The implication you made was that Daboll didn’t do anything to avoid having Peterman start. AJ McCarron wasn’t an option even though you cherry picked some numbers to make it look like it - convenient you glossed over that fact this time around. 
 

Nathan Peterman failed because he sucks. He looked better under Daboll than he did the year prior in his first start against the Chargers (not saying much at all) but he still sucked. It was his second start not his first, you’ve refused to acknowledge that either. He looked just as putrid a year before... but it’s Daboll’s fault? The guy just absolutely sucks... 
 

Again, continuing to harp on Nathan Peterman as a way to say Daboll isn’t a good OC is silly. It would be great if you could just acknowledge that instead of trying to continue to prop up a poor argument. I’m confident we could find common ground on Daboll elsewhere, but this literally makes zero sense? 

17 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

Most people would think that an NFL offensive coordinator would be able to distinguish that a young, inexperienced QB would be good enough to start a game in the NFL.

Apparently not in this case! 

Here you go... who was the other option to start? It was Josh Allen or Nathan Peterman... what was Brian Daboll’s decision supposed to be? 

On 2/27/2021 at 8:57 PM, Nihilarian said:

While I agree that the difference between Peterman and Allen is a grand canyon wide gap. Why didn't the OC see this previous to the team giving him the start?

Oh and this one too... who was starting over Peterman? 
 

The implication is because the talent gap is wide it should have been Allen over Peterman. The fact that there are 2 QBs on the roster at the time and it’s Peterman and Allen means that it’s Allen. 

Edited March 1, 2021 by JGMcD2

[Richard Noggin]

He must, for the first time in his OC career, effectively marry the passing and running games. His offenses have been either lopsided or ineffective for the most part.