chris heff Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 (edited) Last week a Patriot fan trolling this site wrote that Patriots don’t need much to get back to being contenders, because of great coaching staff, organization, and players returning that opted out. With up coming draft and free agency all they heed to do is find QB of the future and, or, as he put it a “bridge QB”. Not to mention some WRs and TEs. This got me thinking, how often do teams go either directly, or quickly from one great or even good QB to another? I’m sure I’m missing a few so help me out. Packers twice, don’t remember Tobin Rote, but they went from him to Bart Starr. Then the obvious, Favre to Rogers. Raiders went from Lamonica to Stabler and then fairly quickly to Plunkett. Niners (another obvious one), Montana to Young. Patriots, Bledsoe to Brady. Colts Payton Manning to Andrew Luck. That’s all I can think of and that’s not many and that covers about 70 years. Doesn’t appear to be easy. Forgot this one a bit marginal, but Cowboys went fro Meredith to Morton to Staubach. Edited December 13, 2020 by chris heff Forgot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 Bledsoe wasn’t all that much in NE. Lots of noise and resume potential but not much to show for it all really. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 (edited) You're quite right, it ain't easy, and even "successful" transitions rely on luck. Packers did go from Rote to Starr... but then had schlubs like Horn, Tagge, Hadl (near the end of his trail), Dickey, and Majkowski before hitting with Favre, whom the Falcons had dumped for a box of tape. Raiders had a long transition (1970-1973) where Lamonica couldn't stay healthy and Stabler couldn't grab the starting job for good until halfway through 1973; then as he faded by 1979 they traded for Dan Pastorini (signing Plunkett was an afterthought)--dumb luck and Pastorini's injury opened the door to Plunkett. Since then, Raider QB choices have been mixed. Niners were lucky to have Young on the squad, though there were four years of controversy before Montana left for good. Colts of course had to suck to get Luck. One bad year at the right time helps. The Pats just got very lucky, despite themselves--they had just signed Bledsoe to a monster deal. The org deserves credit for sticking with Brady early once his talents were clear. Edited December 13, 2020 by RJ (not THAT RJ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 5 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: Bledsoe wasn’t all that much in NE. Lots of noise and resume potential but not much to show for it all really. He was a borderline HOF QB. He made it so a SuperBowl. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulldog Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 9 minutes ago, chris heff said: Last week a Patriot fan trolling this site wrote that Patriots don’t need much to get back to being contenders, because of great coaching staff, organization, and players returning that opted out. With up coming draft and free agency all they heed to do is find QB of the future and, or, as he put it a “bridge QB”. Not to mention some WRs and TEs. This got me thinking, how often do teams go either directly, or quickly from one great or even good QB to another? I’m sure I’m missing a few so help me out. Packers twice, don’t remember Tobin Rote, but they went from him to Bart Starr. Then the obvious, Favre to Rogers. Raiders went from Lamonica to Stabler and then fairly quickly to Plunkett. Niners (another obvious one), Montana to Young. Patriots, Bledsoe to Brady. Colts Payton Manning to Andrew Luck. That’s all I can think of and that’s not many and that covers about 70 years. Doesn’t appear to be easy. Good luck to those lovely Patriots* fans - I hope they do wind up with a "bridge" QB. It is much more common for a franchise to languish from one "bridge" QB to the next, from year to year, in a seemingly endless search for the next elusive franchise guy - rather than to have back to back franchise guys. Here's hoping that the current situation in New England is just the tip of the iceberg of a long & tortuous purgatory of searching for the elusive next "TB 12"! 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillies Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 Not hard at all. Remember in just 1 season we went from EJ Manuel to Thad Lewis to Jeff Tuel. 1 1 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris heff Posted December 13, 2020 Author Share Posted December 13, 2020 14 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: Bledsoe wasn’t all that much in NE. Lots of noise and resume potential but not much to show for it all really. I agree, I was being nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 The Cheaters' biggest problem is that Belicheat isn't going to be around for long. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 You are setting the bar very high. Pretty much going from HOF to HOF player. If you lower expectations just a bit there have been teams that have transitioned from one capable QB to another... Seattle - Hasselbeck to Wilson Dallas- Meredith to Morton(took Dallas to a SB) to Staubach, Romo to Dak, Staubach to White Cinci - Anderson to Esiason Atlanta - Chandler to Vick to Ryan Vikings - Tarkenton to Kramer Chiefs - Smith to Mahomes, Montana to Bono to Grbac to Green that is 13 years of decent QB play with a lot of playoff runs 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris heff Posted December 13, 2020 Author Share Posted December 13, 2020 7 minutes ago, Bulldog said: Good luck to those lovely Patriots* fans - I hope they do wind up with a "bridge" QB. It is much more common for a franchise to languish from one "bridge" QB to the next, from year to year, in a seemingly endless search for the next elusive franchise guy - rather than to have back to back franchise guys. Here's hoping that the current situation in New England is just the tip of the iceberg of a long & tortuous purgatory of searching for the elusive next "TB 12"! Firstly, my God you are handsome! Isn’t Cam “bridge QB” number one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulldog Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, chris heff said: Firstly, my God you are handsome! Isn’t Cam “bridge QB” number one? Yes - hopefully Cam is the first in a decades long string of bridge guys for the Pats*. Also -we both clearly have very good genes in our respective family trees! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris heff Posted December 13, 2020 Author Share Posted December 13, 2020 1 minute ago, Ethan in Portland said: You are setting the bar very high. Pretty much going from HOF to HOF player. If you lower expectations just a bit there have been teams that have transitioned from one capable QB to another... Seattle - Hasselbeck to Wilson Dallas- Meredith to Morton(took Dallas to a SB) to Staubach, Romo to Dak, Staubach to White Cinci - Anderson to Esiason Atlanta - Chandler to Vick to Ryan Vikings - Tarkenton to Kramer Chiefs - Smith to Mahomes, Montana to Bono to Grbac to Green that is 13 years of decent QB play with a lot of playoff runs Seattle okay Dallas I went back and added Cinci, yup Altanta maybe? Vikings maybe? Chiefs, no there is a bunch of okay guys there. If you go down that road you have to start adding Colts, Unitas to Domres, to Jones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanSD Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 Finding a QB who can get you into playoff contention isn't that hard if all the other pieces are in place, especially with seven playoff spots available. This year's Colts team is a good example. They had a pretty good roster already, plugged in an aging veteran who figures to give them maybe two years of production, and here they are. Finding a QB who elevates your team into a legit super bowl contender is a lot harder. It took us two decades and change. Some teams luck and out get to draft a top prospect -- again, Indianapolis is a good example. But that's tough to do without bottoming out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 55 minutes ago, chris heff said: Last week a Patriot fan trolling this site wrote that Patriots don’t need much to get back to being contenders, because of great coaching staff, organization, and players returning that opted out. With up coming draft and free agency all they heed to do is find QB of the future and, or, as he put it a “bridge QB”. Not to mention some WRs and TEs. This got me thinking, how often do teams go either directly, or quickly from one great or even good QB to another? I’m sure I’m missing a few so help me out. Packers twice, don’t remember Tobin Rote, but they went from him to Bart Starr. Then the obvious, Favre to Rogers. Raiders went from Lamonica to Stabler and then fairly quickly to Plunkett. Niners (another obvious one), Montana to Young. Patriots, Bledsoe to Brady. Colts Payton Manning to Andrew Luck. That’s all I can think of and that’s not many and that covers about 70 years. Doesn’t appear to be easy. Forgot this one a bit marginal, but Cowboys went fro Meredith to Morton to Staubach. Cowboys also went from Romo the Prescott. I think it's also worth noting that Rodgers spent three years holding Favre's clipboard. A lot of pundits thought that was what Josh Allen should have done, but we didn't have anyone for Allen to play behind. (I don't think Nathan Peterman actually owns a clipboard.) Funny that a Pats* fan wouldn't consider Cam Newton a "bridge" QB. If he isn't that, then what the hell is he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris heff Posted December 13, 2020 Author Share Posted December 13, 2020 6 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said: Cowboys also went from Romo the Prescott. I think it's also worth noting that Rodgers spent three years holding Favre's clipboard. A lot of pundits thought that was what Josh Allen should have done, but we didn't have anyone for Allen to play behind. (I don't think Nathan Peterman actually owns a clipboard.) Funny that a Pats* fan wouldn't consider Cam Newton a "bridge" QB. If he isn't that, then what the hell is he? If we add Romo to Prescott and all of Ethan’s we have only come up with 13 or 14 times in about 70 years where there has been good QB succession. That is not a lot considering the number of franchises. The Patriots fan didn’t consider Cam to be a “bridge” because even he had come to realization that Cam is done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris heff Posted December 13, 2020 Author Share Posted December 13, 2020 18 minutes ago, BillsFanSD said: Finding a QB who can get you into playoff contention isn't that hard if all the other pieces are in place, especially with seven playoff spots available. This year's Colts team is a good example. They had a pretty good roster already, plugged in an aging veteran who figures to give them maybe two years of production, and here they are. Finding a QB who elevates your team into a legit super bowl contender is a lot harder. It took us two decades and change. Some teams luck and out get to draft a top prospect -- again, Indianapolis is a good example. But that's tough to do without bottoming out. That’s true but do you think the Patriots have all the other pieces? The troll seemed to think either the did or one draft and one free agency could solve everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 1 hour ago, chris heff said: Last week a Patriot fan trolling this site wrote that Patriots don’t need much to get back to being contenders, because of great coaching staff, organization, and players returning that opted out. With up coming draft and free agency all they heed to do is find QB of the future and, or, as he put it a “bridge QB”. Not to mention some WRs and TEs. This got me thinking, how often do teams go either directly, or quickly from one great or even good QB to another? I’m sure I’m missing a few so help me out. Packers twice, don’t remember Tobin Rote, but they went from him to Bart Starr. Then the obvious, Favre to Rogers. Raiders went from Lamonica to Stabler and then fairly quickly to Plunkett. Niners (another obvious one), Montana to Young. Patriots, Bledsoe to Brady. Colts Payton Manning to Andrew Luck. That’s all I can think of and that’s not many and that covers about 70 years. Doesn’t appear to be easy. Forgot this one a bit marginal, but Cowboys went fro Meredith to Morton to Staubach. Kelly to Collins 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Ethan in Portland said: He was a borderline HOF QB. He made it so a SuperBowl. Borderline HOF? No way, Bledsoe did have a couple good/above average years, no doubt, but those were a minority during his career, he was mostly a bit above average to average the majority of the time. His failing was he couldn’t move worth a darn athletically speaking while in the pocket, let alone having to evade an active pursuit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris heff Posted December 13, 2020 Author Share Posted December 13, 2020 16 minutes ago, Don Otreply said: Borderline HOF? No way, Bledsoe did have a couple good/above average years, no doubt, but those were a minority during his career, he was mostly a bit above average to average the majority of the time. His failing was he couldn’t move worth a darn athletically speaking while in the pocket, let alone having to evade an active pursuit. Nice day down here isn’t it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, chris heff said: Nice day down here isn’t it? I’m at little harbor in the Abacos, were are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris heff Posted December 13, 2020 Author Share Posted December 13, 2020 7 minutes ago, Don Otreply said: I’m at little harbor in the Abacos, were are you? About 180 miles west Delray Beach FL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, chris heff said: About 180 miles west Delray Beach FL 😁👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDingus Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 In some recent years, we've had some pretty successful transitions too. Chargers went from Brees to Rivers, that's not bad. Cowboys went from Romo to Prescott. Chiefs went from Smith to Mahomes. Ravens went from Flacco to Jackson. I know those aren't all legends, but they went from playoff/SB QB's to other playoff/SB QB's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 Some years there are no good QBs at all in an entire draft.. Look at the 2013 draft.. Even the #1 overall pick can’t get you a franchise QB sometimes.. Even if there’s two or three nice prospects, usually all of them are gone within the first five picks.. Meaning, if you’re a team like New England, we’re talking 2-3 1st round picks minimum to go up for one.. Some guys do fall through the cracks though, it happens but not often.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris heff Posted December 13, 2020 Author Share Posted December 13, 2020 6 minutes ago, BigDingus said: In some recent years, we've had some pretty successful transitions too. Chargers went from Brees to Rivers, that's not bad. Cowboys went from Romo to Prescott. Chiefs went from Smith to Mahomes. Ravens went from Flacco to Jackson. I know those aren't all legends, but they went from playoff/SB QB's to other playoff/SB QB's. What I was getting at, was transitioning from a QB that has had a long history of success with a franchise, to a new good to great QB. The Pats troll was making the case that replacing Brady and being competitive in playoffs was going to be no big deal because the team and coach are so good. Chargers had given up on Brees. Cowboys verdict is still out, they moved on from Romo, but even before injury they seemed reluctant to pay Prescott. Chiefs traded up for Mahomes, they didn’t view Smith as long term option. Ravens is a yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris heff Posted December 13, 2020 Author Share Posted December 13, 2020 7 minutes ago, Victory Formation said: Some years there are no good QBs at all in an entire draft.. Look at the 2013 draft.. Even the #1 overall pick can’t get you a franchise QB sometimes.. Even if there’s two or three nice prospects, usually all of them are gone within the first five picks.. Meaning, if you’re a team like New England, we’re talking 2-3 1st round picks minimum to go up for one.. Some guys do fall through the cracks though, it happens but not often.. My point exactly, any season there is not 32 guys on the planet that can be good let alone great franchise QBs in the NFL. It is hard to fill that position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDingus Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 1 minute ago, chris heff said: What I was getting at, was transitioning from a QB that has had a long history of success with a franchise, to a new good to great QB. The Pats troll was making the case that replacing Brady and being competitive in playoffs was going to be no big deal because the team and coach are so good. Chargers had given up on Brees. Cowboys verdict is still out, they moved on from Romo, but even before injury they seemed reluctant to pay Prescott. Chiefs traded up for Mahomes, they didn’t view Smith as long term option. Ravens is a yes. I mean I 100% agree with you, but the reasoning for the transitions don't matter. Teams giving up or moving on from players can be said for all the QB's listed in the original post (Plunket wasn't viewed as a franchise QB either, the Niners were ready to push Montana out the door near the end, Belichick had no interest in Bledsoe after seeing what Brady could do etc). And I don't think Dak is #1 QB in the league-type of player, but if the verdict is still out on him, then the verdict is still out on Allen... Dak is about to become the highest paid QB in the league for a reason, as he's shown plenty enough to be a franchise guy. 42-27 W/L record, averaging nearly 4,000 yards a season, 106 TD's to 40 INT's, 66% completions, 97.3 passer rating. Definitely not the best in the world, but a great followup to Romo? Certainly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris heff Posted December 13, 2020 Author Share Posted December 13, 2020 22 minutes ago, BigDingus said: I mean I 100% agree with you, but the reasoning for the transitions don't matter. Teams giving up or moving on from players can be said for all the QB's listed in the original post (Plunket wasn't viewed as a franchise QB either, the Niners were ready to push Montana out the door near the end, Belichick had no interest in Bledsoe after seeing what Brady could do etc). And I don't think Dak is #1 QB in the league-type of player, but if the verdict is still out on him, then the verdict is still out on Allen... Dak is about to become the highest paid QB in the league for a reason, as he's shown plenty enough to be a franchise guy. 42-27 W/L record, averaging nearly 4,000 yards a season, 106 TD's to 40 INT's, 66% completions, 97.3 passer rating. Definitely not the best in the world, but a great followup to Romo? Certainly. That is true, I guess my point was it is hard to transition from one good QB to another. There is some luck involved, one has to come available in free agency, or available in the draft. Here’s another exercise. Go through every franchise and come up with great and good QBs. The Bills, Kelly great, Kemp and Ferguson were good. I think Josh will be great, but I’m a well known homer. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 (edited) Before my time, did the Bills go from Kemp to Ferguson? Or was there someone in between? May have been they were sou lousy in between, don't recall anyone else?? LOL! Edited December 13, 2020 by Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said: Before my time, did the Bills go from Kemp to Ferguson? Or was there someone in between? May have been they were sou lousy in between, don't recall anyone else?? LOL! Kemp retired in 1969, Fergy was drafted in 1973. The sad part is we had the QB in wings in Lamonica but traded him away to the Raiders. PS I was born in 1977 but still know my Bills history. Edited December 13, 2020 by The Jokeman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 4 hours ago, chris heff said: Seattle okay Dallas I went back and added Cinci, yup Altanta maybe? Vikings maybe? Chiefs, no there is a bunch of okay guys there. If you go down that road you have to start adding Colts, Unitas to Domres, to Jones. yeah I agree. Can't plop Steve Bono in that list and hope no one notices 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 I think the core of the question is which teams lost a Super Bowl winning QB and immediately replaced him with another Super Bowl winning QB? I can think of SF with Montana to Young, but that's it. So no, it's not that easy, IMO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybo71 Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 3 hours ago, BigDingus said: In some recent years, we've had some pretty successful transitions too. Chargers went from Brees to Rivers, that's not bad. Cowboys went from Romo to Prescott. Chiefs went from Smith to Mahomes. Ravens went from Flacco to Jackson. I know those aren't all legends, but they went from playoff/SB QB's to other playoff/SB QB's. Chargers also look like they found the replacement for Rivers with Herbert. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 1 hour ago, The Jokeman said: Kemp retired in 1969, Fergy was drafted in 1973. The sad part is we had the QB in wings in Lamonica but traded him away to the Raiders. PS I was born in 1977 but still know my Bills history. Actually I graduated HS in 1973, but didn't live in the area and didn't follow them. I can recall OJ highlights and seeing a few of their games. Recall watching a late season Saturday game on TV with Ahmad Rashad playing in. Started following the Bills in 80's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 6 hours ago, Doc said: The Cheaters' biggest problem is that Belicheat isn't going to be around for long. No he will cheat death and old age. He is the GOAT cheater. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 Favre to Rodgers....that is almost 20 years of great QB play especially during our 'suck' period. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris heff Posted December 14, 2020 Author Share Posted December 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Jaybo71 said: Chargers also look like they found the replacement for Rivers with Herbert. Jury still out, but okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 5 hours ago, chris heff said: If we add Romo to Prescott and all of Ethan’s we have only come up with 13 or 14 times in about 70 years where there has been good QB succession. That is not a lot considering the number of franchises. The Patriots fan didn’t consider Cam to be a “bridge” because even he had come to realization that Cam is done. Oh, Cam is a bridge all right: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris heff Posted December 14, 2020 Author Share Posted December 14, 2020 1 hour ago, The Jokeman said: Kemp retired in 1969, Fergy was drafted in 1973. The sad part is we had the QB in wings in Lamonica but traded him away to the Raiders. PS I was born in 1977 but still know my Bills history. That trade still pisses me off and was 14 when it happened. 36 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said: Actually I graduated HS in 1973, but didn't live in the area and didn't follow them. I can recall OJ highlights and seeing a few of their games. Recall watching a late season Saturday game on TV with Ahmad Rashad playing in. Started following the Bills in 80's. Ferguson was a good QB and a tough SOB. Played a playoff game against Chargers with a broken ankle. 1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said: yeah I agree. Can't plop Steve Bono in that list and hope no one notices Or Elvis 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 6 minutes ago, chris heff said: Ferguson was a good QB and a tough SOB. Played a playoff game against Chargers with a broken ankle. I do remember that game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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