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Artem Lipatov

Is this season an answer - Who is greater Bellichick or Brady?

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Earlier it was hard to understand: Who was the bigger contributor for 2 decades of dominance of Pats dynasty? Now BB and Brady are divorced - and Brady (42 years old) carries Tampa to 1st divisional title for many years while Pats are 2-4. Also  we can remember the season when Brady was injuried and Pats couldn't clinch playooffs although had 10-6 season with Matt Cassel.   Can we now say that Tom Brady was the main factor of Pats success not Bellichik?

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Why does one have to be greater than they other? Why can’t they both be two of the best ever who had an amazing run together? 

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I truly despise both of them, and it makes me sick to defend BB, like really I feel gross typing this, but I have to say we won't know until next year. The Bucs roster top to bottom is leaps and bounds better then NE. Any one of the receivers on the Bucs would be an instant one on the Pats and they had a ton of players opt-out of the season. Now, if they suck next year too and I really hope they do, then we will have the answer, but I give this year as an incomplete for BB.

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They're both terrific, but the difference in effect between an elite QB and a good one is a lot larger than the difference between an elite coach and a good one.

 

Neither one's as good without the other. But Belichick has a bigger handicap this year. The Pats roster is quite a bit worse than the Bucs.

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15 minutes ago, Artem Lipatov said:

Earlier it was hard to understand: Who was the bigger contributor for 2 decades of dominance of Pats dynasty? Now BB and Brady are divorced - and Brady (42 years old) carries Tampa to 1st divisional title for many years while Pats are 2-4. Also  we can remember the season when Brady was injuried and Pats couldn't clinch playooffs although had 10-6 season with Matt Cassel.   Can we now say that Tom Brady was the main factor of Pats success not Bellichik?

They were 11-5 under Cassel

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17 minutes ago, Artem Lipatov said:

Earlier it was hard to understand: Who was the bigger contributor for 2 decades of dominance of Pats dynasty? Now BB and Brady are divorced - and Brady (42 years old) carries Tampa to 1st divisional title for many years while Pats are 2-4. Also  we can remember the season when Brady was injuried and Pats couldn't clinch playooffs although had 10-6 season with Matt Cassel.   Can we now say that Tom Brady was the main factor of Pats success not Bellichik?

If Brady was still in New England do you think they would have the same record of 2-5 ? 
 

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4 minutes ago, Putin said:

If Brady was still in New England do you think they would have the same record of 2-5 ? 

No way

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The Patriots aren't in the sh*ttr because of Brady as much as the collapse of their defense.

 

Their defense was ranked #1 last year.  They're currently #17.

 

Their offense was #15 last year - pretty mediocre even with Brady under center.  This year they're somewhat worse: #24.

 

Their D fell 16 slots while their O fell only 9.  

 

The Pats didn't just lose Brady.  They lost some FAs and led the league in COVID opt outs.  

 

Arguing whether Brady or Belichick is "The Answer" is kind of like arguing which came first, the chicken or the egg.  You can make valid arguments for both sides. 

 

I personally think it's a little bit of both. Belichick and Brady each contributed to the other's success.  

 

Edited by hondo in seattle
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9 minutes ago, Putin said:

If Brady was still in New England do you think they would have the same record of 2-5 ? 
 

 

With the roster the Pats have? Maybe one more win. 

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24 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

Why does one have to be greater than they other? Why can’t they both be two of the best ever who had an amazing run together? 

 

This has always been a theme with Brady.  I was one who also was firmly in the 'put him on the Lions and see what happens' boat.  

 

People claiming he is by far the best ever.  I was/am on the side of Payton Manning.  Strongly believe that Brady was much more a product of the Belichick/Patriots/Gillette Stadium environment than the other way around.  It is an argument thrown about many a barstool for 20 years.

 

This year we are getting some clarity.  While the Buccaneers are really loaded (and are still loading) with weapons.... Brady is like 49 and doesnt have unlimited access to the cheating systems.  I thought we would see Tampa fizzle, while the Patriots' smoke and mirrors show continues under some clown under C.  

 

 

Covid drop-outs hurt the Patriots a bit... but Belichick's drafting has caught up to them.  

Edited by May Day 10
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They are the best at what they do, in the game- PERIOD! 
 

Cheats that took every advantage and manipulated every rule to their advantage? Sure, but that doesn’t undermine their uber success, leadership, dominance, competencies and abilities! 
 

There are numerous NFL films on Bellicheat. However, I would suggest seeing the recent one I saw on the 1995 Cleveland Browns, with numerous examinations of Billy by the management team he led, who later moved far and wide to leadership positions in other NFL orgs- post the hated Modell knife in the back. The great Michael Lombardi along with Ozzie Newsome, etc. have pointed comments and Clowns’ fans and owners, believe- quite rightly, that the Ravens SB was stolen from them!


Think about his acolyte Ozzie... puuuulease McBeanie Boy! Ozzie should go to Canton... again... for the management lessons he learned under BB! His FIRST DRAFT for the Ravens included: Ray Lewis (HOF), Jonathan Ogden (HOF), WR Jermaine Lewis (fifth round, 1996): “The best returner in franchise history was selected in the team's remarkable first draft.“


And Brady? NO discussion other than GOAT. Simply, the greatest pair ever, above even Michael & Phil!

 

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25 minutes ago, Chris from Rochester said:

I truly despise both of them, and it makes me sick to defend BB, like really I feel gross typing this, but I have to say we won't know until next year. The Bucs roster top to bottom is leaps and bounds better then NE. Any one of the receivers on the Bucs would be an instant one on the Pats and they had a ton of players opt-out of the season. Now, if they suck next year too and I really hope they do, then we will have the answer, but I give this year as an incomplete for BB.


 

Yeah, his GM sucks....

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I’m not sure the question can be answered at this very moment. Brady has an almost super team in Tampa, but the seasons early still. Even if Brady gets to a super bowl there it’s a little sketchy given the roster. 
New England has one of the worst rosters in the league right now, and are missing some pretty valuable players on defense. 

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29 minutes ago, klos63 said:

They were 11-5 under Cassel

With a team that went 16-0 the previous year. Cassel receivers were Randy Moss, Wes Welker and Jabar Gaffney

 

This pats* team is bad. NKeal Harry, Demaire Byrd and Edelman? Edelman is suddenly not a great player with scattershot accuracy throwing to him. Harry is a bust. Byrd has 62 career catches in 5 years

 

Newton looks shot. Belicheck is a great coach, but poor drafting and a bad roster has finally caught up them 

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Brady & the Bucs are going to have a far better record than the Pats. But I dont think those results mean Brady >> Belichick. Brady selected into a good situation  - a decent coach, great receivers, brought in Gronk and is backed by a fantastic defense. Pats had a bunch of opt-outs on defense, acute salary cap issues for this season and didnt get even an average level replacement QB.

 

My Pats friend (yes I have one or two - sorry) prefers they never signed Cam and won no games (instead  of their 2 now)  - just would have liked em to  roll with Stidham and join the Jets in the Lawrence / Fields sweepstakes.

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1 minute ago, IgotBILLStopay said:

Brady & the Bucs are going to have a far better record than the Pats. But I dont think those results mean Brady >> Belichick. Brady selected into a good situation  - a decent coach, great receivers, brought in Gronk and is backed by a fantastic defense. Pats had a bunch of opt-outs on defense, acute salary cap issues for this season and didnt get even an average level replacement QB.

 

My Pats friend (yes I have one or two - sorry) prefers they never signed Cam and won no games (instead  of their 2 now)  - just would have liked em to  roll with Stidham and join the Jets in the Lawrence / Fields sweepstakes.

 

 

Yeah Brady is easily on one of the top 5 rosters in the NFL.   He is set up to succeed.   

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It’s clear at this time that Brady is more than a system QB.. And it’s obvious that Belichick can’t magically turn Newton or Stidham into a good QB.. Think Belichick needs a chance to draft his own replacement QB before we can determine who is responsible for New England’s success.. Did Belichick develop Brady into what he is and he simply needs a more talented QB to groom? I don’t know. Regardless, I highly doubt that their next QB is even remotely as good as Brady was..

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1 hour ago, Artem Lipatov said:

Earlier it was hard to understand: Who was the bigger contributor for 2 decades of dominance of Pats dynasty? Now BB and Brady are divorced - and Brady (42 years old) carries Tampa to 1st divisional title for many years while Pats are 2-4. Also  we can remember the season when Brady was injuried and Pats couldn't clinch playooffs although had 10-6 season with Matt Cassel.   Can we now say that Tom Brady was the main factor of Pats success not Bellichik?

Not really.  Brady went to a stacked team with a decent D.  The Pats of course would need rebuild after losing the GOAT, then add in like 6 starters opting out for this year (4 starters on D) and we have no idea how good or bad NE would be in a regular year or god knows a consistent QB. 
 

jury is out till we have one “normal” year.. I hope Brady wins #7 I have no hard feelings I knew his departure was coming. 

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1 hour ago, Putin said:

If Brady was still in New England do you think they would have the same record of 2-5 ? 
 

If Belichick has Tampa’s current roster, do you think that he’d be 2-5?

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