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Ranking Offensive Weapons by team


SCBills

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So we now like Barnwell??? ?

 

and there are zero excuses for Allen.  His 3rd year in the same system with the same OC and head coach.  A solid o line.  A defense that carries the team.  
 

if this offense isn’t top half of the league (not a high bar), we don’t have the right guy.  

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7 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

So we now like Barnwell??? ?

 

and there are zero excuses for Allen.  His 3rd year in the same system with the same OC and head coach.  A solid o line.  A defense that carries the team.  
 

if this offense isn’t top half of the league (not a high bar), we don’t have the right guy.  


Agreed.  I like Allen and think we will see that.  
 

Also interesting is how low our divisional rivals were ranked.  All in the 20’s.    
 

When you factor in that the Bills/Pats have better OL’s than the Jets/Dolphins, that expectation for Allen becomes even more expectant, especially within the division. 
 

Edited by SCBills
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11 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

So we now like Barnwell??? ?

 

and there are zero excuses for Allen.  His 3rd year in the same system with the same OC and head coach.  A solid o line.  A defense that carries the team.  
 

if this offense isn’t top half of the league (not a high bar), we don’t have the right guy.  

 

Definitely put up or shut up time for Allen. Same goes for Darnold and Mayfield as well.

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1 minute ago, SCBills said:


Agreed.  I like Allen and think we will see that.  
 

Also interesting is how low our divisional rivals were ranked.  All in the 20’s.    
 

When you factor in that the Bills/Pats have better OL’s than the Jets/Dolphins, that expectation for Allen becomes even more expectant, especially within the division. 
 

Honestly, and they were terrible with Allen his first year, but the Bills have done a great job of developing Allen.  For the first time in forever, the Bills developed a qb right (Losman was also put in a good situation, he just sucked).  
 

I also think we should be happy with how much the Jets suck around Darnold.  They have totally done him a disservice.

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9 minutes ago, Greg S said:

 

Definitely put up or shut up time for Allen. Same goes for Darnold and Mayfield as well.


That’s why it’s so important to build a competent offense around your young QB.  
 

Baker was justifiably criticized for being underwhelming with a superstar offensive roster last year.  He has no excuses this year.   

 

Allen now has those expectations as well.  His first two years, yes - including last year, the excuses were justified (IMO).  Our weapons last year were meh, not bad, but very meh and all in their first year together, along with a brand new OL.   Continuity, the drafting of Moss and addition of Diggs drastically changes that.  
 

For Darnold, I already see their fans baking in excuses, and justifiably so... OL in their first year together and still without anyone as good as some of the Pats OL or Dawkins/Morse along with some seriously questionable weapons.. Bell, Gore, Perine, Herndon, Crowder, Mims and Perriman... I’d be making 3rd year excuses for Allen if we surrounded him with that as well.  
 

...:but by the end of the 3rd year, you need to know. 
 

 

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8 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

8 feels about right but 7 for the Giants feels asinine to me. That one jumped out at me (and I’m a big Saquon fan).

I think they are really good.  Top 5 TE, Top 3 at worst ever, very solid Tate, Sheppard is good, and Slayton was awesome as a rookie.  Their biggest issues are they can’t stay healthy. 

8 minutes ago, Greg S said:

 

Definitely put up or shut up time for Allen. Same goes for Darnold and Mayfield as well.

For sure, though Darnold is in the worst situation of the 3 by far. 
 

he’s a guy I see not living up to his draft status and then goes to another team and has a nice career.  The Jets are a stupid franchise. 

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This seems ok.  i suppose that it is looking at skill positions other than QB.  The scope is for 2020 only, weighted toward WRs and front line talent (rather than backup depth.)  He says that every player considered is not necessarily mentioned and he does not mention Moss.  Also, he does not mention one very important weapon for the Bills and that is Josh Allen as a runner.  Most teams do not have a QB run call as a weaponized option and I think it should be considered.  Even so, I think 8 is fair.

 

I understand the "no excuses" mantra but I would like to see what it looks like on the field before stating something like that.  I am not one to blame Daboll much as he has dealt with limitations well and has tried to take the offense forward while doing enough to win.  That's a tough balancing act.  Time to take the training wheels off.

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30 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I think they are really good.  Top 5 TE, Top 3 at worst ever, very solid Tate, Sheppard is good, and Slayton was awesome as a rookie.  Their biggest issues are they can’t stay healthy. 

For sure, though Darnold is in the worst situation of the 3 by far. 
 

he’s a guy I see not living up to his draft status and then goes to another team and has a nice career.  The Jets are a stupid franchise. 

Counter: Engram has started 25 games in 3 years. He can’t stay healthy. Tate and Sheppard started 10 a piece and Slayton put up decent numbers because he was the only guy in the lineup worth $.10. The Cardinals, Lions and Chargers all belong ahead of them imo. They all clearly have a better top to the receiving depth chart (which is most important according to Barnwell). Their #2 WR is better in (or at least equal) in all cases. They have good backs (not as good as Saquon) but good. The Giants don’t belong in the top half of the league IMO.

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I would have placed us higher than the Giants and Panthers, so I think 6th would have been right.  Barnwell didn’t even point out Moss’s impact.  The all time rushing leader for Utah. 4755 all purpose yards.  4067 rushing alone.  Everyone will know his name after this year. 4 prime time games, +2 4pm games which usually ends up being a national game.  People will know why there is a buzz on Buffalo by year end.

 

Ive heard the Allen needs to show it this year, but didn’t he only start two years at Wyoming?  If so, that is he is going to a top position into his 5th year.  Compare that to a Peyton Manning who played ina top program all 4 years, went to a crappy team and won 3 games year 1, then changed football.

 

Allen is no Manning, but an example he is growing and will show more improvement this year.

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1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

So we now like Barnwell??? ?

 

and there are zero excuses for Allen.  His 3rd year in the same system with the same OC and head coach.  A solid o line.  A defense that carries the team.  
 

if this offense isn’t top half of the league (not a high bar), we don’t have the right guy.  

Barnwell is a POS. He also blocks people on Twitter who disagree with him like me.

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4 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

I would have placed us higher than the Giants and Panthers, so I think 6th would have been right.  Barnwell didn’t even point out Moss’s impact.  The all time rushing leader for Utah. 4755 all purpose yards.  4067 rushing alone.  Everyone will know his name after this year. 4 prime time games, +2 4pm games which usually ends up being a national game.  People will know why there is a buzz on Buffalo by year end.

 

Ive heard the Allen needs to show it this year, but didn’t he only start two years at Wyoming?  If so, that is he is going to a top position into his 5th year.  Compare that to a Peyton Manning who played ina top program all 4 years, went to a crappy team and won 3 games year 1, then changed football.

 

Allen is no Manning, but an example he is growing and will show more improvement this year.

I really like Moss but it’s kinda hard to bank on that much from a 4th round rb before he’s taken a nfl snap. 
 

And Kyler Murray played one year in college.  And Manning went to the worst team in the nfl.  The Bills averaged 8 wins/ season in the 3 years before Allen.  In today’s nfl, it is easier than ever to be a qb.  You can see it much earlier.  Allen has some done some good things but he needs to win more with his arm to be a legit franchise guy. 

14 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Counter: Engram has started 25 games in 3 years. He can’t stay healthy. Tate and Sheppard started 10 a piece and Slayton put up decent numbers because he was the only guy in the lineup worth $.10. The Cardinals, Lions and Chargers all belong ahead of them imo. They all clearly have a better top to the receiving depth chart (which is most important according to Barnwell). Their #2 WR is better in (or at least equal) in all cases. They have good backs (not as good as Saquon) but good. The Giants don’t belong in the top half of the league IMO.

Agreed with the health thing.  They are super talented though.  

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1 hour ago, SCBills said:


Agreed.  I like Allen and think we will see that.  
 

Also interesting is how low our divisional rivals were ranked.  All in the 20’s.    
 

When you factor in that the Bills/Pats have better OL’s than the Jets/Dolphins, that expectation for Allen becomes even more expectant, especially within the division. 
 

Just saw a video saying that Cam now has better weapons in New England than he ever had in Carolina.  He must think Cam is the GOAT if he had an MVP season with a supposedly bottom tier receiving corps.

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Outside of the head coach and much less QB, everyone in the NFL is the same. Penalties and mistakes mean more than speed and size. Everyone is talented in the pros. These articles hype up players so the refs give calls and push star power. For QB, it's just about making the throws. The league will likely suspend everyone, but the team that best uses attrition, churning their bench to take out the stars of the other team, wins. They won't do it because losing with Mahomes and Brady going Hollywood makes more money than winning.

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57 minutes ago, beavis said:

Outside of the head coach and much less QB, everyone in the NFL is the same. Penalties and mistakes mean more than speed and size. Everyone is talented in the pros. These articles hype up players so the refs give calls and push star power. For QB, it's just about making the throws. The league will likely suspend everyone, but the team that best uses attrition, churning their bench to take out the stars of the other team, wins. They won't do it because losing with Mahomes and Brady going Hollywood makes more money than winning.


Players should be hyped up - they make a difference.  
 

Look no further than our Playoff game against the Texans.  
 

No Fuller, but still, Hopkins made plays in the second half.  
 

Our WR’s - Brown failed to toe-tap on the sideline for what could’ve been a pseudo-game winning catch.   Duke Williams dropped a TD before half.  
 

That game, more than any other, highlighted the need to get Allen a “Diggs”.   Watching our skill players vs all the other skill players in the playoffs was eye opening. 

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18 minutes ago, SCBills said:


Players should be hyped up - they make a difference.  
 

Look no further than our Playoff game against the Texans.  
 

No Fuller, but still, Hopkins made plays in the second half.  
 

Our WR’s - Brown failed to toe-tap on the sideline for what could’ve been a pseudo-game winning catch.   Duke Williams dropped a TD before half.  
 

That game, more than any other, highlighted the need to get Allen a “Diggs”.   Watching our skill players vs all the other skill players in the playoffs was eye opening. 

Very fair points.  I guess the counter is some truly great QBs elevate their skill players.  Besides Moss, Brady has made average to bellow average guys look much better than they are.  Same with Rodgers. Russell Wilson has never played with a 1st round/ star receiver.  
 

but I think this is Allen’s Trent Edwards moment.  The Bills had Evans and crazy TO and he couldn’t get it done.  This should be a top 15 offense if we have good qb play. 

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5 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Very fair points.  I guess the counter is some truly great QBs elevate their skill players.  Besides Moss, Brady has made average to bellow average guys look much better than they are.  Same with Rodgers. Russell Wilson has never played with a 1st round/ star receiver.  
 

but I think this is Allen’s Trent Edwards moment.  The Bills had Evans and crazy TO and he couldn’t get it done.  This should be a top 15 offense if we have good qb play. 

 

Brady, Rodgers and definitely Wilson didn't do that in their first 2 years.  What all three of them had in common was they were surrounded by excellent offensive coaching in their formative years and beyond.  This is something I'm concerned about. IMO, iIt's put up or shut up time for Daboll and McDermott offensively.  Allen has the skills and Diggs elevates everything - so he finally has proper weapons.  Can they help him or does he have to try and overcome them like many many other failed QB's have had to do in the NFL is the question.  

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11 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Very fair points.  I guess the counter is some truly great QBs elevate their skill players.  Besides Moss, Brady has made average to bellow average guys look much better than they are.  Same with Rodgers. Russell Wilson has never played with a 1st round/ star receiver.  
 

but I think this is Allen’s Trent Edwards moment.  The Bills had Evans and crazy TO and he couldn’t get it done.  This should be a top 15 offense if we have good qb play. 


Wilson is the best QB in the game (IMO).  
 

Brady was the best QB in the game, and is the GOAT. 
 

Rodgers has had better talent than people give credit for.  I mean Devante Adams is no slouch.  He’s better than anyone Allen had last year.  
 

Still though, those are 3 of the greatest to ever play the game and most elite QBs have better talent around them than what Allen had last year.  
 

Let’s certainly hope second contract Allen is the type who can elevate a mediocre bunch.  

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8 minutes ago, White Linen said:

 

Brady, Rodgers and definitely Wilson didn't do that in their first 2 years.  What all three of them had in common was they were surrounded by excellent offensive coaching in their formative years and beyond.  This is something I'm concerned about. IMO, iIt's put up or shut up time for Daboll and McDermott offensively.  Allen has the skills and Diggs elevates everything - so he finally has proper weapons.  Can they help him or does he have to try and overcome them like many many other failed QB's have had to do in the NFL is the question.  

I mean Wilson had 52 td passes in his first 2 seasons, which I believe is a record.  
 

and this is where I get frustrated with the “excuses” for Allen.  I hated the Daboll hire from the beginning.  His track Record as an OC sucks.  But it’s extremely rare a guy gets 3 years with the same OC.  That is a huge advantage. 
 

mans the question I always ask is when is it’s Allen’s fault?  His college coach was Carson Wentz’ college coach.  You can argue the lack of talent at Wyoming but he is also playing against less talent.  It’s not like a Power 5 conference.  
 

Not one person would argue about Allen’s skills.  My issue has been is that he has never been a dominant player on any level.  He has flashes of amazing plays but it’s never consistent.  That might just be who he is.  But as long as we canall agree that he has everything he needs to be successful, I’m excited to see the season play out. Huge tests this year that wi let us know what type of player he is.  

1 minute ago, Chandler#81 said:

 

Great idea! I wish I could..☹️

It’s interesting. On one hand, you could have thicker skin.  But on the other hand, why deal with annoying people?  

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4 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

So we now like Barnwell??? ?

 

and there are zero excuses for Allen.  His 3rd year in the same system with the same OC and head coach.  A solid o line.  A defense that carries the team.  
 

if this offense isn’t top half of the league (not a high bar), we don’t have the right guy.  

As an Allen fan I see this in a similar light as you do, Having the offense in the top half of the league will keep Allen as the undisputed starter, but he will need to show he can stay there and improve as needed.  If not Beane and McDermott will have no choice but to start the process that finds his replacement. Fingers crossed that Allen advances his game as needed. I do think Josh knows full well that his future income and status is in the balance. 
 

Go Bills!!!

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2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

 

mans the question I always ask is when is it’s Allen’s fault?  His college coach was Carson Wentz’ college coach.  You can argue the lack of talent at Wyoming but he is also playing against less talent.  It’s not like a Power 5 conference.  
 

For the college part I think UND is the top tier of their division and had the surrounding talent to help Wentz out.  For Wyoming Josh was really the only threat his senior year.  So I would say its the ability of the surround cast: Wentz's cast >> Allen's cast relative to their competition. 

 

Also agree its put up or shut up time.  If he takes the jump he did from Year 1 to Year 2 this is a really good team and hes pushing to be a top 5 QB.  I suspect a smaller jump to the top 12 range (better than average versus average right now) with more playoffs coming.

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2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I mean Wilson had 52 td passes in his first 2 seasons, which I believe is a record.  
 

and this is where I get frustrated with the “excuses” for Allen.  I hated the Daboll hire from the beginning.  His track Record as an OC sucks.  But it’s extremely rare a guy gets 3 years with the same OC.  That is a huge advantage. 
 

mans the question I always ask is when is it’s Allen’s fault?  His college coach was Carson Wentz’ college coach.  You can argue the lack of talent at Wyoming but he is also playing against less talent.  It’s not like a Power 5 conference.  
 

Not one person would argue about Allen’s skills.  My issue has been is that he has never been a dominant player on any level.  He has flashes of amazing plays but it’s never consistent.  That might just be who he is.  But as long as we canall agree that he has everything he needs to be successful, I’m excited to see the season play out. Huge tests this year that wi let us know what type of player he is.  

 

 

You changed the subject but my second point did too.  Wilson, Rodgers and Brady did not make sub par players better in their first 2-3 years.

 

I in turn get frustrated when legit points are deemed excuses.  Anyone that thinks Allen has an equal chance to succeed as the QB's you mentioned, especially with advantage of hindsight, does not fully understand the problems with our offensive philosophy.  Daboll is not good at his job and McDermott has a difficult time trusting offense.

 

They have an opportunity to help or be a burden to Allen again.  We'll see if McDermott can be a Belichick - by being a defensive coach while allowing the team to be lead by the offense.

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10 minutes ago, White Linen said:

 

You changed the subject but my second point did too.  Wilson, Rodgers and Brady did not make sub par players better in their first 2-3 years.

 

I in turn get frustrated when legit points are deemed excuses.  Anyone that thinks Allen has an equal chance to succeed as the QB's you mentioned, especially with advantage of hindsight, does not fully understand the problems with our offensive philosophy.  Daboll is not good at his job and McDermott has a difficult time trusting offense.

 

They have an opportunity to help or be a burden to Allen again.  We'll see if McDermott can be a Belichick - by being a defensive coach while allowing the team to be lead by the offense.


Im definitely in the Allen-hype camp but I didn’t have much of an issue with Daboll last year.  
 

We had sub-par weaponry..  I know John Brown, Cole Beasley, Dawson Knox and Devin Singletary are exciting for what we’re used to, but that’s still a #2 WR as our #1, a slot as our #2 and two rookies.
 

Watching the Playoffs proved we needed much more of an artillery.   

 

McDermott may be conservative or he may just have been trying to win games the best way he thought he could given a second year QB and limited weapons.  
 

As far as Daboll goes, Allen’s inability to hit the deep ball killed us.  The NFL is a chunk yardage game if you want an explosive offense.  Due to Allen missing guys that were open down the field, we were forced to methodically move the ball all game, which rarely leads to a productive offense - especially when we didn’t have any reliable chain movers in the passing game outside Cole Beasley. Knox was inconsistent and Brown is more of an intermediate/deep ball guy. 
 

Also, after Trent Edwards, I respect Allen for not checking down, but with Singletary and Moss as outlets, he better start doing that more this year. 

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4 hours ago, SCBills said:


Players should be hyped up - they make a difference.  
 

Look no further than our Playoff game against the Texans.  
 

No Fuller, but still, Hopkins made plays in the second half.  
 

Our WR’s - Brown failed to toe-tap on the sideline for what could’ve been a pseudo-game winning catch.   Duke Williams dropped a TD before half.  
 

That game, more than any other, highlighted the need to get Allen a “Diggs”.   Watching our skill players vs all the other skill players in the playoffs was eye opening. 


Refs called back a TD. Stars are stars because they get protection from the other team's players and calls from the league. At the pro level, everyone has talent. Make your own stars through the hype train instead of pursuing stats and other people's hype. Or call their bluff. Fill the bench up with grinders, and Hopkins and Watson retire at halftime even if you have to give up points.

Edited by beavis
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1 hour ago, SCBills said:


Im definitely in the Allen-hype camp but I didn’t have much of an issue with Daboll last year.  
 

We had sub-par weaponry..  I know John Brown, Cole Beasley, Dawson Knox and Devin Singletary are exciting for what we’re used to, but that’s still a #2 WR as our #1, a slot as our #2 and two rookies.
 

Watching the Playoffs proved we needed much more of an artillery.   

 

McDermott may be conservative or he may just have been trying to win games the best way he thought he could given a second year QB and limited weapons.  
 

As far as Daboll goes, Allen’s inability to hit the deep ball killed us.  The NFL is a chunk yardage game if you want an explosive offense.  Due to Allen missing guys that were open down the field, we were forced to methodically move the ball all game, which rarely leads to a productive offense - especially when we didn’t have any reliable chain movers in the passing game outside Cole Beasley. Knox was inconsistent and Brown is more of an intermediate/deep ball guy. 
 

Also, after Trent Edwards, I respect Allen for not checking down, but with Singletary and Moss as outlets, he better start doing that more this year. 

 

I definitely agree that the lack of weapons was a massive issue which actually exacerbates Daboll's flaws even more.  We would abandon the run continuously.  Singletary would be having a 7.5 YPC game and he would call passing plays at alarming levels, then he'd bring in Gore and Singletary would be a non factor.  

 

He's maybe one of the worst play callers we've had, IMO.  I do like a lot of his play designs but he lacks understanding of the flow of the game.  I will never forgive him for having DiMarco as the X in overtime of the playoffs for several plays.  That goes beyond just lack of play makers.  

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10 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

So we now like Barnwell??? ?

 

and there are zero excuses for Allen.  His 3rd year in the same system with the same OC and head coach.  A solid o line.  A defense that carries the team.  
 

if this offense isn’t top half of the league (not a high bar), we don’t have the right guy.  


yup. Being better than average is his price of entry to the conversation these days. It won’t indicate he’s the guy, but is a step towards it as he hangs with the trajectory. If he falls short it’s trouble, if he’s good it’s on to the next test.

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9 hours ago, SCBills said:


Wilson is the best QB in the game (IMO).  
 

Brady was the best QB in the game, and is the GOAT. 
 

Rodgers has had better talent than people give credit for.  I mean Devante Adams is no slouch.  He’s better than anyone Allen had last year.  
 

Still though, those are 3 of the greatest to ever play the game and most elite QBs have better talent around them than what Allen had last year.  
 

Let’s certainly hope second contract Allen is the type who can elevate a mediocre bunch.  

Rodgers has had a decent supporting cast. And Adams is great. The media was banging on GB for not taking a WR but they added 5 other offensive positions in the draft in addition to  Love. They didn’t need another WR. 

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15 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

8 feels about right but 7 for the Giants feels asinine to me. That one jumped out at me (and I’m a big Saquon fan).

and so for Carolina

 

There are too many factors in play aand this list is this authors opinion.

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8 hours ago, ganesh said:

and so for Carolina

 

There are too many factors in play aand this list is this authors opinion.

Carolina at least has some elite weapons. McCaffrey is the best weapon in the league and DJ Moore is coming off almost 1,200 yards with Kyle Allen at QB. He’s a legit number 1. Robby Anderson is a nice #2 and Samuel is incredibly explosive. It’s not the deepest group beyond them but the top is strong. I don’t take much issue with their ranking. They belong in the top 10 somewhere anyways.
 

I agree though that a list like this will always be polarizing because it’s all opinion. 

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Some of the rankings that jumped out to me personally:

  • Patriots at 20. I guess he REALLY likes their RB stable, but it's hard for me to fathom ranking them this highly when he says from the jump that the WR position is the most important part. Seems like he has more faith in Sanu and Edelman than I do (mainly the Sanu part, I'm sure Edelman will be fine).
  • Colts at 26. I'm probably higher on this supporting cast than most. Hilton is obviously great and I think Pittman will be good from day 1. Pascal/Campbell is whatever. Doyle/Burton is a solid TE duo and Mack/Taylor looks like a good RB tandem.
  • In general, it seems like you could pretty much order the teens and 20s a ton of different ways and still make a decent case for it.
  • Rams at 11. I know Higbee blew up the last few weeks of the year, but I have a really hard time ranking them nearly in the top 10 with two good WRs, a maybe good/maybe flash in the pan TE, and complete unknowns at RB and WR depth.
  • Giants at 7. I'm not sure if this is totally wrong...their supporting cast is undeniably talented and deep. But it's weird to me that throughout the article, lower rated teams are specifically knocked for having a lot of talent but a lot of injury questions, and then he puts the Giants at 7 while saying they literally didn't get a single snap last season where everyone was on the field together due to all their injuries.
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