Dante Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 9 minutes ago, B-Man said: LET’S GET RID OF THE CHICAGO POLICE TOO … NO … WAIT: “18 Murders in 24 hours: Inside the most violent day in 60 years in Chicago.” (Some history on how African American neighborhoods really do suffer most when law enforcement officers fail to keep the peace.) Wonder if BLM is doing anything to help in Chicago? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 1 minute ago, Koko78 said: Yes, but those 18 murders don't make for good political theater, nor do their pictures make for good political props, so therefore their black lives don't matter. No political leverage to be had here. Like all leftist organizations they are inverted. Black Lives Matter? Not so much. They could care a less about black on black crime. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 10 minutes ago, B-Man said: LET’S GET RID OF THE CHICAGO POLICE TOO … NO … WAIT: “18 Murders in 24 hours: Inside the most violent day in 60 years in Chicago.” (Some history on how African American neighborhoods really do suffer most when law enforcement officers fail to keep the peace.) Updated daily, Chicago stats. 32 killed in the last week and over 80% of murders over the past several years are never charged (assailant unknown). Certainly the George Floyd incident deserves attention and correction but Chicago by itself generates 100X the wrongful shootings compared to police departments nationwide. The media mostly won't touch it. https://heyjackass.com/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregPersons Posted June 8, 2020 Author Share Posted June 8, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Johnnycage46 said: Good deflection. Hurts sometimes to be so wrong (I guess....I wouldn't know). Stop blaming "evil white people" for all of the problems in the minority community. Take some responsibility Gregory. EDIT: My god, you ARE special. Your quote which I responded to used the word "systematic"....which I then used in my complete destruction of your weak points. And you come back saying that I mixed up "systemic" with "systematic" Here's your post that I quoted (bold added for emphasis): 23 hours ago, GregPersons said: Oh God, I'm so sorry... I keep forgetting you have the ego of an eggshell. You're not a Nazi. You don't have the uniform. You just support minority populations being imprisoned and executed systemically as long as it doesn't affect you. Very different! Did you seriously not notice that in my quote I say "systemically" even though you bolded it? Systematically Systemically Similar, I know. There is a difference. Can ya spot it for us, Johnny? Can ya try? I'll even give you a hint. Blame me all you want. I didn't invent the language. I'm just saying, "if you live here, maybe learn to speak English" Since you can't even identify the words distinct from each other, even when you literally are tracing your chubby sausage digit over the word and s-s-s-s-sounding it out, I'm going to go ahead and guess you're not going to be able to tell me the difference in meaning. Edited June 8, 2020 by GregPersons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnycage46 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 1 minute ago, GregPersons said: Did you seriously not notice that in my quote I say "systemically" even though you bolded it? Systematically Systemically Similar, I know. There is a difference. Can ya spot it for us, Johnny? Can ya try? I'll even give you a hint. Blame me all you want. I didn't invent the English language. I'm just saying, "if you live here, maybe learn the language" Since you can't even identify the words distinct from each other, even when you literally are tracing your chubby sausage digit over the word and s-s-s-s-sounding it out, I'm going to go ahead and guess you're not going to be able to tell me the difference in meaning. So, tell me how much YOU care about black lives when black people are being slaughtered in record numbers each year by other black people. Where is the outrage? You've clearly been bested (again) and are focusing on the most minute details of my responses, when I have presented facts (not the lies you have been spouting). You have NOTHING to respond with against the facts that people are posting in this and your other threads. How are your zoom meeting invites going you weirdo? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregPersons Posted June 8, 2020 Author Share Posted June 8, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Johnnycage46 said: So, tell me how much YOU care about black lives when black people are being slaughtered in record numbers each year by other black people. Where is the outrage? You've clearly been bested (again) and are focusing on the most minute details of my responses, when I have presented facts (not the lies you have been spouting). You have NOTHING to respond with against the facts that people are posting in this and your other threads. How are your zoom meeting invites going you weirdo? You know, I need to do a re-tally but you should sign up. You should tell me what lies you think I'm spouting, and which facts you think you are presenting. I really like how the entire basis of your argument a moment ago was how you "won" because you "proved" that racism isn't "systematic" and now that's just a small little detail since, as it turns out, you didn't know "systemic" was a word and still don't know what it means, but you are nevertheless certain you proved it wrong. Like, I just watched you do that. And I will watch you deny it in your next post. You're going to insist on a reality that is completely different than the one you just subjected me to, because the new reality will better suit your argument. So basically, in real time, you're demonstrating the overall pattern of White people's racism in general and how it warps your brain and how you don't even know it. If this were a lab, you'd be the specimen I would be using to demonstrate to the class. Excited to see how you "win" in your next post! Edited June 8, 2020 by GregPersons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 20 minutes ago, keepthefaith said: Updated daily, Chicago stats. 32 killed in the last week and over 80% of murders over the past several years are never charged (assailant unknown). Certainly the George Floyd incident deserves attention and correction but Chicago by itself generates 100X the wrongful shootings compared to police departments nationwide. The media mostly won't touch it. https://heyjackass.com/ Heck if I was with BLM my first target of protest would be Planned Parenthood. That place is a full on extermination camp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnycage46 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, GregPersons said: You know, I need to do a re-tally but you should sign up. You should tell me what lies you think I'm spouting, and which facts you think you are presenting. I really like how the entire basis of your argument a moment ago was how you "won" because you "proved" that racism isn't "systematic" and now that's just a small little detail since, as it turns out, you didn't know "systemic" was a word and still don't know what it means, but you are nevertheless certain you proved it wrong. Like, I just watched you do that. And I will watch you deny it in your next post. You're going to insist on a reality that is completely different than the one you just subjected me to, because the new reality will better suit your argument. So basically, in real time, you're demonstrating the overall pattern of White people's racism in general and how it warps your brain and how you don't even know it. If this were a lab, you'd be the specimen I would be using to demonstrate to the class. Excited to see how you "win" in your next post! I won the argument because you present no facts to back up your claim of SYSTEMIC racism. Regardless of me using the incorrect word it actually did not change the context of my argument which is that you claim there is SYSTEMIC racism but provide no fact to base it on. Facts. We need facts here. Read back through my responses and you will see the facts I presented. Please provide facts that support your claim of SYSTEMIC racism. And I never mentioned SYSTEMIC racism....I was stating that I dont believe, based on facts, that black people are SYSTEMATICALLY being executed (by police. See my other responses to find out who IS SYSTEMATICALLY executing them). And YOU actually used SYSTEMICALLY incorrectly when you mentioned black people being SYSTEMICALLY executed. The correct wording, which I flawlessly used is SYSTEMATICALLY executed. Owned. You don't carry things out systemically....you carry them out systematically. Systemic refers to an overall greater issue at hand. Edited June 8, 2020 by Johnnycage46 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Joshin' Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 Once this is passed, real estate values will drop as people who can rush out will rush out of the city. The net result will be further inequality caused by a terrible policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muppy Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 I was not aware that disbanding a police force has occurred before in the USA..it has, In Camden NJ https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/minneapolis-is-not-the-first-city-to-disband-its-police-department/ar-BB15c2qe?li=BBnbcA1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 Question, if your place gets broken into and your belongings stolen, who fills out the police report if the police have been disbanded ? Asking for a friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregPersons Posted June 8, 2020 Author Share Posted June 8, 2020 Just now, Margarita said: I was not aware that disbanding a police force has occurred before in the USA..it has, In Camden NJ https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/minneapolis-is-not-the-first-city-to-disband-its-police-department/ar-BB15c2qe?li=BBnbcA1 That's awesome! Thanks for sharing. Sometimes I think, really there is no reason, based on history, to expect White America to really actually come around and support Black America in this. But things like this, I feel like this time is different. It started with Trayvon Martin, I think. People are waking up to the reality that things should be, and can be different. Very inspiring to see people encourage American ingenuity. Despite what this board would have you believe, America does have a lot of very talented and brilliant thinkers among us. They just don't go here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregPersons Posted June 8, 2020 Author Share Posted June 8, 2020 Just now, meazza said: What is white america for you? Is someone born in Algeria or Morocco white? Here ya go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregPersons Posted June 8, 2020 Author Share Posted June 8, 2020 (edited) Just now, meazza said: I asked you I didn’t ask Patrice (RIP) I'm saying don't listen to me listen to Patrice (RIP) For new page Edited June 8, 2020 by GregPersons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregPersons Posted June 8, 2020 Author Share Posted June 8, 2020 Just now, meazza said: But I didn’t ask you about his opinion, I asked you. And you got the answer you will be getting. Listen to Patrice and talk to me about Patrice and then we can talk about the question bc you will know your answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 3 hours ago, Margarita said: I was not aware that disbanding a police force has occurred before in the USA..it has, In Camden NJ https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/minneapolis-is-not-the-first-city-to-disband-its-police-department/ar-BB15c2qe?li=BBnbcA1 And now, Camden is the shining light of New Jersey. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Miner Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 The protests might have a good amount of support in this country and may help defeat Trump in November. Pushing to disband the police will undo all of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muppy Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 (edited) 49 minutes ago, GG said: And now, Camden is the shining light of New Jersey. I can’t speak to that I know they had horrible crime issues before if it’s not worse now that’s an improvement right? The article explains what they did and it shows positive reviews. If what they did worked in a place like Camden I don’t know why it couldn’t be replicated. Did you read the link? Edited June 9, 2020 by Margarita 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 4 hours ago, Margarita said: I was not aware that disbanding a police force has occurred before in the USA..it has, In Camden NJ https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/minneapolis-is-not-the-first-city-to-disband-its-police-department/ar-BB15c2qe?li=BBnbcA1 Well I don’t understand this. Not only is there still a Camden NJ police department but there are more officers than before it was disbanded. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capco Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Chef Jim said: Well I don’t understand this. Not only is there still a Camden NJ police department but there are more officers than before it was disbanded. They fired all of the officers via abolishing their department, then allowed all of the former officers to apply to be rehired under new, more selective criteria. This allowed them to snuff out the bad officers and hire new ones. In the process, their police force served the community better and expanded at the same time. A reduction in law enforcement isn't always what "abolish the police" actually means. If only people knew more... 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motorin' Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Chef Jim said: Well I don’t understand this. Not only is there still a Camden NJ police department but there are more officers than before it was disbanded. This article explains. Reading between the lines, disbanding the police department breaks the back of the unions that stand in the way of reform and accountability. Camden disbanded their department and reconstructed a new one. Minneapolis city council is planning on disbanding the current police force and following a similar path as Camden: https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/01/what-happened-to-crime-in-camden/549542/ 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reality Check Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 I fully support Sheriff's departments as they are Constitutional Officers. The rest, I don't care about them. I will enjoy from a safe distance these new social experiments. Let the games begin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 Are we against unions now ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 5 hours ago, Motorin' said: This article explains. Reading between the lines, disbanding the police department breaks the back of the unions that stand in the way of reform and accountability. Camden disbanded their department and reconstructed a new one. Minneapolis city council is planning on disbanding the current police force and following a similar path as Camden: https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/01/what-happened-to-crime-in-camden/549542/ 2019’s reigning murder capital of New Jersey *winning* 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 1 hour ago, meazza said: Are we against unions now ? Apparently, only police unions 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 5 hours ago, Motorin' said: This article explains. Reading between the lines, disbanding the police department breaks the back of the unions that stand in the way of reform and accountability. Camden disbanded their department and reconstructed a new one. Minneapolis city council is planning on disbanding the current police force and following a similar path as Camden: https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/01/what-happened-to-crime-in-camden/549542/ When Camden, New Jersey’s Chief of Police J. Scott Thomson joined the Camden police force as an officer 25 years ago, there were 175 open-air drug markets lining just nine square miles of streets. The murder rates in this city of 75,000 just across the Delaware River from Philadelphia regularly climbed to more than six times the national average. “Criminals operated with impunity,” Thomson said. After a particularly deadly year in 1995, Camden’s Cathedral of Immaculate Conception began illuminating one candle for each homicide victim. In 2012, the year ended with 67 candles—a rate of about 87 murders per 100,000 residents, which ranked Camden fifth nationwide. But on New Year’s 2018, just 22 candles were lit: The city’s murder rate fell to its lowest since 1987. The number of annual killings has been in decline since 2012; so have robberies, aggravated assaults, violent crimes, property crimes, and non-fatal shooting incidents. So what’s happening in this city, which for many years has been deemed among the dangerous in America? Thomson, who took the helm of the Camden police force in 2008, says the biggest factor may have been the change in structure of the department itself. In 2013, the Camden Police Department was disbanded, reimagined, and born again as the Camden County Police Department, with more officers at lower pay—and a strategic shift toward “community policing.” That meant focusing on rebuilding trust between the community 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tux of Borg Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 Disbanding the Camden police department was union busting. Nothing more, nothing less. Camden County Police is what covers the area now. The neighboring agencies simply refer to it as “the metro”. They have such a high turn over that their training officers (FTOs) only have 6 months on the road. Their crime stat reporting is suspect as best, changing domestics into “property removal” calls. All this to say, this isn’t a real solution. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 8 hours ago, Margarita said: I can’t speak to that I know they had horrible crime issues before if it’s not worse now that’s an improvement right? The article explains what they did and it shows positive reviews. If what they did worked in a place like Camden I don’t know why it couldn’t be replicated. Did you read the link? Did you & the other disband/defund police proponents read the article? Everyone is applauding the precedent, but it was more of an administrative move to disband the union and get MORE cops on the street. Here are the operative punchlines: Quote The following year, the city's police department was disbanded and replaced with a new one covering Camden County that had more officers, but on lower pay, according to a City Lab report. Thomson said the focus was on rebuilding trust between the city's residents and officers. He told Bloomberg that increasing the number of officers on the city's streets had been a "trust-building tactic." As well as a rise in the number of non-crisis interactions between police and residents, he said officers also underwent de-escalation training and got body cameras. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnycage46 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 54 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: Apparently, only police unions For now... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 6 hours ago, Capco said: They fired all of the officers via abolishing their department, then allowed all of the former officers to apply to be rehired under new, more selective criteria. This allowed them to snuff out the bad officers and hire new ones. In the process, their police force served the community better and expanded at the same time. A reduction in law enforcement isn't always what "abolish the police" actually means. If only people knew more... I understand the process they used My point is they have MORE police than before the restructure. Do you think maybe that’s why crime is down? And I love how the progressives are redefining words. Newspeak at it’s finest. Restructuring equals defunding. Not protesting equals racist. 6 hours ago, Motorin' said: This article explains. Reading between the lines, disbanding the police department breaks the back of the unions that stand in the way of reform and accountability. Camden disbanded their department and reconstructed a new one. Minneapolis city council is planning on disbanding the current police force and following a similar path as Camden: https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/01/what-happened-to-crime-in-camden/549542/ Then why do they call it defunding? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 2 hours ago, meazza said: Are we against unions now ? You gotta love it when these newly minted woke little communists riot (I mean peacefully protest)against organized labor. They’re so cute, you just wanna hug ‘em! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 Get rid of the bad police officers and maybe the union? Go for it. I doubt many, other than those who are pro-union, will disagree with it. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary M Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 1 hour ago, billsfan1959 said: Apparently, only police unions Well Cuomo is doing his best to piss off the teachers also. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Tiberius said: When Camden, New Jersey’s Chief of Police J. Scott Thomson joined the Camden police force as an officer 25 years ago, there were 175 open-air drug markets lining just nine square miles of streets. The murder rates in this city of 75,000 just across the Delaware River from Philadelphia regularly climbed to more than six times the national average. “Criminals operated with impunity,” Thomson said. After a particularly deadly year in 1995, Camden’s Cathedral of Immaculate Conception began illuminating one candle for each homicide victim. In 2012, the year ended with 67 candles—a rate of about 87 murders per 100,000 residents, which ranked Camden fifth nationwide. But on New Year’s 2018, just 22 candles were lit: The city’s murder rate fell to its lowest since 1987. The number of annual killings has been in decline since 2012; so have robberies, aggravated assaults, violent crimes, property crimes, and non-fatal shooting incidents. So what’s happening in this city, which for many years has been deemed among the dangerous in America? Thomson, who took the helm of the Camden police force in 2008, says the biggest factor may have been the change in structure of the department itself. In 2013, the Camden Police Department was disbanded, reimagined, and born again as the Camden County Police Department, with more officers at lower pay—and a strategic shift toward “community policing.” That meant focusing on rebuilding trust between the community - When Camden "reconceptualized" their police force, the PRIMARY change they made was to increase the number of officers by 56% - Community policing has been going on in communities across this country for years - Most officers on the street across the country are in their regular uniforms, not riot gear - Officers have always been "trained to use handguns and handcuffs only as tools of last resort" - The crime rate across the country has been decreasing for years - This is a chart of the violent crime rate per 100,000 people for Camden, from 2012-2017 (the year the article speaks of): https://www.nj.com/camden/2018/01/camdens_2017_murder_rate_was_the_lowest_in_decades.html - They stayed fairly steady from 2014 - 2017. 2018- 2019, while not on the chart, are in the same range. - They talk about how the number of murders dropped; however, they failed to mention that the murder rate is still much higher than the national average. - They talk about how the violent crime rate has dropped; however, they failed to mention that the violent crime rate is the highest of any city in NJ and almost 4 times the national average For example, the violent crime rate, per 100,000 people: Camden US 2012 1992 388 2013 1950 379 2014 1550 372 2015 1520 384 2016 1571 397 2017 1467 394 Your chance of being a victim of a violent crime in Camden has been, and remains, higher than most places in this country. The article references Camden's standing on NeighborhoodScout’s Most Dangerous Cities, which is a website ranking the dangerousness of cities over 25,000 people. Here is Camden's rankings for 2012-2020 2012 5 2013 2 2014 3 2015 1 2016 2 2017 4 2018 4 2019 8 2020 10 (projected) Edited June 9, 2020 by billsfan1959 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 15 hours ago, Capco said: I believe the key to fixing black-on-black violence and crime in black communities is to fix black poverty. The poverty rate for the whole country is 11.8%. For whites, the rate is 8.1%, and for blacks, the rate is a whopping 20.8%. http://federalsafetynet.com/us-poverty-statistics.html Some might say "well the reason so many blacks are in poverty is because so many are committing crimes and spending time in jail" but in fact the opposite is true. The reason so many blacks commit violent crime is because so many are trapped in poverty because of systemic, passive racism. Remember in our country that public school districts are locally funded. If your community is dirt poor, your high school is almost certain to become a drop out factory. This can affect Americans of all colors, but again due to decades of system racism in the economy, this ends up disproportionately affecting black economic outcomes in predominantly black communities. One thing I would like to see is to replace school taxes with a system of federal funding for all public school districts. Each student in the country should be allotted the same amount of funding with respect to regional cost-of-living differences or Purchasing Power Parity. There shouldn't be such massive public education outcome differences in an egalitarian country like our own. Otherwise, you are left in the situation we are currently in that is more akin to "quasi-public" schools. Imagine there's an excellent school district in your locale with fantastic outcomes. It's public, which means it's free at the point of delivery to all those who attend. But what's the caveat to attend? Well, you have to live in the district... and in this case living in the district almost invariably means owning a +$1 million home. Combine the property tax method with the value of those all those million dollar homes, and you might have several times the amount of money to spend per student than those districts that are dirt poor. The public school system in America as it stands today has financial barriers to entry, which runs counter to why public education was conceived in the first place (i.e. the Enlightenment philosophes believed that education was for everyone, not just the rich). tl;dr: Poverty causes crime. Education lifts people out of poverty. Eliminating/reducing poverty lowers crime rates, increases tax revenues, lowers the need for lifelong public assistance, decreases the need for militarized police, and can help put an end to active racial discrimination. And I didn't blame any one side or political party. Thanks for this. So true that education resources are not equal. But I can't say that fixing that will be a magic bullet that solves poverty. All problems and solutions start in the home. If a child grows up around violence, ignorance and substance abuse then the chances of that child growing into a solid citizen diminish greatly. The black experience in America has not been one to foster healthy social environments. The weight of history on the backs is pretty heavy and you don;'t just unring the bell of oppression overnight. The racist love it that blacks have so many social problems and want to use their favorite ploy of blaming the victim. Hopefully the times are changing and there will be more room for trial and error where every failure won't automatically be a successful tool for the right to scream their heads off and have people listen to them. Let them scream, but ignore them. But how the hell do you break the cycle of poverty? Education is important, yes. So is decent affordable housing which is a situation wildly difficult to deal with for so many reasons in a city. The countryside can just lay out some more trailer parks. The war on drugs has been a disaster for many Americans. Once you have a police record many doors for advancement are closed to that person. More experimentation with dealing with the drug problem needs to happen. Every child born in America needs to a healthy and safe environment to grow. That is not happening right now. There should be a New Deal for children and have a huge investment in social services. This would not be easy or clear cut, but through trial and error they could create a system that could do a better job of keeping an eye on children at risk, promoting reading, nutrition, exercise and better parenting practices. The military has been a great anti-poverty program. Over the last five decades or so millions of young people have left home to see a new world and gained mightily from the experience. There should be something else like a jobs corp to get at the young people and do the same building a better America. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 10 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: - When Camden "reconceptualized" their police force, the PRIMARY change they made was to increase the number of officers by 56% - Community policing has been going on in communities across this country for years - Most officers on the street across the country are in their regular uniforms, not riot gear - Officers have always been "trained to use handguns and handcuffs only as tools of last resort" - The crime rate across the country has been decreasing for years - This is a chart of the violent crime rate per 100,000 people for Camden, from 2012-2017 (the year the article speaks of): https://www.nj.com/camden/2018/01/camdens_2017_murder_rate_was_the_lowest_in_decades.html - They stayed fairly steady from 2014 - 2017. 2018- 2019, while not on the chart, are in the same range. - They talk about how the number of murders dropped; however, they failed to mention that the murder rate is still much higher than the national average. - They talk about how the violent crime rate has dropped; however, they failed to mention that the violent crime rate is the highest of any city in NJ and almost 4 times the national average For example, the violent crime rate, per 100,000 people: Camden US 2012 1992 388 2013 1950 379 2014 1550 372 2015 1520 384 2016 1571 397 2017 1467 394 Your chance of being a victim of a violent crime in Camden has been, and remains, higher than most places in this country. The article references Camden's standing on NeighborhoodScout’s Most Dangerous Cities, which is a website ranking the dangerousness of cities over 25,000 people. Here is Camden's rankings for 2012-2020 2012 5 2013 2 2014 3 2015 1 2016 2 2017 4 2018 4 2019 8 2020 10 (projected) Sounds like they fired the bad cops the union protected and rehired the good ones back. Seems to have made a major impact 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 Just now, Jaraxxus said: They've tried that. It didn't work. Why? No discipline. No disincentive for quitting. No ironclad commitments. That's precisely why the military works for so many people, myself included. When I was a kid, I needed that structure, and that discipline set me up to have a life that's far better tahn it would have been had I not enlisted. Yes, it would have to be done with the power the military has to kick the bad apples out. How many people did you know in the military that were kicked out? I knew a bunch, and we were all better for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 4 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Sounds like they fired the bad cops the union protected and rehired the good ones back. Seems to have made a major impact I don't have a problem with that. I would love to see the Dems support the same thing with the Teacher's Union... Camden is no beacon of "transformative thinking." They essentially increased the police force by 56%.The violent crime rate fell from 2012-2014 and has remained fairly constant since then. However, that violent crime rate is awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 7 minutes ago, Jaraxxus said: Not a lot, actually. Maybe one or two in my enlistment. I knew a bunch who got busted down to E-0, though. E-0??? I never heard of that. E-1 was the lowest I knew about, lol. E-0 is pretty funny, though. What a zero! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 37 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Sounds like they fired the bad cops the union protected and rehired the good ones back. Seems to have made a major impact So unions are bad now? Dammit where's that ***** playbook?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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