Article: McDermott Concerned about PSE Dysfunction

[BuffaloRebound]

I feel bad for their employees.  Sounds like years of mis-management.  Does Mrs. Pegula have a business background?  

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

 

it makes me worried of what they may have lost in fracking and the current (and previously on-going) oil/energy price drop.  If the bulk of their portfolio is now (and moving forward) the Bills and Sabres, then we are in for a world of hurt. 

 

If you'd read through the thread, you'd know they're almost 100% out of the fracking business for like 10 years now.

 

[Mango]

18 hours ago, FireChans said:

Sure it is. This thread is about PSE. The failure of their Buffalo revival is part of it. That giant One Buffalo restaurant with 2 people in it for lunch is part of it. How much money do you think they have pissed down the drain for that?

 

I mean I can go on and on about the data on the city of Buffalo not showing any signs of upward trend, that wasn't the point here, and Pegula is not responsible for the cities woe's or economic stagnancy.

 

The Harborcenter though, he shouldn't be losing money on that, other than his own ineptitude. He gets a 10 year property tax break on the property, at which point he will start to claim it as a decreasing in value on his taxes yearly (as big businesses do, but you can't do that with your house). And if they city doesn't allow it, he will sell it, and somebody else will buy it and the city will have to hand them more tax credits.  In the grand scheme of his worth, it is probably a bit of a rounding error. But getting in the black should be easy. 

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, Mango said:

 

I mean I can go on and on about the data on the city of Buffalo not showing any signs of upward trend, that wasn't the point here, and Pegula is not responsible for the cities woe's or economic stagnancy.

 

The Harborcenter though, he shouldn't be losing money on that, other than his own ineptitude. He gets a 10 year property tax break on the property, at which point he will start to claim it as a decreasing in value on his taxes yearly (as big businesses do, but you can't do that with your house). And if they city doesn't allow it, he will sell it, and somebody else will buy it and the city will have to hand them more tax credits.  In the grand scheme of his worth, it is probably a bit of a rounding error. But getting in the black should be easy. 

He is not responsible by any means, but sinking money into that pit is a surefire way to lose it.

[oldmanfan]

3 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

If you'd read through the thread, you'd know they're almost 100% out of the fracking business for like 10 years now.

 

Some folks don't want facts to obscure their opinions.  I have no idea how the Pegula's finances are structured.  No one here does.  The two things I'd say is they are in businesses such as their sports teams, hotels. etc. that are really being hit hard right now.  And second that putting up a PowerPoint to employees indicating your lifestyle is a priority (even though anyone with a functioning neuron in their skull would know that for any business owner ) is tone deaf.

[May Day 10]

3 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

If you'd read through the thread, you'd know they're almost 100% out of the fracking business for like 10 years now.

 

 

I have and even I said that I thought they sold a bulk of land rights prior to the Bills purchase...  But I see in other places that the Pegulas own 2 other fracking companies who were doing poorly, even before the pandemic/Russia-Saudi oil stuff, and the Pennsylvania one even halted operations last year, and I think the one out west did as well.  Near 100% doesnt seem accurate if 2 oil extraction companies are included

[oldmanfan]

Just now, May Day 10 said:

 

I have and even I said that I thought they sold a bulk of land rights prior to the Bills purchase...  But I see in other places that the Pegulas own 2 other fracking companies who were doing poorly, even before the pandemic/Russia-Saudi oil stuff, and the Pennsylvania one even halted operations last year, and I think the one out west did as well.  Near 100% doesnt seem accurate if 2 oil extraction companies are included

My understanding is they have one small company still in the business with about 20 employees including their daughter, who is a geologist.

[May Day 10]

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

My understanding is they have one small company still in the business with about 20 employees including their daughter, who is a geologist.

 

That's reassuring.  I was hoping they didn't have too much invested in the fracking world, and this is truly a realignment/streamlining of their sports enterprises.

[Phil The Thrill]

57 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

 

it makes me worried of what they may have lost in fracking and the current (and previously on-going) oil/energy price drop.  If the bulk of their portfolio is now (and moving forward) the Bills and Sabres, then we are in for a world of hurt. 

I don’t think it’s the Bills though.  Thanks to NFL revenue sharing, it’s basically a license to print money.  Especially when you are Market #31 and sharing profits from teams in major NFL cities
and a phattttt TV contract.  

 

As we’ve seen, I think that all of the other ancillary business are the ones that will unfortunately suffer.  This includes the Sabres who don’t receive the same revenue as an NHL franchise.

 

To me, it seems that they are spread pretty thin.  It would be best to sell off some of these and put all of their eggs in the basket that makes the most $$$ - the Bills!

[bbb]

11 hours ago, FireChans said:

I’ve never been when it’s not empty.

 

I've never been there when it's empty. 

 

2 hours ago, 4_kidd_4 said:

 

Hey good post, thanks for coming to town.

 

If it makes any difference, my dad really likes 716. The handful of times I’ve ended up there were after HS games at Harbor Center. Kinda built in audience, especially in January when you don’t want to get in and out of cars/weather  to go elsewhere.

 

And yes, the atmosphere at The Ralph/NErF is always great. We have an awesome throwback vibe here, as you mentioned. 8 extra holidays a year!

 

After high school games does not equate to when it is good.  It's got a great atmosphere for Bills, Sabres and other games..........If you're going there for a great meal, you've gone to the wrong place.  

[SectionC3]

Just a thought.  Maybe it's better we don't have a new stadium yet.  Who knows how the pandemic is going to affect sports attendance and gameday experience.  This is probably unlikely, but it may be that, moving forward, the public appetite for gathering at large events (like a football game attended by 70,000 people) just isn't there.  Or, absent a vaccine, maybe we can't have such gatherings for several years until herd immunity is established.  Or, perhaps it is that some younger, healthier people would be more wiling to attend, but older folks more at risk for COVID complications would choose to stay home.  

 

No matter, I think we're far from grasping the enormity of the impact of the pandemic.  I realize that we've had a pandemic before (albeit about 100 years ago) and we still eventually had the large gatherings I mentioned.  But times are different, now, and perhaps the reaction to this issue will be different, too.  

 

Bottom line: who knows whether any market will put 70,000 people together for a sporting event anytime soon.  And maybe, if they can weather this storm, the Pegulas lucked out and don't have to pay for a stadium that nobody would be able to come close to filling.  

[ColoradoBills]

10 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

Just a thought.  Maybe it's better we don't have a new stadium yet.  Who knows how the pandemic is going to affect sports attendance and gameday experience.  This is probably unlikely, but it may be that, moving forward, the public appetite for gathering at large events (like a football game attended by 70,000 people) just isn't there.  Or, absent a vaccine, maybe we can't have such gatherings for several years until herd immunity is established.  Or, perhaps it is that some younger, healthier people would be more wiling to attend, but older folks more at risk for COVID complications would choose to stay home.  

 

No matter, I think we're far from grasping the enormity of the impact of the pandemic.  I realize that we've had a pandemic before (albeit about 100 years ago) and we still eventually had the large gatherings I mentioned.  But times are different, now, and perhaps the reaction to this issue will be different, too.  

 

Bottom line: who knows whether any market will put 70,000 people together for a sporting event anytime soon.  And maybe, if they can weather this storm, the Pegulas lucked out and don't have to pay for a stadium that nobody would be able to come close to filling.  

 

There is a very good chance that due to the budget issues state and local governments will be going thru the next couple of years the whole

new stadium talk will lessen considerably.  As time goes by it will resurface but I wouldn't be surprised to see an extension to the lease at New Era.

[YoloinOhio]

This would be good for Sabres due to TV $$

 

 

[SectionC3]

7 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

There is a very good chance that due to the budget issues state and local governments will be going thru the next couple of years the whole

new stadium talk will lessen considerably.  As time goes by it will resurface but I wouldn't be surprised to see an extension to the lease at New Era.

 

For sure.  It's ludicrous to suggest that the state can significantly contribute in the near term unless the state gets fed money to cover a significant portion of the state's COVID costs. 

 

(Side note: of course we in NYS should get that reimbursement.  This country is a partnership between states, and we shouldn't be left holding the bag for our work in addressing the virus and helping to prevent an even greater, more catastrophic spread that almost certainly would have significantly affected just about every other state.) 

Edited April 22, 2020 by SectionC3

[ColoradoBills]

5 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

 

For sure.  It's ludicrous to suggest that the state can contribute in the near term unless the state gets fed money to cover a significant portion of the state's COVID costs. 

 

(Side note: of course we in NYS should get that reimbursement.  This country is a partnership between states, and we shouldn't be left holding the bag for our work in addressing the virus and helping to prevent an even greater, more catastrophic spread.) 

 

The Federal deficit will be astronomical the next 2 years.  Taxes will be going up and there won't be a lot of appetite for football stadiums as an example. 

[Coach Tuesday]

13 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

This would be good for Sabres due to TV $$

 

 

But bad for their fans who would have to suffer through more of the 2019-2020 product.

[Doc]

It would be helpful to know how much, if any, money the Sabres are losing. 

[SectionC3]

15 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

The Federal deficit will be astronomical the next 2 years.  Taxes will be going up and there won't be a lot of appetite for football stadiums as an example. 

 

No doubt.  But fed $ doesn't go to football stadium.  It would go to fill gaps in state budget caused by diversion of monies to COVID response.  

 

And feds can take and handle debt more readily than state governments.  NYS has balanced budget requirements, so covering the COVID costs will require huge cuts to state and local services unless the feds reimburse the state for its role in the COVID response.  Ergo, no or very limited discretionary funds for things like football stadiums. 

Edited April 22, 2020 by SectionC3

[bbb]

7 minutes ago, Doc said:

It would be helpful to know how much, if any, money the Sabres are losing. 

 

[BuffaloRebound]

Sucks when the employees are collateral damage of bad management.  Just incredibly dumb to decide after year 8 that now you want to run a sustainable business.  That should’ve been the goal from the get go.  Luckily I’m a football fan and not much of a hockey fan and it’s almost impossible to lose money running an NFL franchise.  

[Greg S]

25 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

But bad for their fans who would have to suffer through more of the 2019-2020 product.

 

I thought if they restart they would go right into the playoffs. They can't finish the 82 game regular season and then have the playoffs. Playoff teams would be based on winning percentage over points since teams haven't played the same amount of games. For example the Blue Jackets are one point ahead of the Isles for WC 2 but the Isles would make the playoffs over the Jackets because they have played 2 less games.

[YoloinOhio]

Just now, Greg S said:

 

I thought if they restart they would go right into the playoffs. They can't finish the 82 game regular season and then have the playoffs. Playoff teams would be based on winning percentage over points since teams haven't played the same amount of games. For example the Blue Jackets are one point ahead of the Isles for WC 2 but the Isles would make the playoffs over the Jackets because they have played 2 less games.

I think that’s the plan 

[Punching Bag]

36 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

The Federal deficit will be astronomical the next 2 years.  Taxes will be going up and there won't be a lot of appetite for football stadiums as an example. 

 

Yes they need to in part need to pay for COVID incentive check sent out.  

[4_kidd_4]

1 hour ago, bbb said:

 

I've never been there when it's empty. 

 

 

After high school games does not equate to when it is good.  It's got a great atmosphere for Bills, Sabres and other games..........If you're going there for a great meal, you've gone to the wrong place.  

 

The food is terrible. Can’t eff up a bottle of beer tho. I’ve been there when the Sabres are on. That wall of TV is headache inducing. 

 

I also don’t do bars for games in general these days. Stadium or house gathering. Too many real time hot takes when yr amongst the masses. 

[Punching Bag]

28 minutes ago, Greg S said:

 

I thought if they restart they would go right into the playoffs. They can't finish the 82 game regular season and then have the playoffs. Playoff teams would be based on winning percentage over points since teams haven't played the same amount of games. For example the Blue Jackets are one point ahead of the Isles for WC 2 but the Isles would make the playoffs over the Jackets because they have played 2 less games.

 

Logically they should finish the shortened season to even out the games.  But this whole portion of thread ought to be split off into its own thread on other forum IMO.

[TheFunPolice]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

Comes off as a ***** ####### to put it lightly....

 

I read it differently... To me it's a bit naive and somewhat narcissistic... That seems like a strong word, perhaps, but I think it comes from being celebrated and idolized by everyone in WNY to the point where maybe they bought into their own hype and started to believe that everyone is personally invested in the details of their lives. 

 

So many top executives are terrible at communication... that's why they need to hire people and let them handle all this stuff and write checks when needed and collect the accolades and money afterward. 

[sullim4]

I am no fan of Tim Graham, but reading this is confirming some of the things I have suspected.

 

Terry and Kim are good people that have no idea how to run an entertainment business.  Terry made some smart decisions to invest in natural gas and it was sort of a foolproof situation that led to him getting really wealthy.  I am happy for both of them and glad they kept the Bills and Sabres in Buffalo.

 

I like both of them, but neither seem to have strong leadership or management skills.  Their reaction to poor talent and hires at the top -- to bring in family under the guise of people they "trust" is cringe-worthy.  I can't think of many instances where failing businesses were brought back to life by hiring family members.

 

To be frank, I don't understand why they got into so many different businesses - restaurants, sports team ownership, marketing, etc.  Hell, they own the Marriott Harborcenter, right?  I don't generally think of oil and gas tycoons excelling at the hospitality business, but what do I know?

 

I don't like Russ Brandon, he's a weasel, but that guy knew how to run a business.  They need someone like that, but less weasel-y, operating the business.  Terry and Kim need to get back to being the investors rather than the front-seat drivers.  They should sell/cut loose the fringe businesses like the restaurants and hotel, and instead focus on the Sabres and Bills.  More importantly, they need to get a President/COO in there that can cut the fat and focus the operation back on the teams.

[bbb]

6 hours ago, sullim4 said:

I am no fan of Tim Graham, but reading this is confirming some of the things I have suspected.

 

Terry and Kim are good people that have no idea how to run an entertainment business. 

 

I think you make a lot of valid points, but this part here - Tim Graham makes it clear on twitter that he doesn't think the Pegulas are good people.