Karlos Williams making a comeback

[Utah John]

Williams was excellent in his rookie year, and it was a major disappointment when he showed up the next year unable to compete.  Not having him available as expected hurt the team.

 

If he's really making a comeback, I'll be shocked.  RBs don't sit out a couple of years and make it back.

[njbuff]

Is Karlos still pregnant?

[DrDawkinstein]

1 hour ago, Nick the Greek said:

He crushed about 40 wings. LMAO that is hilarious man.?

 

He brought his whole family in from Florida just to take them to Gabe's Gate for the wings. Told me he had been talking the wings up all offseason and couldnt wait to get back to them.

 

Thought it was pretty cool at the time. A player craving an old Buffalo-native standard.

 

And then a few days later the reports come out about him showing up overweight and out of shape and I'm just like... ?‍♂️

[Saint Doug]

9 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

He actually said this? 

I see nothing wrong with what he said. Obviously he said what anyone else on here would say, but do agree he should’ve placed more of a filter on that. That said, I’m not going to stoop to the fat or eating jokes. But, I’ll be the first to criticize his lack of effort though.  No excuses there, if that’s what lead to his downfall. 

[Doc]

23 minutes ago, Saint Doug said:

I see nothing wrong with what he said. Obviously he said what anyone else on here would say, but do agree he should’ve placed more of a filter on that. That said, I’m not going to stoop to the fat or eating jokes. But, I’ll be the first to criticize his lack of effort though.  No excuses there, if that’s what lead to his downfall. 

 

So if your bosses brought in someone to backup and potentially challenge you, you'd intentionally try to get yourself fired?

[Saint Doug]

8 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

So if your bosses brought in someone to backup and potentially challenge you, you'd intentionally try to get yourself fired?

I’m in no position to criticize what Williams is saying or how he feels, are you?

 

That said, I think we can all draw conclusions on the Whaley era. 

[Doc]

Just now, Saint Doug said:

I’m in no position to criticize what Williams is saying or how he feels, are you?

 

That said, I think we can all draw conclusions on the Whaley era. 

 

Why not?  You have a job, right?  Would you intentionally do stuff to get fired if your bosses brought in someone who could potentially challenge you?  Or use it as an opportunity to be better?  Because that's what he's saying. 

[Saint Doug]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

Why not?  You have a job, right?  Would you intentionally do stuff to get fired if your bosses brought in someone who could potentially challenge you?  Or use it as an opportunity to be better?  Because that's what he's saying. 

I have a job and I don’t see Williams as a role model, but I’m not in any position to tell anyone how they should feel or react. That’s their personal business. He quote says nothing about his efforts to better himself, so I agree, he should’ve kept competing. But, he never addressed that in his words. He’s saying exactly what he said. I’m not going to twist or misinterpret his words past what he said. If he says Whaley can eat a bag of male genitals, I’m not going to says his emotions are wrong. 

[Doc]

46 minutes ago, Saint Doug said:

I have a job and I don’t see Williams as a role model, but I’m not in any position to tell anyone how they should feel or react. That’s their personal business. He quote says nothing about his efforts to better himself, so I agree, he should’ve kept competing. But, he never addressed that in his words. He’s saying exactly what he said. I’m not going to twist or misinterpret his words past what he said. If he says Whaley can eat a bag of male genitals, I’m not going to says his emotions are wrong. 

 

Great, we'll agree to disagree.  I'll call out anyone who is the sole reason for his/her failure but blames everyone but him/herself. 

 

But what about the "die in a hole and drink bleach" comment?  Can you criticize him for that?

Edited April 10, 2020 by Doc

[Saint Doug]

55 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Great, we'll agree to disagree.  I'll call out anyone who is the sole reason for his/her failure but blames everyone but him/herself. 

 

But what about the "die in a hole and drink bleach" comment?  Can you criticize him for that?

No, I cannot. There are no laws to prevent someone from expressing their feelings. Nothing he said impedes on the right of others not harms anyone. He can say what he pleases. Our Constitutions holds this right in the highest regard.
 

I think our disagreement lies in whether he has the ability to say what he says vs believing what he says. He can say what he wants. No one should stop him. In regards to believing what he says, that is a personal decision. 

[Alphadawg7]

12 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Karlos telling anyone to eat anything .... irony

 

WINNER WINNER CHICKEN DINNER of best reply of the week.  

[billsfan_34]

12 hours ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

I agree with the Whaley hate, he was a major reason for the drought. I said when Whaley was in his 2nd year that he needed to be fired and no other team would sign him, he was that bad.

 

Williams has nobody to blame but himself, he came into camp so out of shape. 

Brandon was the bigger problem, Whaley was undermined at every turn- not saying that Whaley didn’t suck because he did! 

[John from Riverside]

I really hate when these guys waste talent like this........so sad

[CNY315]

 

[Doc]

56 minutes ago, Saint Doug said:

No, I cannot. There are no laws to prevent someone from expressing their feelings. Nothing he said impedes on the right of others not harms anyone. He can say what he pleases. Our Constitutions holds this right in the highest regard.
 

I think our disagreement lies in whether he has the ability to say what he says vs believing what he says. He can say what he wants. No one should stop him. In regards to believing what he says, that is a personal decision. 

 

Oh, I'll defend your right to say whatever you want to the death.  But that doesn't make you immune from criticism.

[chris heff]

6 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

BP was neither, was it short sighted on BPs part? Answer is no, Bill was already financially set for life at that point.  Ralph in effect cut his nose off to spite his face, and the Bills spiraled into the abyss a few years after BP left.  Never be afraid to speak truth to power. 

 

Go Bills!!!

So essentially what your saying is Polian quit. There was no way Ralph wasn’t going to defend his daughter, if Polian assumed he was so important that his boss would tolerate his transgression then he was an idiot. Polian didn’t take his money and buy a franchise in a start up league, Ralph did. Polian didn’t save the league by lending money to other franchises Ralph did. Ralph may not have been a good owner, but he was the owner. 

[Phil The Thrill]

20 minutes ago, chris heff said:

So essentially what your saying is Polian quit. There was no way Ralph wasn’t going to defend his daughter, if Polian assumed he was so important that his boss would tolerate his transgression then he was an idiot. Polian didn’t take his money and buy a franchise in a start up league, Ralph did. Polian didn’t save the league by lending money to other franchises Ralph did. Ralph may not have been a good owner, but he was the owner. 

I would say “cutting off his nose to spit his face” is the perfect analogy here.  It was a mistake...period.   And many Bills fans paid for that mistake - BIGLY!

[chris heff]

10 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said:

I would say “cutting off his nose to spit his face” is the perfect analogy here.  It was a mistake...period.   And many Bills fans paid for that mistake - BIGLY!

Yeah Phil you’re right looking at it as a fan. Polian got fired from two other jobs and went on to TV. Ralph lived into his nineties, did something he loved and built for a lifetime. Ralph died and his family sold a franchise that Ralph bought for $25k for $1.4b. The Wilson foundation then used part of that money to enhance both Buffalo and Detroit. If that isn’t enough for you than as a fan maybe  you can appreciate that Ralph made moving the Bills very difficult for new ownership. How’d that turn out for fans. 

[Don Otreply]

1 hour ago, chris heff said:

So essentially what your saying is Polian quit. There was no way Ralph wasn’t going to defend his daughter, if Polian assumed he was so important that his boss would tolerate his transgression then he was an idiot. Polian didn’t take his money and buy a franchise in a start up league, Ralph did. Polian didn’t save the league by lending money to other franchises Ralph did. Ralph may not have been a good owner, but he was the owner. 

How is it that any of that ancient history is relevant to this discussion? 
 

Ralph did good by Buffalo in the long run, but put the organization in a pitiful position by the time he passed. 

Ralph had a choice. His ego got in the way of the correct one. Owners have an obligation to their employees to not do stupid things if they want them to buy in to working for them. BP spoke from a position of power, he knew full well he would be re-employed and enjoy continued success. Ralph on the other hand was to busy sowing the seeds of his own organizations down fall to realize that. History bears this out. 
nuthin but luv fellow fan, ? just a discussion. 

 

Go Bills!!!

Edited April 10, 2020 by Don Otreply

[chris heff]

14 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

How is it that any of that ancient history is relevant to this discussion? 
 

Ralph did good by Buffalo in the long run, but put the organization in a pitiful position by the time he passed. 

Ralph had a choice. His ego got in the way of the correct one. Owners have an obligation to their employees to not do stupid things if they want them to buy in to working for them. BP spoke from a position of power, he knew full well he would be re-employed and enjoy continued success. Ralph on the other hand was to busy sowing the seeds of his own organizations down fall to realize that. History bears this out. 
nuthin but luv fellow fan, ? just a discussion. 

 

Go Bills!!!

You and Phil keep looking  at this from a fans perspective. What did fans do after Polian was fired? We kept filling the stadium, watching  games on TV and buying jerseys. From a business stand point Ralph lost nothing by defending his daughter and firing Polian. Ralph still built a business he started for $25k to $1.4 b.

[BruceVilanch]

15 hours ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

If Whaley was such a good GM why is he in the XFL? No other NFL team wanted anything to do with him when we released him. 

It's so confusing because he had such a good pedigree coming out of Pittsburgh and he said all the right things early on. I am actually pretty surprised that no one else took a shot with him as an assistant or at least part of a staff.

[Phil The Thrill]

8 hours ago, chris heff said:

Yeah Phil you’re right looking at it as a fan. Polian got fired from two other jobs and went on to TV. Ralph lived into his nineties, did something he loved and built for a lifetime. Ralph died and his family sold a franchise that Ralph bought for $25k for $1.4b. The Wilson foundation then used part of that money to enhance both Buffalo and Detroit. If that isn’t enough for you than as a fan maybe  you can appreciate that Ralph made moving the Bills very difficult for new ownership. How’d that turn out for fans. 

LOL You’re right, Ralph ran the team into his 90’s.  He RAN the team straight into the ground.  The drought was the darkest time in franchise history and it’s all on the shoulders of 1 person - Ralph!
 

Your argument is a little confusing but it goes back to the question - what makes a good professional sports owner?

 

You see to prioritize Ralph’s charitable contributions over the sub par football product he put on the field for decades.   This IMO is what makes Ralph’s legacy so conflicting.  He did a lot of good for the area but did a lot of bad on the field.  
 

Look - Dick Jauron was a really nice guy.  I met him on several occasions when he coached here and he was a gentleman.  But when people bring up Jauron, all they talk about was the terrible football he was responsible for.  Not what a nice guy he was.  
 

So while you can acknowledge his generosity to the area, the fact remains - for the last 2 decades of his ownership .... Ralph was a TERRIBLE NFL owner when it came to putting together a good on-field product for his very loyal and dedicated customers.  

Edited April 10, 2020 by Phil The Thrill

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

7 hours ago, BruceVilanch said:

It's so confusing because he had such a good pedigree coming out of Pittsburgh and he said all the right things early on. I am actually pretty surprised that no one else took a shot with him as an assistant or at least part of a staff.

Why is it confusing? If your are a good welder you will find a job. If you are a good truck driver you will find a job. If you are a bad GM no team will sign you and you will be in the XFL. If you are a bad TE like Croom no team will sign you and you will be in the XFL.

[Phil The Thrill]

8 hours ago, chris heff said:

You and Phil keep looking  at this from a fans perspective. What did fans do after Polian was fired? We kept filling the stadium, watching  games on TV and buying jerseys. From a business stand point Ralph lost nothing by defending his daughter and firing Polian. Ralph still built a business he started for $25k to $1.4 b.

Right.... but before you sell Polian short remember this -  part of the reason for the success after he was wrongly fired was because Ralph and John Butler were able to coast with the roster Polian built for several seasons.

 

A few years later Butler was able to add a few more important pieces to help, but the core of the teams from 95-99 still was largely comprised of Bills that Polian brought onto the team.  
 

Once those “core” players were no longer there...it was the darkest time in franchise history.

 

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

23 hours ago, chris heff said:

And he’s still a jerk. Article in the Athletic by Matthew Fairburn. Takes no responsibility, blames anyone and everything.

 

“You know what’s funny?” Williams said. “When I was in Buffalo, I knew something was wrong when they drafted Jonathan Williams. I knew something was up. Y’all had alternative plans. Y’all bring Reggie Bush to camp and allowed him to practice? Reggie Bush went negative rushing yards for the season. And y’all release me? Doug Whaley can eat a dick. Doug Whaley can die in a hole and drink bleach. I’m dead serious. The reason I didn’t play in the XFL is because Doug Whaley’s name was on it. I’m dead serious.”

 

He's not wrong.

 

[Phil The Thrill]

6 minutes ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

Why is it confusing? If your are a good welder you will find a job. If you are a good truck driver you will find a job. If you are a bad GM no team will sign you and you will be in the XFL. If you are a bad TE like Croom no team will sign you and you will be in the XFL.

I think the last few months in Buffalo did a lot of damage to his prospects at getting another GM position.
 

With that being said, while I don’t see him as a GM I do think he would be a good scout or someone to help evaluate pro personnel.  

1 minute ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

He's not wrong.

 

Reggie was so bad that year.  

[Codyny13]

23 hours ago, MJS said:

There will be another similar thread about Karlos making a comeback in a year or two.

 

Karlos will never actually make a comeback.

He’ll always come back...to the dinner table.

[chris heff]

46 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said:

LOL You’re right, Ralph ran the team into his 90’s.  He RAN the team straight into the ground.  The drought was the darkest time in franchise history and it’s all on the shoulders of 1 person - Ralph!
 

Your argument is a little confusing but it goes back to the question - what makes a good professional sports owner?

 

You see to prioritize Ralph’s charitable contributions over the sub par football product he put on the field for decades.   This IMO is what makes Ralph’s legacy so conflicting.  He did a lot of good for the area but did a lot of bad on the field.  
 

Look - Dick Jauron was a really nice guy.  I met him on several occasions when he coached here and he was a gentleman.  But when people bring up Jauron, all they talk about was the terrible football he was responsible for.  Not what a nice guy he was.  
 

So while you can acknowledge his generosity to the area, the fact remains - for the last 2 decades of his ownership .... Ralph was a TERRIBLE NFL owner when it came to putting together a good on-field product for his very loyal and dedicated customers.  

Finally we agree on something Ralph wasn’t a good owner, but he was a good businessman, and a nice man. I met him once in a hotel lobby. I told him I was a Bills fan and that someone in my family has had season tickets since 1960. He talked to me for about fifteen minutes. He loved the Bills and he loved the fans. 

I’m not sure drought was darkest time, maybe. Losing to Miami for a decade was pretty bag. I was at a game at the Rockpile when Ed Rutkowski played QB, that late sixties team was epically bad.

[Don Otreply]

7 hours ago, chris heff said:

You and Phil keep looking  at this from a fans perspective. What did fans do after Polian was fired? We kept filling the stadium, watching  games on TV and buying jerseys. From a business stand point Ralph lost nothing by defending his daughter and firing Polian. Ralph still built a business he started for $25k to $1.4 b.

Sure his family made a big profit on the sale of the team, but it wasn’t some genius maneuver by Ralph, he  rode the coat tails of the NFL wave, and waited long enough. 
 

What Ralph lost was his and his organizations reputation to the point the other owners merely tolerated him, and most quality NFL  players stopped wanting to play for the Buffalo Bills, and many still don’t want to, it has taken two decades, new owners and front office, to include the firing of all remaining employees Ralph hired to right the ship, and that repair work is still ongoing. 
 

At times Ralph was a useful owner,  but by and large he was a really bad the majority of the time, (like Cleveland Browns bad) the best business moves since the merger were hiring BP and selling the team to Terry and Kim. I’m a vocal fan of the team, but I’m not drinking the Ralph Koolaid...  nuthin but luv fellow fan. ?
 

Go Bills!!! 

[chris heff]

7 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

Sure his family made a big profit on the sale of the team, but it wasn’t some genius maneuver by Ralph, he  rode the coat tails of the NFL wave, and waited long enough. 
 

What Ralph lost was his and his organizations reputation to the point the other owners merely tolerated him, and most quality NFL  players stopped wanting to play for the Buffalo Bills, and many still don’t want to, it has taken two decades, new owners and front office, to include the firing of all remaining employees Ralph hired to right the ship, and that repair work is still ongoing. 
 

At times Ralph was a useful owner,  but by and large he was a really bad the majority of the time, (like Cleveland Browns bad) the best business moves since the merger were hiring BP and selling the team to Terry and Kim. I’m a vocal fan of the team, but I’m not drinking the Ralph Koolaid...  nuthin but luv fellow fan. ?
 

Go Bills!!! 

Ralph was not a good franchise owner, but without Ralph Wilson the AFL would have gone out of business. Not only did he invest in the Bills, but he bailed out both the Oakland Raiders and The New York Titans. Had he not done that in all likelihood the league would have collapsed. Which means no merger and no Buffalo Bills. If that perspective is “drinking the Ralph Koolaid”, then keep it coming and don’t break the rhythm.

[Jauronimo]

4 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

One interesting point and a big knock I'll give Whaley, even as a "Whaley Apologist" ? is that all players, whether class-acts like Fitz/Freddie/Eric Wood, dumbasses like Karlos, or somewhere in between like Aaron Williams... ALL seem to hate him.

 

I might say it's because everyone hates their boss and the guy who ultimately cuts/trades/negotiates against their contract, but I get the exact opposite feeling of how players feel about Beane when they jump at the chance to re-sign with him or follow him to another team.

I was thinking the same thing.  

 

I don't think McCoy is crazy about Beane but part of that is his pride/ego.

[Rico]

 

I have to give Polian the benefit of the doubt, she looked just like Ralph.

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, Jauronimo said:

I was thinking the same thing.  

 

I don't think McCoy is crazy about Beane but part of that is his pride/ego.

 

He probably doesnt love Beane, but he should respect that Beane made sure to trade him to his old coach and a good team where he would be well taken care of. If he doesnt appreciate that now, he will in time.

[Phil The Thrill]

48 minutes ago, chris heff said:

Finally we agree on something Ralph wasn’t a good owner, but he was a good businessman, and a nice man. I met him once in a hotel lobby. I told him I was a Bills fan and that someone in my family has had season tickets since 1960. He talked to me for about fifteen minutes. He loved the Bills and he loved the fans. 

I’m not sure drought was darkest time, maybe. Losing to Miami for a decade was pretty bag. I was at a game at the Rockpile when Ed Rutkowski played QB, that late sixties team was epically bad.

I wasn’t around then, so I’ll have to take your word on that 

[DrDawkinstein]

30 minutes ago, chris heff said:

Ralph was not a good franchise owner, but without Ralph Wilson the AFL would have gone out of business. Not only did he invest in the Bills, but he bailed out both the Oakland Raiders and The New York Titans. Had he not done that in all likelihood the league would have collapsed. Which means no merger and no Buffalo Bills. If that perspective is “drinking the Ralph Koolaid”, then keep it coming and don’t break the rhythm.

 

He also bailed out and is responsible for the New England Patriots. So not sure how to feel about that one in the long run ?

[Phil The Thrill]

44 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

Sure his family made a big profit on the sale of the team, but it wasn’t some genius maneuver by Ralph, he  rode the coat tails of the NFL wave, and waited long enough. 
 

What Ralph lost was his and his organizations reputation to the point the other owners merely tolerated him, and most quality NFL  players stopped wanting to play for the Buffalo Bills, and many still don’t want to, it has taken two decades, new owners and front office, to include the firing of all remaining employees Ralph hired to right the ship, and that repair work is still ongoing. 
 

At times Ralph was a useful owner,  but by and large he was a really bad the majority of the time, (like Cleveland Browns bad) the best business moves since the merger were hiring BP and selling the team to Terry and Kim. I’m a vocal fan of the team, but I’m not drinking the Ralph Koolaid...  nuthin but luv fellow fan. ?
 

Go Bills!!! 

There’s no doubt that Ralph did a lot of damage to Buffalo in the 00’s and gave the organization a really bad reputation.

[Don Otreply]

49 minutes ago, chris heff said:

Ralph was not a good franchise owner, but without Ralph Wilson the AFL would have gone out of business. Not only did he invest in the Bills, but he bailed out both the Oakland Raiders and The New York Titans. Had he not done that in all likelihood the league would have collapsed. Which means no merger and no Buffalo Bills. If that perspective is “drinking the Ralph Koolaid”, then keep it coming and don’t break the rhythm.

 He bailed out the patriots as well iirc, look Ralph was a good person, and he did good things socially. And for that I’ll have a glass of koolaid. 
  As a football team owner... if not for the NFL monopoly he would have been the victim of a Wall Street hostile business take over. 
 

Go Bills!!!
 

[C.Biscuit97]

11 hours ago, Phil The Thrill said:

I would say “cutting off his nose to spit his face” is the perfect analogy here.  It was a mistake...period.   And many Bills fans paid for that mistake - BIGLY!

If someone calls your daughter a see you next Tuesday (which is allegedly what Polian said) and you do nothing about it, you’re a ?.  If I was in that scenario, they would have had to pull me off of him.  
 

and he is a great GM but he knew how to pick his spots.  Got multiple top 5 picks with Carolina.  Got the number 1 pick in Indy (and built a 1-15 team).  And got the #1 pick in Buffalo and inherited Jim Kelly.  Any GM would kill for that.

1 hour ago, Phil The Thrill said:

There’s no doubt that Ralph did a lot of damage to Buffalo in the 00’s and gave the organization a really bad reputation.

And the Bills wouldn’t still be in Buffalo if it wasn’t for Ralph so let the man Rest In Peace.  

[YoloinOhio]

16 hours ago, Saint Doug said:

I’m in no position to criticize what Williams is saying or how he feels, are you?

 

That said, I think we can all draw conclusions on the Whaley era. 

Yes. He said he hoped he would drink bleach and die in a hole. 

[Phil The Thrill]

23 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

If someone calls your daughter a see you next Tuesday (which is allegedly what Polian said) and you do nothing about it, you’re a ?.  If I was in that scenario, they would have had to pull me off of him.  
 

and he is a great GM but he knew how to pick his spots.  Got multiple top 5 picks with Carolina.  Got the number 1 pick in Indy (and built a 1-15 team).  And got the #1 pick in Buffalo and inherited Jim Kelly.  Any GM would kill for that.

And the Bills wouldn’t still be in Buffalo if it wasn’t for Ralph so let the man Rest In Peace.  

 

I hope you also enjoyed the drought that Ralph gave us??

39 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

 He bailed out the patriots as well iirc, look Ralph was a good person, and he did good things socially. And for that I’ll have a glass of koolaid. 
  As a football team owner... if not for the NFL monopoly he would have been the victim of a Wall Street hostile business take over. 
 

Go Bills!!!
 

Thank you for speaking the truth