Sammy Watkins restructures contract - Will Return

[mjd1001]

3 hours ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

I mean after 6 seasons is it potential or is it what you see is what you get?

Sammy might have one more 1000 yard season in him, but I wouldn’t bet on it. 

 

Take his entire career including the time with the Bills and per 16 games played:  60 receptions, 893 yards,  6.5 TDs

 

Take his time since leaving the Bills (Rams and Chiefs) per 16 games:  54 receptions, 732 yards, 5.7 tds

 

This is over a 6 year, 76 game played career.  He has the physical talent to occasionally have a very good game...but he is what he is...a below average starting WR, or a decent #3.

[MarkyMannn]

3 hours ago, Dopey said:

$ 9 mil base sounds like a lot of $ for someone who over the past 2 seasons, averaged 46 rec for less than 600 yds per season. Oh, and 3 td each of the last 2 seasons.

Yeah but he is a HOF decoy.  I read that here

[ALLEN1QB]

27 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I mean qb play is a Huge factor in this. 

Yeah, I bet they are definitely regretting winning that Super Bowl.  Would have been way better off saving their money so they might have a chance to win it 5 years from now.

Obviously we all are aware that Kansas City won the Super Bowl. I was just merely stating that right now Buffalo could easily absorb signing Josh Allen where as Kansas City would look like a totally different team if they had to pay Patrick Mahomes. Like I stated going forward year by year Buffalo will start to look better given their cap Savvy general manager. Thanks again for reminding us who won the Super Bowl wonderful

[TroutDog]

33 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

That afterthought was their leading receiver in the playoffs.  Matter of fact in 5 playoffs games with the Chiefs, he has 454 yards or 90.8 yards/ game.  I would be furious with that type of production. 

He was exceptional in the playoffs but, my point was, during the year he wasn’t utilized heavily. 

[C.Biscuit97]

6 minutes ago, ALLEN-2-DIGGS-TD!! said:

Obviously we all are aware that Kansas City won the Super Bowl. I was just merely stating that right now Buffalo could easily absorb signing Josh Allen where as Kansas City would look like a totally different team if they had to pay Patrick Mahomes. Like I stated going forward year by year Buffalo will start to look better given their cap Savvy general manager. Thanks again for reminding us who won the Super Bowl wonderful

I mean it was a silly post.  I’m excited about the future but I would have rather just watched my team win the Super Bowl.

 

and Mahomes is the franchise.  He nearly carried the 2nd worst defense to the SB in 2018.  They will be completely fine if he stays healthy.

6 minutes ago, TroutDog said:

He was exceptional in the playoffs but, my point was, during the year he wasn’t utilized heavily. 

I just don’t think he’s totally healthy.  Foot injuries are killers for receivers.  
 

also, and this is what a guy like Diggs struggles with.  But being a threat on offense helps the rest of the team.  Diggs could have a major impact on the game even if he only has like 3 catches by drawing coverage and opening up run lanes.  He struggled in Minnesota to be happy doing this.  I’m sure Sammy wants the ball more but he helps the offense.  You need multiple threats.  And we finally have that now.

[Phil The Thrill]

4 hours ago, Virgil said:

Not that there was a ever a doubt IMO.  That’s a solid downgrade and I’m curious to see his performance now that he’s more “pay for play”
 

 

It’s shocking how many Bills fans still defend Sammy to this day.  Here’s a fun activity - how would you rank the WR’s in the 2014 draft?  Is Sammy even a first round pick if you could re-draft?

 

 

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

While leading the super bowl champions in receiving in the playoffs.  
 

 

See what I mean?  Gotta love this Sammy-apologists! 

31 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

 

Take his entire career including the time with the Bills and per 16 games played:  60 receptions, 893 yards,  6.5 TDs

 

Take his time since leaving the Bills (Rams and Chiefs) per 16 games:  54 receptions, 732 yards, 5.7 tds

 

This is over a 6 year, 76 game played career.  He has the physical talent to occasionally have a very good game...but he is what he is...a below average starting WR, or a decent #3.

But Sammy is still a great WR according to same Bills fans.

 

Also, Doug Whaley was a great GM ?

[atlbillsfan1975]

2 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

He looked pretty damn good in the biggest games for the chiefs in the playoffs.

Ok. Keep following that Scott. What does that tell you? 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

50 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Fun fact:  Diggs averages 66 yards/ game.  Sammy when a Bill averaged 66.5 yards/ game.

 

sammy, when healthy which is obviously a problem for him, is about as talented as any receiver in the nfl. 

Bills fans laughed at NE signing Gilmore.  Fans aren’t always smart. 

even funner fact:

 

despite coming into the league a season After Sammy, Diggs has Amassed: 

 

80 more catches, 400 more yards, and 1 less touchdown, has 10% better catch %, more first downs, and a slightly higher yds/target. 
 

Even when they are both on the field, Diggs is just plain better. 

[eanyills]

2 hours ago, ALLEN-2-DIGGS-TD!! said:

Wait until they have to pay Patrick Mahomes. I really love the way we are being smart with the money. I think Buffalo is going to get more and more dominant every year as other teams start to get in cap jail.

And Josh Allen is going to be free? If Allen continues to progress as this team’s franchise QB, he’s going to be 35 million a year.

 

 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

 

Bills fans laughed at NE signing Gilmore.  Fans aren’t always smart. 

 

Haha. Count me as one of those fans!!! Tip you hat to Gilmore for playing at an elite level, but I am glad he’s gone and would rather have Tre. 

 

It is though amazing how the refs no longer throw those flags on Gilmore for illegal contact now that he with the Pats— just saying...  ?

[C.Biscuit97]

5 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

even funner fact:

 

despite coming into the league a season After Sammy, Diggs has Amassed: 

 

80 more catches, 400 more yards, and 1 less touchdown, has 10% better catch %, more first downs, and a slightly higher yds/target. 
 

Even when they are both on the field, Diggs is just plain better. 

Diggs is healthier and that is the major difference imo.  And that’s just as important as talent.  
 

and Sammy was huge in the playoffs for a team that won a SB.  That contract is worth every penny now.  If Diggs has the same exact production and the Bills won the SB, it was a great trade. 

5 minutes ago, JR in Pittsburgh said:

 

Haha. Count me as one of those fans!!! Tip you hat to Gilmore for playing at an elite level, but I am glad he’s gone and would rather have Tre. 

 

It is though amazing how the refs no longer throw those flags on Gilmore for illegal contact now that he with the Pats— just saying...  ?

It would have been awful to have kept Gilmore and drafted Mahomes.  I love Tre and he’s one of the best but this scenario wouldn’t  have been bad either.  

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

5 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Diggs is healthier and that is the major difference imo.  And that’s just as important as talent.  
 

and Sammy was huge in the playoffs for a team that won a SB.  That contract is worth every penny now.  If Diggs has the same exact production and the Bills won the SB, it was a great trade. 

 
10% higher catch percentage is a monster number that is not a health issue. 
 

Sammy has a game every now and again- he lacks consistency in addition to the availability issue you point to.

[billsfan89]

Win win for both sides. Sammy was hugely overpaid on that deal but still brought positive value to that offense. Basically Sammy gets his guaranteed money and some incentives to make up a lot of what he gave up. KC gets some cap space to make them a functional team cap wise while keeping Sammy. Sammy gets more than he would on the open market in an offense that can inflate his stats just in time for another free agency run. 

[ALLEN1QB]

33 minutes ago, eanyills said:

And Josh Allen is going to be free? If Allen continues to progress as this team’s franchise QB, he’s going to be 35 million a year.

 

 

And we have money available where we could absorb his contract today where as Kansas City for example had to restructure a contract because they had less than $200 space available. All that I am saying people is that the Bill's are doing a good job with their cap. Eventually it will pay dividends when other teams get in cap trouble. Geeeezzzz

[Doc]

2 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

Fumes? Sherman ranked 8th among NFL CBs in passer rating allowed in 2019.

 

I was talking about that SB game. 

[billsfan89]

2 hours ago, H2o said:

I mean Watkins has taken home $32,000,000 the last couple of years and will get another $9,000,000 this year at least. It's not a bad haul and he got a ring. Can't be mad at that. 

 

His agent timed that 3 year deal perfectly. He got a nice 40 million plus and is going to be 28 and a free agent and will have a good shot at one more big contract (and playing in KC's offense might help inflate his stats.) I think that players are going to emulate that model going forward. Typically players become free agents around 25-26 and they are usually lucky to get 1 big contract. I think a lot of guys are going to sign big 2-3 year deals to get a second crack at a good contract when they are 27-29. As opposed to signing 5 year deals whose guarantees run out after year 3 anyway and then they are unlikely to hit the market for another good deal. 

 

I think we saw that same thing with Shaq who got a good deal with Miami but then will be a free agent again at age 28 where he can get another 3-4 year big payday. Smart for players to try and maximize their value on shorter term deals.

[Billl]

Watkins is a great fit in KC’s offense.  He’s typically up against the other team’s #1 Corner.  With Hill on the other side, teams generally provide Safety help.  Kelce then becomes a huge mismatch because LBs can’t cover him.  When Watkins is out, Kelce’s production goes way down.  Sammy can block, get YAC, and he doesn’t complain about not getting enough targets.  Oh yeah, he also had a 70 yard TD to ice the AFCCG and torched Sherman on the go-ahead drive in the Super Bowl.  Every 2019 offensive starter from KC is now returning.

[C.Biscuit97]

13 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I was talking about that SB game. 

And this just sums how irrational fans are cb play.  A guy has a bad game and he sucks?  The Bills love doing this with Gilmore.  Once we are allowed, go find a guy who runs a 4.4 40, have him and the qb come up with a route, then guard that player without laying a finger on him.  Next to quarterback, cornerback is the hardest position to play in the nfl.

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, Dopey said:

 

Yes, whatever rational I need to say I think $9 mil base seems like a lot for what he provided the past 2 regular seasons. That was my point. Let's not try to make this into more than what it is. I gave my opinion and yes, gave my rational. Don't like it, cool. I'm not going to drag this into argument territory. Stay safe.

We was overpaid until he did what he did in the playoffs imo. The fact that they won the SB and he was a key contributor in the final two games changed my mind.  He was exactly what they needed. 

[C.Biscuit97]

14 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

His agent timed that 3 year deal perfectly. He got a nice 40 million plus and is going to be 28 and a free agent and will have a good shot at one more big contract (and playing in KC's offense might help inflate his stats.) I think that players are going to emulate that model going forward. Typically players become free agents around 25-26 and they are usually lucky to get 1 big contract. I think a lot of guys are going to sign big 2-3 year deals to get a second crack at a good contract when they are 27-29. As opposed to signing 5 year deals whose guarantees run out after year 3 anyway and then they are unlikely to hit the market for another good deal. 

 

I think we saw that same thing with Shaq who got a good deal with Miami but then will be a free agent again at age 28 where he can get another 3-4 year big payday. Smart for players to try and maximize their value on shorter term deals.

It’s absolutely insane Sammy is only 26! I wish he would have stayed healthy.  

[Chicken Boo]

While too many are worried purely about stats, Sammy was an integral part of a Super Bowl winning team and will have made, at minimum, $41 million over the past 3 seasons - all before age 30.

 

THAT, my friends, is a great career!

[Doc]

18 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

And this just sums how irrational fans are cb play.  A guy has a bad game and he sucks?  The Bills love doing this with Gilmore.  Once we are allowed, go find a guy who runs a 4.4 40, have him and the qb come up with a route, then guard that player without laying a finger on him.  Next to quarterback, cornerback is the hardest position to play in the nfl.

 

Is it any more irrational than pimping Sammy for showing up in one game during the post-season and saying he's great?  So now you're a Sammy fan?  LOL!

[Billsfan1972]

Haters continue to hate......  Boy it would have sucked to have Watkins in 2017 on......  

 

For a decoy and maligned receiver (only in Buffalo), he's amassed a pretty penny.....  Oh yea & produced when it counted for KC......

 

Boy that 2017 Bills receiving corp was something special, wasn't it????

 

The good news is Bills fans won't debate signing him as a decoy if he had been waived.......??

Edited April 3, 2020 by Billsfan1972

[Billl]

4 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Is it any more irrational than pimping Sammy for showing up in one game during the post-season and saying he's great?  So now you're a Sammy fan?  LOL!

One game?  In his two seasons with the Chiefs, he’s played 5 postseason games.  
6 catches for 62 yards

4 catches for 114 yards

2 catches for 76 yards

7 catches for 114 yards

5 catches for 98 yards

 

2 years, 5 games, 34 targets, 24 catches, 464 yards, 1 ring

[Doc]

13 minutes ago, Billl said:

One game?  In his two seasons with the Chiefs, he’s played 5 postseason games.  
6 catches for 62 yards

4 catches for 114 yards

2 catches for 76 yards

7 catches for 114 yards

5 catches for 98 yards

 

2 years, 5 games, 34 targets, 24 catches, 464 yards, 1 ring

 

And yet during the season is only averaging 46 catches for 600 yards and 3 TDs.

[Billl]

32 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

And yet during the season is only averaging 46 catches for 600 yards and 3 TDs.

John Brown and Duke Williams were the leading WRs against the Texans.  They combined to catch 8 passes on 18 targets for 99 yards and no scores.  A week later against the same team, Sammy had only 2 targets but caught both of them for 76 yards.

 

The Chiefs offense was much better with him on the field during the regular season than when he was out, and then he took his game to the next level in the postseason.  People here love to hate him, but there aren’t a lot of 26 year olds with over 4000 receiving yards and over 30 TDs in the regular season plus those kind of postseason performances.

[Doc]

1 minute ago, Billl said:

John Brown and Duke Williams were the leading WRs against the Texans.  They combined to catch 8 passes on 18 targets for 99 yards and no scores.  A week later against the same team, Sammy had only 2 targets but caught both of them for 76 yards.

 

The Chiefs offense was much better with him on the field during the regular season than when he was out, and then he took his game to the next level in the postseason.  People here love to hate him, but there aren’t a lot of 26 year olds with over 4000 receiving yards and over 30 TDs in the regular season plus those kind of postseason performances.

 

There also aren't a lot of 26 year olds who have already been in the league for 6 years.  That comes out to an average of 47 catches for 707 yards and 5 TDs a season.

 

And sure his presence helps.  But it's not like he's even the 2nd most talented guy on the last 2 teams he's played on.  He's a complementary piece.  Which is fine if you can afford him, and the Chefs can...for now.

[Dopey]

4 minutes ago, Billl said:

John Brown and Duke Williams were the leading WRs against the Texans.  They combined to catch 8 passes on 18 targets for 99 yards and no scores.  A week later against the same team, Sammy had only 2 targets but caught both of them for 76 yards.

 

The Chiefs offense was much better with him on the field during the regular season than when he was out, and then he took his game to the next level in the postseason.  People here love to hate him, but there aren’t a lot of 26 year olds with over 4000 receiving yards and over 30 TDs in the regular season plus those kind of postseason performances.

The operative word(s) there was Duke Williams. He had 10 of the attempts for 4 catches and a dropped td. He also showed he can't get open in the nfl. I think John Brown could have easily done what Sammy did with Kelcey, Hill and especially Mahomes, instead of Duke, Knox and Josh. I guess Sammy was saving himself for the playoff run. Smart of him and congrats. I still think $9 mil base is kinda high for Sammy. JMO.

[Billsfan1972]

2 hours ago, Dopey said:

The operative word(s) there was Duke Williams. He had 10 of the attempts for 4 catches and a dropped td. He also showed he can't get open in the nfl. I think John Brown could have easily done what Sammy did with Kelcey, Hill and especially Mahomes, instead of Duke, Knox and Josh. I guess Sammy was saving himself for the playoff run. Smart of him and congrats. I still think $9 mil base is kinda high for Sammy. JMO.

Which is typical of Bills fans here about every high drafty pick.  They all are over paid & the Bills did the right thing dumping them.

 

Funny how Sammy has teams happy to have him & pay him......

 

Please remind me again that killer 2017 receiving corp the Bills had????

[Dopey]

9 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Which is typical of Bills fans here about every high drafty pick.  They all are over paid & the Bills did the right thing dumping them.

 

Funny how Sammy has teams happy to have him & pay him......

 

Please remind me again that killer 2017 receiving corp the Bills had????

I actually liked us drafting Sammy, trade and all. Your comment on "typical" fans and high draft picks rings hollow here. He was drafted to be a #1 wr and it didn't work out. Sammy hasn't been a #1 in the last 4 yrs. It was the right move to trade him when we did. We used the draft capital from that trade to move up and draft Josh. As for the 2017 team, we made the playoffs without him. So, we trade him and make the playoffs without him. Sure, we really needed him.?

Your "haters continue to hate" and "typical" comments are weak. We can have a different opinion without you acting like a baby. No?

[CEN-CAL17]

They should be tough again next year.... does buffalo have enough to get after Mahomes?

[Billsfan1972]

6 minutes ago, Dopey said:

I actually liked us drafting Sammy, trade and all. Your comment on "typical" fans and high draft picks rings hollow here. He was drafted to be a #1 wr and it didn't work out. Sammy hasn't been a #1 in the last 4 yrs. It was the right move to trade him when we did. We used the draft capital from that trade to move up and draft Josh. As for the 2017 team, we made the playoffs without him. So, we trade him and make the playoffs without him. Sure, we really needed him.?

Your "haters continue to hate" and "typical" comments are weak. We can have a different opinion without you acting like a baby. No?

Maybe not directed at you, but at lot here who seemed to be upset the Bills traded up to draft Watkins & seem to blame the injuries he had on him.  He was productive as a Bill (including a 1000 yard season) with minimal targets.  

 

As a Chief again he is the third option, however draws difficult assignments.  

 

For some reason the Chiefs want him back & they are the favorite in the NFL because of their offense & players like Watkins.

[Billl]

1 minute ago, Dopey said:

I actually liked us drafting Sammy, trade and all. Your comment on "typical" fans and high draft picks rings hollow here. He was drafted to be a #1 wr and it didn't work out. Sammy hasn't been a #1 in the last 4 yrs. It was the right move to trade him when we did. We used the draft capital from that trade to move up and draft Josh. As for the 2017 team, we made the playoffs without him. So, we trade him and make the playoffs without him. Sure, we really needed him.?

Your "haters continue to hate" and "typical" comments are weak. We can have a different opinion without you acting like a baby. No?

Using the fact that the Bills made the playoffs in 2017 to prove any point ever is ridiculous.  That was a bad football team.  They were outscored by 57 points on the season.  The offense scored 274 points...17 PPG.

 

The previous season, they scored 100 more points and had a point differential of +21 on the season.  There was an enormous drop off.

[Aussie Joe]

7 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

That afterthought was their leading receiver in the playoffs.  Matter of fact in 5 playoffs games with the Chiefs, he has 454 yards or 90.8 yards/ game.  I would be furious with that type of production. 

So why do you think he is so average in the regular season?

[Billl]

12 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

So why do you think he is so average in the regular season?

He’s played in 3 different systems/ on 3 different teams in the past 4 seasons and battled injuries.  In the process, he’s still put up a pretty solid resume if you look at it objectively.  Consider the fact that he’s still only 26, and I’m inclined to think Andy Reid may not be an idiot for bringing him back to his Super Bowl winning team.

[Aussie Joe]

3 minutes ago, Billl said:

He’s played in 3 different systems/ on 3 different teams in the past 4 seasons and battled injuries.  In the process, he’s still put up a pretty solid resume if you look at it objectively.  Consider the fact that he’s still only 26, and I’m inclined to think Andy Reid may not be an idiot for bringing him back to his Super Bowl winning team.

His injuries are part of the story  with him though.,

A 3 yr average since he left the Bills of 600 yards and 5 TDs a year may be solid but not at $16M a year..now  he will get Brown money, but personally I’d prefer Brown

 

[Billl]

1 minute ago, Aussie Joe said:

His injuries are part of the story  with him though.,

A 3 yr average since he left the Bills of 600 yards and 5 TDs a year may be solid but not at $16M a year..now  he will get Brown money, but personally I’d prefer Brown

 

His salary for this season is $9,000,000.  He’s not worth $16,000,000, but he was owed 7 if he was cut.

[Aussie Joe]

1 minute ago, Billl said:

His salary for this season is $9,000,000.  He’s not worth $16,000,000, but he was owed 7 if he was cut.

Yeah that’s what I said.. and I’d prefer to be paying that to Brown

 

Edited April 3, 2020 by Aussie Joe

[Dopey]

29 minutes ago, Billl said:

Using the fact that the Bills made the playoffs in 2017 to prove any point ever is ridiculous.  That was a bad football team.  They were outscored by 57 points on the season.  The offense scored 274 points...17 PPG.

 

The previous season, they scored 100 more points and had a point differential of +21 on the season.  There was an enormous drop off.

You can try to twist the narrative if you want to, but my point that we didn't need him to make the playoffs rings true. Like it or not. It's in the history books. The Bills were bad during Sammy's time here too. Your numbers aside, we made the playoffs the year after trading him. We didn't need him. We did well to trade him when we did and I'm pretty sure we used the picks from the trade to move up and get Josh.

[Dopey]

8 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Fun fact:  Diggs averages 66 yards/ game.  Sammy when a Bill averaged 66.5 yards/ game.

 

sammy, when healthy which is obviously a problem for him, is about as talented as any receiver in the nfl. 

Bills fans laughed at NE signing Gilmore.  Fans aren’t always smart. 

I hated losing Gilmore. TBD pitchfork guy.