There should be a national dialogue in getting back to work

[Boatdrinks]

7 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

May 1st is a long time from now! We shut  our office in Southern California three weeks ago. May 1st is another three weeks from now. The country will be in a far better place by then. 

And in many ways, the country will be in a worse place then. Far worse. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

7 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:

And in many ways, the country will be in a worse place then. Far worse. 

 

By design.

[4merper4mer]

19 hours ago, Crayola64 said:

The funniest part about the thread is how many of you don’t actually leave your house to “work”

I predicted you'd be a douche bag but this isn't the prescience thread.

 

Do I get half a point?

[Artful Dodger]

15 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

May 1st is a long time from now! We shut  our office in Southern California three weeks ago. May 1st is another three weeks from now. The country will be in a far better place by then. 

 

From the Guardian newspaper:  https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/10/less-than-1-of-austria-infected-with-coronavirus-new-study-shows

 

"Less than 1% of the Austrian population is “acutely infected” with coronavirus, new research based on testing a representative sample of more than 1,500 people suggests."

"The research, if replicated and confirmed elsewhere, would appear to scotch hopes of countries being remotely close to relying on “herd immunity” – where enough of the population is exposed to the virus to build up a combined immunity – as a viable policy option."

 

If the same is true for the United States, it means that if we open up in May, the country will be in about the same place it is now, except that hopefully we'll have more masks and ventilators available for the many people who are going to get sick and need to be hospitalized.  Social distancing and shutdowns were never meant to eliminate the virus; they were meant to ensure that we don't all get sick at the same time and overwhelm hospitals.  You can bend the curve, but the curve is still there. 

 

The price for opening up the economy is that a lot of people are going to die.  That's true if we open up in May; it will be true if we open up in July.  It will be true until a vaccine is developed.

[Tiberius]

6 minutes ago, Artful Dodger said:

 

 

 

The price for opening up the economy is that a lot of people are going to die.  That's true if we open up in May; it will be true if we open up in July.  It will be true until a vaccine is developed.

Yup

"Opening up" isn't going to be any one person's or leaders or organizations decision. The NBA basically led the way with shut down and sports leagues might be the measure we follow as a society to reopen. Will Trump start holding his rallies if the NFL is not open for business? Even if more states end social distancing the profession and college teams may balk at returning to play until they feel it's totally safe to gather 80,000 in a stadium. 

[SoCal Deek]

32 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Yup

"Opening up" isn't going to be any one person's or leaders or organizations decision. The NBA basically led the way with shut down and sports leagues might be the measure we follow as a society to reopen. Will Trump start holding his rallies if the NFL is not open for business? Even if more states end social distancing the profession and college teams may balk at returning to play until they feel it's totally safe to gather 80,000 in a stadium. 

Wrong as usual Tibs. Your take on things is often totally backwards. This is a free society. At least it’s supposed to be. The President (one person) can/will make the decision to remove the restrictions on gathering...without people risking fine or penalty. Then it will be up to the people to decide if they actually do. Its called freedom! 

[RochesterRob]

36 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Yup

"Opening up" isn't going to be any one person's or leaders or organizations decision. The NBA basically led the way with shut down and sports leagues might be the measure we follow as a society to reopen. Will Trump start holding his rallies if the NFL is not open for business? Even if more states end social distancing the profession and college teams may balk at returning to play until they feel it's totally safe to gather 80,000 in a stadium. 

  Very interesting that you pop your head out of the hole on this day of all days.  I've long suspected that you are pretty much a modern day Pontius Pilate wannabe.  You are no more concerned about the sanctity of this nation than Pilate was the Jewish religion.  Just as Pilate was acting to keep a movement from tearing the Roman Empire apart you are acting to sway opinion away from what may be helpful for this country in favor of a new world order.  Then Rome.  Today NWO.

[Magox]

1 hour ago, Artful Dodger said:

 

From the Guardian newspaper:  https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/10/less-than-1-of-austria-infected-with-coronavirus-new-study-shows

 

"Less than 1% of the Austrian population is “acutely infected” with coronavirus, new research based on testing a representative sample of more than 1,500 people suggests."

"The research, if replicated and confirmed elsewhere, would appear to scotch hopes of countries being remotely close to relying on “herd immunity” – where enough of the population is exposed to the virus to build up a combined immunity – as a viable policy option."

 

If the same is true for the United States, it means that if we open up in May, the country will be in about the same place it is now, except that hopefully we'll have more masks and ventilators available for the many people who are going to get sick and need to be hospitalized.  Social distancing and shutdowns were never meant to eliminate the virus; they were meant to ensure that we don't all get sick at the same time and overwhelm hospitals.  You can bend the curve, but the curve is still there. 

 

The price for opening up the economy is that a lot of people are going to die.  That's true if we open up in May; it will be true if we open up in July.  It will be true until a vaccine is developed.

 

One major problem with your faulty take.

 

Australia is in the Southern Hemisphere, not only is it in the Southern Hemisphere but it’s way down south.  And not only is it way down south but their population centers are on the southern side.

 

Why do you think this is important?

 

Let me give you a hint, the Southern Hemisphere are not in their flu seasons.  More heat and humidity.  Recorded Infection rates in the Southern Hemisphere are Over 10,000% less than the Northern Hemisphere.
 

You aren’t even comparing apples to oranges but rather apples to turnips 

 

 

 

 

[Artful Dodger]

1 minute ago, Magox said:

 

One major problem with your faulty take.

 

Australia is in the Southern Hemisphere, not only is it in the Southern Hemisphere but it’s way down south.  And not only is it way down south but their population centers are on the southern side.

 

Why do you think this is important?

 

Let me give you a hint, the Southern Hemisphere are not in their flu seasons.  More heat and humidity.  Recorded Infection rates in the Southern Hemisphere are Over 10,000% less than the Northern Hemisphere.
 

You aren’t even comparing apples to oranges but rather apples to turnips 

 

 

 

 

 

Last time I looked, Austria was in Europe. 

[SoCal Deek]

5 minutes ago, Artful Dodger said:

 

Last time I looked, Austria was in Europe. 

Now THIS is funny!  

[Chef Jim]

7 minutes ago, Artful Dodger said:

 

Last time I looked, Austria was in Europe. 

Whoops. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

15 minutes ago, Artful Dodger said:

 

Last time I looked, Austria was in Europe. 

 

...I have a call into Joe Biden to verify.....you may be wrong...he NEVER is...............

[Magox]

8 minutes ago, Artful Dodger said:

 

Last time I looked, Austria was in Europe. 

I misread what you wrote.

 

I was looking at Austria and they have one of the lowest Confirmation infection rates of all of Europe.   So it’s logical to assume that they haven’t developed any sort of herd immunity.

 

Places like Spain, Italy, France, Belgium, New York and other population zones would have considerably higher infection rates.

 

Even in Germany in a small town where their outbreak started there was antibody testing that took place and discovered 15% infection rate.  And Germany has been one of the countries with the lowest infection rates.

 

In regards to opening up, it wouldn’t be a full throttle approach but more of a staggered phasing in based off of geography. 
 

Also another fascinating test case is to see what is happening in Sweden.  They have had a more surgical approach to the social distancing and for weeks now there have been grim predictions regarding what they thought they would go through.  It still hasn’t happened yet.  That could change but they are faring considerably better than most of Europe.

 

 

[Artful Dodger]

1 minute ago, Magox said:

In regards to opening up, it wouldn’t be a full throttle approach but more of a staggered phasing in based off of geography. 

 

Also another fascinating test case is to see what is happening in Sweden.  They have had a more surgical approach to the social distancing and for weeks now there have been grim predictions regarding what they thought they would go through.  It still hasn’t happened yet.  That could change but they are faring considerably better than most of Europe.

 

 

 

I actually agree with you.  If people are going to die anyway, we might has well have a working economy.   We can't all sit around for an entire next year waiting for a vaccine to be developed.   So once we've got enough masks and ventilators and hospital beds, then people should gradually get back to work and practice social distancing as much as possible, recognizing that some people are going to get sick and some will die.  But once you've  had the virus and survived, you've got immunity, and then you can resume living a normal life.

 

I just don't understand why so many people celebrate a plateauing in the number of cases as some kind of major victory.   If you can't leave your home, it's not much of a victory.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

30 minutes ago, Magox said:

I misread what you wrote.

 

I was looking at Austria and they have one of the lowest Confirmation infection rates of all of Europe.   So it’s logical to assume that they haven’t developed any sort of herd immunity.

 

Places like Spain, Italy, France, Belgium, New York and other population zones would have considerably higher infection rates.

 

Even in Germany in a small town where their outbreak started there was antibody testing that took place and discovered 15% infection rate.  And Germany has been one of the countries with the lowest infection rates.

 

In regards to opening up, it wouldn’t be a full throttle approach but more of a staggered phasing in based off of geography. 
 

Also another fascinating test case is to see what is happening in Sweden.  They have had a more surgical approach to the social distancing and for weeks now there have been grim predictions regarding what they thought they would go through.  It still hasn’t happened yet.  That could change but they are faring considerably better than most of Europe.

 

 

 

...certainly understand what you are saying, but FWIW I see more complexity to an individual state's decision, especially if you consider Interstate commerce......does a state SOLEY reopen within the confines of its own borders?.....OR....do they review the situations of neighboring states and allow/disallow those who may not qualify?.....we are a Rochester NY based contractor with operations in PA and NJ.....we are an essential business under NYS guidelines, continuing to operate , but had to shut down PA and NJ operations because there are no such exclusion declarations.....thus we are at the mercy of decisions on a state by state basis......

[Foxx]

31 minutes ago, Artful Dodger said:

 

I actually agree with you.  If people are going to die anyway, we might has well have a working economy.   We can't all sit around for an entire next year waiting for a vaccine to be developed.   So once we've got enough masks and ventilators and hospital beds, then people should gradually get back to work and practice social distancing as much as possible, recognizing that some people are going to get sick and some will die.  But once you've  had the virus and survived, you've got immunity, and then you can resume living a normal life.

 

I just don't understand why so many people celebrate a plateauing in the number of cases as some kind of major victory.   If you can't leave your home, it's not much of a victory.

until it mutates enough to make the vaccine impotent..

[RochesterRob]

9 minutes ago, Foxx said:

until it mutates enough to make the vaccine impotent..

  I believe the release by China was deliberate and meant to cause harm so no doubt the next virus is at some stage of development in their lab and perhaps ready to be released. 

[Magox]

19 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...certainly understand what you are saying, but FWIW I see more complexity to an individual state's decision, especially if you consider Interstate commerce......does a state SOLEY reopen within the confines of its own borders?.....OR....do they review the situations of neighboring states and allow/disallow those who may not qualify?.....we are a Rochester NY based contractor with operations in PA and NJ.....we are an essential business under NYS guidelines, continuing to operate , but had to shut down PA and NJ operations because there are no such exclusion declarations.....thus we are at the mercy of decisions on a state by state basis......

I think each state will have to get specific about how they go about this.   Restricting State by state travel I don’t see in the cards, at least now.  They may do some mandatory quarantining from one state to another in certain circumstances but I think that is as far as it will go at least initially.

 

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 minute ago, Magox said:

I think each state will have to get specific about how they go about this.   Restricting State by state travel I don’t see in the cards, at least now.  They may do some mandatory quarantining from one state to another in certain circumstances but I think that is as far as it will go at least initially.

 

 

 

...have to respectfully disagree...many states already have incoming travel bans/mandatory 14 day quarantine restrictions for folks from NY or NJ as examples......as states slowly reopen, I just do not see those restrictions being lifted anytime soon............

[Magox]

12 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...have to respectfully disagree...many states already have incoming travel bans/mandatory 14 day quarantine restrictions for folks from NY or NJ as examples......as states slowly reopen, I just do not see those restrictions being lifted anytime soon............

That’s what I was saying.  Maybe I didn’t communicate that as well as I could have.  That the mandatory quarantining could be what states do but not actual travel restrictions.  At least not now.

[Foxx]

23 minutes ago, Magox said:

I think each state will have to get specific about how they go about this.   Restricting State by state travel I don’t see in the cards, at least now.  They may do some mandatory quarantining from one state to another in certain circumstances but I think that is as far as it will go at least initially.

 

 

 

 

remind anyone of anything in the past?

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

6 minutes ago, Magox said:

That’s what I was saying.  Maybe I didn’t communicate that as well as I could have.  That the mandatory quarantining could be what states do but not actual travel restrictions.  At least not now.

 

 

....got it............but banning Easter church services in a church parking lot while parishioners stay in their cars is ludicrous......how many people cling to faith as their ONLY hope or salvation?....yet preyed upon by the scums like Osteen, Reverend Ike, TD Jacobs, Rev Creflo, et al?......saw a piece on Texas Metal about "Reverend Romero" and his stable of multiple exotic cars.......THAT swamp is DEEP.....nothing like milking the down trodden...

[Chef Jim]

25 minutes ago, Foxx said:

 

 

remind anyone of anything in the past?

So only people in uniform are essential?   Last I looked people at the grocery store typically don’t wear uniforms. 

[GG]

1 hour ago, Magox said:

I misread what you wrote.

 

I was looking at Austria and they have one of the lowest Confirmation infection rates of all of Europe.   So it’s logical to assume that they haven’t developed any sort of herd immunity.

 

Places like Spain, Italy, France, Belgium, New York and other population zones would have considerably higher infection rates.

 

Even in Germany in a small town where their outbreak started there was antibody testing that took place and discovered 15% infection rate.  And Germany has been one of the countries with the lowest infection rates.

 

In regards to opening up, it wouldn’t be a full throttle approach but more of a staggered phasing in based off of geography. 
 

Also another fascinating test case is to see what is happening in Sweden.  They have had a more surgical approach to the social distancing and for weeks now there have been grim predictions regarding what they thought they would go through.  It still hasn’t happened yet.  That could change but they are faring considerably better than most of Europe.

 

 

 

Climate, culture & custom.

[Magox]

3 minutes ago, GG said:

 

Climate, culture & custom.

It certainly plays a large role.  

[Chef Jim]

32 minutes ago, Foxx said:

 

 

remind anyone of anything in the past?

 

[shoshin]

2 hours ago, Magox said:

 

One major problem with your faulty take.

 

Australia is in the Southern Hemisphere, not only is it in the Southern Hemisphere but it’s way down south.  And not only is it way down south but their population centers are on the southern side.

 

Why do you think this is important?

 

Let me give you a hint, the Southern Hemisphere are not in their flu seasons.  More heat and humidity.  Recorded Infection rates in the Southern Hemisphere are Over 10,000% less than the Northern Hemisphere.
 

You aren’t even comparing apples to oranges but rather apples to turnips 

 

 

 

 

 

The only solution when you take this tone  and look this bad on the internet is seppuku. I wish you an honorable death. 
 

2 hours ago, Magox said:

I

 

In regards to opening up, it wouldn’t be a full throttle approach but more of a staggered phasing in based off of geography. 
 

Also another fascinating test case is to see what is happening in Sweden.  They have had a more surgical approach to the social distancing and for weeks now there have been grim predictions regarding what they thought they would go through.  It still hasn’t happened yet.  That could change but they are faring considerably better than most of Europe.

 

 

Sweden is culturally an anomaly. I will find the number but some incredibly high number of people Live alone there. Plus they have only 3 population centers of note, and a highly educated and compliant with sensible distancing rules population. There will be cultures to emulate coming out of this. Sweden is one to watch. 

 

12 minutes ago, GG said:

 

Climate, culture & custom.

 But I still wonder at India. Sure it’s hot there now as they enter their warm season but they have 1.4 billion people living in each other’s laps. 

Edited April 12, 2020 by shoshin

[ALF]

1 hour ago, RochesterRob said:

  I believe the release by China was deliberate and meant to cause harm so no doubt the next virus is at some stage of development in their lab and perhaps ready to be released. 

 

If China wanted to harm the world it would make more sense to release it far from China.

The one theory was someone from the lab there sold test animals to that market.

[Chef Jim]

1 minute ago, ALF said:

 

If China wanted to harm the world it would make more sense to release it far from China.

The one theory was someone from the lab there sold test animals to that market.

I’m not a conspiracy nut and I don’t believe China release this on purpose but if they did I would not doubt they would take out a few of their own to protect their innocence.  Collateral damage. 

[RochesterRob]

3 minutes ago, ALF said:

 

If China wanted to harm the world it would make more sense to release it far from China.

The one theory was someone from the lab there sold test animals to that market.

  Which they did by releasing into select portions of their population that travel outside of their country among other methods.  Guest workers into Italy and so forth.  Not hard to do for a country that most likely extensively tracks its citizens. 

 

 

 

 

[Foxx]

20 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

i was thinkin' more along the lines of governments historically manipulating their citizens to turn their neighbors in. this is not conspiracy stuff either, it is generally considered proven fact.

Edited April 12, 2020 by Foxx

[RochesterRob]

3 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

I’m not a conspiracy nut and I don’t believe China release this on purpose but if they did I would not doubt they would take out a few of their own to protect their innocence.  Collateral damage. 

  Believing that a country intentionally released a virus does not automatically make one a conspiracy nut akin to believing reptilians control the US government, Bigfoot has retreated to an underground complex hence no recent sightings, auto manufacturers have fuel injection systems that would give SUV's 1000 miles per gallon fuel efficiency but have an interest in oil companies, etc..  China is a competing world power and most likely has a different set of values when it comes to the preservation of human life than most Western nations that were guided by a couple of millennia of Judeo-Christian values.

[3rdnlng]

23 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  Believing that a country intentionally released a virus does not automatically make one a conspiracy nut akin to believing reptilians control the US government, Bigfoot has retreated to an underground complex hence no recent sightings, auto manufacturers have fuel injection systems that would give SUV's 1000 miles per gallon fuel efficiency but have an interest in oil companies, etc..  China is a competing world power and most likely has a different set of values when it comes to the preservation of human life than most Western nations that were guided by a couple of millennia of Judeo-Christian values.

China doesn't need any more people, thus the one baby rule. The CCP is inherently non religious so they have few compunctions about getting rid of people. If they wanted to disrupt the world's economy I doubt that they would have any problems with losing many of their own people in order to reach their goal. Who knows, maybe they think that tanking the U.S. economy might keep Trump from reelection and it would bring in a dufus to deal with them. This might sound far-fetched, but is it really? 

[Magox]

1 hour ago, shoshin said:

 

The only solution when you take this tone  and look this bad on the internet is seppuku. I wish you an honorable death. 
 

Sweden is culturally an anomaly. I will find the number but some incredibly high number of people Live alone there. Plus they have only 3 population centers of note, and a highly educated and compliant with sensible distancing rules population. There will be cultures to emulate coming out of this. Sweden is one to watch. 

 

 But I still wonder at India. Sure it’s hot there now as they enter their warm season but they have 1.4 billion people living in each other’s laps. 

 

It’s not the first time that I misinterpreted things and won’t be the last.  That I promise. 
 

In regards to Sweden, they are somewhat of anomaly but it will be a fascinating case study and it’s still relatively early in the virus process and there could be valuable tidbits to learn from them if indeed they end up managing this well.

[Beast]

I'm in the opinion you just reopen everything at once, not a little at a time.

 

Lets say, for example, New York State opens....but Pennsylvania, Vermont, Ohio, etc., don't. How many cars do you think we will see traveling within our state from those states and others?

 

 

 

 

[123719bwiqrb]

15 minutes ago, Binghamton Beast said:

I'm in the opinion you just reopen everything at once, not a little at a time.

 

Lets say, for example, New York State opens....but Pennsylvania, Vermont, Ohio, etc., don't. How many cars do you think we will see traveling within our state from those states and others?

 

 

 

 

 

If we only had a nation of Karens ready to pounce...

[B-Man]

Rep Crenshaw: ‘It’s Not a Binary Choice’, We Can Fight the Virus and the Economic Downturn at the Same Time

 

 

.

[Boatdrinks]

1 hour ago, Binghamton Beast said:

I'm in the opinion you just reopen everything at once, not a little at a time.

 

Lets say, for example, New York State opens....but Pennsylvania, Vermont, Ohio, etc., don't. How many cars do you think we will see traveling within our state from those states and others?

 

 

 

 

I could see NYC having major restrictions for quite awhile. Most other areas should all be on a similar timeline as you suggest. 

[B-Man]

 

[Boatdrinks]

7 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

The New York Times; the print version of CNN.