There should be a national dialogue in getting back to work

[3rdnlng]

7 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

...because you're trying to rationalize with common sense.......flatly refuse to politicize the decision making process re-opening which should be at the states level....what is the priority of politicians at the top state level and down in making re-opening decisions?.....is the fear factor tempered by their re-election being affected  or the infection/death toll in their state?....which do you think is their priority?.....is there a "wait and see" position as far as "let's see what our neighboring state(s) do ?......a/k/a "who wants to go first?".....

Everyone in business knows that you don't make a firm decision today that can be put off until tomorrow. Make that decision when you have to along with gathering up the most and latest information. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

6 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said:

Everyone in business knows that you don't make a firm decision today that can be put off until tomorrow. Make that decision when you have to along with gathering up the most and latest information. 

 

 

...for 44 years and still going, I have weighed all of the parameters necessary when I have to make a corporate decision......hindsight is a beautiful tool but NOT available at decision making time......have some worked?....yes...have others failed?...of course......have I learned from the ones that failed?.......think I'd still be employed after 44 years if I didn't admit my failures and made necessary corrections going forward?..........

[Deranged Rhino]

 

[B-Man]

White House guidelines for reopening economy

 

PDF here: https://www.scribd.com/document/456756096/White-House-guidelines-for-reopening-economy#from_embed

[B-Man]

 

 

POLITICO: The Shutdown Backlash Is Coming Soon—With a Vengeance: It’s possible to support the stay-at-home order and still deeply resent it.

 

 

Well, especially when the politicians are hypocritical — hello, Lori Lightfoot 

 

— and the rules are nonsensical and ever-stricter — hello, Gretchen Whitmer.

 

 

 

 

OHIO GOVERNOR ANNOUNCES ECONOMIC REOPENING STARTING MAY 1.

 

 

 

 

.

 

.

 

[snafu]

6 hours ago, Koko78 said:

 

I can tell you that as of yesterday, the NY Court shutdown has been extended to May 30 for most matters.

 

I’m wondering if judges are writing orders during this down time to cut into the thick backlog that exists.

If so, will they issue all these backed up orders June 1 (or whenever)?  That’s going to be a nightmare. Lots of appeals filed at the same time. Lots of motions to reargue.  On top of that, there’s probably a ton of complaints just idling on lawyers’ desks right now.  They’re all going to get pushed into the system at the same time.  And the Summer months are usually the quiet months. 

 

[Koko78]

49 minutes ago, snafu said:

 

I’m wondering if judges are writing orders during this down time to cut into the thick backlog that exists.

If so, will they issue all these backed up orders June 1 (or whenever)?  That’s going to be a nightmare. Lots of appeals filed at the same time. Lots of motions to reargue.  On top of that, there’s probably a ton of complaints just idling on lawyers’ desks right now.  They’re all going to get pushed into the system at the same time.  And the Summer months are usually the quiet months. 

 

 

Superior Court/Family Court Judges have been instructed to hold Skype conferences to try and settle cases, decide any pending motions on the papers, etc. on anything that is currently pending (anticipating the flood of new filings.) Basically they have to start with their oldest cases, then move on to whatever can be decided on papers/settled quickly. I feel bad for the clerks who have to process all of the new filings once the ban on new ***** is lifted.

 

Of course, any statutory/regulatory time limits on filings/appeals have been administratively tolled (not quite sure that's legal, but whatever.)

 

Town/Village Courts are going to be even more problematic. They're not allowed to operate at all, or even have clerks come in the office alone, just to catch up on old stuff. Oh, on top of that, they have to keep adjourning things, notifying the litigants/defendants (and any attorneys) of their adjourn dates, using their new notification system, without actually being allowed to come into the office to access their new notification system. The criminal stuff isn't going to be anywhere near as bad as the traffic tickets.

 

If they open the Courts back up in June, I can see the logjam in Justice Courts lasting until September/October. The logjam in Supreme/County/Family/Surrogates Courts are going to last years in the busy counties (Erie, Monroe, NYC, etc.) They may end up needing to create a crapton of Family Court Judge/Judicial Hearing Officer positions for the larger counties. As it is right now, doing a Family Court Trial in NYC can literally take years, as you only get an hour or two (if you're really lucky) set aside for trial every few months. It's going to be worse with a 2+ month backlog, just in intake.

 

On the plus side, the Office of Court Administration is only changing things every few weeks now, instead of every few hours.

[B-Man]

 

 

 We Are Needlessly Devastating Our Country.

 

 

 

.

[Hardhatharry]

 

 

Only an idiot would trust this group...

 

[Hardhatharry]

13 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

Democrats actually have nothing to do with this...

[JetsFan20]

They can re-open the economy, but I personally won’t be going to bars, restaurants (outside of takeout every now and then), airports, gyms, or large gatherings for a while. You realize 20 percent of people under 45 are hospitalized from this thing?

 

F That. People can talk tough all they want until they are a family member ends up in the hospital. 
 

I don’t think the government have any idea the scope of this thing either as nobody has any answers for the lack of testing. 

[JetsFan20]

2 hours ago, B-Man said:

 

 

 We Are Needlessly Devastating Our Country.

 

 

 

.

Yes because closing non-essential business for a couple of months to save thousands of lives constitutes as “needless”.

[shoshin]

19 minutes ago, JetsFan20 said:

You realize 20 percent of people under 45 are hospitalized from this thing?

 

I don’t think the government have any idea the scope of this thing either as nobody has any answers for the lack of testing. 

Your first stat is wrong and your second sentence is one of the reasons why. 
 

And if you are not in an at risk group (obese, respiratory issues, diabetic, asthma, older, being the big ones) or care for someone in that group, your risk is minimal.

 

BUT you should follow the guidelines and wash like a nut, wear a mask, avoid unnecessary crowds,  etc just as a matter of good practice for the foreseeable future. There will be a new normal. 

Edited April 17, 2020 by shoshin

[JetsFan20]

9 minutes ago, shoshin said:

Your first stat is wrong and your second sentence is one of the reasons why. 
 

And if you are not in an at risk group (obese, respiratory issues, diabetic, asthma, older, being the big ones) or care for someone in that group, your risk is minimal.

 

BUT you should follow the guidelines and wash like a nut, wear a mask, avoid unnecessary crowds,  etc just as a matter of good practice for the foreseeable future. There will be a new normal. 

There have been plenty of reported instances of young healthy people getting seriously ill. 
 

I think it’s best to avoid blanket statements about this virus. I don’t think doctors and scientist fully understand it yet. 

Edited April 17, 2020 by JetsFan20

[shoshin]

31 minutes ago, JetsFan20 said:

There have been plenty of reported instances of young healthy people getting seriously ill. 

 

 

The anecdotes make the headlines bu responding to your next point, 

 

31 minutes ago, JetsFan20 said:

 

I think it’s best to avoid blanket statements about this virus. I don’t think doctors and scientist fully understand it yet. 

 

the data don’t lie. 
 

Take a look at any distribution, and they all massively underreport positive outcomes, and U60 with no complications is a very very low risk group. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 hour ago, JetsFan20 said:

Yes because closing non-essential business for a couple of months to save thousands of lives constitutes as “needless”.

 

You realize businesses don't survive without income.

 

You realize those businesses employ people and when those businesses close, those jobs don't return. What then?

 

[SoCal Deek]

3 hours ago, JetsFan20 said:

There have been plenty of reported instances of young healthy people getting seriously ill. 
 

I think it’s best to avoid blanket statements about this virus. I don’t think doctors and scientist fully understand it yet. 

You’re free to react and take whatever precautions you’d like going forward. Nobody is telling you not to. This is a big country though, and the impact (and possibly the strain of the virus) are very different in different regions. Sounds to me you’re in an area where the impact has been significant. I wish you health and better days.

[Koko78]

2 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

You realize businesses don't survive without income.

 

You realize those businesses employ people and when those businesses close, those jobs don't return. What then?

 

 

Well hell man, the government will just pay them. With what? Who cares? Tax revenue declines don't matter. We can just make a 'wealth tax'!

[Foxx]

a good article from sundance over at the CTH. explains why we quite possibly are seeing the push to reopen the economy.

 

AG Secretary Sonny Perdue Discusses Challenges Shifting Food Supply Chains….

The U.S. economy will reopen sooner rather than later specifically because of non-discussed issues in the total U.S. food supply chain.  While government officials have to be very careful in public comments, AG Secretary Sonny Perdue hinted toward the issue today during his remarks at the coronavirus task force briefing.  WATCH:

 

 

The issue is slightly complex; and with two months of manufactured food supply-chain stress; it is now becoming increasingly important to re-open consumer access to the fresh-food side of the aggregate supply chain (ie. restaurants, cafe’s, and food away from home).

 

Most Americans were not aware food consumption in the U.S. was a 55/45 proposition. Approximately 55% of all food was consumed “outside the home” (or food away from home), and 45% of all food consumed was food “inside the home” (grocery shoppers).

 

 

Food ‘outside the home’ included: restaurants, fast-food locales, schools, corporate cafeterias, university lunchrooms, manufacturing cafeterias, hotels, food trucks, park and amusement food sellers and many more. Many of those venues are not thought about when people evaluate the overall U.S. food delivery system; however, this network was approximately 55 percent of all food consumption on a daily basis.

 

The ‘food away from home‘ sector has its own supply chain. Very few restaurants and venues (cited above) purchase food products from retail grocery outlets. As a result of the coronavirus mitigation effort the ‘food away from home’ sector has been reduced by 75% of daily food delivery operations. However, people still need to eat. That means retail food outlets, grocers, are seeing sales increases of 25 to 50 percent, depending on the area.

 

•Phase One was retail. •Phase two was distribution. •Phase three was the space between processing/manufacturing and distribution. •Phase four was raw material supply to manufacturing. •Phase five is consumer packaging capacity, and bulk storage inventories.

 

This is the phase where Secretary Sonny Perdue starts getting concerned…

 

♦ Phase Five – The retail consumer supply chain for manufactured and processed food products includes bulk storage to compensate for seasonality. As Agriculture Secretary Sonny Perdue recently noted “there are over 800 commercial and public warehouses in the continental 48 states that store frozen products.”

 

Here is a snapshot of the food we had in storage at the end of February: over 302 million pounds of frozen butter; 1.36 billion pounds of frozen cheese; 925 million pounds of frozen chicken; over 1 billion pounds of frozen fruit; nearly 2.04 billion pounds of frozen vegetables; 491 million pounds of frozen beef; and nearly 662 million pounds of frozen pork.

 

This bulk food storage is how the total U.S. consumer food supply ensures consistent availability even with weather impacts.  As a nation we essentially stay one harvest ahead of demand by storing it and smoothing out any peak/valley shortfalls. There are a total of 175,642 commercial facilities involved in this supply-chain across the country

 

Few Americans are aware of this.  However, that stored-food-supply is the supply-chain for food manufacturers who process the ingredients into a variety of branded food products and distribute to your local supermarket.

 

That bulk stored food, and the subsequent supply chain, is entirely separate from the commercial fresh food supply chain used by restaurants, hotels, cafeterias etc.  For almost 8 weeks the retail consumer supply chain has been operating beyond capacity and the burn rate of raw food products is up a stunning 40 percent.

 

Those bulk warehouses, the feeder pools for retail/consumer manufactured food products, are starting to run low.

 

Believe me: (1) we don’t want to find out what happens when those 800 mass storage facilities run out; and (2) the food supply chain will be a big part of President Trump’s decision-making on reopening the economy thereby re-opening restaurants, cafeterias, etc…. and switching consumption back to fresh supply.

 

This “bigger picture” is not being considered by politically-minded governors, DC politicians, and public health-centric advisors who focus exclusively on the virus.

 

Additionally, there are very specific issues within each supply chain (commercial and consumer). It is not as easy as people think to move the commercial supply-chain (restaurants etc.) into the consumer supply chain (grocers). First, there are simply packaging capacity issues.  Additionally, there’s an entirely different set of regulations on the processing side for the consumer supply chain. ...

 

[Buffalo_Gal]

I don't want to quote that long post, @Foxx but yes, if you (generic you) listened to Sonny Perdue on Wednesday, it was clearly one of the reasons the country needed to reopen. There have been a few articles alluding to issues within the food supply chain over the last few weeks, and I "think" it started with the milk dumpers.  Greg Gutfield on The Five (shesh, I have never watched so much TV as waiting for the pressers to start) has been making comments about this for the last few weeks that we don't have cross-over, how the supply chains work, etc. For all I know Fox has done a few segments on this (no idea, I don't watch), but it is a concern.

This was also the day Trump was pissed off about his appointments still languishing after 3 years, and one was for the Undersecretary of Food. This was when he threatened to adjourn Congress (to make recess appointments is my guess).

The Democrats really do not care about the people. Anything to obstruct Trump, and if people die or starve? Eh, so what?

 

[shoshin]

As an update on one business's trek through the PPP process. After filling out many forms, changing the number we could request several times (all downwards), my business got funded today. It's a minimal amount but along with all the squeezing we've already done, it should help us stay afloat for 2 more weeks than we otherwise would have. 

[B-Man]

 

 

SHOT: Reopen California? That’s the toughest phase yet, Newsom says.

—CalMatters, Wednesday.

 

 

Chaser:

 

 

Related: Freedom Is Starting to Break Out.

 

 

 

 

.

[B-Man]

 

 

TRUMP GIVES GOVERNORS THREE-PHASE PLAN TO REOPEN ECONOMY.

 

 

 

 

.

[Albwan]

8 hours ago, Hardhatharry said:

Democrats actually have nothing to do with this...

https://legalinsurrection.com/2020/04/payroll-protection-program-out-of-money-as-nancy-pelosi-still-demands-additional-unrelated-spending/

Actually, they do.

Edited April 17, 2020 by Albwan

[RochesterRob]

1 hour ago, Foxx said:

a good article from sundance over at the CTH. explains why we quite possibly are seeing the push to reopen the economy.

 

AG Secretary Sonny Perdue Discusses Challenges Shifting Food Supply Chains….

The U.S. economy will reopen sooner rather than later specifically because of non-discussed issues in the total U.S. food supply chain.  While government officials have to be very careful in public comments, AG Secretary Sonny Perdue hinted toward the issue today during his remarks at the coronavirus task force briefing.  WATCH:

 

 

The issue is slightly complex; and with two months of manufactured food supply-chain stress; it is now becoming increasingly important to re-open consumer access to the fresh-food side of the aggregate supply chain (ie. restaurants, cafe’s, and food away from home).

 

Most Americans were not aware food consumption in the U.S. was a 55/45 proposition. Approximately 55% of all food was consumed “outside the home” (or food away from home), and 45% of all food consumed was food “inside the home” (grocery shoppers).

 

 

Food ‘outside the home’ included: restaurants, fast-food locales, schools, corporate cafeterias, university lunchrooms, manufacturing cafeterias, hotels, food trucks, park and amusement food sellers and many more. Many of those venues are not thought about when people evaluate the overall U.S. food delivery system; however, this network was approximately 55 percent of all food consumption on a daily basis.

 

The ‘food away from home‘ sector has its own supply chain. Very few restaurants and venues (cited above) purchase food products from retail grocery outlets. As a result of the coronavirus mitigation effort the ‘food away from home’ sector has been reduced by 75% of daily food delivery operations. However, people still need to eat. That means retail food outlets, grocers, are seeing sales increases of 25 to 50 percent, depending on the area.

 

•Phase One was retail. •Phase two was distribution. •Phase three was the space between processing/manufacturing and distribution. •Phase four was raw material supply to manufacturing. •Phase five is consumer packaging capacity, and bulk storage inventories.

 

This is the phase where Secretary Sonny Perdue starts getting concerned…

 

♦ Phase Five – The retail consumer supply chain for manufactured and processed food products includes bulk storage to compensate for seasonality. As Agriculture Secretary Sonny Perdue recently noted “there are over 800 commercial and public warehouses in the continental 48 states that store frozen products.”

 

Here is a snapshot of the food we had in storage at the end of February: over 302 million pounds of frozen butter; 1.36 billion pounds of frozen cheese; 925 million pounds of frozen chicken; over 1 billion pounds of frozen fruit; nearly 2.04 billion pounds of frozen vegetables; 491 million pounds of frozen beef; and nearly 662 million pounds of frozen pork.

 

This bulk food storage is how the total U.S. consumer food supply ensures consistent availability even with weather impacts.  As a nation we essentially stay one harvest ahead of demand by storing it and smoothing out any peak/valley shortfalls. There are a total of 175,642 commercial facilities involved in this supply-chain across the country

 

Few Americans are aware of this.  However, that stored-food-supply is the supply-chain for food manufacturers who process the ingredients into a variety of branded food products and distribute to your local supermarket.

 

That bulk stored food, and the subsequent supply chain, is entirely separate from the commercial fresh food supply chain used by restaurants, hotels, cafeterias etc.  For almost 8 weeks the retail consumer supply chain has been operating beyond capacity and the burn rate of raw food products is up a stunning 40 percent.

 

Those bulk warehouses, the feeder pools for retail/consumer manufactured food products, are starting to run low.

 

Believe me: (1) we don’t want to find out what happens when those 800 mass storage facilities run out; and (2) the food supply chain will be a big part of President Trump’s decision-making on reopening the economy thereby re-opening restaurants, cafeterias, etc…. and switching consumption back to fresh supply.

 

This “bigger picture” is not being considered by politically-minded governors, DC politicians, and public health-centric advisors who focus exclusively on the virus.

 

Additionally, there are very specific issues within each supply chain (commercial and consumer). It is not as easy as people think to move the commercial supply-chain (restaurants etc.) into the consumer supply chain (grocers). First, there are simply packaging capacity issues.  Additionally, there’s an entirely different set of regulations on the processing side for the consumer supply chain. ...

 

  Another aspect of the economy that most self proclaimed "experts" know next to nothing about.

[Koko78]

34 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

SHOT: Reopen California? That’s the toughest phase yet, Newsom says.

—CalMatters, Wednesday.

 

 

Chaser:

 

 

Related: Freedom Is Starting to Break Out.

 

These idiots somehow forgot that this is still America (and have learned nothing from history.) We will put up with temporary restrictions for a time, but eventually we're always going to rebel against oppressive measures.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

10 minutes ago, Koko78 said:

 

These idiots somehow forgot that this is still America (and have learned nothing from history.) We will put up with temporary restrictions for a time, but eventually we're always going to rebel against oppressive measures.

 

...unfortunately this is just the beginning......once the "cabin fever revolt" starts, it will snowball...…...

[B-Man]

 Vegas Mayor: Shutdown ‘Total Insanity,’ ‘Makes No Sense’; ‘We Must Open’ Now

 

https://www.dailywire.com/news/watch-vegas-mayor-shutdown-total-insanity-makes-no-sense-we-must-open-now?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=dwbrand

 

 

.

[KRC]

2 hours ago, Koko78 said:

 

Well hell man, the government will just pay them. With what? Who cares? Tax revenue declines don't matter. We can just make a 'wealth tax'!

 

Tax the rich!! It solves everything!!

[Koko78]

21 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...unfortunately this is just the beginning......once the "cabin fever revolt" starts, it will snowball...…...

 

I see it starting in either Michigan or Virginia. They seem to be the most asinine about instituting arbitrary policies.

 

As much of a piece of crap Cuomo is, he's not going too far off the deep end (though I have no intention of following his forced mask policy - a thin cloth covering does little-to-nothing to prevent transmission.)

4 minutes ago, KRC said:

 

Tax the rich!! It solves everything!!

 

You're correct, of course. We'll most likely have to squeeze them for 500% of their total wealth in taxes (we still have to pay for the Green New Deal and free healthcare for everyone, after all.)

[KRC]

4 minutes ago, Koko78 said:

 

You're correct, of course. We'll most likely have to squeeze them for 500% of their total wealth in taxes (we still have to pay for the Green New Deal and free healthcare for everyone, after all.)

 

500% is a little light for everything. You did not mention student loan forgiveness. Taxing the top 1% at a 100% tax rate is not enough to pay for just that program. Now, add in free college and free everything else.

[Koko78]

5 minutes ago, KRC said:

 

500% is a little light for everything. You did not mention student loan forgiveness. Taxing the top 1% at a 100% tax rate is not enough to pay for just that program. Now, add in free college and free everything else.

 

Eh, student loan forgiveness is mere pocket change. The Federal Reserve can just print some more money to cover that.

[KRC]

3 minutes ago, Koko78 said:

 

Eh, student loan forgiveness is mere pocket change. The Federal Reserve can just print some more money to cover that.

 

Or, just take it from the money tree outside of the Capital Building.

[Buffalo_Gal]

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

...the dam is bursting...………..

 

Rallies to reopen economy spread across country as officials urge caution to prevent coronavirus resurgence

By Tyler Olson | Fox News

 

A growing wave of rallies are taking place across the country as protesters demand that state governments lift their orders closing businesses and public places as soon as possible, even as officials urge caution to prevent a resurgence of coronavirus.

These Americans say they are suffering because of the economic shutdowns nationwide to reduce the spread of the coronavirus and are antsy to resume working and going out in public as usual.

The movement, which started with demonstrations in North Carolina and Michigan, has now spread to New York, Ohio, Virginia and Kentucky with more protests slated for the coming days even as federal and state officials are warning that rolling back virus mitigations efforts too soon will lead to even more coronavirus cases and set back the nation's response to the pandemic.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/rallies-to-reopen-economy-spread-across-country-as-officials-urge-caution-to-prevent-coronavirus-resurgence

 

[shoshin]

39 minutes ago, Koko78 said:

 

I see it starting in either Michigan or Virginia. They seem to be the most asinine about instituting arbitrary policies.

 

As much of a piece of crap Cuomo is, he's not going too far off the deep end (though I have no intention of following his forced mask policy - a thin cloth covering does little-to-nothing to prevent transmission.)

 

 

 

Yes it does and you should wear the mask. 

 

These rallies are idiotic. The opening needs to be done very carefully but it can be done in a way that works over the course of the next 2-3 months. 

Edited April 17, 2020 by shoshin

[Koko78]

11 minutes ago, shoshin said:

 

Yes it does and you should wear the mask. 

 

These rallies are idiotic. The opening needs to be done very carefully but it can be done in a way that works over the course of the next 2-3 months. 

 

A cloth mask/bandana will catch exhaled/expelled water droplets (containing the virus), not the tiny virus itself. Nothing short of a N-95 type mask will prevent airborne transmission.

[Deranged Rhino]

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

6 minutes ago, shoshin said:

 

Yes it does and you should wear the mask. 

 

These rallies are idiotic. The opening needs to be done very carefully but it can be done in a way that works over the course of the next 2-3 months. 

 

...social IRRESPONSIBILITY has been growing exponentially for years......look at the "it's a hoax......Spring Break anyhow....Mardi Gras time regardless....et al" gang; …...it is repulsive to hear how retailers are being ripped off with store thefts...…..reminds me of the dark days in the 60's regarding looting...….so I agree with your assessment regarding rallies, but rest assured a component will surely be the socially responsible....certainly opening needs to be done carefully, but I fear there will be a "mad rush for the doors" similar to the start of Black Friday shopping......sure hope I'm dead wrong...…...

[Buffalo_Gal]

1 minute ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

I think he was going to veto their override... did he? This is the last I read.