There should be a national dialogue in getting back to work

[BillZtime]

37 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said:

Trump's daughter and husband volunteer at the WH. OMG, Trump's sons do foreign business. Can you list what business they do? Trump's daughter gets Chinese patents and Saudi grants. Can you be more specific? Memes can be fun but if they're not truthful, they're lies.

 

Awe, such a triggered Trumphole. Why do volunteers need full security clearances?

 

Truth hurts - it's fun watching you squirm when presented with inconvenient facts YOU DON'T LIKE!

[3rdnlng]

1 minute ago, BillZtime said:

 

Awe, such a triggered Trumphole. Why do volunteers need full security clearances?

 

Truth hurts - it's fun watching you squirm when presented with inconvenient facts YOU DON'T LIKE!

Volunteer status has to do with whether a person is getting paid, not with the type of work they may be doing. I didn't think I'd have to explain that to even you. 

 

So, your meme presented facts?

[BillZtime]

Just now, 3rdnlng said:

So, your meme presented facts?

 

Indisputable.

 

[3rdnlng]

1 minute ago, BillZtime said:

 

Indisputable.

 

You should wear the dunce cap at the kiddie table and not be allowed to post here until you grow up. 

[Chef Jim]

1 hour ago, shoshin said:

They do when the governor of Mass keeps his state open for two weeks after NY closes. 
 

 

No it sounds like it’s an issue with the state of Massachusetts. 

[Buffalo_Gal]

4 hours ago, Magox said:

Today’s briefer is going to be something else ?

Well, aren't you psychic. Quick, gimmie tomorrow's lotto numbers!

 

[shoshin]

28 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

No it sounds like it’s an issue with the state of Massachusetts. 

No, it’s a national issue. Trump recognizes this in his statements today, which is good. Either that pressures in the states to act smarter or the feds will take the process over like the feds can legally do, as is clear from precedent and the 5th Circuit case this week. 

[Magox]

Trump is going to need to backtrack in his own way about this "Total" control statement he made.  As I have been saying since the beginning of this thread, the Federal Government can only provide federal guidance, which has a lot of weight but it's guidance none the less.   It's up to the state to lift the stay-at-home orders, then the companies to open up shop and ultimately up to the employees to show up to work.

 

That was an unforced error on Trump's part.  Probably needs to backtrack in his own way relatively soon.  The Libertarian minded people's support who are inclined to back him will erode with this approach.  

 

Trump was already beginning to backtrack during the presser but if he continues with this "total" control issue, it will backfire.

[Buffalo_Gal]

4 minutes ago, Magox said:

Trump is going to need to backtrack in his own way about this "Total" control statement he made.  As I have been saying since the beginning of this thread, the Federal Government can only provide federal guidance, which has a lot of weight but it's guidance none the less.   It's up to the state to lift the stay-at-home orders, then the companies to open up shop and ultimately up to the employees to show up to work.

 

That was an unforced error on Trump's part.  Probably needs to backtrack in his own way relatively soon.  The Libertarian minded people's support who are inclined to back him will erode with this approach.  

 

Trump was already beginning to backtrack during the presser but if he continues with this "total" control issue, it will backfire.

National emergencies act and there is now a declared disaster in all 50 states.

I "think" (as I cannot know) that he "backtracked" so it would be congenial. Sorta like the national defense act. First he asked politely, then when some companies ignored the request, he brought it to bear.

 

Edited April 14, 2020 by Buffalo_Gal

[Magox]

Just now, Buffalo_Gal said:

National emergencies act and there is now a declared disaster in all 50 states. 

 

 

If he didn't use it to shut down the country and left it up to the states to do so, then using it to open it up would be entirely inconsistent with his policies.  If it got that far, the lawsuits would be coming out and his support would crater.   

 

It's ok to not agree with everything the president does.  

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, Magox said:

 

If he didn't use it to shut down the country and left it up to the states to do so, then using it to open it up would be entirely inconsistent with his policies.  If it got that far, the lawsuits would be coming out and his support would crater.   

 

It's ok to not agree with everything the president does.  

It's way more complicated than the partisan issue that you're so desperately hunting for.  This is also an interstate commerce issue.  Opening up the country is going to be a really tricky thing.

[Boatdrinks]

3 minutes ago, Magox said:

Trump is going to need to backtrack in his own way about this "Total" control statement he made.  As I have been saying since the beginning of this thread, the Federal Government can only provide federal guidance, which has a lot of weight but it's guidance none the less.   It's up to the state to lift the stay-at-home orders, then the companies to open up shop and ultimately up to the employees to show up to work.

 

That was an unforced error on Trump's part.  Probably needs to backtrack in his own way relatively soon.  The Libertarian minded people's support who are inclined to back him will erode with this approach.  

 

Trump was already beginning to backtrack during the presser but if he continues with this "total" control issue, it will backfire.

If you lean even slightly libertarian, you’re  likely not happy with the heavy handed approach of the coalition of Leftist Governors. Trump’s statement in this case won’t be viewed so negatively. The LSM here in New York has been bombarding us with messages about how high Cuomo’s approval rating is. The real answer is it depends who you ask. I think Trump knew exactly what he was doing with his statement. 

[Magox]

Just now, SoCal Deek said:

It's way more complicated than the partisan issue that you're so desperately hunting for.  This is also an interstate commerce issue.  Opening up the country is going to be a really tricky thing.

 

Partisan issue that I'm desperately hunting for???

 

You should hope that the Trump doesn't even entertain such an idea.

[Buffalo_Gal]

Just now, Magox said:

 

If he didn't use it to shut down the country and left it up to the states to do so, then using it to open it up would be entirely inconsistent with his policies.  If it got that far, the lawsuits would be coming out and his support would crater.   

 

It's ok to not agree with everything the president does.  

All 50 states did not have a declared emergency. I believe (you can check the dates) that this happened 2 or 3 days ago. Wyoming was the last state.

Boy, oh boy, "It's ok to not agree with everything the president does." you have absolutely no idea how wrong you are. Let's just say that I do not care for how this has been handled, and am in the "overblown" crowd. I have said before that I only hesitate in my stance because ¾ of the world has shut their borders. It makes me wonder what TPTB know that the general populous has not been told.

 

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, Magox said:

 

Partisan issue that I'm desperately hunting for???

 

You should hope that the Trump doesn't even entertain such an idea.

What idea exactly?  This is really very complicated.  I think you'll admit that it's far easier to shut everything down than it is to reopen them.

[Magox]

2 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

If you lean even slightly libertarian, you’re  likely not happy with the heavy handed approach of the coalition of Leftist Governors. Trump’s statement in this case won’t be viewed so negatively. The LSM here in New York has been bombarding us with messages about how high Cuomo’s approval rating is. The real answer is it depends who you ask. I think Trump knew exactly what he was doing with his statement. 

 

Trump actually made the case to not shut down each particular states and cited "Federalism" and the "constitution".   You remember that, right?

 

That came out of his mouth on multiple occasions.  Now he is saying he has "total control".

 

Let's just at least agree that he is not consistent with what he says. 

 

 

As I said earlier, it's ok to not agree with what the person you support 100% or 90% of the time or even most of the time.   Just shows that we have the ability to have a position that we believe in and that in this particular circumstance we disagree with the person you support.

 

5 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

What idea exactly?  This is really very complicated.  I think you'll admit that it's far easier to shut everything down than it is to reopen them.

 

I think we all know that he's not going to "open" things up.  This was just his narcissism speaking, he wants to be the one who says that the country is open for business. He wants the credit for it and when he saw Cuomo making this power move of gathering all the North Eastern governors, he lashed out and made this statement of "total" control.  Or that he has the authority to do so.   He will back off of this in his own way.  

[SoCal Deek]

3 minutes ago, Magox said:

 

I think we all know that he's not going to "open" things up.  This was just his narcissism speaking, he wants to be the one who says that the country is open for business. He wants the credit for it and when he saw Cuomo making this power move of gathering all the North Eastern governors, he lashed out and made this statement of "total" control.  Or that he has the authority to do so.   He will back off of this in his own way.  

All I can say is "wow".  You're thinking about this stuff way more than the actual people charged with thinking about it are.  Do us all a favor, and never run for office!

[Magox]

Just now, SoCal Deek said:

All I can say is "wow".  You're thinking about this stuff way more than the actual people charged with thinking about it are.  Do us all a favor, and never run for office!

 

Huh?  

[SoCal Deek]

Just now, Magox said:

 

Huh?  

Exactly....huh? 

[Warren Zevon]

2 minutes ago, Magox said:

 

Huh?  

 

Deek is a moron

[Boatdrinks]

10 minutes ago, Magox said:

 

Trump actually made the case to not shut down each particular states and cited "Federalism" and the "constitution".   You remember that, right?

 

That came out of his mouth on multiple occasions.  Now he is saying he has "total control".

 

Let's just at least agree that he is not consistent with what he says. 

 

 

As I said earlier, it's ok to not agree with what the person you support 100% or 90% of the time or even most of the time.   Just shows that we have the ability to have a position that we believe in and that in this particular circumstance we disagree with the person you support.

 

 

I think we all know that he's not going to "open" things up.  This was just his narcissism speaking, he wants to be the one who says that the country is open for business. He wants the credit for it and when he saw Cuomo making this power move of gathering all the North Eastern governors, he lashed out and made this statement of "total" control.  Or that he has the authority to do so.   He will back off of this in his own way.  

I don’t disagree with his message. Yes, it is directed at the Governors and I have doubts he will actually take action. But he’s sending a message and I absolutely don’t disagree with it. He’s making a point. You don’t care for his style, but I do. 

Edited April 14, 2020 by Boatdrinks

[shoshin]

17 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

All 50 states did not have a declared emergency. I believe (you can check the dates) that this happened 2 or 3 days ago. Wyoming was the last state.

Boy, oh boy, "It's ok to not agree with everything the president does." you have absolutely no idea how wrong you are. Let's just say that I do not care for how this has been handled, and am in the "overblown" crowd. I have said before that I only hesitate in my stance because ¾ of the world has shut their borders. It makes me wonder what TPTB know that the general populous has not been told.

 

 

We peaked at 2000 dead/day with shutdowns. Safe to say it would have been a lot more without. I'm not sure what more you'd need to know from the dread Powers That Be. 

[SoCal Deek]

3 minutes ago, Warren Zevon said:

 

Deek is a moron

Thank you.....I'll take that as a compliment coming from the Trump-denier crowd.

[Taro T]

7 minutes ago, Magox said:

 

Trump actually made the case to not shut down each particular states and cited "Federalism" and the "constitution".   You remember that, right?

 

That came out of his mouth on multiple occasions.  Now he is saying he has "total control".

 

Let's just at least agree that he is not consistent with what he says. 

 

 

As I said earlier, it's ok to not agree with what the person you support 100% or 90% of the time or even most of the time.   Just shows that we have the ability to have a position that we believe in and that in this particular circumstance we disagree with the person you support.

 

 

I think we all know that he's not going to "open" things up.  This was just his narcissism speaking, he wants to be the one who says that the country is open for business. He wants the credit for it and when he saw Cuomo making this power move of gathering all the North Eastern governors, he lashed out and made this statement of "total" control.  Or that he has the authority to do so.   He will back off of this in his own way.  

 

If 45 tries to be the person deciding how/ when individual states will ACTUALLY be allowed to reopen; then will decry his actions right there with you.

 

If, what comes from the administration is guidelines on how to do that, won't have any issue as that's what should happen.

 

Rarely get worked up over his words, but do cringe a lot.  Fortunately, for all of us, his actual actions have been far less cringeworthy and a lot have been beneficial over the past 3 years (generalizing beyond just this issue/ set of issues).

[Magox]

Just now, Boatdrinks said:

I don’t disagree with his message. Yes, it is directed at the Governors and I have doubts he will actually take action. But he’s sending a message and I absolutely don’t disagree with it. He’s making a point. 

 

That's fine.  Ultimately it will just end up being an unforced utterance that he often times does.  We are on a political board, and we comment on these things on a play-by-play basis, that's what is done here.  I have not hidden the fact that I am not a fan of how he communicates some things.  I like his actions for the most part, I like the way he slaps down the media but there are things that I dislike about him.  

 

As I was saying, he's not going to take action.  This was just his ego speaking.  He saw Cuomo making a power play and he reacted.  And he reacted in an unflattering way in regards to this "total control" issue. There are plenty of conservatives and libertarians who are not in agreement with this statement and I'm sure that his advisers including Meadows are telling him, to back off this in his own way.  

 

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, Taro T said:

 

If 45 tries to be the person deciding how/ when individual states will ACTUALLY be allowed to reopen; then will decry his actions right there with you.

 

If, what comes from the administration is guidelines on how to do that, won't have any issue as that's what should happen.

 

Rarely get worked up over his words, but do cringe a lot.  Fortunately, for all of us, his actual actions have been far less cringeworthy and a lot have been beneficial over the past 3 years (generalizing beyond just this issue/ set of issues).

 

Pretty much what I believe.   He won't do anything about it.  It was just a stupid thing that he said..   

[Buffalo_Gal]

National Emergencies Act. Stafford Act. Presidential Emergency Actions Documents.   Look them up... well, as far as you can. Apparently, some powers are classified. (Isn't that scary?)

What the president has the ability to do, and what he eventually does may well be two different things. But, there is no question that these acts give him the final say when a disaster is national.
 

Edited April 14, 2020 by Buffalo_Gal
f-ing autocorrect

[Boatdrinks]

19 minutes ago, shoshin said:

 

We peaked at 2000 dead/day with shutdowns. Safe to say it would have been a lot more without. I'm not sure what more you'd need to know from the dread Powers That Be. 

Mostly in NYC and perhaps one or two other areas. The impact of the virus has been much greater in just a few states/ cities. That cannot be ignored. 

[Albwan]

The left worship Trump. They are in denial. C'mon they listen like sheeple to every word

he says. Without him, the left and media have zilch. The irony really is hysterical.

[shoshin]

9 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Mostly in NYC and perhaps one or two other areas. The impact of the virus has been much greater in just a few states/ cities. That cannot be ignored. 

 

We definitely have had thus far an NYC Metro-driven case and death problem.

 

The other areas were somewhat spared by the shutdowns. 

[Boatdrinks]

1 minute ago, shoshin said:

 

We definitely have had thus far an NYC Metro-driven case and death problem.

 

The other areas were somewhat spared by the shutdowns. 

NYC was shutdown also. They don’t appear to have been spared at all. The lockdowns probably helped somewhat, but the degree could vary widely. Anyway, we’re just going to have to unshackle the country sooner than later. It seems the Coalition of Governors are trying to shield themselves from individual criticism by taking a vastly regional approach. 

7 minutes ago, Albwan said:

The left worship Trump. They are in denial. C'mon they listen like sheeple to every word

he says. Without him, the left and media have zilch. The irony really is hysterical.

True. I never listened directly to much that the Obaminator had to say. Lefties hang on every word, getting massively triggered by the minute. Weird way to live. 

[GG]

On his presser today, Cuomo broadly outlined some of the criteria they're looking at for allowing people back to work.   The tri-state (CT, NJ, NY)will open together, and only for people who've tested for anti-bodies.  Another option is to only allow "younger" people back.   No more details provided, but a clue into what the 3 Govs are talking about.

[shoshin]

1 minute ago, GG said:

On his presser today, Cuomo broadly outlined some of the criteria they're looking at for allowing people back to work.   The tri-state (CT, NJ, NY)will open together, and only for people who've tested for anti-bodies.  Another option is to only allow "younger" people back.   No more details provided, but a clue into what the 3 Govs are talking about.

 

That's vague and I don't think he will stick with that. South/Central Jersey and Upstate/WNY are not the same as NYC in cases (same with eastern CT). And "only for people who've tested for anitbodies" will be too small of a group to make a difference economically. 

 

Metro NY needs to be the most careful in how it opens. 

 

Agree that allowing younger people back sooner makes the most sense. In Europe, they are even allowing schools back before other workplaces. The thinking being that you can't restart the economy while kids are home all day. And while they can carry, they are largely unharmed by the virus. 

[Koko78]

1 hour ago, Boatdrinks said:

If you lean even slightly libertarian, you’re  likely not happy with the heavy handed approach of the coalition of Leftist Governors. Trump’s statement in this case won’t be viewed so negatively. The LSM here in New York has been bombarding us with messages about how high Cuomo’s approval rating is. The real answer is it depends who you ask. I think Trump knew exactly what he was doing with his statement. 

 

Makes me wonder if he's trying to provide motivation for the states (especially Democrat-controlled states) to end their emergency declarations sooner, rather than later.

[shoshin]

30 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

 It seems the Coalition of Governors are trying to shield themselves from individual criticism by taking a vastly regional approach. 

 

 

And because the feds won't take control, they know that they have to act together or it's a moot point how any single state deals with it. NJ can't be closed and have much benefit if NYS is open for business. The the "no peeing" section of the swimming pool theory. A national plan is best and makes the most sense but barring that, regional coalitions make sense. 

[RochesterRob]

5 minutes ago, shoshin said:

 

That's vague and I don't think he will stick with that. South/Central Jersey and Upstate/WNY are not the same as NYC in cases (same with eastern CT). And "only for people who've tested for anitbodies" will be too small of a group to make a difference economically. 

 

Metro NY needs to be the most careful in how it opens. 

 

Agree that allowing younger people back sooner makes the most sense. In Europe, they are even allowing schools back before other workplaces. The thinking being that you can't restart the economy while kids are home all day. And while they can carry, they are largely unharmed by the virus. 

  Just not hearing any talk of reopening schools at this point which makes me stick to the notion that Cuomo will ultimately punt May away.  

[shoshin]

Just now, RochesterRob said:

  Just not hearing any talk of reopening schools at this point which makes me stick to the notion that Cuomo will ultimately punt May away.  

 

Sorry I was not clear. I don't think any US kid is going back to normal school until the fall. I was merely noting how other countries are sending kids back first. Plus there is the question of day cares and camps in the summer here. If every kid is staying home, even the parents who want to work can't work. 

[RochesterRob]

1 minute ago, shoshin said:

 

Sorry I was not clear. I don't think any US kid is going back to normal school until the fall. I was merely noting how other countries are sending kids back first. Plus there is the question of day cares and camps in the summer here. If every kid is staying home, even the parents who want to work can't work. 

  There are parents of school age kids that are working now.  Go to any WNY community and you will see 30-50 year old people who are working the counters of Seven-eleven's, McD's, local home improvement stores, etc. this very minute.  That is why Cuomo's approach is somewhat illogical.  I understand that schools are a focal point in terms of preventing the spread of the virus but for Cuomo to think that schools need to be open for parents to work is flawed.  

[Buffalo_Gal]

14 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  Just not hearing any talk of reopening schools at this point which makes me stick to the notion that Cuomo will ultimately punt May away.  

Cuomo was talking about opening the schools the other day. Did he back off on that? 
 

[B-Man]

1 minute ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

Cuomo was talking about opening the schools the other day. Did he back off on that? 
 

 

 

Yes.

 

My son (teacher) says that he still won't say that the school year is cancelled...........(he was pissed when NYC said that)

 

But he won't go more than two weeks out.

 

Do they are saying April 29th ...............even though no one believes it.

 

 

.

[RochesterRob]

Just now, Buffalo_Gal said:

Cuomo was talking about opening the schools the other day. Did he back off on that? 
 

  I don't know and he could very well have said so as I do not see all the Cuomo related news segments.  Anything that I have seen does not support the schools opening back up right away.  I'll try to make a point of catching the local news tonight.