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CBS compares Bills to Bears

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9 minutes ago, Z-Mann said:

 

Fair statement.  I also feel like it's fair to say that both defenses did something that is tough to sustain...that is, the Bears with their turnovers and the Bills with their health...

I’ll take peoples healthy and good depth over the way a ball bounces.

Edited by atlbillsfan1975
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12 hours ago, Hebert19 said:

I've said this for 2 years.   We have been just like them.  Difference is they didnt have 90M and a bunch of picks going into his 3rd year.  They traded away all their picks for mack and to trade up for him and couldn't spend big in FA.  Year 3 will be different because the team will be better and wont be just praying allen carries them. 

 

I remember this time last year comparisons to the Bears were seen as favorable.

 

I know many are down on Mitchell, but he did throw for more yards at a much high completion percentage this year than did our boy.  Very comparable in TD/Int.

 

If the team struggles next year due to a harder schedule or whatever and Josh doesn't carry us, he's the new whipping boy.  Just the way it works.

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22 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

That is a lame comment.... Beane also excused himself for having a ***** offense for 3 years in a row by excusing himself from that 2017 season. 

 

I question their judgement offensively. This offseason and next season will tell all about these guys going forward.

Yep - Huge year fro McD, Beane, Allen.

 

If they have a tough year with similar look - good defense, inconsistent offense, inability to beat good teams, etc then you have to question the approach. Not saying that means they all go, just that you have to really evaluate if they can win and what changes are needed to get there. 

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3 minutes ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

I’ll take people healthy and good depth over the way a ball bounces.

 

The JA better clean up that fumbling problem, because a lot of his fumbles bounced the right way for us to recover.  He was third among QB's in fumbles in 2019 with 14.  From the top 25 fumbling QB's (minus Allen), they lost the ball about 44% of the time.  Allen only lost it 29% of the time.  And he was coughing the ball up in a lot of critical situations, but where we got the ball back.  

 

So I maintain that the Bills defense did something that is hard to sustain that made them better, just as the Bears defense did.  

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Anything could be anything but this reads more like a warning to fellow sports writers than to fellow fans.  Most EVERYBODY in the press seemed to think the Bears were destined for big things, then ending up looking like schmucks. Whoops.

 

When they need a story next spring....we will be "the next big thing" again. But it'll be all couched with "coulds" and "maybes".  They just won't bear down on the declaritives so much.

 

Think the Browns will be good next year guys? Press told me they were gonna be hot hot hot this year....

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12 hours ago, Hebert19 said:

I've said this for 2 years.   We have been just like them.  Difference is they didnt have 90M and a bunch of picks going into his 3rd year.  They traded away all their picks for mack and to trade up for him and couldn't spend big in FA.  Year 3 will be different because the team will be better and wont be just praying allen carries them. 

Depends what you do with it. If its used up extending and keeping your own guys primarily then are you getting better? Or sustaining what you have? 

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Just now, ngbills said:

Depends what you do with it. If its used up extending and keeping your own guys primarily then are you getting better? Or sustaining what you have? 

Can do both and still do responsibly.  Example.  Aj green on a 1 year prove it and a rookie.  You get instant production next year while you have money...and if it works you extend green but you bridge until rookie is ready regardless.  Just like gore and Singletary.  And btw...no long term commitment to weigh in cap for future years.  Best of all worlds that our guys seem to get. 

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2 hours ago, BillsVet said:

You'd also think the GM is going to be bold this year finding talent to put around their QB they moved a lot of pieces to acquire. 

 

I've been saying this for going on 3  years.  When we traded back into the first round after drafting Josh, I KNEW it was for Calvin Ridley to give Josh someone good to throw to.  Instead we draft Ray-Ray in the 5th.  Last year I KNEW we'd go after some top notch WRs and draft Metcalf or somebody. Instead we pick up Brown and Beasley  (not bad, but not dominant either, especially Beasley who drops too many) and don't draft ANY WRs.

 

So now going into Wonder Boy's THIRD season we're going to get serious about WR talent?  I certainly hope so.  We'll see ...

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40 minutes ago, Z-Mann said:

 

Why do you think that is though, that people - fans and non-fans - have that perception?  Not sure what the answer is, but I feel like it's equally as lazy if anyone says that "people just hate Buffalo" or whatever....


I am not in the “everybody hates Buffalo“ camp. I think that much of the negative perspective from the national sports media revolves around the fact that, generally speaking, Buffalo sports teams haven’t been very good for a long time. It is a result of losing. Winning has a way of changing perspectives.

 

I was specifically referring to the prevailing thoughts on Josh Allen. For whatever reason, he evoked strong feelings in people during the draft process. I believe a national narrative developed around the issue of his “accuracy” and people took hardline stances on whether or not he would ever be able to develop into a decent starting NFL quarterback, much less a franchise QB. I feel that narrative was based on superficial analyses and has been perpetuated by people too lazy to actually break down his play and by people who just don’t want to be wrong.

 

Heaven knows he has his flaws and has much to improve on; however, I have been following this team and the NFL for over 50 years and I don’t ever recall a QB whose every single play is so scrutinized - and usually through a lens of negativity. Bad plays are used as support for the view he will never be a franchise QB, while good plays are presented as nothing more than “tantalizing glimpses“ of the potential that he will never be able to reach.

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21 minutes ago, ngbills said:

Yep - Huge year fro McD, Beane, Allen.

 

If they have a tough year with similar look - good defense, inconsistent offense, inability to beat good teams, etc then you have to question the approach. Not saying that means they all go, just that you have to really evaluate if they can win and what changes are needed to get there. 

 

Why leave Daboll and his ultra-coplicated offense off the list of people who would be on the hot seat if the Offense continues to sputter?

 

I'd think he'd be the first to go, and see from there.

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2 hours ago, ngbills said:

This reminded me - did not like the Beane or McD comment recently "we are only in year 4 of building". Hopefully the expectations are not that low...I dont think they are as these guys have to know we better be a playoff team for the foreseeable future. 

 

This is a concern I have with McDermott and Beane. Only year 4 or rebuild?

 

I would like to see a sense of urgency.  San Fransisco will be in year 4 of their rebuild next year too.   Amd with Rams.  Yes they went down this year, but have way more talent wise than us and have more to show for it with a SB trip last year.  Guys are gonna start leaving with perhaps the Tredavian Nightmare after next season and Josh Allen the following year or the next.  Our D Line needs re tooling now with 3 guys up for FA.  NFL teams are a revolving door. You don't get 5 or 6 years to build up your team for a run anymore. Worked in the 70s before FA but no more.

 

Getting to the playoffs 2 out of last 3 years has been awesome, but we don't want to become the Cincinnati Bengals.

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15 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

I've been saying this for going on 3  years.  When we traded back into the first round after drafting Josh, I KNEW it was for Calvin Ridley to give Josh someone good to throw to.  Instead we draft Ray-Ray in the 5th.  Last year I KNEW we'd go after some top notch WRs and draft Metcalf or somebody. Instead we pick up Brown and Beasley  (not bad, but not dominant either, especially Beasley who drops too many) and don't draft ANY WRs.

 

So now going into Wonder Boy's THIRD season we're going to get serious about WR talent?  I certainly hope so.  We'll see ...

 

Well then it's clear, you need to KNOW we are going to pick CB in the 1st (so we actually pick a WR finally). Do your job.

 

 

Edited by DrDawkinstein

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11 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

I've been saying this for going on 3  years.  When we traded back into the first round after drafting Josh, I KNEW it was for Calvin Ridley to give Josh someone good to throw to.  Instead we draft Ray-Ray in the 5th.  Last year I KNEW we'd go after some top notch WRs and draft Metcalf or somebody. Instead we pick up Brown and Beasley  (not bad, but not dominant either, especially Beasley who drops too many) and don't draft ANY WRs.

 

So now going into Wonder Boy's THIRD season we're going to get serious about WR talent?  I certainly hope so.  We'll see ...


Just can’t help yourself, can you?

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20 minutes ago, Z-Mann said:

 

The JA better clean up that fumbling problem, because a lot of his fumbles bounced the right way for us to recover.  He was third among QB's in fumbles in 2019 with 14.  From the top 25 fumbling QB's (minus Allen), they lost the ball about 44% of the time.  Allen only lost it 29% of the time.  And he was coughing the ball up in a lot of critical situations, but where we got the ball back.  

 

So I maintain that the Bills defense did something that is hard to sustain that made them better, just as the Bears defense did.  

I don’t agree about the defense.

You are welcome to your opinion. Injuries are always going to occur. Bills lost probably their second best DT at the time in Harrison Phillips to a season ending injury in the third week. They overcame that. It’s about Depth. Beane seems to be able to find guys and make moves. I think this offseason will be about finding more depth. 
McDermotts defense is system based. Obviously better talent makes the system better. If anything cornerback is a need for 2020.

As for JA and his fumbles, those are correctable. I will take JA and his trajectory over anyone else from that draft class. Josh was in the playoffs and he didn’t cost his team the game. No other QB from 2018 can say that. 

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1 minute ago, reddogblitz said:

 

This is a concern I have with McDermott and Beane. Only year 4 or rebuild?

 

 

2 hours ago, ngbills said:

This reminded me - did not like the Beane or McD comment recently "we are only in year 4 of building". Hopefully the expectations are not that low...I dont think they are as these guys have to know we better be a playoff team for the foreseeable future. 

 

I need a link to that quote, because it would be quite concerning. Not due to the lack of urgency, but because Beane's only been here for 30 months which is no where near 4 years.

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3 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:


I am not in the “everybody hates Buffalo“ camp. I think that much of the negative perspective from the national sports media revolves around the fact that, generally speaking, Buffalo sports teams haven’t been very good for a long time. It is a result of losing. Winning has a way of changing perspectives.

 

I was specifically referring to the prevailing thoughts on Josh Allen. For whatever reason, he evoked strong feelings in people during the draft process. I believe a national narrative developed around the issue of his “accuracy” and people took hardline stances on whether or not he would ever be able to develop into a decent starting NFL quarterback, much less a franchise QB. I feel that narrative was based on superficial analyses and has been perpetuated by people too lazy to actually break down his play and by people who just don’t want to be wrong.

 

Heaven knows he has his flaws and has much to improve on; however, I have been following this team and the NFL for over 50 years and I don’t ever recall a QB whose every single play is so scrutinized - and usually through a lens of negativity. Bad plays are used as support for the view he will never be a franchise QB, while good plays are presented as nothing more than “tantalizing glimpses“ of the potential that he will never be able to reach.

Man I wish you were here for TT, EJ, Fitz, Trent etc etc. 

 

Every Bills QB who hasn’t proven to be great yet is scrutinized. It’s the nature of the position.

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Just now, BringBackOrton said:

Man I wish you were here for TT, EJ, Fitz, Trent etc etc. 

 

Every Bills QB who hasn’t proven to be great yet is scrutinized. It’s the nature of the position.


I have been here for all of them. Of course they are all scrutinized. However, I stand by my assessment.

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3 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

 

I need a link to that quote, because it would be quite concerning. Not due to the lack of urgency, but because Beane's only been here for 30 months which is no where near 4 years.

 

Next year will be his 4th season as GM.  Yes he missed the first draft but was the architect of the roster dump we had which he hasn't replaced yet in regards to players of Woods/Watkins/Dareus caliber.  So it's on him regardless IMHO.  You don't get a pass for the whole season just because you weren't there for the draft. And he's the one who said it was only year 4 of the rebuild.

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28 minutes ago, Hebert19 said:

Can do both and still do responsibly.  Example.  Aj green on a 1 year prove it and a rookie.  You get instant production next year while you have money...and if it works you extend green but you bridge until rookie is ready regardless.  Just like gore and Singletary.  And btw...no long term commitment to weigh in cap for future years.  Best of all worlds that our guys seem to get. 

With you on this. My concern lies in front loading contracts and all then are cap space goes away quickly with too much faith in status quo. 

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Just now, billsfan1959 said:


I have been here for all of them. Of course they are all scrutinized. However, I stand by my assessment.

I just don’t think Josh gets it any worse than those dudes. In fact, I think he gets it easier, mostly because he HAS already proven more. 

 

Couple that with the fact that Josh was an absolutely polarizing prospect, with draft grades all over the place, and the current climate makes a ton of sense.

 

Case in point, @GunnerBill and @thebandit27 both put out STELLAR pre draft QB analyses, for the last few years at least. Both dudes’ are universally credible, have excellent football acumen and are as unbiased as you can get on this board. GB had a 3rd round grade on Allen and bandito had an early 1st on him. GB commenting that he has “natural inaccuracy” and bandit said he didn’t see that at all. Player analysis is subjective and imperfect.

 

Calling any and all analysis of Josh Allen, pre- and post-draft “lazy and superficial” just flies in the face reality. Are there some guys who saw a big goofy kid throw off his back foot once in Wyoming and said he was gonna suck? Sure. Are there documented examples of rational takes of Josh Allen’s flaws based on decent evidence and analysis as a college QB and as an NFL starter? You betcha.

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12 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Why leave Daboll and his ultra-coplicated offense off the list of people who would be on the hot seat if the Offense continues to sputter?

 

I'd think he'd be the first to go, and see from there.

I would hope so. I get the continuity thing but I would have seriously looked at not bringing him back this year. 

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1 minute ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Next year will be his 4th season as GM.  Yes he missed the first draft but was the architect of the roster dump we had which he hasn't replaced yet in regards to players of Woods/Watkins/Dareus caliber.  So it's on him regardless IMHO.  You don't get a pass for the whole season just because you weren't there for the draft. And he's the one who said it was only year 4 of the rebuild.

 

Oh Im not giving him any pass. I was mostly joking just because the math doesnt add up. When did he say that? During his post-season presser?

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10 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:


Just can’t help yourself, can you?

 

Do you think it's prudent to trade up to draft a project QB in round 1 and then not supply him with quality WRs to throw to (again Brown and Bealey OK but not great)?  Atlanta traded up to get Julio Jones and they have Matt Ryan. Then with Jones they took Ridley in the first.  The same year the Bengals drafted Dalton they also drafted AJ Green. 

 

If we wanna be a team with a great QB and fancy pass offense, we need to massively upgrade at the position IMHO.

 

 

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1 minute ago, ngbills said:

I would hope so. I get the continuity thing but I would have seriously looked at not bringing him back this year. 

 

I'd also note that firing a GM and cleaning house because they miss on their first QB is a great way to keep your franchise bogged down in mediocrity (or worse).

 

HoF GM Ozzie Newsome's first QB was Kyle Boller. He whiffed hard. But the Ravens didnt fire him over it. They let him fix his mistake, bring in McNair to bridge the gap, and finally found Flacco. And while Flacco isnt a GOAT, he does have a Super Bowl win and Super Bowl MVP in his cabinet, so I think that's good enough. And part of that success was because the coaches and schemes and other players were able to stay in place.

 

I'm fine with moving on from Daboll. Even Allen in a couple years if he doesnt pan out. But dont clean out the FO and force a rebuild of the entire team over one position.

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9 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

I just don’t think Josh gets it any worse than those dudes. In fact, I think he gets it easier, mostly because he HAS already proven more. 

 

Couple that with the fact that Josh was an absolutely polarizing prospect, with draft grades all over the place, and the current climate makes a ton of sense.

 

Case in point, @GunnerBill and @thebandit27 both put out STELLAR pre draft QB analyses, for the last few years at least. Both dudes’ are universally credible, have excellent football acumen and are as unbiased as you can get on this board. GB had a 3rd round grade on Allen and bandito had an early 1st on him. GB commenting that he has “natural inaccuracy” and bandit said he didn’t see that at all. Player analysis is subjective and imperfect.

 

Calling any and all analysis of Josh Allen, pre- and post-draft “lazy and superficial” just flies in the face reality. Are there some guys who saw a big goofy kid throw off his back foot once in Wyoming and said he was gonna suck? Sure. Are there documented examples of rational takes of Josh Allen’s flaws based on decent evidence and analysis as a college QB and as an NFL starter? You betcha.


I didn’t call all of the analyses of Allen during the draft process lazy and superficial. I said much of the national narrative coming out of the draft was lazy and superficial - and has continued to be perpetuated.

 

That is my view. Feel free to differ.

4 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Do you think it's prudent to trade up to draft a project QB in round 1 and then not supply him with quality WRs to throw to (again Brown and Bealey OK but not great)?  Atlanta traded up to get Julio Jones and they have Matt Ryan. Then with Jones they took Ridley in the first.  The same year the Bengals drafted Dalton they also drafted AJ Green. 

 

If we wanna be a team with a great QB and fancy pass offense, we need to massively upgrade at the position IMHO.

 

 


I agree 100% with the need to upgrade around him and if they want Allen to take that next step they better do it this off-season. My response was to your reference to Allen as “Wonder boy.“ It sounded a bit condescending. If that wasn’t your intent my apologies. I agree with the rest of what you say

Edited by billsfan1959

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