Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: He did admit it - they talked about it endlessly for weeks ??? 1 minute ago, Warcodered said: Plus he's squatting in their stadium. Yeah, sponsorships and commercials are great $$ I think, but I hope Josh Allen doesn't go that route too soon even if he gets offers. It can cast a guy and a team in a bad light if things don't work as well as planned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putin Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 16 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Wow, I don't really want to be cast as a Baker apologist. Did he really admit "not working very hard"? I know he did say he wouldn't be hiring a private QB coach, I thought he was kind of snarky and maybe taking a bit of a shot at Allen, Darnold and Kyle Allen and their beach-house-Jordan-Palmer plan " I would not say that I will go on the beach and swim through the ocean and try and learn how to play quarterback by doing that." (of course, the swim through the ocean is not the "better QB" part of their plan) As far as the rest.....Browns beat Baltimore in a good game and had a strong game against Pittsburgh. He had a pretty good game against us I thought. 3 good Ds. Close game against Seattle. He certainly had up and down play this year and yes, bad statistically, but I thought he showed some good play last year and this, just very inconsistent behind an inconsistent OL (something we've seen from our guy, actually) I think his first year ( success he had ) went to his fat head , no one knows just yet who will have a better career him or Josh BUT at least we know that Josh is a hard worker and I’m glad he’s a Buffalo Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExWNYer Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 9 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: ??? Yeah, sponsorships and commercials are great $$ I think, but I hope Josh Allen doesn't go that route too soon even if he gets offers. It can cast a guy and a team in a bad light if things don't work as well as planned. Probably not too much to worry about there. I don't think that Josh's wholesome 'golly gee' persona is what sells currently. Mayfield has just the right amount of arrogance and douchiness that plays well on Madison Avenue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 5 minutes ago, Putin said: I think his [Baker's] first year ( success he had ) went to his fat head , no one knows just yet who will have a better career him or Josh BUT at least we know that Josh is a hard worker and I’m glad he’s a Buffalo Bill So when McDermott said in one of his pressers "some QB think they'll be better their second year just because it's they're second year; Josh Allen works his butt off", was that a little snipe at Baker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 2 hours ago, MDH said: Yeah, these are both good points. The way I see it is this. A lot of OCs in recent times have altered schemes and tailor made the to hide their young QB's faults and accentuate their strengths. This enables the QB to experience success earlier than they normally would. I think this is fan's biggest problem with Daboll, he hasn't done this with Josh. I might be the only one, but I prefer it the way Daboll has done it, at least for this team. We've seen too many times a young QB comes in and the OC protects him and he's pretty good the first few years and then bam, he hits a wall and never develops much further. Particularly with running QBs. Daboll hasn't simplified anything, he makes Josh get to the LoS, look at the D, make the OL adjustments and alter the play and then drop back and run a, mostly, pro style offense from the pocket. Occasionally he'll mix in some running plays for Allen (usually in the red zone) but for the most part he has taken the training wheels off and let Allen sink or swim, like an old school OC used to do with their QBs, which is why it used to take QBs 3-5 years to develop. The Bills knew that their window for the SB wasn't in Allen's first two years, so why not teach the kid how to play honest to goodness QB in the NFL right off the bat. Particularly with a kid that's so raw and hasn't had any real coaching thus far in his QB career. Not only that, he's doing it with a multiple scheme where Allen can't get comfortable with a base set. It changes game to game. I'll admit, it's not the way to win games immediately but it's the best way to prepare your QB for the future. Yet just when that future is about to get here we change OC's? Ugh, that's the last thing I want to do at this point. Go back and look at Allen's Wyoming tape. He was a totally different QB. They have molded this kid these past two years into a reasonable starter and I believe if they stay the course he has a chance to become a good to very good QB. if they change OCs and Allen back slides next year Josh might not get a 4th season in Buffalo, who knows. Again, Daboll isn't perfect and he has his flaws. He sometimes let's the game get away from him and they're a tad conservative in certain situations for my taste. But overall I think he's been a good instructor for Allen and a big reason he's made the strides he has. Good counter post. And I do agree that overall they have done a good job with Josh. My biggest issue with Daboll is his inconsistency in game in how he is play calling. Never seen a team that can look like two totally different offenses in the same game at different points of the game so much. I just wish Daboll would focus on situational awareness and building rhythm out there. Comes across as he is trying to hard to look like a genius and its back firing too much. If Daboll just was more consistently strong at calling the offense through the game then I would have no issues with him. The frequency he gets stupid out there is concerning. I am not sure I will ever get over the Gore draw at the end of the half against Houston. Might be the dumbest call I can remember seeing on the entire season at a key moment in a game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 2 hours ago, MDH said: Yeah, these are both good points. The way I see it is this. A lot of OCs in recent times have altered schemes and tailor made the to hide their young QB's faults and accentuate their strengths. This enables the QB to experience success earlier than they normally would. I think this is fan's biggest problem with Daboll, he hasn't done this with Josh. I might be the only one, but I prefer it the way Daboll has done it, at least for this team. We've seen too many times a young QB comes in and the OC protects him and he's pretty good the first few years and then bam, he hits a wall and never develops much further. Particularly with running QBs. Daboll hasn't simplified anything, he makes Josh get to the LoS, look at the D, make the OL adjustments and alter the play and then drop back and run a, mostly, pro style offense from the pocket. Occasionally he'll mix in some running plays for Allen (usually in the red zone) but for the most part he has taken the training wheels off and let Allen sink or swim, like an old school OC used to do with their QBs, which is why it used to take QBs 3-5 years to develop. The Bills knew that their window for the SB wasn't in Allen's first two years, so why not teach the kid how to play honest to goodness QB in the NFL right off the bat. Particularly with a kid that's so raw and hasn't had any real coaching thus far in his QB career. Not only that, he's doing it with a multiple scheme where Allen can't get comfortable with a base set. It changes game to game. I'll admit, it's not the way to win games immediately but it's the best way to prepare your QB for the future. Yet just when that future is about to get here we change OC's? Ugh, that's the last thing I want to do at this point. Go back and look at Allen's Wyoming tape. He was a totally different QB. They have molded this kid these past two years into a reasonable starter and I believe if they stay the course he has a chance to become a good to very good QB. if they change OCs and Allen back slides next year Josh might not get a 4th season in Buffalo, who knows. Again, Daboll isn't perfect and he has his flaws. He sometimes let's the game get away from him and they're a tad conservative in certain situations for my taste. But overall I think he's been a good instructor for Allen and a big reason he's made the strides he has. Can you provide the names of these young QBs with lots of early success that then fail. And also give some examples of the QBs who only really develop in year 5? I think these are myths like bigfoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 39 minutes ago, Putin said: I think his first year ( success he had ) went to his fat head , no one knows just yet who will have a better career him or Josh BUT at least we know that Josh is a hard worker and I’m glad he’s a Buffalo Bill Baker Manziel....like we're surprised. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putin Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 42 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: So when McDermott said in one of his pressers "some QB think they'll be better their second year just because it's they're second year; Josh Allen works his butt off", was that a little snipe at Baker? Sure sounds like it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I am so torn if I want to hear Daboll was offered the job, or if I should be sad if Daboll was offered the job. I'm not torn, as I'd be ecstatic if he took the Cleveland HCing job! Shoot, as smart as he is he might actually do a good job there as HC, as long as he isn't calling the plays. What most Bills fans fail to realize is that this QB is NOT a Peyton Manning type who attended a big time college program (Tennessee)and was developed in that program. So throwing him into the NFL fire over and over is exactly what he needed to further develop into greatness. Allen basically needed to go begging to even get into a college scholarship and only one college in the entire country accepted him. That school was Wyoming and exactly how many big time NFL QBs have come from that college...none! Wanna know how many 1st round picks besides Josh Allen have come from that college since 1947? RB Lawrence Gains in 1976, Detroit, DB Arron Kyle 1976, Dallas. DT Ron Billingsley 1967. Yeah, that's it, three...and no other QB from that big time "Mountain West Conference." Wanna know how many times the Wyoming Cowboys have come in first place since 1999? Never! Josh Allen was a noted raw, developmental project at QB coming into the NFL, with a heart as big as the Wyoming sky with a burning desire to win. The problem as I see it is that Allen can be ruined by some overzealous OC in his desire to prove that "he" can be great. Over the years I've seen so very many really good college QBs ruined on bad offenses with bad OCs! Brian Daboll has never been good as an OC in building a good passing offense, ever! Four different NFL teams in six seasons and never had a better than 22nd passing offense and that was with Matt Moore in Miami. Daboll has never developed any young, inexperienced QB. Why do people think he will be able to magically do that now? If anything, Josh Allen is making Daboll look half way decent. What Allen needs is a ball control, run first, play action passing offense that will allow him to learn and grow as he develops without getting his confidence destroyed along the way. The Vikings power zone play action scheme under Kevin Stephanski would be a great scheme to develop Josh in. The Buffalo Bills under defensive minded Sean McDermott would appear to be the perfect fit for Allen as the Erhardt-Perkins offensive philosophy is supposed to be a ball control run first with play action scheme. With Daboll as OC that only gets utilized about half the time and in some games he literally goes passing crazy. Having Allen throw 48 times in that Texans game was utterly moronic. Especially considering the Bills had a 16 point lead and should have been pounding the rock with Singletary to control the clock. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 2 hours ago, MDH said: Yeah, these are both good points. The way I see it is this. A lot of OCs in recent times have altered schemes and tailor made the to hide their young QB's faults and accentuate their strengths. This enables the QB to experience success earlier than they normally would. I think this is fan's biggest problem with Daboll, he hasn't done this with Josh. I might be the only one, but I prefer it the way Daboll has done it, at least for this team. We've seen too many times a young QB comes in and the OC protects him and he's pretty good the first few years and then bam, he hits a wall and never develops much further. Particularly with running QBs. Daboll hasn't simplified anything, he makes Josh get to the LoS, look at the D, make the OL adjustments and alter the play and then drop back and run a, mostly, pro style offense from the pocket. Occasionally he'll mix in some running plays for Allen (usually in the red zone) but for the most part he has taken the training wheels off and let Allen sink or swim, like an old school OC used to do with their QBs, which is why it used to take QBs 3-5 years to develop. The Bills knew that their window for the SB wasn't in Allen's first two years, so why not teach the kid how to play honest to goodness QB in the NFL right off the bat. Particularly with a kid that's so raw and hasn't had any real coaching thus far in his QB career. Not only that, he's doing it with a multiple scheme where Allen can't get comfortable with a base set. It changes game to game. I'll admit, it's not the way to win games immediately but it's the best way to prepare your QB for the future. Yet just when that future is about to get here we change OC's? Ugh, that's the last thing I want to do at this point. Go back and look at Allen's Wyoming tape. He was a totally different QB. They have molded this kid these past two years into a reasonable starter and I believe if they stay the course he has a chance to become a good to very good QB. if they change OCs and Allen back slides next year Josh might not get a 4th season in Buffalo, who knows. Again, Daboll isn't perfect and he has his flaws. He sometimes let's the game get away from him and they're a tad conservative in certain situations for my taste. But overall I think he's been a good instructor for Allen and a big reason he's made the strides he has. You are not the only one. It is the way I feel too. I think giving Josh Allen every possible chance to be great is more important than winning a game or two extra. That might be the ultimate long termist view, I know, and I get that. I also do understand those who question the run / pass balance in the 2nd half on Saturday because once you are in the dance you should have a go at trying to win it. But overall over the course of the season I did not want Josh hidden. The run the ball more and play defense crowd might think that helps Josh but I don't believe it does. Have we put a lot on him at times? Yes. But I wouldn't want it any other way. We took the kid 7th overall to be our Quarterback. Let the kid be a Quarterback. I have consistently said I don't want to coach the hero ball out of him either. In the long term I want a QB who makes the risky plays. I see it on this board so often about other QBs "oh Mahomes / Watson are just throwing 50/50 jump balls." Good. Sometimes I want my QB to try and make that play. And if it gets picked off so be it. Josh could be great. Screw the play it safe, run the ball a million times and play defense strategy. I get that if you expose him there is a chance Josh fails. But you miss every shot you never take in life. No risk it. No biscuit. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 27 minutes ago, Nihilarian said: If anything, Josh Allen is making Daboll look half way decent. What Allen needs is a ball control, run first, play action passing offense that will allow him to learn and grow as he develops without getting his confidence destroyed along the way. The Vikings power zone play action scheme under Kevin Stephanski would be a great scheme to develop Josh in. What about the thought that it's harder to sell PA or a screen game with a run-threat QB? Quote The Buffalo Bills under defensive minded Sean McDermott would appear to be the perfect fit for Allen as the Erhardt-Perkins offensive philosophy is supposed to be a ball control run first with play action scheme. With Daboll as OC that only gets utilized about half the time and in some games he literally goes passing crazy. Having Allen throw 48 times in that Texans game was utterly moronic. Especially considering the Bills had a 16 point lead and should have been pounding the rock with Singletary to control the clock. At the end of the 3Q, the Bills lead was 16-8. Of ~49 offensive plays, run/pass balance was 26 pass plays/23 rush plays You write this as though the Bills went totally pass-happy at a point where we had a 16 point lead, but in fact it was a very balanced attack through the end of the 3Q. 3Q was 7 rush plays, 5 pass plays. The play selection became pass-heavy in the 4Q and particularly in OT, at which point of course we were trying to tie the game and then win it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 Well, Bills fans...you’re about to get your wish... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 1 minute ago, JaCrispy said: Well, Bills fans...you’re about to get your wish... Which is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 Cleveland needs to sign him tonight Gfy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Bangarang said: Which is? Most Bills fans on TBD seem to want Daboll on a midnight train outta town...Idk, I would hate starting over at OC... Edited January 11, 2020 by JaCrispy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 Just now, JaCrispy said: Most Bills fans on TBD seem to want Daboll on a midnight train outta town...Idk, I would hate starting over at OC... Ah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 Just now, JaCrispy said: Most Bills fans on TBD seem to want Daboll on a midnight train outta town... If you have news, please give it and source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: If you have news, please give it and source. I have a buddy that works for a team (not Bills). he just texted me and said I have heard you guys are going to need a new OC. he has been about 50% on stuff he has given me over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, JaCrispy said: Most Bills fans on TBD seem to want Daboll on a midnight train outta town... I don’t. I’d rather get better in the offensive system that we are in. If people think McDermott is going to bring in some edgy OC, they are out of their mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 Just now, MAJBobby said: I have a buddy that works for a team (not Bills). he just texted me and said I have heard you guys are going to need a new OC. he has been about 50% on stuff he has given me over the years. So I should flip a coin and do just as well as your buddy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: So I should flip a coin and do just as well as your buddy? Yep pretty much. He is better when it comes to players and really much more accurate in the NFC. But I like listening to him he taught me a ton about values of players Edited January 11, 2020 by MAJBobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 1 hour ago, Putin said: I think his first year ( success he had ) went to his fat head , no one knows just yet who will have a better career him or Josh BUT at least we know that Josh is a hard worker and I’m glad he’s a Buffalo Bill I also think that Baker had assumed his own invincibility after years and years of success from Oklahoma to a highly productive rookie year he had no reason to believe that he would keep going upward. But I think mentally he had assumed that if he kept just doing what he had been doing that it would just work out. I think if he gets humbled by this past season that is going to be a good thing for him long term. If the Browns can get a quality coach and improve their O-line and defense I don’t see why Baker couldn’t lead the Browns to a successful season of 9-10 wins. Sometimes players need to be punched in the mouth (metaphorically) in order to combat resting on their own reputation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 1 minute ago, MAJBobby said: Yep pretty much. He is better when it comes to players and really much more accurate in the NFC. But I like listening to him he taught me a ton about values of players What's he tell you about the value of Shaq Lawson, Jordan Phillips, and Quinton Spain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 Who wouldn't love to coach in Cleveland? You can hop in the lake anytime... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: What's he tell you about the value of Shaq Lawson, Jordan Phillips, and Quinton Spain? Shaq he says is around 7-9 AVV Jordan Phillips 8-9M AVV Spain 9-11M AVV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGMcD2 Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 4 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: I also think that Baker had assumed his own invincibility after years and years of success from Oklahoma to a highly productive rookie year he had no reason to believe that he would keep going upward. But I think mentally he had assumed that if he kept just doing what he had been doing that it would just work out. I think if he gets humbled by this past season that is going to be a good thing for him long term. If the Browns can get a quality coach and improve their O-line and defense I don’t see why Baker couldn’t lead the Browns to a successful season of 9-10 wins. Sometimes players need to be punched in the mouth (metaphorically) in order to combat resting on their own reputation. I can attest to this. A good friend of mine is related to a Browns player. He said that Baker did not put much time into video, studying the playbook, etc. They player had been with other organizations prior and said that he did not work on those aspects like other QBs he had been around in the past. Maybe Baker changes that... but I’ve never heard anyone say Josh doesn’t work hard. Things like this are slowly but surely confirming to me that we made the the right decision with our QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctk232 Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: What about the thought that it's harder to sell PA or a screen game with a run-threat QB? At the end of the 3Q, the Bills lead was 16-8. Of ~49 offensive plays, run/pass balance was 26 pass plays/23 rush plays You write this as though the Bills went totally pass-happy at a point where we had a 16 point lead, but in fact it was a very balanced attack through the end of the 3Q. 3Q was 7 rush plays, 5 pass plays. The play selection became pass-heavy in the 4Q and particularly in OT, at which point of course we were trying to tie the game and then win it. Wholly agree, but in relation to the OT gameplan exclusively, that was the piece of it all that I just couldn't understand. After getting a stop on the Texan's opening drive in OT - I'll never get why we didn't bring back the run with Singletary to be the primary offensive attack, or at least complement the pass with it more so. The durability concerns should have been out of the question at that point, and the kid was having an all-pro game - especially with his YAC. There were no prior injury scares in the game, and in the playoffs there's no excuse to not have your RB1, performing the way he was on Saturday, not be featured in your OT offense. Given that there had to be a winner, the clock wasn't even a consideration so there was no need to have a pass heavy attack (almost exclusively), the entirety of OT. This clearly wasn't the reason we lost the game, but the personnel and game plan decisions entering a "sudden" death overtime were beyond questionable. We only needed a FG to win and ~40 yards of offense to get it - there's no reason to abandon the run the way we did with that goal in mind. I wouldn't attribute this to McD, and I believe the conservative/defensive-minded coach criticism and trope to be tired and baseless - but whether it be McD, Daboll, or some combination of the two, I'm beyond curious who decided to approach that situation in OT the way we did. Edit to bring it back to the main discourse of this thread - as much as I'm left distraught regarding the above OT gameplan, I'd still rather see Daboll return and Allen continue to develop within the system he's learned thus far. What I'd like to see, however, is improvement to in-game response to adapting the scheme/gameplan and Josh improving within the system; something to indicate that both Allen and the offensive scheme are working in unison and not in conflict like we saw at times this season. Given what's come out since the game, I'm hopeful that this happens. Edited January 11, 2020 by ctk232 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 Just now, MAJBobby said: Shaq he says is around 7-9 AVV Jordan Phillips 8-9M AVV Spain 9-11M AVV Woaoa, I would have put Shaq higher than Phillips! And I would not have put Spain that high Very interesting 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 1 minute ago, JGMcD2 said: I can attest to this. A good friend of mine is related to a Browns player. He said that Baker did not put much time into video, studying the playbook, etc. They player had been with other organizations prior and said that he did not work on those aspects like other QBs he had been around in the past. Maybe Baker changes that... but I’ve never heard anyone say Josh doesn’t work hard. Things like this are slowly but surely confirming to me that we made the the right decision with our QB. It's weird because Baker seems like such a competitive guy that you would think he would just keep working to be better. Character was never much of an issue in terms of work ethic when he was coming into the league. But everyone can get high on their own supply I guess. Hopefully the wake up call sticks and he gets some good coaching. It would be nice for the AFC North to have 3 top teams beating up on each other. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Woaoa, I would have put Shaq higher than Phillips! And I would not have put Spain that high Very interesting He said there is going to be a trend that DTs that can get pressure are going to be higher Value than DEs. Because of the way the game is changing with Quick Passing and the fastest way to get to QB is a straight line. also said he knows his team has Schreff and Spain ranked equally. he gives me some really cool tidbits I would have never thought about Edited January 11, 2020 by MAJBobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 10 minutes ago, ctk232 said: Wholly agree, but in relation to the OT gameplan exclusively, that was the piece of it all that I just couldn't understand. After getting a stop on the Texan's opening drive in OT - I'll never get why we didn't bring back the run with Singletary to be the primary offensive attack, or at least complement the pass with it more so. The durability concerns should have been out of the question at that point, and the kid was having an all-pro game - especially with his YAC. There were no prior injury scares in the game, and in the playoffs there's no excuse to not have your RB1, performing the way he was on Sunday, not be featured in your OT offense. Given that there had to be a winner, the clock wasn't even a consideration so there was no need to have a pass heavy attack (almost exclusively), the entirety of OT. This clearly wasn't the reason we lost the game, but the personnel and game plan decisions entering a "sudden" death overtime were beyond questionable. We only need a FG to win and ~40 yards of offense to get it - there's no reason to abandon the run the way we did with that goal in mind. I wouldn't attribute this to McD, and I believe the conservative/defensive-minded coach criticism and trope to be tired and baseless - but whether it be McD, Daboll, or some combination of the two, I'm beyond curious who decided to approach that situation in OT the way we did. Completely agree. I also kind of feel like the Bills team needs a sort of "break glass in case of emergency" plan for the players to give Josh a talkin-to when Allen shows signs of trying to load all 45 guys on his back again. Not sure what that plan would be I'm sure the guys can figure something out. It should involve someone chanting at him "take what they give you! take what they give you!" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGMcD2 Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 4 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: It's weird because Baker seems like such a competitive guy that you would think he would just keep working to be better. Character was never much of an issue in terms of work ethic when he was coming into the league. But everyone can get high on their own supply I guess. Hopefully the wake up call sticks and he gets some good coaching. It would be nice for the AFC North to have 3 top teams beating up on each other. I thought so too! A former walk-on and what not. Always told he wasn’t good enough you’d think he wouldn’t be like that. Apparently he just thought he could coast by based on last year and the addition of Odell. He legitimately bought into all of the media hype. Thats what this player said as well... Kitchens bought in and didn’t keep things under control there. They loved him and the hype but the second things went wrong the players threw him under the bus. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 4 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: He said there is going to be a trend that DTs that can get pressure are going to be higher Value than DEs. Because of the way the game is changing with Quick Passing and the fastest way to get to QB is a straight line. also said he knows his team has Schreff and Spain ranked equally. he gives me some really cool tidbits I would have never thought about Very Interesting. I personally wish the Bills would keep Phillips AND Shaq. I don't think $9 AAV is too much. Spain I'm a bit more ambivalent about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Very Interesting. I personally wish the Bills would keep Phillips AND Shaq. I don't think $9 AAV is too much. Spain I'm a bit more ambivalent about. Spain is on the wrong side of the ball. He had the best tackle in the game against the Texans. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctk232 Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Completely agree. I also kind of feel like the Bills team needs a sort of "break glass in case of emergency" plan for when Allen shows signs of trying to load all 45 guys on his back again Not sure what that plan would be I'm sure the guys can figure something out. Word - I'd love to be a fly on the wall with the in-game communication b/t Daboll and Allen for one, but also to hear what McD might be saying and when. Especially in relation to those "break the glass" moments like you mention. There were ample opportunities, in my mind, during OT where we could've taken a timeout, assessed the situation, and interjected more of the run game with Singletary. Either within Allen himself or from McD or Daboll, there was no reason to let Allen attempt to carry everyone, and just settle him down. From those last few 4Q drives and into OT, he was playing like he had something to prove to everyone, and like he had to win the game on the next play. The pressure will always be there for Allen and the coaches, but it felt like all we needed was a timeout to gather ourselves and approach this like a new game. But man I'd love to hear the headset conversations for those last few drives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 10 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: It's weird because Baker seems like such a competitive guy that you would think he would just keep working to be better. Character was never much of an issue in terms of work ethic when he was coming into the league. But everyone can get high on their own supply I guess. Hopefully the wake up call sticks and he gets some good coaching. It would be nice for the AFC North to have 3 top teams beating up on each other. I think that's the difference between someone who is internally motivated, and someone who is externally motivated. Someone who is internally motivated has their own internal yardstick for who what and where they want to be. They're constantly looking at their performance through that lens and striving to be better. I think Josh is internally motivated - whether the press says he is good, or whether the press says he is bad, he's asking "am I where I want to be? No? work harder." I think Baker is externally motivated. He fought like a small wildcat while people were dissing him off. "Oh yeah? I'll Show YOU!". But once he became the #1 pick and had hype and endorsement deals and maybe felt annointed, I can see that might become "OK, I am what you say now" Maybe I'm not verbalizing it well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said: I think that's the difference between someone who is internally motivated, and someone who is externally motivated. Someone who is internally motivated has their own internal yardstick for who what and where they want to be. They're constantly looking at their performance through that lens and striving to be better. I think Josh is internally motivated - whether the press says he is good, or whether the press says he is bad, he's asking "am I where I want to be? No? work harder." I think Baker is externally motivated. He fought like a small wildcat while people were dissing him off. "Oh yeah? I'll Show YOU!". But once he became the #1 pick and had hype and endorsement deals and maybe felt annointed, I can see that might become "OK, I am what you say now" Maybe I'm not verbalizing it well. That makes sense, if you are driven by "me against the world" then suddenly when the world is on your side you lose your edge. I hope he realizes that you have to keep grinding on it if you want to be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Very Interesting. I personally wish the Bills would keep Phillips AND Shaq. I don't think $9 AAV is too much. Spain I'm a bit more ambivalent about. I'm not paying Spain or J Phillips 9 mil/yr if I'm Beane, but I don't believe those numbers will match their respective contracts; Phillips may be viewed as a one year wonder and Spain sat on the market forever last offseason. His play wasn't exactly "inspiring." I'd personally prefer a better run blocker at the LG spot, so bye bye at 9 mil per. I AM paying Shaq 7-9 mil per, but I believe he will get offers considerably higher. Easy pass on Spain, but much tougher decision on J Phillips. From the sound of Beane's PC, I don't expect them to give Phillips a big deal. Not a fan of Star's 10 mil per, but that's a seperate convo I suppose. Edited January 11, 2020 by LSHMEAB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 8 minutes ago, ctk232 said: Word - I'd love to be a fly on the wall with the in-game communication b/t Daboll and Allen for one, but also to hear what McD might be saying and when. Especially in relation to those "break the glass" moments like you mention. There were ample opportunities, in my mind, during OT where we could've taken a timeout, assessed the situation, and interjected more of the run game with Singletary. Either within Allen himself or from McD or Daboll, there was no reason to let Allen attempt to carry everyone, and just settle him down. From those last few 4Q drives and into OT, he was playing like he had something to prove to everyone, and like he had to win the game on the next play. The pressure will always be there for Allen and the coaches, but it felt like all we needed was a timeout to gather ourselves and approach this like a new game. But man I'd love to hear the headset conversations for those last few drives. Agree - some kind of plan where as soon as Josh pulls what looks like a hero-ball stunt, call a timeout if need be, get everyone around, and have one of the vet guys who is playing say "Look, we got this. All 11 of us - TEAM! Deep breath, take what they give us, and Let's Go!" I'm not sure it can come from a coach in those moments. I think it might have to come from someone who is out there getting bruised and sweating with you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 37 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: What about the thought that it's harder to sell PA or a screen game with a run-threat QB? The thing is, for Josh Allen to last in this league you don't want him to be a Lamar Jackson or Cam Newton. For the Vikings everything works off that power zone play action scheme. "The Vikings do an excellent job of disguising play-action, making it almost impossible for the defense to tell until the last moment." https://whodatdish.com/2020/01/03/new-orleans-saints-breaking-down-vikings/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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