Foxx Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 8 hours ago, Mike in Horseheads said: Is Tre/Allen a computer game? do we live in a computer generated hologram? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobbRiddicksTDLeap Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 10 hours ago, ScottLaw said: Yes because the offensive personnel was mostly awful.... thanks to the new regime. No, it’s not the fault of the new regime. It’s the fault of previous regimes who left the cupboards bare if talent and money. revisionist history is a beautiful thing 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreggTX Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 I would trade White and Allen for Mahomes in a heartbeat and it would be the best trade in franchise history. We'd sign the best CB on the FA market and draft another. Add a #1 WR and a probowl OT and we'd be as good as any team in the NFL or better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 10 hours ago, Sherlock Holmes said: Josh Allen may eventually be the best QB ever... He may be. I’d give Mahomes the big edge at this point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 6 hours ago, auburnbillsbacker said: Mahomes will likely be in the hall of fame at the most important position in team sports. That trumps an All Pro CB and a solid QB. Likely? And how do we know Allen won't be a HOF'er? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wppete Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 Ill take Tre White and Josh Allen over Patrick Mahomes any day! This again proves McBeane know what they are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 I'll reserve judgement until I see where both QBs top out in their development. If I had to choose right now I'd say I'd rather have Mahomes than Allen+Tre, but Allen was a raw QB when drafted and is still developing (for that matter, so is Mahomes.) If Allen keeps progressing I'll be fine with the trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 15 hours ago, Teddy KGB said: That secondary would be just as dominant without Tre White it sounds like ?? I see your point... but we would have had all those extra draft picks (that we didn’t use on Josh) to draft a CB or two. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estro Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 Imo, it was a disaster. This league is about your QB........and when you pass on a QB that looks like one of the best ever (when you needed a QB badly) that's a disaster. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 14 hours ago, John from Riverside said: It is not NEARLY that simple Tre WHite is a major part of our defense....which would be backing Mahommes up. KC wins by outscoring its opponents they do NOT have a good defense This is correct... that’s why I said if Mahomes was on the Bills we would be Super Bowl favs...those extra picks used to move up for JA could have been used to draft secondary...but I get it- McD said he wasn’t ready to draft a QB... 2 minutes ago, Estro said: Imo, it was a disaster. This league is about your QB........and when you pass on a QB that looks like one of the best ever (when you needed a QB badly) that's a disaster. Agreed...unless JA can improve to anywhere near Mahomes status, NFL films will be replaying that trade for years to come- just like “wide right”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 2 hours ago, Binghamton Beast said: Likely? And how do we know Allen won't be a HOF'er? Mvp in his first year vs a top 20ish qb after his 2nd year give the edge to Mahomes. we don’t “know” anything about the future, we can just predict based on the past and present. Both of those lean Mahomes 15 hours ago, John from Riverside said: It is not NEARLY that simple Tre WHite is a major part of our defense....which would be backing Mahommes up. KC wins by outscoring its opponents they do NOT have a good defense We’ll see how long it holds up, but KCs defense has been playing lights out. They haven’t given up a TD in 2 games and haven’t given up over 17 the past 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 8 minutes ago, Estro said: Imo, it was a disaster. This league is about your QB........and when you pass on a QB that looks like one of the best ever (when you needed a QB badly) that's a disaster. Judging by right now.........no question, passing on Mahomes when everyone knew you were going to have to draft a QB then or the following season just looks inexcusably horrible. Getting a great CB and high ceiling LB is better than not but a QB like Mahomes has the potential to be a franchise changer. Not just potentially 15 years of contention but it can grow your fanbase and increase the value of your franchise and maybe even get a stadium built(see Lucas Oil with Peyton Manning). But Allen could change the choice narrative. I can remember watching 1984 Dan Marino have by far the greatest season a QB had ever had and thinking how devastating it was that the Bills passed on him to select Jim Kelly. It also seemed like the Dolphins were about to embark on some kind of dynasty. Didn't actually happen though. In the long run the Dolphins got the better passer but the Bills played in the SB 4 times and mostly dominated Marino/Shula in the Kelly era............so it didn't turn out too bad. The other thing we don't know is what the state of QB play in the NFL is going to look like going forward. More teams have their QB of the present or future now than has been the case since the merger. It wasn't that long ago that more than half the league was shopping for their next QB.........now it's really just 6-8 teams annually and in some cases those teams have pretty decent QB's they are just looking to upgrade from. There has been a nice influx of young talented QB's in recent years............if that continues then perhaps a team like the Bills could actually get another shot at a great one if Allen fails instead of waiting a decade for their next shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 22 hours ago, NewEra said: It’s not a disaster. There isn’t a chief fan in the world that would take that trade back. There are many Bills fans that would. I’m as big a Tre and JA fan as there is, but Mahomes may eventually be the best QB ever. Emphasis on “may eventually be” Just wondering, those that are skeptical, confused etc.....why so? is it because I said Mahomes may eventually be the best Qb ever? is it because I didn’t say anything good about JA and Tre? this is about as true as it gets guys. I love our guys (JA and Tre) and I’m very happy with them. As this thread has proven, there are MANY bills fans that would prefer to have Mahomes over them. I’d love to see a poll on the chiefs website asking if they’d rather have Mahomes or JA+Tre. Fairly certain it would be 100% (minus trolls) for Mahomes. If Mahomes was the bills QB, he wouldn’t have been mvp last season and wouldn’t have the same career trajectory as he currently does. He certainly looks to be a sure fire HoF if he avoids injury imo. Best ever? Pushing it, but of all the current QBs, he has the best chance of becoming the best ever (Brady is already and I don’t see any other veterans like Brees or Rodgers passing him). That leaves the kids. Mahomes is the best of the bunch imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobbRiddicksTDLeap Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Estro said: Imo, it was a disaster. This league is about your QB........and when you pass on a QB that looks like one of the best ever (when you needed a QB badly) that's a disaster. It would be, if the Bills had drafted Josh Rosen. The fact that they drafted a QB who is showing a great deal of promise, doesn’t make it anything close to a disaster. Again, the revisionist history in this thread is hilarious. Mahomes was put in a perfect place to succeed. That place didn’t exist for him in Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yav Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 God I can’t stand this debate. I’m sick of all the Mahomes maybe the best ever. he’s throwing to the best and fastest WR in the game and he under throws him consistently, Hill makes incredible adjustments and makes great plays on a poorly thrown ball. Let it go. Dudes an OK QB nothing more and in 5-6 years after KC continues to win a ***** division and then gets bounced from the playoffs and Reed is let go MaJokes will be nothing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 (edited) 48 minutes ago, RobbRiddicksTDLeap said: It would be, if the Bills had drafted Josh Rosen. The fact that they drafted a QB who is showing a great deal of promise, doesn’t make it anything close to a disaster. Again, the revisionist history in this thread is hilarious. Mahomes was put in a perfect place to succeed. That place didn’t exist for him in Buffalo. This is a good post...the key is that Josh is still improving so fans can be hopeful...next year will be crucial... Edited December 28, 2019 by JaCrispy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 50 minutes ago, Yav said: God I can’t stand this debate. I’m sick of all the Mahomes maybe the best ever. he’s throwing to the best and fastest WR in the game and he under throws him consistently, Hill makes incredible adjustments and makes great plays on a poorly thrown ball. Let it go. Dudes an OK QB nothing more and in 5-6 years after KC continues to win a ***** division and then gets bounced from the playoffs and Reed is let go MaJokes will be nothing. He’s an “ok qb” lol. What is Josh Allen? 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 3 hours ago, JaCrispy said: This is correct... that’s why I said if Mahomes was on the Bills we would be Super Bowl favs...those extra picks used to move up for JA could have been used to draft secondary...but I get it- McD said he wasn’t ready to draft a QB... Agreed...unless JA can improve to anywhere near Mahomes status, NFL films will be replaying that trade for years to come- just like “wide right”. There is absolutely no way of knowing if those fantasy picks would have turned into tre white odds say they dont Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yav Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 1 hour ago, NewEra said: He’s an “ok qb” lol. What is Josh Allen? Oh that’s right, an opinion on here can somehow be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Yav said: Oh that’s right, an opinion on here can somehow be wrong. You can have any opinion you like. Just don’t get butthurt when people laugh at it. I asked before......if Mahomes is an “ok QB”, what is Josh Allen? Edited December 28, 2019 by NewEra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 I don’t want Mahomes at all. Now Burrow may be another story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddy KGB Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 2 hours ago, Yav said: Oh that’s right, an opinion on here can somehow be wrong. Your opinion is way way past wrong 50 tds paired with 12 int’s cements that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 23 hours ago, ArtVandalay said: It's not a total disaster but it's still a horrible trade for the Bills right now... And don't get me wrong, i love josh Allen and think he'll continue to grow, but he's no where near Mahomes level right now. If Allen continues to progress and gets int the conversation for being a Top 5 QB then we can reassess. That plus Tre? How would there be anything to reassess? Straight boss victory bro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerovoltz Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 6 hours ago, Yav said: God I can’t stand this debate. I’m sick of all the Mahomes maybe the best ever. he’s throwing to the best and fastest WR in the game and he under throws him consistently, Hill makes incredible adjustments and makes great plays on a poorly thrown ball. Let it go. Dudes an OK QB nothing more and in 5-6 years after KC continues to win a ***** division and then gets bounced from the playoffs and Reed is let go MaJokes will be nothing. What would have to happen to change your mind Yav? You've hated Mahomes from the beginning. you predicted he'd suck....and since he doesn't suck, you insist he only does anything because of the roster around him. Alex Smith didn't do much with the same roster. You do know KC CRUSHED the Ravens this year without their starting LT, without Hill, and without a RB..... Is there a rating system you like that suggests Mahomes sucks? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddy KGB Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 14 minutes ago, Zerovoltz said: Alex Smith didn't do much with the same roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerovoltz Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 9 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said: From a box score perspective, you might say he did well...and that wouldn't be wrong. He did. He was absolutely dreadful in the red zone....ranked like 31st in 2017 in Red zone comp%, TD% it was awful. Also not good on 3rd and long. notorius for throwing short of sticks. His stats don't show his deficiencies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 35 minutes ago, Zerovoltz said: What would have to happen to change your mind Yav? You've hated Mahomes from the beginning. you predicted he'd suck....and since he doesn't suck, you insist he only does anything because of the roster around him. Alex Smith didn't do much with the same roster. You do know KC CRUSHED the Ravens this year without their starting LT, without Hill, and without a RB..... Is there a rating system you like that suggests Mahomes sucks? Yeah, over 4,000 yards passing, 26 TDs, 5 INTs regular season, followed by a 2 TD, 0 INT playoff game in which the defense lost a 21-3 lead to the Titans .... Alex Smith didn't do crap with the same roster. You really need to stop. You can't back anything up that you say. It's all patently false information. By the way, last year, KC also were one and done, losing to the Titans ... except the Mahomes-led Chiefs never had a lead. Stop it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerovoltz Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 57 minutes ago, Gugny said: Yeah, over 4,000 yards passing, 26 TDs, 5 INTs regular season, followed by a 2 TD, 0 INT playoff game in which the defense lost a 21-3 lead to the Titans .... Alex Smith didn't do crap with the same roster. You really need to stop. You can't back anything up that you say. It's all patently false information. By the way, last year, KC also were one and done, losing to the Titans ... except the Mahomes-led Chiefs never had a lead. Stop it. What? Also....I pointed out where Smith came up short....and it wasn't in the stat line you get from the box score, and it wasn't QB Rating etc. ....Andy Ried didn't think Smith could win the big one....why would they move on from him and trade 2 firsts and 3rd for a guy alot of people were shaky about? Smith, with his 2 TD 0 INT performance also converted one 3rd down in he second half, and only 4 for the game total. This wasn't new. Smith ALWAYS valued ball security WAY more than risking a turnover to get conversions when you need them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 48 minutes ago, Zerovoltz said: What? Also....I pointed out where Smith came up short....and it wasn't in the stat line you get from the box score, and it wasn't QB Rating etc. ....Andy Ried didn't think Smith could win the big one....why would they move on from him and trade 2 firsts and 3rd for a guy alot of people were shaky about? Smith, with his 2 TD 0 INT performance also converted one 3rd down in he second half, and only 4 for the game total. This wasn't new. Smith ALWAYS valued ball security WAY more than risking a turnover to get conversions when you need them. You're wordsmithing ... again. You said Smith did nothing with the same roster. I provided factual statistics that proved you wrong. Now you're changing your narrative. It's getting old. Go hang out on the Chiefs fan site, or the Broncos, or wherever it is you claim to go. Your shtick is boring. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalScotts Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 On 12/27/2019 at 1:55 PM, NewEra said: It’s not a disaster. There isn’t a chief fan in the world that would take that trade back. There are many Bills fans that would. I’m as big a Tre and JA fan as there is, but Mahomes may eventually be the best QB ever. Emphasis on “may eventually be” my best friend is a diehard chief fan- it's Andy Reid Mahomes is good but Reid has been scheming guys open for 20 years and they arent tight windown throws they are high school open. From McNabb to Foles to even Kevin Kolb...made Michael Vick the best he's ever been then over to Alex Smith who never played better and now Mahomes, Even Matt Moore best qbr games of his career? This year at 38 years old for Reid. Dont misunderstand Mahomes is fantastic but they are loaded on offense with a master play caller who has proven it for 20+ years. That said he knows nothing about building a defense spends little draft or FA on it and they always fall short. But you can't argue Reid's play calling expertise and Mahomes now and they other prior being the benefactor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boca BIlls Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 On 12/27/2019 at 2:48 PM, BillsfaninSB said: Although Josh is still developing, can we put to rest the 2017 trade down was not a disaster? KC netted Mahones while the Bills landed White and then Allen the following year with the draft capital. Seems like a win-win deal right now. Yea the Bills messed up big in that one. Made Andy look like a god. 2 minutes ago, CardinalScotts said: my best friend is a diehard chief fan- it's Andy Reid Mahomes is good but Reid has been scheming guys open for 20 years and they arent tight windown throws they are high school open. From McNabb to Foles to even Kevin Kolb...made Michael Vick the best he's ever been then over to Alex Smith who never played better and now Mahomes, Even Matt Moore best qbr games of his career? This year at 38 years old for Reid. Dont misunderstand Mahomes is fantastic but they are loaded on offense with a master play caller who has proven it for 20+ years. That said he knows nothing about building a defense spends little draft or FA on it and they always fall short. But you can't argue Reid's play calling expertise and Mahomes now and they other prior being the benefactor. Stop right there... Andy never made any QB look that good. It's all on Mahomes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 11 minutes ago, CardinalScotts said: my best friend is a diehard chief fan- it's Andy Reid Mahomes is good but Reid has been scheming guys open for 20 years and they arent tight windown throws they are high school open. From McNabb to Foles to even Kevin Kolb...made Michael Vick the best he's ever been then over to Alex Smith who never played better and now Mahomes, Even Matt Moore best qbr games of his career? This year at 38 years old for Reid. Dont misunderstand Mahomes is fantastic but they are loaded on offense with a master play caller who has proven it for 20+ years. That said he knows nothing about building a defense spends little draft or FA on it and they always fall short. But you can't argue Reid's play calling expertise and Mahomes now and they other prior being the benefactor. Would your friend trade Mahomes for Allen and Tre? I agree, Reid is a qbs dream coach. He makes their life easy. If Mahomes was in Buffalo, he wouldn’t have won mvp and wouldn’t have near the hype. But he’d still be several steps ahead of JA imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalScotts Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Boca BIlls said: Yea the Bills messed up big in that one. Made Andy look like a god. Stop right there... Andy never made any QB look that good. It's all on Mahomes. do you want the truth McNabb not a hall of famer or even close BUT under Reid 6 pro bowls.....10 season 8 of them winning...5 seasons top 10 qb rating...8 years top 10 yds per game Vick pro bowl under Reid 100.2 rating also two seasons 86.5-84.3 after averaging 75.5 in Atlanta highest completion percentages of his career including 62.6 after never being better than 56.4 with Atl Nick Foles yep pro bowl under Reid 15-9 record 119.2 rating 27td 2int in a season 52 tds 17 picks with Reid Kevin Kolb only 7 starts completed over 63% of his passes and showed well enough to be traded for a second round pick and Rodgers Cromartie who was 25 and a pro bowl corner the year before Alex Smith pro bowl 3 times (zero with sf) qb ratings of 89.1--104.7--91.2--95.4--93.4 102 tds 33 picks....5 years all winning records 4 playoff appearances ya your right Andy has never made ANY quarterback look that good I'm going to take the word of a guy who watches every chief game has for 40 years and knows what he's looking at Edited December 29, 2019 by CardinalScotts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalScotts Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 the way he puts it....Reid put all assets into the offense its all he worries about its all he knows about he has sketchy Character he takes guys drafts guys you would raise and eyebrow over ....but then ignores the defense and he does it every year which is why he doesn't make the super bowl and they wont again. i have season tickets to chiefs home games and I go to 2 or 3 on the road they have guys running open all over but they should be we are loaded and Reid calls the plays Loves McDermott Allen not sure shows flashes but he's inconsistent and hes guys don't seem to seperate and they are all so tiny...could really use a Kelce when in trouble find the giant TE like Brady just an outside opinion from a guy who is pretty smart and know whats up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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