Bottom line is the Defense has to prevent an 80 yard TD drive and we win

[JerseyBills]

Yes Dabol called a TERRIBLE game. 

Singletary getting 8 carries in a 1 score gm is mind boggling and idiotic. Outsmarting yourself dropping Allen back 48 times!!

 

But we persevered through that and had a 4 point lead and this defense holds them to under 80 yards, we win the game. That was unacceptable . This unit has been intact for 2-3 years going against a 2nd year, erratic QB. Where was the pressure? Our D played great but when it counted most , failed pretty badly. Ugly , hurtful loss today. My only hope is this team gets stronger after this one. 

Just saw the Hughes replay, brutal

We should be 7-2 , Worse loss in years. 

 

Edit - For example,that Edmunds blitz was beautiful,Tre last week was a great blitz. Why aren't we attacking, using our 6'5 freakishly athletic mlb to rush the QB a little more.

Mayfield  has had a hard time vs pressure and we just sit back. This group deserves the opportunity. Terrible coaching down the stretch all around and I love McDermott. First gm I'm very disappointed in the coaching versus a coach and team we should have wiped the floor with

Edited November 11, 2019 by JerseyBills

[BrycePaup4ever]

Is this really the time to blame the defence. They have won a few games for us this year and despite that drive still played an alright game. They get a pass from me this time.

[oldmanfan]

True.  Can’t be too critical if the D after that goal line stand.  But they make the stop we win. 

[Best Player Available]

the goal line stand was epic!

[JerseyBills]

Just now, Best Player Available said:

the goal line stand was epic!

They both were, which makes that final drive all the more painful

[TheJauronClap]

7 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

Yes Dabol called a TERRIBLE game. 

Singletary getting 8 carries in a 1 score gm is mind boggling and idiotic. Outsmarting yourself dropping Allen back 48 times!!

 

But we persevered through that and had a 4 point lead and this defense holds them to under 80 yards, we win the game. That was unacceptable . This unit has been intact for 2-3 years going against a 2nd year, erratic QB. Where was the pressure? Our D played great but when it counted most , failed pretty badly. Ugly , hurtful loss today. My only hope is this team gets stronger after this one. 

Just saw the Hughes replay, brutal

We should be 7-2 , Worse loss in years. 

Dabol did not call a bad game josh missed throws to receivers that were open

Edited November 11, 2019 by TheJauronClap

[peterpan]

I just don't think we are getting good enough production from guys like Edmonds and Oliver.  Edmonds had a bad first half and a rough year.  Oliver is basically last on the depth chart behind guys off the practice squad and street free agents cut from .500 teams. 

 

Our run D goes to sheet when we lose our third round pick from last year, and our top ten pick from this year is nowhere to be seen. 

 

We should trade back and get dozens of 3-5 rounders apparently

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

Been saying this all day.  Offensive shares the burden of blame, no doubt about it.  However, regardless of how badass the goal line stands were today, the offense did get the lead with around 5:00 or just under to play and the defense allowed the Browns to methodically march down the field to take the lead.   At one time, Chubb carried like four five defenders on his back to get a first down.  Several times had them in 3rd down but kept giving up out patterns at the sticks.  

Edited November 11, 2019 by Lieutenant Aldo Raine

[BillsVet]

How many people on this board do not know how to spell the OC's name correctly?

 

D-A-B-O-L-L 

 

 

The defense was good enough to win today.  When you hold your opponent to 19 points and the offense can't score more, it's not a defensive issue.  

 

NFL defenses are not going to be the '85 Bears, '00 Ravens, or '02 Buccaneers and consistently hold teams to 10 points per.  Not happening. 

[Virgil]

2 minutes ago, peterpan said:

I just don't think we are getting good enough production from guys like Edmonds and Oliver.  Edmonds had a bad first half and a rough year.  Oliver is basically last on the depth chart behind guys off the practice squad and street free agents cut from .500 teams. 

 

Our run D goes to sheet when we lose our third round pick from last year, and our top ten pick from this year is nowhere to be seen. 

 

We should trade back and get dozens of 3-5 rounders apparently

 

First off, I want want our avatars to meet.

Second, aren't getting anything from Oliver.  I don't even know that I saw him out there today. 

[JerseyBills]

2 minutes ago, TheJauronClap said:

Dabol did not call a bad game josh missed throws to receivers that were open

But Josh Allen has NO BUSINESS dropping back 48 times compared to 13 RB carries in a 1 score football game!!

I was literally sick this man stopped running, your stud rookie is averaging 7 yards a touch, 5 ypc on the day , UNBILLEVABLE

2 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

Been saying this all day.  Offensive shares the burden of blame, no doubt about it.  However, regardless of how badass the goal line stands were today, the offense did get the lead with around 5:00 or just under to play and allowed the Browns to methodically march down the field to take the lead.   At one time, Chubb carried like four five defenders on his back to get a first down.  Several times had them in 3rd down but kept giving up out patterns at the sticks.  

Yup. This unit versus Mayfield and they failed.

Bars

 

But it's almost as they got more conservative, I think they should have had the confidence to be more aggressive on that drive. Brutal 

[TheJauronClap]

1 minute ago, JerseyBills said:

But Josh Allen has NO BUSINESS dropping back 48 times compared to 13 RB carries in a 1 score football game!!

I was literally sick this man stopped running, your stud rookie is averaging 7 yards a touch, 5 ypc on the day , UNBILLEVABLE

No business why say that? 

[Troll Toll]

They’ve invested so little in the offense in 3 years, in fact they have possibly given away more talent on offense than they have gained. The defense has had heavy investment in all 3 drafts and in FA. They should be held to a higher standard than the offense until that levels out.

[DuckyBoys]

Defense was not great today  Allowing the Browns to march 80 yards in the 4th quarter is not the hallmark of a veteran top 5 defense

[njbuff]

When you allow teams to run the ball on you, it really limits your offensive possessions, not that it matters with this team anyways.

 

It shouldn’t have come down to the final defensive drive, but it is what it is.

 

Once I saw the replay of the Hughes return, I knew the Bills goose was cooked on this game.

 

Move on to Miami.

[JerseyBills]

Just now, TheJauronClap said:

No business why say that? 

Because our RB averages 5 ypc and it was never more than a 1 possession game. I can't comprehend how you abandon the run today. It's really bothering me

[buffalo2218]

5 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

They both were, which makes that final drive all the more painful

Only scoring 14 points is as every bit as much to blame as that last drive. This defense has bailed out the offense all year with the exception of maybe the Giants. It's atrociously unfair for one side of the team to constantly bail out the other side. The offense hasn't pulled their weight for the majority of the year. The offense failed far more than the defense today only putting up 14, not to mention special teams *cough Hauschka*. Lack of execution on offense has kept this team in games closer than they should have been, and it's produced near losses as well. I won't put any part of today's loss on this defense. Yeah, they gave up some chunk yards today, and they stunk up the joint  against Philly. But the wins we have were more attributed to the defense. And with those wins came the masking of the offensive deficiencies

[Boatdrinks]

Nah, holding teams to 12 points on the road is a little bit high of a standard to expect all the time. More than 14 points on offense is not. It’s barely functional at the NFL level. The defense is more than functional, they’re pretty good. 

[njbuff]

1 minute ago, JerseyBills said:

Because our RB averages 5 ypc and it was never more than a 1 possession game. I can't comprehend how you abandon the run today. It's really bothering me

This team is who they are.

 

Until proven otherwise, they don’t have the football intelligence to compete with the big boys.

 

It’s just a fact of life we all have to accept.

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

Just now, buffalo2218 said:

Only scoring 14 points is as every bit as much to blame as that last drive. This defense has bailed out the offense all year with the exception of maybe the Giants. It's atrociously unfair for one side of the team to constantly bail out the other side. The offense hasn't pulled their weight for the majority of the year. The offense failed far more than the defense today only putting up 14, not to mention special teams *cough Hauschka*. Lack of execution on offense has kept this team in games closer than they should have been, and it's produced near losses as well. I won't put any part of today's loss on this defense. Yeah, they gave up some chunk yards today, and they stunk up the joint  against Philly. But the wins we have were more attributed to the defense. And with those wins came the masking of the offensive deficiencies

 

I don't think anyone is arguing that point at all.  The point is, the defense still had a chance to win the game (after the offense scored mind you), and all they had to do was stop the drive.  They didn't get it done on that drive and allowed the Browns to take the lead.  

1 minute ago, Boatdrinks said:

Nah, holding teams to 12 points on the road is a little bit high of a standard to expect all the time. More than 14 points on offense is not. It’s barely functional at the NFL level. The defense is more than functional, they’re pretty good. 

 

They are damn good; except on that final drive!

[wvbillsfan]

2 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

Because our RB averages 5 ypc and it was never more than a 1 possession game. I can't comprehend how you abandon the run today. It's really bothering me

That’s what Daboll does. It’s not on Daboll to run the ball. It’s on our HC to demand that HIS offensive coordinator run the ball. 
 

If Daboll refuses to willingly give it to our best playmaker McDermott has to demand and if he already has than Daboll shouldn’t have a job. 
 

 

[JerseyBills]

1 minute ago, buffalo2218 said:

Only scoring 14 points is as every bit as much to blame as that last drive. This defense has bailed out the offense all year with the exception of maybe the Giants. It's atrociously unfair for one side of the team to constantly bail out the other side. The offense hasn't pulled their weight for the majority of the year. The offense failed far more than the defense today only putting up 14, not to mention special teams *cough Hauschka*. Lack of execution on offense has kept this team in games closer than they should have been, and it's produced near losses as well. I won't put any part of today's loss on this defense. Yeah, they gave up some chunk yards today, and they stunk up the joint  against Philly. But the wins we have were more attributed to the defense. And with those wins came the masking of the offensive deficiencies

I completely agree with everything you said said, except I hold this D to a high standard. I expect them not to let Mayfield March 80 yards on them , I still think Hughes returned that fumble but that's irrelevant. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

24 minutes ago, BrycePaup4ever said:

Is this really the time to blame the defence. They have won a few games for us this year and despite that drive still played an alright game. They get a pass from me this time.

 

In the postgame presser, McDermott was getting some questions about why, week after week, the run D takes until the 2nd half to stiffen up

 

I think it’s fair.

 

I don’t think they get a pass.  They had some fantastic, unreal, unbelievable play.  That goal line stand was epic.  But they also got backed down the field multiple times, and they couldn’t get the stop at the end when it could have sealed the game.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

It's a team loss. Starts with McD, the defense and lack of turnovers, the kicker, and then Allen.  Daboll was fine. His scheme gets guys open.  Allen missed some throws and had one or two drops.  The o-line did ok run blocking and I would have been happy if Daboll had called a few more runs.  

At the end of the day, the defense needs to make a stop.  I have no issue with the blitz on the TD throw.  Wallace should be able to cover that guy 1:1 and make a play.  I have an issue with the lack of pressure the rest of the game on a QB who throws more picks than Allen.  Terrible. 

[Best Player Available]

7 minutes ago, Troll Toll said:

They’ve invested so little in the offense in 3 years, in fact they have possibly given away more talent on offense than they have gained. The defense has had heavy investment in all 3 drafts and in FA. They should be held to a higher standard than the offense until that levels out.

McD did give away offensive talent.

Bobby Woods.is really missed..wtf was he thinking? zay Jones? really.....

[LABILLBACKER]

21 minutes ago, BrycePaup4ever said:

Is this really the time to blame the defence. They have won a few games for us this year and despite that drive still played an alright game. They get a pass from me this time.

I will never blame the Defense this year. They're not perfect but they've carried this team all year. This whole season is a systematic breakdown of the offense under Daboll and Allen's inconsistencies. McDermott can't possibly stick with dumboll much longer. Singletary 8 touches is a disgrace. Huddling on the Browns 40 with 40 seconds left had screaming at the tv.....

[auburnbillsbacker]

They gave up 19 points on the road.  They did fine.

[Boatdrinks]

2 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

They are damn good; except on that final drive!

Except it wasn’t the final drive. The Bills got the ball back with about 1:40 on the clock and a timeout. You should win or tie that game 90% of the time. It’s a ton of time, and they couldn’t do it. Sometimes the team who has the ball last is going to win the game, and this should have been one of those times. NFL rules don’t favor the defense. 

[buffalo2218]

2 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

I completely agree with everything you said said, except I hold this D to a high standard. I expect them not to let Mayfield March 80 yards on them , I still think Hughes returned that fumble but that's irrelevant. 

Unfortunately, I think the coaching staff holds them to just as high a standard. We all knew this D was far from the one we've been accustomed to seeing before the bye. I think it's the offense's turn to at least play near the same level. The defense held the Browns to 12 points before that drive, and Hauschka missed 2 FGs that would have won us the game

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

I don't think anyone is arguing that point at all.  The point is, the defense still had a chance to win the game (after the offense scored mind you), and all they had to do was stop the drive.  They didn't get it done on that drive and allowed the Browns to take the lead.  

 

*Nods* 

 

In accident investigation, the protocol is that the largest share of blame goes to the last person or people who could have prevented the accident.

In this case, there is plenty of blame to go around.  Haushka could have made that kick.  The offense could have moved the ball better and gotten closer.  The coaches could have managed the clock better.  And prior to that, the defense could have gotten the stop.

 

4 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

They are damn good; except on that final drive!

 

The goal line stand was epic.

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

1 minute ago, Boatdrinks said:

Except it wasn’t the final drive. The Bills got the ball back with about 1:40 on the clock and a timeout. You should win or tie that game 90% of the time. It’s a ton of time, and they couldn’t do it. Sometimes the team who has the ball last is going to win the game, and this should have been one of those times. NFL rules don’t favor the defense. 

 

Except it was the Browns final drive.  So let me ask you this:  If the defense stops the Browns on that drive, do the Bills win?

[buffalo2218]

Just now, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

Except it was the Browns final drive.  So let me ask you this:  If the defense stops the Browns on that drive, do the Bills win?

You can't throw ifs on one specific issue. My god the list is far longer than a lack of a defensive stop on the Browns' last drive

[LABILLBACKER]

21 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

How many people on this board do not know how to spell the OC's name correctly?

 

D-A-B-O-L-L 

 

 

The defense was good enough to win today.  When you hold your opponent to 19 points and the offense can't score more, it's not a defensive issue.  

 

NFL defenses are not going to be the '85 Bears, '00 Ravens, or '02 Buccaneers and consistently hold teams to 10 points per.  Not happening. 

2 L's in Daboll.....one for this week...one for next week...this offense is a 17 pt. per game joke.

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

Just now, buffalo2218 said:

You can't throw ifs on one specific issue. My god the list is far longer than a lack of a defensive stop on the Browns' last drive

Answer the question

[Boatdrinks]

Just now, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

Except it was the Browns final drive.  So let me ask you this:  If the defense stops the Browns on that drive, do the Bills win?

Possibly. It depends how much time was left when the drive ended, where the Bills got the ball etc etc. If the Bills score a TD on their final possession the game is almost certainly over. The defense is above average. They can’t always cover for a bottom 5 or so offense. Football rules aren’t set up that way. The offense has to do its part. 

[BillsVet]

5 minutes ago, wvbillsfan said:

That’s what Daboll does. It’s not on Daboll to run the ball. It’s on our HC to demand that HIS offensive coordinator run the ball. 
 

If Daboll refuses to willingly give it to our best playmaker McDermott has to demand and if he already has than Daboll shouldn’t have a job. 

 

I want to think that their game-planning process requires the offense and defense to complement their strategy.  As a result, I'd like to think the offense would run the ball to maintain possession, keep Cleveland's offense off the field, and keep the defense rested.  

 

But no (in John Belushi voice) the OC chose to attack Cleveland's 6th ranked pass defense and held off on going at their 30th ranked run defense.

 

McD strikes me as a guy who wants to be the defensive version of Chan Gailey.  As in, abdicate responsibility for the side opposite what he knows and trust it'll work out.  Then it doesn't and he's left to explain what went wrong.  You'd think something has to give by now, but beating lower echelon teams probably has delayed the HC demanding the OC make some play-calling changes. 

[buffalo2218]

Just now, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

Answer the question

No because it just raises other questions. What if Daboll wasn't a complete moron and actually went for a 3 yard pickup on 3rd and 3 instead of a 50 yard bomb close to midfield? What if Hauschka makes those FGs? What if the Bills ran the ball more instead of abandoning it? Any of those could have contributed to a win

[CaptnCoke11]

32 minutes ago, Best Player Available said:

the goal line stand was epic!

Yay.. they still lost

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

Just now, Boatdrinks said:

Possibly. It depends how much time was left when the drive ended, where the Bills got the ball etc etc. If the Bills score a TD on their final possession the game is almost certainly over. The defense is above average. They can’t always cover for a bottom 5 or so offense. Football rules aren’t set up that way. The offense has to do its part. 

 

I agree, and I don't pin the loss on the defense as a whole.  As I said earlier, the lack of offensive production is the bigger issue.  But, I'm just saying, the defense had an opportunity to essentially close it out with a stop.  It didn't happen, it is what is.  

1 minute ago, buffalo2218 said:

No because it just raises other questions. What if Daboll wasn't a complete moron and actually went for a 3 yard pickup on 3rd and 3 instead of a 50 yard bomb close to midfield? What if Hauschka makes those FGs? What if the Bills ran the ball more instead of abandoning it? Any of those could have contributed to a win

 

Stay with me here, we are simply talking about the final (Brown's) drive as the OP stated in the opening.  Yes all those other what-if's contributed, but we aren't talking about those things at the present time the Browns had the ball with 80 yds to go for a game leading (eventual winning) touchdown.

[eanyills]

9 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Except it wasn’t the final drive. The Bills got the ball back with about 1:40 on the clock and a timeout. You should win or tie that game 90% of the time. It’s a ton of time, and they couldn’t do it.

Hey look, made up stats. Real statistics are about 25% of the time.