Fixing NFL Divisional Structure

[dollars 2 donuts]

On 11/5/2019 at 1:32 PM, corta765 said:

With the talk of a possible London team and many proposals for divisional changes I wanted to explain an idea I had which in my eyes would completely balance the league and the playoffs. It looks like this:

 

AFC East: BUF, NE, MIA, NYJ, PIT, CIN, CLE, BAL

AFC West: KC, OAK, DEN, LAC, IND, HOU, TEN, JAX

NFC East: PHI, DAL, NYG, WAS, ATL, TB, CAR, NOLA

NFC West: SEA, ARZ, LAR, SF, DET, GB, MIN, CHI

 

Schedule wise it works like this you play everyone in your division once with a single additional game against your former division rival (aka BUF would play NE, MIA, NYJ on a rotating basis). Then you would crossover against the other division playing four of the teams there and the next season playing the four you didn't. And with the NFC we would do it the same way the NFL does with four team a year rotating.

 

For the playoffs division winners are guaranteed homefield, but the top two records get the bye. So potentially the top two teams in each conference could be from the same division.

 

Here are the advantages:

-Far more balanced schedule where you play 75% of your conference yearly

-Better chance for bigger matchups on a more routine basis

-Playoffs would finally allow wildcards to host playoff games again

-You would never see an 8-8 7-9 division champion again

-Rivalries would be created with Buffalo playing close foes like PIT and CLE yearly and same for other matchups

 

It looks like if a team moves to London it probably is coming from the AFC. If the Jags or Chargers move you would just switch MIA into their place. Probably not the fairest thing for the Phins but that is a casualty of the NFL's obsession to go to London.

 

 

I have a long history of digging Corta...not going to change that now.

[class_of_2012]

On 11/5/2019 at 10:57 AM, SJDK said:

I think the league should re-align to have divisions that make sense.

 

AFC EAST:

Buff

NE

NYJ

BAL

 

AFC SOUTH:

MIAMI

HOUSTON

TENN

JACKSONVILLE

 

AFC NORTH:

INDI

CLE

PITT

CINCI

 

AFC WEST:

RAIDERS

BRONCOS

CHIEFS

CHARGERS

 

NFC EAST:

GIANTS

PHILI

WASHINGTON

CAROLINA

 

NFC SOUTH: 

ATLANTA

NO

DALLAS

TAMPA

 

NFC NORTH:

CHI

MIN

GB

DET

 

NFC WEST:

SF

ARI

SEA

RAMS

 

 

Won't happen as the NFL won't allow the Buffalo-Miami rivalry to end. Or Dallas-Philadelphia.

[ExiledInIllinois]

I like when they put a southern team in a northern division.  Nice to mix it up with weather.  Southern teams play in snow.  Northern teams get a break and head south when cold out.

Edited November 7, 2019 by ExiledInIllinois

[row_33]

The NFC East is the crown jewel of the NFL and its broadcasting empire

 

stop wishing Dallas would be moved out of it...

 

[SoCal Deek]

13 hours ago, Dopey said:

Heard on WGR this morning that playing in London is not gonna work unless there is a change in the tax structure in London(good luck). They mentioned a player making $28 million a year in London would take home $7 Million of it. No way that will fly with players or the NFLPA. I don't have any links to articles, just heard it on the radio this morning. 

What's the problem...if Warren or Sanders gets elected the player making $28Million will think getting to keep $7Million is a sweet deal!

[GunnerBill]

On 11/5/2019 at 10:16 PM, MJS said:

I guess I'm boring. I would just keep it the same.

 

Me too. 

[GunnerBill]

18 hours ago, Dopey said:

Heard on WGR this morning that playing in London is not gonna work unless there is a change in the tax structure in London(good luck). They mentioned a player making $28 million a year in London would take home $7 Million of it. No way that will fly with players or the NFLPA. I don't have any links to articles, just heard it on the radio this morning. 

 

I would be interested in hearing that calculation because by my reckoning it is wrong. We have no such thing as state tax we have a national income tax. The threshold for high earners in 50% on earnings over £200,000. My working out on that means you get paid $28m a year you would take home about $14m a year. 

 

And that is before all the tricks you can use to reduce your tax liability. If you really kept a quarter of your income do you really think the world's best soccer players would continue to flood into the UK? 

[GunnerBill]

8 hours ago, row_33 said:

The NFC East is the crown jewel of the NFL and its broadcasting empire

 

stop wishing Dallas would be moved out of it...

 

 

This. Four big market teams in a single division playing 12 head to heads a season. The NFL is not messing with that. Nor is it messing with the handful of other rivalries which are guaranteed TV numbers: Green Bay - Chicago; Baltimore - Pittsburgh; Seattle - San Francisco. There is a reason that even in seasons where one or other of these teams is down for some reason they still have those matchups I'm prime time slots.

[peterpan]

Playing 3 teams twice per year in football is just stupid.   8 team divisions would make the league better and each game more important.  For example, we lost to NE, but since we play them again, if we beat them, we can win the division.  This makes our first meeting with those cheaters less meaningful.  

 

It would also give the best teams a chance to make the playoffs.  We have seen a few duds HOST playoff games in the current setup.  Realigning would also give teams like the Bills an actual shot at making the playoffs, I stead of getting buried under a dynasty like the cheaters for TWENTY FREAKING YEARS.

[HOUSE]

 

AFC East: BUF, MIA, CIN, Washington, Atlanta

 

 

Edited November 7, 2019 by HOUSE

[corta765]

10 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

I like when they put a southern team in a northern division.  Nice to mix it up with weather.  Southern teams play in snow.  Northern teams get a break and head south when cold out.

 

One of the things I like with the NFL is the fact its not an East v West conference setup and the divisions are a little unique across the board. Having gone to Miami twice I would hate to lose that.

[ExiledInIllinois]

16 minutes ago, corta765 said:

 

One of the things I like with the NFL is the fact its not an East v West conference setup and the divisions are a little unique across the board. Having gone to Miami twice I would hate to lose that.

Exactly... Because historically, domes are unnatural, football is weather driven.  Weather is part of the game.  Important aspect of game.

 

Teams shouldn't play in all perfect weather.  Teams shouldn't play in all bad weather.  Gotta learn to huff it in the heat and wheel it through the snow and slop.

[row_33]

should make it an 18 team Champions League and a 14 team Scrub League.

 

Bottom four in the CL are relegated and the top 4 in the Scrub are promoted at year end.

 

See what teams stay in the Scrub until well past 2050.

 

 

 

 

[CLTbills]

On 11/5/2019 at 3:46 PM, Bangarang said:

Do players actually care about such a thing?

It doesn't matter what the players care about. It's what the TV networks care about.

 

The 17-game schedule would (somewhat) alleviate this though. Getting 2 interconference games every year instead of one.

[reddogblitz]

On 11/5/2019 at 6:03 PM, Nextmanup said:

Further, rivalries are a myth that actually means something only to fans.

 

how do you know this?

[Matt_In_NH]

For the NFL, the marquee matchups are often divisional based on rivalries.  Having the home and away games are important and set up important "revenge games".    I don't think you will get away from that.    You could change up who is in what division but I dont think you are getting rid of the number of divisions. I think it is good how it is.   But if you want to move the Pats to the NFC for the Cardinals, I would be for that.

[row_33]

just simply award the Super Bowl to the Browns

 

[BuffBillsForLife]

Somewhere, in another time and place, the rustbelt division exists and it is glorious.  Let the other 28 teams compete for the super bowl, we're competing for Lake Erie dominance.

BUF

PIT

CLE

DET

[corta765]

2 minutes ago, BuffBillsForLife said:

Somewhere, in another time and place, the rustbelt division exists and it is glorious.  Let the other 28 teams compete for the super bowl, we're competing for Lake Erie dominance.

BUF

PIT

CLE

DET

 

Honestly I have no desire for this at any point. I get why some do but I like having the division where you can travel to Boston NYC or Miami. Going to PIT CLE DET is like visiting Buffalo which I don't need to do regularly.

[BuffBillsForLife]

3 minutes ago, corta765 said:

 

Honestly I have no desire for this at any point. I get why some do but I like having the division where you can travel to Boston NYC or Miami. Going to PIT CLE DET is like visiting Buffalo which I don't need to do regularly.

If two cities are both geographically close and culturally similar, you'll be able to grow a much stronger rivalry between the two teams, which is what having division opponents you play twice a year is all about.  What does Buffalo have in common with Miami or NYC?  If you just want to view your division rivals as an annual vacation you're missing the point of divisions entirely and you may as well just scrap divisions and do 16 team conference blobs instead. 

Even in a hypothetical rustbelt division, you would have 3-4 road games a year in more "interesting" cities you could go to.

[row_33]

10 minutes ago, BuffBillsForLife said:

Somewhere, in another time and place, the rustbelt division exists and it is glorious.  Let the other 28 teams compete for the super bowl, we're competing for Lake Erie dominance.

BUF

PIT

CLE

DET

 

that's the 4 NFL stadiums that i've been to for almost all my 200 or so games

 

 

[May Day 10]

10 minutes ago, BuffBillsForLife said:

If two cities are both geographically close and culturally similar, you'll be able to grow a much stronger rivalry between the two teams, which is what having division opponents you play twice a year is all about.  What does Buffalo have in common with Miami or NYC?  If you just want to view your division rivals as an annual vacation you're missing the point of divisions entirely and you may as well just scrap divisions and do 16 team conference blobs instead. 

Even in a hypothetical rustbelt division, you would have 3-4 road games a year in more "interesting" cities you could go to.

 

Yeah.  Boston, NYC, and Miami have very little in common with Buffalo culturally or sports-wise.  We are nothing to the average Boston or NYC sports fan.  Miami people dont even care.  

 

 

If Cleveland were 6-2 and getting hyped, while we were 2-6.  I would legit feel jealousy.  It would be really easy to flip the hate switch on Pittsburgh as well.  

[corta765]

1 hour ago, BuffBillsForLife said:

If two cities are both geographically close and culturally similar, you'll be able to grow a much stronger rivalry between the two teams, which is what having division opponents you play twice a year is all about.  What does Buffalo have in common with Miami or NYC?  If you just want to view your division rivals as an annual vacation you're missing the point of divisions entirely and you may as well just scrap divisions and do 16 team conference blobs instead. 

Even in a hypothetical rustbelt division, you would have 3-4 road games a year in more "interesting" cities you could go to.

 

Buffalo has nothing in common with NYC or Miami which is part of the fun. Back in the Marino Kelly days it was the blue collar vs the beach people and it was awesome. Rivalries in generally are highly overrated and only matter if your winning which goes back to my point of the NFL is more interesting with the divisions in a slightly strange structure the a basic boring regional one which every other sport does.

[Nextmanup]

13 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

how do you know this?

I guess from the 10 trillion player interviews I've seen in all sports for decades, the pro athletes I have personally known or talked to, and the general landscape of the sporting world in the 21st century.

 

Rivalries are a thing for fans, created by fans, and discussed by fans.  They are the only piece of the sports machine that sticks around long enough for the "rivalry" to have any meaning.   

 

Players approach the whole thing for what it is: a business.

 

 

[reddogblitz]

13 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

I guess from the 10 trillion player interviews I've seen in all sports for decades, the pro athletes I have personally known or talked to, and the general landscape of the sporting world in the 21st century.

 

Rivalries are a thing for fans, created by fans, and discussed by fans.  They are the only piece of the sports machine that sticks around long enough for the "rivalry" to have any meaning.   

 

Players approach the whole thing for what it is: a business.

 

 

 

Thanks for explaining.  I must have missed those 10 trillion interviews.

 

I'm just thinking back to the 70s when I was a Cowboy fan and our rivalry was intense with Washington and NY and Philadelphia.  The players said so too.

 

When Jim Kelly comes out on the field before a game and says to the crowd "Now, let's squish some fish" it makes me think it was an epic rivalry for him (I was at that game.)  But maybe he is just doing it because he doesn't play anymore.

 

But that was back when real men played football and there was not as much money involved so perhaps you are right.

Edited November 8, 2019 by reddogblitz

[row_33]

you can't have a rivalry when both teams have sucked for 2 decades or one team has beaten the living pus out of the other for those 2 decades.

 

[May Day 10]

10 minutes ago, row_33 said:

you can't have a rivalry when both teams have sucked for 2 decades or one team has beaten the living pus out of the other for those 2 decades.

 

 

Its all predicated on situation.  There are only certain rivalries that are blood feuds that endure (PIT/CLE), (CHI/GB) (KC/OAK), (NFC East) for example.  And yes, for the most part its a fan thing unless the teams are battling at the top of a division.

 

Seattle/San Francisco is a good example of a rivalry that was predicated on the teams being good. They were in different conferences for a generation.  A few years ago, it was a battle for a few seasons, then San Francisco went into the tank and it fizzled.  Now its back again.

 

 

Personally, I dont think anything is lost if the Bills de-coupled with Miami, the Jets, and NE.  I am kind of sick of seeing them for 6 games of 16 every single season.  

[row_33]

9 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

 

Its all predicated on situation.  There are only certain rivalries that are blood feuds that endure (PIT/CLE), (CHI/GB) (KC/OAK), (NFC East) for example.  And yes, for the most part its a fan thing unless the teams are battling at the top of a division.

 

Seattle/San Francisco is a good example of a rivalry that was predicated on the teams being good. They were in different conferences for a generation.  A few years ago, it was a battle for a few seasons, then San Francisco went into the tank and it fizzled.  Now its back again.

 

 

Personally, I dont think anything is lost if the Bills de-coupled with Miami, the Jets, and NE.  I am kind of sick of seeing them for 6 games of 16 every single season.  

 

The Leafs and Canadiens allegedly have one but haven't played in the playoffs since 1978. Came close in 1993.....

 

 

[Greg S]

1 minute ago, May Day 10 said:

 

Its all predicated on situation.  There are only certain rivalries that are blood feuds that endure (PIT/CLE), (CHI/GB) (KC/OAK), (NFC East) for example.  And yes, for the most part its a fan thing unless the teams are battling at the top of a division.

 

Seattle/San Francisco is a good example of a rivalry that was predicated on the teams being good. They were in different conferences for a generation.  A few years ago, it was a battle for a few seasons, then San Francisco went into the tank and it fizzled.  Now its back again.

 

 

Personally, I dont think anything is lost if the Bills de-coupled with Miami, the Jets, and NE.  I am kind of sick of seeing them for 6 games of 16 every single season.  

 

If the Jets get their act together and the Bills continue to improve then I can see this rivalry heating up. Both teams have potential franchise QB's they are trying to build around. If these teams start battling for the division and meeting in the playoffs then it will be another great rivalry just like the Bills and Fins were during the Kelly/Marino days only with Allen and Darnold.

[Mr. WEO]

Deja vu all over again...

[row_33]

12 minutes ago, Greg S said:

 

If the Jets get their act together and the Bills continue to improve then I can see this rivalry heating up. Both teams have potential franchise QB's they are trying to build around. If these teams start battling for the division and meeting in the playoffs then it will be another great rivalry just like the Bills and Fins were during the Kelly/Marino days only with Allen and Darnold.

 

it was fun to hate on Joe Namath, hasn't been quite the same for Chad Pennington or Richard Todd

 

[Wayne Cubed]

On 11/7/2019 at 9:05 AM, GunnerBill said:

 

I would be interested in hearing that calculation because by my reckoning it is wrong. We have no such thing as state tax we have a national income tax. The threshold for high earners in 50% on earnings over £200,000. My working out on that means you get paid $28m a year you would take home about $14m a year. 

 

And that is before all the tricks you can use to reduce your tax liability. If you really kept a quarter of your income do you really think the world's best soccer players would continue to flood into the UK? 

The problem is, as American citizens, working outside the US, you have to pay American taxes as well. Not sure if you remember Boris complaining about it because he held American citizenship. Anything you earn outside the US over $160,000 you have to pay American tax on. So a player earning $28m here will pay $14m to the British government leaving them with $14m, then take away the $160,000 exemption, they would then have to pay US tax on $13.86m. That would get taxed at 45% leaving them with roughly $7.6m.

 

Perks of being a US citizen, so they say. I’m sure there are ways around it, I have no idea how Chelsea is doing it with Pulisic but obviously there is a way for them because I can’t imagine he’s giving up that much money.

[row_33]

8 minutes ago, Wayne Cubed said:

The problem is, as American citizens, working outside the US, you have to pay American taxes as well. Not sure if you remember Boris complaining about it because he held American citizenship. Anything you earn outside the US over $160,000 you have to pay American tax on. So a player earning $28m here will pay $14m to the British government leaving them with $14m, then take away the $160,000 exemption, they would then have to pay US tax on $13.86m. That would get taxed at 45% leaving them with roughly $7.6m.

 

Perks of being a US citizen, so they say. I’m sure there are ways around it, I have no idea how Chelsea is doing it with Pulisic but obviously there is a way for them because I can’t imagine he’s giving up that much money.

 

for star athletes and other making $millions a side deal is cut in 2 seconds

[Wayne Cubed]

9 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

for star athletes and other making $millions a side deal is cut in 2 seconds

Oh I’m sure, I’m just explaining where they got that number from.
 

Although Boris Johnson, the former Mayor of London and sort of current Prime Minister has dual citizenship or did, I’m not sure anymore, and he would always complain about having to pay US taxes.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Wayne Cubed said:

The problem is, as American citizens, working outside the US, you have to pay American taxes as well. Not sure if you remember Boris complaining about it because he held American citizenship. Anything you earn outside the US over $160,000 you have to pay American tax on. So a player earning $28m here will pay $14m to the British government leaving them with $14m, then take away the $160,000 exemption, they would then have to pay US tax on $13.86m. That would get taxed at 45% leaving them with roughly $7.6m.

 

Perks of being a US citizen, so they say. I’m sure there are ways around it, I have no idea how Chelsea is doing it with Pulisic but obviously there is a way for them because I can’t imagine he’s giving up that much money.

 

Yea I got it after my chat with @MAJBobby. The problem is the America tax system causes a double charge. 

[Boatdrinks]

20 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

I guess from the 10 trillion player interviews I've seen in all sports for decades, the pro athletes I have personally known or talked to, and the general landscape of the sporting world in the 21st century.

 

Rivalries are a thing for fans, created by fans, and discussed by fans.  They are the only piece of the sports machine that sticks around long enough for the "rivalry" to have any meaning.   

 

Players approach the whole thing for what it is: a business.

 

 

Which is fine, but the league is really about getting fans to watch on TV. The fans care about rivalries, which is why the NFL has always thought them to be important. If players, not fans cared about rivalries the NFL wouldn’t care at all. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Get rid of all the divisions. I would rather play against all teams more frequently. Maybe keep one traditional rivalry game and then just put everyone on a rotation. I hate the fact it might be another decade before Bills visit Lambeau. 

Top 6 or 8 in each conference make the playoffs. The fact a 7-9 Seattle team made the playoffs over other teams with winning records should have killed off the divisions. 

 

1 hour ago, Boatdrinks said:

Which is fine, but the league is really about getting fans to watch on TV. The fans care about rivalries, which is why the NFL has always thought them to be important. If players, not fans cared about rivalries the NFL wouldn’t care at all. 

Bears Packers

Cowboys Giants

Steelers Browns

What other rivalries really have any meaning in NFL? Like my other post I would be ok with one rivalry game for each team but it will be hard to define. Is it Miami or Jets for Bills? What is the rivalry game for Arizona or Tampa?