Let Josh be Josh?

[Real McClappy]

13 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

This thread needs to be bumped after today

The premise of the thread is good.

However, give Josh a consistent running game to take the early pressure off his shoulders. Almost all top QB's of the recent era had strong running games while or during QB development 2-3 year mark. 

We all want this juggernaut "modern day" NFL pass happy team but with our current players and Josh's raw ability he needs some more support to take pressure off. 

Edited November 11, 2019 by Real McCoy

[london_bills]

Just now, Royale with Cheese said:

Yeah Daboll could be better but Allen still doesn’t do things you would want from a guy after 20 starts.

Wouldn't be shocked if mcdermott wants a different QB. Last drive was odd

[transplantbillsfan]

2 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

He threw 41 times....

 

We're you actually watching that game?

[transplantbillsfan]

2 hours ago, Real McCoy said:

The premise of the thread is good.

However, give Josh a consistent running game to take the early pressure off his shoulders. Almost all top QB's of the recent era had strong running games while or during QB development 2-3 year mark. 

We all want this juggernaut "modern day" NFL pass happy team but with our current players and Josh's raw ability he needs some more support to take pressure off. 

 

Except our OC is an idiot and only gives our best RB the ball 8 times.

Edited November 11, 2019 by transplantbillsfan

[Bangarang]

1 minute ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Except our OC is an idiot and only gives our best RB the ball 8 times.

The blame is part Daboll and part Allen. Pretending otherwise is just foolish.

[Billever76]

2 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Yeah Daboll could be better but Allen still doesn’t do things you would want from a guy after 20 starts.

Allen has 20 starts yet dabol has multiple years calling an nfl offense with his best being #24 with multiple dead last #32 rankings...allen doesnt take this blame until the experienced coach who has looked much worse gets the hell out of Buffalo...he is ruining allen

 

Edited November 11, 2019 by Billever76

[transplantbillsfan]

5 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

The blame is part Daboll and part Allen. Pretending otherwise is just foolish.

 

Some of the responsibility ALWAYS falls on the QB.

 

Of course it's part Allen and part Daboll.

 

It's just that it's not equal parts.

[Bangarang]

2 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Some of the responsibility ALWAYS falls on the QB.

 

Of course it's part Allen and part Daboll.

 

It's just that it's not equal parts.

I think I know who you think deserves more blame here. I probably wouldn’t disagree but I suspect you think the gap is bigger than it should be. 
 

Daboll is a problem and so is Allen. I don’t think firing Daboll magically makes Allen a better passer (you may not either)

Edited November 11, 2019 by Bangarang

[london_bills]

4 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Some of the responsibility ALWAYS falls on the QB.

 

Of course it's part Allen and part Daboll.

 

It's just that it's not equal parts.

It's never 100 percent one no. 

[Best Player Available]

4 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Some of the responsibility ALWAYS falls on the QB.

 

Of course it's part Allen and part Daboll.

 

It's just that it's not equal parts.

Can't let the o-line slide without some blame today. 

There still is a lot of work to be done in particular the tackles. 

[oldmanfan]

Give the keys to the kid and let him drive the car.  Audibles,  no huddle.  Singletary in the field.  He’s good in the fourth, play the entire game that way.

[Royale with Cheese]

25 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

We're you actually watching that game?

Yes.  Trans...there’s no reason to go back and forth.  You set the bar so low for Bills QB’s and it’s not worth arguing.  
 

Allen was not good enough today.  It’s that simple.

[zow2]

I’d pretty much have Josh rolling out or scrambling around on most pass plays. He’s at his best improvising. He’s at his most mediocre when he’s standing back there surveying the field like Matt Ryan. 

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

Just listened to Josh's post-game presser and he admitted part of his issues in the long ball is mental; stating the thought is in his head about under throwing the ball and putting the ball in jeopardy.  While Josh is ultimately responsible, I think the emphasis on protecting the football, hero ball, etc is forcing him to overthrow the ball and subconsciously thinking only his guy will have a chance at the ball, thus an overthrow.   Obviously something is in is head on those, because all his other throws are coming out more naturally.  

[transplantbillsfan]

3 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

I think I know who you think deserves more blame here. I probably wouldn’t disagree but I suspect you think the gap is bigger than it should be. 
 

Daboll is a problem and so is Allen. I don’t think firing Daboll magically makes Allen a better passer (you may not either)

 

Other than the deep ball, Allen is fine as a passer.

 

Hell , let him run the damn plays himself.

 

Let him sit in the shotgun and pass and tell him to run when he sees open field in front of him.

 

Another irritating thing with Daboll are the designed runs.

 

Allen is effective as a runner primarily on passing plays after things have broken down and he choses to run. Last year his average YPC on scrambles was more than double what it was on designed runs. 

[Billever76]

15 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

I think I know who you think deserves more blame here. I probably wouldn’t disagree but I suspect you think the gap is bigger than it should be. 
 

Daboll is a problem and so is Allen. I don’t think firing Daboll magically makes Allen a better passer (you may not either)

Dabol is 60% at fault for our offenses play...the other 40% is oline,allen,penalties and drops..and since imo daboll is over half to blame he is the weak link period...he is the head of the offense and he doesnt call to his teams strength..him passing the ball 41 times and running it only 15 is right there to see...same with the philly game in 45mph winds..still a pass happy game..smh

[Bangarang]

4 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Other than the deep ball, Allen is fine as a passer.

 

Hell , let him run the damn plays himself.

 

Let him sit in the shotgun and pass and tell him to run when he sees open field in front of him.

 

Another irritating thing with Daboll are the designed runs.

 

Allen is effective as a runner primarily on passing plays after things have broken down and he choses to run. Last year his average YPC on scrambles was more than double what it was on designed runs. 

I have no problem with throwing a lot. I also have no problem with given Allen the freedom to do whatever he wants at the line (I think he already has that freedom). 
 

At the end of the day though, I obviously don’t think Allen is as good as you think he is.

 

Just the other week I posted a chart that showed Allen was one of the worst rated passers in the league when facing a blitz. So yeah, maybe with a clean pocket and enough time he’s a fine a passer, but unlucky for him QBs don’t have that luxury on majority of their snaps.

[transplantbillsfan]

29 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Yes.  Trans...there’s no reason to go back and forth.  You set the bar so low for Bills QB’s and it’s not worth arguing.  
 

Allen was not good enough today.  It’s that simple.

 

No. I'm sorry but you're just wrong here.

 

Yeah, Allen threw the ball 41 times.

 

17 of those passes were when the game was basically turned over to Allen on the last drive of the 1st half and the last drive of the game. Between those 2 drives that took up less than 5 minutes of the over 28 minutes of TOP we had, Allen threw 17 times for 165 yards, was 3/5 on 3rd down conversions, including a 3rd and 13 after an offensive penalty put him and the team in a precarious situation--Lee Smith, if you're reading this... STOP DOING THAT!!!

 

Allen was 9/17 for 165 for a 9.7 YPA on those 2 drives in those less than 5 minutes

 

For the other 23+ minutes of the game pretty clearly called by Daboll, he was 13/24 for 101 yards for a 4.2 YPA.

 

The OP is right. Let Josh be Josh. Maybe he should just be handed the ability to call his own plays all game on Sundays.

18 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

I have no problem with throwing a lot. I also have no problem with given Allen the freedom to do whatever he wants at the line (I think he already has that freedom). 

 

Disagree that he's given that freedom in any real sense.

 

Maybe he's told he has it, but I definitely agree with the premise of this thread that Daboll and McDermott are trying to rein him in.

 

Just look at the wild disparity in 2 drives to end each half vs the rest of the game.

[transplantbillsfan]

37 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Give the keys to the kid and let him drive the car.  Audibles,  no huddle.  Singletary in the field.  He’s good in the fourth, play the entire game that way.

 

He's good any time he's given the keys. He was good to end the 1st half, too.

[Bangarang]

6 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

No. I'm sorry but you're just wrong here.

 

Yeah, Allen threw the ball 41 times.

 

17 of those passes were when the game was basically turned over to Allen on the last drive of the 1st half and the last drive of the game. Between those 2 drives that took up less than 5 minutes of the over 28 minutes of TOP we had, Allen threw 17 times for 165 yards, was 3/5 on 3rd down conversions, including a 3rd and 13 after an offensive penalty put him and the team in a precarious situation--Lee Smith, if you're reading this... STOP DOING THAT!!!

 

Allen was 9/17 for 165 for a 9.7 YPA on those 2 drives in those less than 5 minutes

 

For the other 23+ minutes of the game pretty clearly called by Daboll, he was 13/24 for 101 yards for a 4.2 YPA.

 

The OP is right. Let Josh be Josh. Maybe he should just be handed the ability to call his own plays all game on Sundays.

 

Disagree that he's given that freedom in any real sense.

 

Maybe he's told he has it, but I definitely agree with the premise of this thread that Daboll and McDermott are trying to rein him in.

 

Just look at the wild disparity in 2 drives to end each half vs the rest of the game.

Well of course you disagree with anything that may suggest Allen isn’t the MVP candidate type of player you want him to be. 

[Royale with Cheese]

6 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

No. I'm sorry but you're just wrong here.

 

Yeah, Allen threw the ball 41 times.

 

17 of those passes were when the game was basically turned over to Allen on the last drive of the 1st half and the last drive of the game. Between those 2 drives that took up less than 5 minutes of the over 28 minutes of TOP we had, Allen threw 17 times for 165 yards, was 3/5 on 3rd down conversions, including a 3rd and 13 after an offensive penalty put him and the team in a precarious situation--Lee Smith, if you're reading this... STOP DOING THAT!!!

 

Allen was 9/17 for 165 for a 9.7 YPA on those 2 drives in those less than 5 minutes

 

For the other 23+ minutes of the game pretty clearly called by Daboll, he was 13/24 for 101 yards for a 4.2 YPA.

 

The OP is right. Let Josh be Josh. Maybe he should just be handed the ability to call his own plays all game on Sundays.

 

Disagree that he's given that freedom in any real sense.

 

Maybe he's told he has it, but I definitely agree with the premise of this thread that Daboll and McDermott are trying to rein him in.

 

Just look at the wild disparity in 2 drives to end each half vs the rest of the game.

We are once again bottom of the league in passing and points scored.  But yet you again will not blame the QB.  The bar you set for QB’s would be equivalent to a limbo bar.

[Bangarang]

3 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

He's good any time he's given the keys. He was good to end the 1st half, too.

Allen plays good and it’s because he has the keys and has taken control.

 

Allen doesn’t play good and it’s because he’s being held back by the players, coaches or scheme.

 

It can’t just be that he’s a frustratingly inconsistent. No sir, not the guy you proclaimed would be an MVP candidate. Can’t be.

[DuckyBoys]

I dont know if Josh is the guy but I do know Dabol is not.  Week in week out this offense has no flow for chunks of games  They have throw away drives  and inexplicable play tendencies  Wasted time outs , pre snap penalties.  Toss sweep to Frank Gore?  Dimarco running routes deep  Dabol doesnt have a clue how to use his personel  Dolphins are almost dead last against the run  He'll throw 45 times to outsmart them

[transplantbillsfan]

1 minute ago, Bangarang said:

Well of course you disagree with anything that may suggest Allen isn’t the MVP candidate type of player you want him to be. 

 

Now you're being obstinate.

 

Obviously I was wrong there. Allen is not an mvp candidate and I've already said whenever @Foxx and @GunnerBill are ready to accept my concession he's also clearly not making the pro bowl as a 1st pick. Allen isn't Mahomes. He isn't Watson. Can he ever get there? Don't know, but the problem is Watson was pretty much already there straight outta college and Mahomes had Reid, the bench, and Alex Smith to learn under.

 

Completely admit my entire premise of Allen taking a huge step was because he'd be in the same offensive system and I thought Daboll might be the next genius in waitin.

 

Whiffed there.

 

Now I just hope Daboll doesn't ruin him.

[Big Blitz]

3 hours ago, london_bills said:

Last drive was awful. 

 

 

I'd be in this place to about them making decisions out of fear.....but that would mean DS is getting 20 carries a game, and we aren't throwing 40x against that team today.  

 

The O overall has the look of being run by a guy that just isn't sure what he wants it to be or he just doesn't know how to use what he has.  

 

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, Bangarang said:

Well of course you disagree with anything that may suggest Allen isn’t the MVP candidate type of player you want him to be. 

What I find hilarious is he was the same way with Manuel and Taylor.   Defended them the same way.

 

Im not done with Allen...but it’s perfectly okay  to say he’s not good this year so far.  He simply doesn’t produce enough and the score board and passing statistics proves that.  

[transplantbillsfan]

6 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

We are once again bottom of the league in passing and points scored.  But yet you again will not blame the QB.  The bar you set for QB’s would be equivalent to a limbo bar.

 

He has blame.

 

Daboll and the coaching staff have more.

[Bangarang]

2 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

What I find hilarious is he was the same way with Manuel and Taylor.   Defended them the same way.

 

Im not done with Allen...but it’s perfectly okay  to say he’s not good this year so far.  He simply doesn’t produce enough and the score board and passing statistics proves that.  

It’s easy to be an optimist when you live in paradise. In a way, I’m jealous 

Edited November 11, 2019 by Bangarang

[london_bills]

2 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

I'd be in this place to about them making decisions out of fear.....but that would mean DS is getting 20 carries a game, and we aren't throwing 40x against that team today.  

 

The O overall has the look of being run by a guy that just isn't sure what he wants it to be or he just doesn't know how to use what he has.  

 

Daboll? 

[Royale with Cheese]

Just now, transplantbillsfan said:

 

He has blame.

 

Daboll and the coaching staff have more.

Very little blame you’re putting on him.

Every time he does something good....it’s because he was good.  When he plays bad, others are more to blame.  It’s a cycle with you with every QB.

[Big Blitz]

1 minute ago, london_bills said:

Daboll? 

 

 

Yes.

[london_bills]

Mcdermott was scared at the end. 

[transplantbillsfan]

4 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

Allen plays good and it’s because he has the keys and has taken control.

 

Allen doesn’t play good and it’s because he’s being held back by the players, coaches or scheme.

 

It can’t just be that he’s a frustratingly inconsistent. No sir, not the guy you proclaimed would be an MVP candidate. Can’t be.

 

Okay bro. 

 

Have your fun.

[london_bills]

3 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

Yes.

Well it was a different plan then last week against the browns 30th run D. Its a difficult one when you see beasley was open on the last play of the game. Obviously Allen decided to give brown a shot like against the jets. 

[SirAndrew]

31 minutes ago, DuckyBoys said:

I dont know if Josh is the guy but I do know Dabol is not.  Week in week out this offense has no flow for chunks of games  They have throw away drives  and inexplicable play tendencies  Wasted time outs , pre snap penalties.  Toss sweep to Frank Gore?  Dimarco running routes deep  Dabol doesnt have a clue how to use his personel  Dolphins are almost dead last against the run  He'll throw 45 times to outsmart them

This is where I’m at. I’ve been an Allen supporter, last season he looked like he possessed something special that other failed Bills QB’s didn’t have. He was a raw prospect who had the ability to become elite in the future. Allen has not progressed as much as I’d like this season. For some reason no matter what happens this season, I’m not ready to move on from him quickly like I was with Edwards, Losman, etc. I simply want to see him with a new OC before I give up. Daboll is a failed NFL OC who should have never been recycled. 

[Reed83HOF]

33 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Im not done with Allen...but it’s perfectly okay  to say he’s not good this year so far.  He simply doesn’t produce enough and the score board and passing statistics proves that.  

 

He certainly has plateaued the last few weeks...

[transplantbillsfan]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Very little blame you’re putting on him.

Every time he does something good....it’s because he was good.  When he plays bad, others are more to blame.  It’s a cycle with you with every QB.

 

He's a young raw QB who has tons of legitimate raw talent and who has actually flashed that talent in his young NFL career.

 

He's not EJ or Taylor who you guys are bangin me on here for. EJ and Tyrod had a lot of good coaching in their college (EJ) and NFL (Tyrod) careers.

 

Neither had Allen's talent.

 

Look, the story has been told time and time again with Allen. If you don't know it, look it up.

 

So yes, I put more on Daboll and McDermott because I think they're coaching Allen to play scared for the sake of winning now.

 

And I know you can't have it both ways, but there's a certain uber conservative line that I believe they've crossed where they're hurting both the development of our young QB as well as the team.

 

Let me ask you something relating to our (I believe) poor offensive play caller:

 

We're you content that Singletary only got 8 touches today?

Edited November 11, 2019 by transplantbillsfan

[ganesh]

On 10/28/2019 at 9:57 PM, oldmanfan said:

I would love to be a fly on the wall in the offense meeting room.  I really wonder what goes on between the coaches and Josh Allen.  I'd love to know if, for example, they are asking him what plays he likes in the game plan, what plays he wants thrown out.  I'd love to know how much freedom he has in terms of checking to audibles. 

 

I say let Josh be Josh.  Give him the keys to the car and let him drive.   Give him freedom to change plays at the line of scrimmage and so on.  If you look at his fourth quarter heroics (before yesterday, which just stunk across the board), Josh has done well.  When you do well in the fourth quarter it tells me the QB can make good decisions and good plays, make good reads and throws.  Some have commented that he looks tentative the last couple games, and I agree.  Let him play football.

He did score the TD and help take the lead in the 4th quarter.

7 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Let me ask you something relating to our (I believe) poor offensive play caller:

 

We're you content that Singletary only got 8 touches today?

This loss is on the play calling.  They could have run Singletary on the final 3rd down...We only needed 4 yards and the middle was open and there was still about minute left on the clock. 

 

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Very little blame you’re putting on him.

Every time he does something good....it’s because he was good.  When he plays bad, others are more to blame.  It’s a cycle with you with every QB.

Besides the long passes, how did he play bad.  I think he made some clutch throws.

[Seven-N-Nine]

Lamar Jackson is better than Allen right now, his coach is letting him be Lamar. However, McDermott is not John Harbaugh, not even close, so I don't think "let Josh be Josh" will ever be a thing under McDermott. 

Edited November 11, 2019 by Seven-N-Nine

[Nextmanup]

On 10/28/2019 at 12:28 PM, GunnerBill said:

Agreed. Let him throw. 

They are scared to death to let him throw.  That was never more evident than on our last possession against Cleveland.

 

HOWEVER, I agree with you. Let Josh be Josh.  The sooner we realize Josh isn't good enough, the sooner we will move forward and have a chance to improve.