Josh Gordon is about to be available

[dave mcbride]

Just now, r00tabaga said:

But are those 12 guys going to be picked up by other clubs. Short answer is no.

? - i don't understand your post. Which 12 individuals are you referring to? 

[Kelly the Dog]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

That's the thing. Gordon is going to have options. I can't imagine the Bills will be high on his list -- i mean, i have to think he's had his fill of Lake Erie-adjacent snowbelt cities. 

I imagine he wants a team that is winning with a QB that can almost throw it out of the stadium who needs a guy just like him. It's a rather good fit.

[dave mcbride]

2 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

I imagine he wants a team that is winning with a QB that can almost throw it out of the stadium who needs a guy just like him. It's a rather good fit.

I disagree, but we shall see. I also suspect that Beane/McDermott want nothing to do with a player who has had so many personal problems and who failed his team last season during the stretch run. 

But there's another thing you have to ask yourself: why did a very smart organization with such issues on their pass offense dump him? Who was the last NE player who was effectively cut mid-season who exceeded  expectations elsewhere?

Edited October 24, 2019 by dave mcbride

[MAJBobby]

3 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

How about multiple year-long suspensions and a long excused absence during a stretch run? 

 

You've gotta do better than that.

Ok how about a Prison Sentence does that fit the culture.

 

I think Battling and overcoming addictions is the EXACT DNA McD talks about, the Fight in him to keep trying to pursue his dream of football

2 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Are you ready to put that on your tombstone? Because it's sheer madness for them to not trade him. They're going to be getting a pick at around the 97 slot and nothing else for him, and that team is going to lose a minimum of 12 games this year. 

Yep I would, go look at their Owners and tell m again that they will do th smart thing

[dave mcbride]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

Ok how about a Prison Sentence does that fit the culture.

 

I think Battling and overcoming addictions is the EXACT DNA McD talks about, the Fight in him to keep trying to pursue his dream of football

I think you're just wrong, and anyway, has he overcome them? What happened late last season? Why is a such WR-deficient team effectively cutting him now? 

[MAJBobby]

4 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

That's the thing. Gordon is going to have options. I can't imagine the Bills will be high on his list -- i mean, i have to think he's had his fill of Lake Erie-adjacent snowbelt cities. 

Thing is HE DOESNT get a Say.  He will be claimed on Waivers and will show up and play and if that is the Bills that are doing it, h definitely will come play hard to stick it to the Patriots.

Just now, dave mcbride said:

I think you're just wrong, and anyway, has he overcome them? What happened late last season? Why is a such WR-deficient team effectively cutting him now? 

Their Rookie is coming back from IR and just way overpaid for Sanu.  He hasnt failed a test has he

Edited October 24, 2019 by MAJBobby

[Kelly the Dog]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

I disagree, but we shall see. I also suspect that Beane/McDermott want nothing to do with a player who has had so many personal problems and who failed his team last season during the stretch run. 

Fair enough. Lately we have been seeing a bunch of reports about teams that put in claims for guys that weren't awarded them, something we often didnt get before. Will be interesting to see, say, if he is awarded on waivers but the Bills did put in a claim. Gordon is a unique case though, and as I surmised earlier he may be able to pick his team more than other guys because of his past. As you say, we shall see. Cheers.

[dave mcbride]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

Thing is HE DOESNT get a Say.  He will be claimed on Waivers and will show up and play and if that is the Bills that are doing it, h definitely will come play hard to stick it to the Patriots.

That is true, but if he clears waivers - which is the most likely outcome because teams do NOT want to be on the hook for his full contract if he flakes out - then my scenario is operative. 

[MAJBobby]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

That is true, but if he clears waivers - which is the most likely outcome because teams do NOT want to be on the hook for his full contract if he flakes out - then my scenario is operative. 

What is his Full Contract? 1.5M OUCH so bad He is going to get claimed and I hope it is from the Bills So you wouldnt pay 1.5M for a WR2 next to Brown?

Edited October 24, 2019 by MAJBobby

[dave mcbride]

2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Thing is HE DOESNT get a Say.  He will be claimed on Waivers and will show up and play and if that is the Bills that are doing it, h definitely will come play hard to stick it to the Patriots.

Their Rookie is coming back from IR and just way overpaid for Sanu.  He hasnt failed a test has he

They traded a second rounder AFTER they determined they didn't want him! That's why they made the trade in the first place! Also, Brady has been complaining that the WRs don't know the routes. You think Harry, who was on the shelf for a while, is ready to know the full offense for the stretch run? 

[MAJBobby]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

They traded a second rounder AFTER they determined they didn't want him! That's why they made the trade in the first place! Also, Brady has been complaining that the WRs don't know the routes. You think Harry, who was on the shelf for a while, is ready to know the full offense for the stretch run? 

Umm He was hurt, trade deadline about to close, Needed to make a Move.

Just now, dave mcbride said:

They traded a second rounder AFTER they determined they didn't want him! That's why they made the trade in the first place! Also, Brady has been complaining that the WRs don't know the routes. You think Harry, who was on the shelf for a while, is ready to know the full offense for the stretch run? 

You dont say Brady COmplaining to hide his age issues, wow shocking.  How about More likely Brady's Arm cannot throw the Routes Gordon specializes in anymore?

Edited October 24, 2019 by MAJBobby

[dave mcbride]

2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Umm He was hurt, trade deadline about to close, Needed to make a Move.

You dont say Brady COmplaining to hide his age issues, wow shocking.  How about More likely Brady's Arm cannot throw the Routes Gordon socializes in anymore?

I'll trust the GOAT's opinion on this. His arm looks fine anyway. 

Edited October 24, 2019 by dave mcbride

[MAJBobby]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

I'll trust the GOAT's opinion on this. His arm looks fine anyway. 

Than I don't know what you are watching, he doesn't push the ball down the field, scattershot accuracy over 10 yards

[Kelly the Dog]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

I'll trust the GOAT's opinion on this. His arm looks fine anyway. 

He did say to the ref, "There was a guy right there!" when there clearly was not on Sunday night, as well as he knew nothing about deflated balls or a guy they called "The Deflater," so I don't think you can trust what the bastard says.

[dave mcbride]

3 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Than I don't know what you are watching, he doesn't push the ball down the field, scattershot accuracy over 10 yards

That's just not true. His arm is the same as it was in 2017, when he was 40 and arguably the best QB in the league. I watch a lot of Pats' games. Their issue right now is not him; it's the lack of NFL-level TE (until this past Monday) and injuries/retirements in their core blocking group (o-line/TE/FB) that have made them into a 3.3 ypc team in the run game (they were 4.3 last season). Brady is averaging 7.3 ypa and a 66 percent completion rate.

Edited October 24, 2019 by dave mcbride

[Kelly the Dog]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

That's just not true. His arm is the same as it was in 2017, when he was 40 and arguably the best QB in the league. I watch a lot of Pats' games. Their issue right now is not him; it's the lack of NFL-level TE (until this past Monday) and injuries/retirements in their core blocking group (o-line/TE/FB) that have made them into a 3.3 ypc team in the run game. Brady is averaging 7.3 ypa and a 66 percent completion rate.

To me he still throws a large portion of perfect passes in every game, but his portion of just bad passes is way up. Part of them can be explained away as his options. But he throws a lot to Edelman, too.

[dave mcbride]

Just now, Kelly the Dog said:

To me he still throws a large portion of perfect passes in every game, but his portion of just bad passes is way up. Part of them can be explained away as his options. But he throws a lot to Edelman, too.

I think he throws a ton of them away. I honestly think he's playing cautiously because the defense is so dominant. When he needs to make plays, he does (particularly early in games). 

[MAJBobby]

Wrong his Air yards per completion is 5.8 and Intended air yards 7.3

 

2017 6.6 and 9

 

So right now throwing more Horizontal than he ever has since they tracked these stats.  Translation Arm is dead

 

 

[Kelly the Dog]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

I think he throws a ton of them away. I honestly think he's playing cautiously because the defense is so dominant. When he needs to make plays, he does (particularly early in games). 

He's not the type. He was throwing 20 yard passes up by 30 points with six minutes to go on his own 15 yard line.

[dave mcbride]

5 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Wrong his Air yards per completion is 5.8 and Intended air yards 7.3

 

2017 6.6 and 9

 

So right now throwing more Horizontal than he ever has since they tracked these stats.  Translation Arm is dead

 

 

Yeah, when he wins yet another SB MVP on a 15-1 team we'll still be talking about his decline. Watch the games and the players around him. He hasn't changed; the other players have. FWIW, he threw a ball at 61 mph this offseason, which is elite: https://www.masslive.com/patriots/2019/06/tom-bradys-arm-appears-to-be-in-peak-form-patriots-qb-posts-photo-of-radar-gun-at-61-mph.html. 

2 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

He's not the type. He was throwing 20 yard passes up by 30 points with six minutes to go on his own 15 yard line.

I'm not saying that he's not trying to score; I'm saying that he's not forcing things in close-call plays because he doesn't have too. 

Edited October 24, 2019 by dave mcbride

[Kelly the Dog]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

 

I'm not saying that he's not trying to score; I'm saying that he's not forcing things in close-call plays because he doesn't have too. 

But that is what he was doing late.He threw a dangerous pass. I couldn't believe it.

[MAJBobby]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

Yeah, when he wins yet another SB MVP on a 15-1 team we'll still be complaining again about his decline. Watch the games and the players around him. He hasn't changed. FWIW, he threw a ball at 61 mph this offseason, which is elite: https://www.masslive.com/patriots/2019/06/tom-bradys-arm-appears-to-be-in-peak-form-patriots-qb-posts-photo-of-radar-gun-at-61-mph.html. 

I'm not saying that he's not trying to score; I'm saying that he's not forcing things in close-call plays because he doesn't have too. 

 

OOO No not a one time throw in the offseason.  I watch the games, I have watched Brady Not be able to get the ball down field to Gordon.  I have watched Gordon running open.  I know Gordon would be an Instant WR2 and the 2nd biggest threat the minute he walks into OBD.  So yep make the waiver claim

[r00tabaga]

25 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

? - i don't understand your post. Which 12 individuals are you referring to? 

Oops. Confused your post with another's. 

[Charlottebillsfan2]

If another team in the NFL put him on IR and the Pats signed him everyone would be going crazy. Maybe we should act like the Pats and bring in a guy like this.

 

Give him a one year deal for this season. We're not giving up any draft capital and he can bolster our WR corp. Let the pats play cover 0 with him and Brown on the outside. 

 

 

[dave mcbride]

2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

OOO No not a one time throw in the offseason.  I watch the games, I have watched Brady Not be able to get the ball down field to Gordon.  I have watched Gordon running open.  I know Gordon would be an Instant WR2 and the 2nd biggest threat the minute he walks into OBD.  So yep make the waiver claim

To be clear, I am not opposed to taking a flyer on Gordon. I just don't think that the Bills' organization is likely to do so. 

[MAJBobby]

 

[Punching Bag]

18 hours ago, Pabstblueribbon said:

 

The Honorable thing for an organization to do would be to cut him before the deadline and allow him to choose where he wants to play.

 

Since we're dealing with NE however I expect he'll end up with the Dolphins or Skins and spiral out of the game from there. 

 

Honorable?  Right now he has value as potential draft pick or player. 

 

Teams, whether cheaters or not, need to try to get value from all players they have even if they are cutting them.

 

Lots of players have milked injuries (plantars fakeitis), delayed returning to get as much money as they can, held out after willingly signed new contracts or retired and then tried to become free agents to sign for another team after they said 'I no longer have football in me'.

[MAJBobby]

2 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

Honorable?  Right now he has value as potential draft pick or player. 

 

Teams, whether cheaters or not, need to try to get value from all players they have even if they are cutting them.

 

Lots of players have milked injuries (plantars fakeitis), delayed returning to get as much money as they can, held out after willingly signed new contracts or retired and then tried to become free agents to sign for another team after they said 'I no longer have football in me'.

Cant trade a player on IR

[Kirby Jackson]

4 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

Okay...maybe I missed a good year he had, but every time I've seen him the last couple of years, he seems to flunk the eye test.

Fair enough and he may have lost a step. With that being said how many times have we said, “if ______ was in ______’s system he’d be a star.” The reality is that Josh Gordon has been a dominant player while playing in an all-time bad situation. It’s reasonable to believe that he could be at least a good player in a good situation. He’s actually proven that he can dominate (not saying that he will again). 

[YoloinOhio]

Not sure if already discussed but apparently he’s subject to waivers if released after Tuesday. If it’s before Tuesday he’s a FA. It’s anticipated they will wait because then he would likely be claimed by a bad team at the top of the waiver order  rather than be able to sign with anyone who they are going to play or in competition with perhaps from a playoff perspective  (ie Chiefs, Bills, Texans, Colts)

[babulator]

Pretty good article from Yoohoo explaining the pros of putting him on IR. Basicly instead of allowing him to be a free agent they can make him clear waivers and get draft compensation.

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/looking-answers-why-patriots-didnt-152403021.html

 

"While we're all still scratching our heads as to why the Patriots would part ways with a capable player who plays a position they've desperately been trying to fill for the last couple of seasons, let's get into some of the bookkeeping associated with the move. 

Placing Josh Gordon on injured reserve . . . 

1) . . . DOESN'T END HIS SEASON

It ends his season with the Patriots, in all likelihood. They've already used one of their return-from-IR designations on receiver N'Keal Harry and the other seems ticketed for left tackle Isaiah Wynn. Gordon would technically be eligible to return after eight weeks if he was coming back from a serious injury.

But based on his reaction to the move Wednesday night, and based on the fact that he was out at Wednesday afternoon's walkthrough, his injury isn't so serious that it would require an eight-week absence. Players on IR with minor injuries must be released when healthy. So while he won't be back with the Patriots, odds are he'll be playing somewhere for someone else in due time. 

• CURRAN: With offensive personnel, Pats are just winging it

2) . . . FREES UP A ROSTER SPOT FOR MOHAMED SANU

Mohamed Sanu is a different player than Gordon, as we pointed out in our initial reaction to the Gordon IR move Wednesday night. So in terms of the on-the-field impact, this isn't a one-for-one swap. But as far as the roster goes, it can be thought of in those terms.

The Patriots needed a freed-up slot on their 53-man roster after trading a second-round pick to the Falcons for Sanu. Initially it looked like the Patriots would be clearing a spot for Sanu by releasing Eric Tomlinson. The team announced that it was releasing Tomlinson midday Wednesday. But that swap never became official. Instead it was Gordon who was plucked from the roster and placed on IR to make room for Sanu. Tomlinson remains on the team. 

3) . . . MAY PREVENT GORDON FROM LANDING WITH A CONTENDER

Even if Gordon spends just one week on IR, that benefits the Patriots. How? Consider his move to IR a delayed release. Had the Patriots simply released him on Wednesday to clear a spot for Sanu, Gordon would've become a free agent and eligible to sign with any team. The Patriots probably wouldn't want that to happen and then see him land with a playoff contender.

By placing him on IR, they can keep him from the free-agent market. If he's released off of IR after the Oct. 29 trade deadline, he (like all players, even veterans, who are released after the deadline) would have to go through the waiver process. That means Gordon would not be free to sign with a team of his choosing. The waiver priority list is based on club records, meaning teams at the bottom of the standings and out of contention would first have a crack at Gordon.

• What's next for Josh Gordon?

4) . . . COULD LAND A REBUILDING TEAM A DRAFT PICK

Why, you might be asking yourself, would a team like the Dolphins or the Bengals care about plucking Gordon off of waivers? The answer is simple enough: draft capital. Because Gordon is eligible to hit free agency this offseason, he's eligible to qualify for the league's compensatory pick formula.

If the Dolphins claim him on waivers and keep him for the season, they could let him walk this offseason, watch him sign elsewhere, and they may end up with a 2021 pick as a result. Even if it's a Day 3 selection, a half-season of Gordon (and his salary) would be worth it for a team at the bottom of the league and looking to rebuild through the draft. 

5) . . . MAY END UP GIVING THE PATRIOTS SOME CAP RELIEF

Notice in the previous graph I pointed out that any team that claims him on waivers would also be claiming his contract. Gordon was a restricted free agent last offseason and signed his one-year tender with the Patriots for $2.025 million. Had he been released on Wednesday to create room for Sanu, the Patriots likely would've been on the hook to pay the rest of that salary for 2019, according to OverTheCap.com's Jason Fitzgerald.

If, by releasing him off of IR following the trade deadline, Gordon gets claimed, then whichever team claims him will also claim the approximately $1 million on salary (and cap space) left on his contract for this season. That's nothing for a team like the Dolphins, for instance, who have about $28 million in cap space right now. But for the Patriots - who are tight up against the cap thanks in part to the money committed to Antonio Brown earlier this year - that money would serve as some slight relief.

 

They're looking for relief where they can get it, it seems. The Patriots restructured Shaq Mason's contract this week to free up just over $1 million, according to ESPN. They could also try to extend players like Kyle Van Noy, Dont'a Hightower and Devin McCourty for further relief. My understanding is that they haven't yet reached out to McCourty on an extension to this point. If Bill Belichick and Nick Caserio want to swing any more deals between now and the trade deadline, or if they want to sign any additional free agents as the season goes on, they'll need some cap breathing room.

• PERRY: Bennett says 'no love lost' after suspension

6) . . . REMAINS SOMEWHAT OF A HEAD-SCRATCHER

Keeping Gordon away from a contender while simultaneously freeing up some cap space and clearing the way for first-round pick N'Keal Harry to contribute makes some sense for the Patriots. But at a position where Belichick and Caserio have been desperately searching for talent for two years now, releasing a player like Gordon - who'd proven himself capable of being a key piece when available, who'd earned trust from Tom Brady - leaves questions unanswered.

One injury, particularly to Harry, who missed most of training camp injured, would suddenly give the Patriots a big-body-outside-the-numbers receiving need and ding the overall depth of the wideout group. The team was clearly OK with letting Tomlinson walk about 24 hours ago. Does keeping the tight end-slash-fullback hybrid on the roster clearly represent better value than what Gordon provided?

What happened between the team's announcement of Tomlinson's release and Gordon's placement on IR? For a player who has dealt with as much as Gordon has over the course of his life and has previously acknowledged his own issues with being dependable - typically a hallmark of what Belichick wants in his players - one has to wonder if the team simply determined this was a player it no longer wanted to, or couldn't, depend on.

 

[CSBill]

The more I've thought about this, the more I think they should go after him. And by that I mean, make a trade -- for one of those lower round picks. The Pats win by getting something rather than an outright release, the Bills win by getting a player with a high up-side for a relatively low risk and price. The risk reward is positive. GO FOR IT!

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2859634-if-josh-gordon-is-done-in-new-england-where-should-he-go-next?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=nfl

Edited October 26, 2019 by CSBill

[GreggTX]

He's not as good as some people seem to think. I think some are basing their assessment more on reputation than performance.

[cantankerous]

The Bills could absolutely use Gordon. He’d be an instant upgrade. 

[aristocrat]

54 minutes ago, GreggTX said:

He's not as good as some people seem to think. I think some are basing their assessment more on reputation than performance.

is he an upgrade over duke?  ask yourself that

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

LOOPHOLES 

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

I don't understand why the Patriots want to cut him. Did I miss something?

[Putin]

Why wouldn’t the patriots****** just trade him and get something for him ?

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Something strange is up. Again.  
 

Pats can’t have him no one can?

 

[Doc]

As some have alluded to, they're announcing this to drum up interest so that some team will make a trade for him.  Releasing him gets them zilch.