Hurdling on the field goal attempt.

[The Jokeman]

1 hour ago, MAJBobby said:

I personally like the Missed Facemask on Allen RIGHT IN FRONT of the One official with eyes locked on the QB. 
 

or the three missed intentional groundings from Brady in front of the SAME official 

Let's not forget Brady's intentional grounding in the 4th quarter. A lot of missed calls but again no shock.

[1ManRaid]

2 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

The key part to me is the last sentence of the paragraph. Seems pretty clear. Your mileage may vary, of course. 

You say the whole paragraph needs to be taken into account, then say you only care about the last part.  Of course it's "pretty clear" to you if you zoom in and focus on what you want and ignore what is actually relevant to the case.

[Doc]

Missed calls in favor of the Cheaters?  No way!

[Meatloaf63]

1 hour ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Calls are missed every game both ways. Overall it was a reasonably well called game. 

No it wasn’t you don’t have s clue what you are talking about. 

[The Wiz]

21 minutes ago, Say When... said:

Does anyone have the clip?  I can’t find it on youtube or google, I found where coach is pointing to the replay screen but not the actual clip.

 

i think he was moving forward but I could be wrong.

should start at the time of the kick.  He takes a step(maybe 2) and then leaps the line.  

 

EDIT: doesn't work because of NFL.  Go to the 6:45 mark.

Edited September 30, 2019 by The Wiz

[Orlando Tim]

1 hour ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Calls are missed every game both ways. Overall it was a reasonably well called game. 

I am not saying it was a one sided bad call game- the officials were overall horrendous- to argue otherwise means you do not know rules. I saw multiple facemasks not called both ways and that sad defensive holding that helped us. Overall they were putrid by any standard.

[Simon]

1 minute ago, 1ManRaid said:

You are saying you haven't heard of his widely covered Twitter complaint about the number of holding penalties, suspiciously immediately followed by his O-line of backups not getting holding penalties against the dominant Bills D-line?

I have not.

I turn on the TV when a game starts and turn it off when the game is over. I haven't watched NFL highlite shows since Berman and Jackson got cancelled, I barely hear the broadcast team during the game and I've never listened to sports radio. The only sports media I ever engage with is this message board and even then I only read what interests me.

Dude, I don't even own a cell phone; I'm like a freaking Luddite

[1ManRaid]

15 minutes ago, Meatloaf63 said:

No it wasn’t you don’t have s clue what you are talking about. 

Yeah when you can almost do a top 10 list of missed calls just benefiting the Pats, I wouldn't call that a well officiated game.  Especially when some of those calls are so egregious or game changing.

 

*edit*

Just 5 off the top of my head...

1. No ejection for the hit on Allen.

2. Brady's intentional groundings, suspiciously the game following Brady complaining to refs about being called for grounding.

3. INT standing upon review despite receiver being in contact with ball out of bounds.

4. Phantom holding call against the Bills just because the Pats' D-lineman throws his hands in the air when getting beat on a run (announcers even commented on how they are taught to do that to draw penalties).

5. Pats O-linemen of backups getting no holding penalties vs dominant Bills D-line the game following Brady complains on Twitter about the number of holding penalties.  Hell, the lack of holding calls on the Pats could be a list of its own.

 

Bonus #6, no roughing the passer from Allen getting slapped across the face.  Brady gets that call 10/10 times as shown by calls being made when his face isn't even hit.

Edited September 30, 2019 by 1ManRaid

[Orlando Tim]

8 minutes ago, Simon said:

I have not.

I turn on the TV when a game starts and turn it off when the game is over. I haven't watched NFL highlite shows since Berman and Jackson got cancelled, I barely hear the broadcast team during the game and I've never listened to sports radio. The only sports media I ever engage with is this message board and even then I only read what interests me.

Dude, I don't even own a cell phone; I'm like a freaking Luddite

In that case- 10 days ago Brady tweeted he would not watch and NFL game due to holding calls. Since then the number of calls across the league have dropped and his team got 0 this weekend against our great Dline with his bunch of backup linemen.

[HardyBoy]

31 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

Was he running and leaping in place? 

 

And for anyone that thinks Tom doesn't get that Facemask call. 

 

 

Right,  but you can see how the ref behind the play may genuinely see his head getting hit? Plus he's in the pocket. That would be a missed call, but 90% of the time a ref sees it from that angle and it looks like that, there is actual contact on the head, which is flat out illegal to tap a qb on the head.

 

Allen was scrambling and the defensive player never actually grabbed onto his facemask. Completely different and the right call imo. Would Brady have gotten that call? Maybe, don't really know, but this example isn't analogous really at all.

 

That said, I'm glad you posted it, it definitely furthers the convo, just not sure it proves what you are hoping it would.

[Say When...]

9 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

should start at the time of the kick.  He takes a step(maybe 2) and then leaps the line.  

 

EDIT: doesn't work because of NFL.  Go to the 6:45 mark.

 

I stand corrected,  as. I interpret the verbiage in the rule his initial leap was legal.  After the snap, within 1 yard.

 

but he does appear to use his left hand as a spring attempt on the back of a bills player and that’s certainly a foul, but is it clear enough?  

[Orlando Tim]

56 minutes ago, MarkAF43 said:

As someone else said, not a missed call. He was on the line and leaped over. Completely legal play based on the rule. 

The rule was written and meant to be enforced to stop guys from doing that- it is a safety rule because a linemen popping up destroys this guy. A defender can jump over the line of scrimmage- it is against the rule and was another blown call. 

[1ManRaid]

6 minutes ago, HardyBoy said:

 

Right,  but you can see how the ref behind the play may genuinely see his head getting hit? Plus he's in the pocket. That would be a missed call, but 90% of the time a ref sees it from that angle and it looks like that, there is actual contact on the head, which is flat out illegal to tap a qb on the head.

 

Allen was scrambling and the defensive player never actually grabbed onto his facemask. Completely different and the right call imo. Would Brady have gotten that call? Maybe, don't really know, but this example isn't analogous really at all.

 

That said, I'm glad you posted it, it definitely furthers the convo, just not sure it proves what you are hoping it would.

You seem to contradict yourself here.  The edge of a pinky finger grazing Brady's mask = good call for roughing the passer, but Allen getting clearly slapped across the face doesn't count because he didn't grab the facemask?  Facemask is a different penalty from roughing the passer.  You don't have to grab the mask to be called for roughing.  You say yourself that it is flatly illegal to make contact to the head of a QB but ignore OBVIOUS contact to Allen's head.

[Simon]

7 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

In that case- 10 days ago Brady tweeted he would not watch and NFL game due to holding calls. Since then the number of calls across the league have dropped and his team got 0 this weekend against our great Dline with his bunch of backup linemen.

 

OK, I get it now. Thanks for the clue-in.

And fwiw,  I certainly wasn't implying that officials don't have a lengthy history of protecting that little weasel.

Just that I wouldn't have thrown a flag for a guys hand sliding lightly across a QB's facemask when there was no blow to the head.

[The Wiz]

10 minutes ago, 1ManRaid said:

You seem to contradict yourself here.  The edge of a pinky finger grazing Brady's mask = good call for roughing the passer, but Allen getting clearly slapped across the face doesn't count because he didn't grab the facemask?  Facemask is a different penalty from roughing the passer.  You don't have to grab the mask to be called for roughing.  You say yourself that it is flatly illegal to make contact to the head of a QB but ignore OBVIOUS contact to Allen's head.

Also Allen was still in the pocket and not a runner at that point. Ref had a clear view of his hand on his face mask. 

[Utah John]

Once Brady had been called for one intentional grounding penalty, the quota was used up.  There was no way he'd ever get called twice in a single game.  He probably won't get called again this year.  This is Brady we're talking about.

 

 

[Kelly the Dog]

40 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

should start at the time of the kick.  He takes a step(maybe 2) and then leaps the line.  

 

EDIT: doesn't work because of NFL.  Go to the 6:45 mark.

I think he takes two steps forward and then jumps.

[Utah John]

I have to say, if a player can take a single step and leap over all the players on the line of scrimmage, getting both enough height and enough distance, while wearing all the weight of pads and helmet -- well shoot these people aren't actually human.

[Orlando Tim]

9 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

OK, I get it now. Thanks for the clue-in.

And fwiw,  I certainly wasn't implying that officials don't have a lengthy history of protecting that little weasel.

Just that I wouldn't have thrown a flag for a guys hand sliding lightly across a QB's facemask when there was no blow to the head.

I did not think you were defending just unaware of what happened. I also just thought officials were atrocious but that one play was not much compared to other mistakes.

[HardyBoy]

21 minutes ago, 1ManRaid said:

You seem to contradict yourself here.  The edge of a pinky finger grazing Brady's mask = good call for roughing the passer, but Allen getting clearly slapped across the face doesn't count because he didn't grab the facemask?  Facemask is a different penalty from roughing the passer.  You don't have to grab the mask to be called for roughing.  You say yourself that it is flatly illegal to make contact to the head of a QB but ignore OBVIOUS contact to Allen's head.

 

No, I said it was a bad call on Brady, but from the angle of the ref behind the play I can see how he would make that call, and he gets a pass...unless you put an official on every inch of the field, calls being missed because of line of sight issues are always going to be part of the game, just is the way it is, and it's not a conspiracy when it happens (assuming it is a genuine line of sight thing of course).

 

I also said Allen was scrambling, so he becomes a runner in terms of hit to the head (I'm pretty sure that's the case). Now had he thrown the ball and then the guy hit his head, it would be a penalty, but he wasn't a passer anymore at the time of that, and the guy didn't grab the face mask, good no call imo.

 

I was screaming at the tv when Zay was standing out of bounds touching the ball though, and was really annoyed Steratore didn't come on to give his input for almost a quarter after the play. 

[Orlando Tim]

2 minutes ago, Utah John said:

I have to say, if a player can take a single step and leap over all the players on the line of scrimmage, getting both enough height and enough distance, while wearing all the weight of pads and helmet -- well shoot these people aren't actually human.

I agree- it seems impossible- and one yard is 3 feet so that does not allow even one full step because your angle up will be angle down and you need some room for clearance.

[CLTbills]

1 hour ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Calls are missed every game both ways. Overall it was a reasonably well called game. 

1.) Yes calls are missed every game.

 

2.) Were you watching the same game the rest of us were? Was one of the worst-officiated games I’ve seen in a LONG time, and it goes both ways. 

[BuffaninATL]

1 hour ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Calls are missed every game both ways. Overall it was a reasonably well called game. 

depends what your definition of "reasonably" is

[NoSaint]

25 minutes ago, 1ManRaid said:

You seem to contradict yourself here.  The edge of a pinky finger grazing Brady's mask = good call for roughing the passer, but Allen getting clearly slapped across the face doesn't count because he didn't grab the facemask?  Facemask is a different penalty from roughing the passer.  You don't have to grab the mask to be called for roughing.  You say yourself that it is flatly illegal to make contact to the head of a QB but ignore OBVIOUS contact to Allen's head.

 

I’ve been counter general sentiment on a few calls but the hand to the face mask here was a clear and obvious miss from the official. 

[4merper4mer]

51 minutes ago, 1ManRaid said:

Yeah when you can almost do a top 10 list of missed calls just benefiting the Pats, I wouldn't call that a well officiated game.  Especially when some of those calls are so egregious or game changing.

 

*edit*

Just 5 off the top of my head...

1. No ejection for the hit on Allen.

2. Brady's intentional groundings, suspiciously the game following Brady complaining to refs about being called for grounding.

3. INT standing upon review despite receiver being in contact with ball out of bounds.

4. Phantom holding call against the Bills just because the Pats' D-lineman throws his hands in the air when getting beat on a run (announcers even commented on how they are taught to do that to draw penalties).

5. Pats O-linemen of backups getting no holding penalties vs dominant Bills D-line the game following Brady complains on Twitter about the number of holding penalties.  Hell, the lack of holding calls on the Pats could be a list of its own.

 

Bonus #6, no roughing the passer from Allen getting slapped across the face.  Brady gets that call 10/10 times as shown by calls being made when his face isn't even hit.

3 is just ridiculous; the replay guy doesn't even know his own rules.  The spotting of the ball at the 2 on Brown's 2nd and goal catch was absolutely absurd and simply had to be purposeful. It should have been inside the 1.

[Big Turk]

2 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

I personally like the Missed Facemask on Allen RIGHT IN FRONT of the One official with eyes locked on the QB. 
 

or the three missed intentional groundings from Brady in front of the SAME official 

How about the holding call on Dawkins to offset the personal foul on Allen which was 20 yards behind the play and consisted of Dawkins "trapping" the player on the ground and not letting him up...thats not holding.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

2 hours ago, HardyBoy said:

 

No, I said it was a bad call on Brady, but from the angle of the ref behind the play I can see how he would make that call, and he gets a pass...unless you put an official on every inch of the field, calls being missed because of line of sight issues are always going to be part of the game, just is the way it is, and it's not a conspiracy when it happens (assuming it is a genuine line of sight thing of course).

 

I also said Allen was scrambling, so he becomes a runner in terms of hit to the head (I'm pretty sure that's the case). Now had he thrown the ball and then the guy hit his head, it would be a penalty, but he wasn't a passer anymore at the time of that, and the guy didn't grab the face mask, good no call imo.

 

I was screaming at the tv when Zay was standing out of bounds touching the ball though, and was really annoyed Steratore didn't come on to give his input for almost a quarter after the play. 

He gets a pass for making a call on a penalty on something he clearly could not see because it never occurred?  In other words, he made it up? 

 

Geesh that’s the type of activity that would have me wondering if Vegas really was controlling the game. 

[1ManRaid]

3 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

3 is just ridiculous; the replay guy doesn't even know his own rules.  The spotting of the ball at the 2 on Brown's 2nd and goal catch was absolutely absurd and simply had to be purposeful. It should have been inside the 1.

Ah now I remember there was also a bad spot.

3 hours ago, matter2003 said:

How about the holding call on Dawkins to offset the personal foul on Allen which was 20 yards behind the play and consisted of Dawkins "trapping" the player on the ground and not letting him up...thats not holding.

Add them to the list.  Almost literally up to a top 10 list of specific (non) calls that aided the Pats in this game alone.  I haven't even counted the vaulting the line on the missed field goal as I haven't yet checked that replay to see if he was running forward when it happened or if he pushed off another player to do it.  If you count that and the "not really illegal just scummy" Brian Bilichick and Friend having to be kicked off the field by McD during pre-game, that's a full top 10 list.

[klos63]

6 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

I personally like the Missed Facemask on Allen RIGHT IN FRONT of the One official with eyes locked on the QB. 
 

or the three missed intentional groundings from Brady in front of the SAME official 

I thought the facemask wasn't really a big deal, but those were definitely groundings. Not out of the pocket, ball didn't reach the LOS. Terrible non calls.

[Ol Dirty B]

6 hours ago, Simon said:

I wouldn't have called that one either.

And Josh sure as hell shouldn't be trying to call it while the play is still live.

 

 

It was a clear face mask man. 

[1ManRaid]

4 hours ago, HardyBoy said:

 

I also said Allen was scrambling, so he becomes a runner in terms of hit to the head (I'm pretty sure that's the case). Now had he thrown the ball and then the guy hit his head, it would be a penalty, but he wasn't a passer anymore at the time of that, and the guy didn't grab the face mask, good no call 

He wasn't out of the pocket or past the line scrimmage, still a passer.  Even if he leaves the pocket...

 

"When the passer goes outside the pocket area and either continues moving with the ball (without attempting to advance the ball as a runner) or throws while on the run, he loses the protection of the one-step rule provided for in (a) above, and the protection against a low hit provided for in (e) above, but he remains covered by all the other special protections afforded to a passer in the pocket (b, c, d, and f), as well as the regular unnecessary roughness rules applicable to all player positions."

 

...other special protections i.e. hits to the head.  Scrambling to avoid pressure doesn't make him a "runner" unless it is clear he is trying specifically to ADVANCE the ball as a runner.

8 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

It was a clear face mask man. 

No, it was a clear roughing the passer.  Facemask includes actual grabbing of the mask, not just making contact with it.  Kind of like illegal hands to the face re: linemen.

[Ol Dirty B]

3 minutes ago, 1ManRaid said:

 

No, it was a clear roughing the passer.  Facemask includes actual grabbing of the mask, not just making contact with it.  Kind of like illegal hands to the face re: linemen.

 

I haven't seen a replay since Sunday. I could be misremembering, but I thought he grabbed it, but didn't really pull one way or the other.

 

Either way we're both pretty much agreeing. Thanks for the clarification I guess 

[1ManRaid]

2 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

I haven't seen a replay since Sunday. I could be misremembering, but I thought he grabbed it, but didn't really pull one way or the other.

 

Either way we're both pretty much agreeing. Thanks for the clarification I guess 

From what I saw it kind of looked like a skidding slap across the face, the flat of his fingers dragging across it without gripping.  But yeah, 15 yard penalty either way.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

6 hours ago, BuffaninATL said:

depends what your definition of "reasonably" is

A few missed calls. Letting guys play and not calling too many tick tack calls. The Bills had what 4 or 5 presnap penalties and then held when they had a free play. Did the refs waste the timeouts? Maybe the Patriots are just a better coached team.  The Bills got some good calls. The roughing penalty on the DE for hitting Barkley after he threw the pass to Brown was a good call. They could have interpreted Barkley as starting to block and let the DE get away with a hit. 

I will admit I never saw the replay of Morse being downfield nor the hold on the Allen hit. 

I will say this, CBS was not showing many replays of the penalties. I suspect that the NFL just doesn’t want that much TV time spent on showing penalties.  

[MarkAF43]

11 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

The rule was written and meant to be enforced to stop guys from doing that- it is a safety rule because a linemen popping up destroys this guy. A defender can jump over the line of scrimmage- it is against the rule and was another blown call. 

 

It isn't. you need to look at the rule.  If he is on the line of scrimmage he can leap over, he cannot take a running start to do it.

 

It's a completely legitimate and legal play.

 

[Orlando Tim]

1 hour ago, MarkAF43 said:

 

It isn't. you need to look at the rule.  If he is on the line of scrimmage he can leap over, he cannot take a running start to do it.

 

It's a completely legitimate and legal play.

Based on purpose of rule and the fact he needs momentum forward to leap like that, not to mention he touched another player while jumping, means it should have been called. I do understand what you are saying but the purpose of rule was to stop that kind of play.

[GG]

Watching the All22 replay doesn't show anything illegal.

 

But should be another knock on Farwell's lack of preparation, which is inexcusable against Pats*. 

 

Jamie Collins has made a career out of leaping over the line (I think the rule was changed for him).  To not tell your OL to know exactly where Collins is lining up and not instruct them to immediately get your hands up to initiate contact on a leap, is grossly incompetent.   Dawkins did the exact opposite of how you're supposed to block when Jamie Collins is over your head.   This play makes it 10 points "given" up by the ST.

[PetermansRedemption]

16 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Calls are missed every game both ways. Overall it was a reasonably well called game. 

I thought this was was an exceptionally poor game for the officials. Felt sloppy throughout with plenty of missed calls that effected the outcome of the game. 

[HardyBoy]

20 hours ago, 1ManRaid said:

He wasn't out of the pocket or past the line scrimmage, still a passer.  Even if he leaves the pocket...

 

"When the passer goes outside the pocket area and either continues moving with the ball (without attempting to advance the ball as a runner) or throws while on the run, he loses the protection of the one-step rule provided for in (a) above, and the protection against a low hit provided for in (e) above, but he remains covered by all the other special protections afforded to a passer in the pocket (b, c, d, and f), as well as the regular unnecessary roughness rules applicable to all player positions."

 

...other special protections i.e. hits to the head.  Scrambling to avoid pressure doesn't make him a "runner" unless it is clear he is trying specifically to ADVANCE the ball as a runner.

No, it was a clear roughing the passer.  Facemask includes actual grabbing of the mask, not just making contact with it.  Kind of like illegal hands to the face re: linemen.

 

Thank you! Yeah if that's the rule I'm wrong. Definitely was hit in the head right in front of the ref, who very clearly saw it, and he was for sure a passer still.