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13 fumbles. Disgusting


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2 hours ago, pop gun said:

Allen is so far beyond what Taylor is it's a shame you can't see it.

Allen - 18 Ints and 13 fumbles in 16 games 

Taylor - 20 ints and 20 fumbles in 66 games

 

Allen highest QBR is 114.9 (over 100 3 times); Above 90 only 3 times.

Taylor highest QBR is 146.5 and over 114.9 seven times (over 100 19 times); Above 90 33 times.

 

Allen Record - 8-8

Taylor Record - 37-28-1

 

We may think Allen has more upside. But reality is he has not outperformed Taylor yet. Josh has a long way to go if he wants to succeed in this league. If what he has shown this year is who he is I dont think he gets more than this season and next. 

 

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12 minutes ago, ngbills said:

Allen - 18 Ints and 13 fumbles in 16 games 

Taylor - 20 ints and 20 fumbles in 66 games

 

Allen highest QBR is 114.9 (over 100 3 times); Above 90 only 3 times.

Taylor highest QBR is 146.5 and over 114.9 seven times (over 100 19 times); Above 90 33 times.

 

Allen Record - 8-8

Taylor Record - 37-28-1

 

We may think Allen has more upside. But reality is he has not outperformed Taylor yet. Josh has a long way to go if he wants to succeed in this league. If what he has shown this year is who he is I dont think he gets more than this season and next. 

 

For crissakes, Tyrod Taylor was entering his fifth year in the league when we acquired him. Allen is a baby by comparison, especially given his background as a QB coming up through high school and college, where TT was also light years ahead on the development scale. 

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3 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Fumble recoveries rates are entirely a function of luck, but you do realize that he should have been called for a fumble vs the Giants that was picked up and returned for a TD in the first half, correct?

 

I also know he threw a pick that wasn't a pick that gave the Pats* 3 points they never should have had.

 

"Shoulda" shouldn't be a measuring stick for a team's performance. Just an observation.

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Just now, IDBillzFan said:

 

I also know he threw a pick that wasn't a pick that gave the Pats* 3 points they never should have had.

 

"Shoulda" shouldn't be a measuring stick for a team's performance. Just an observation.

I like Allen. But he simply has to be a lot more careful with the ball. That pick was a very bad throw into triple coverage, and it was an easy pick regardless of the weird rule that presumably should have nullified it. That non-fumble that should have been one is because he doesn't take care of it as much as he should on sack plays.  

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2 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I like Allen. But he simply has to be a lot more careful with the ball. That pick was a very bad throw into triple coverage, and it was an easy pick regardless of the weird rule that presumably should have nullified it. That non-fumble that should have been one is because he doesn't take care of it as much as he should on sack plays.  

 

I agree he needs to be more careful with the ball. I hate the way he holds it when he's running. 

 

But then I watch him roll to his right and throw a 20-yard dart with people in his face, and I become more forgiving. But I'm a homer, so I'm good with it. :D

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Guest K-GunJimKelly12
3 hours ago, cd1 said:

 

He may already be afraid and that is why he is morphing into Tyrod (Throw the F-ing Ball) Taylor...

Unfortunately this is true.

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33 minutes ago, K-9 said:

For crissakes, Tyrod Taylor was entering his fifth year in the league when we acquired him. Allen is a baby by comparison, especially given his background as a QB coming up through high school and college, where TT was also light years ahead on the development scale. 

Who cares - I was responding to someone trying to say that Tyrod played worse than Allen. I take Allen long term over Tyrod no question. But lets keep it real, Allen has looked very shaky at times and was downright awful yesterday. Allen has much higher upside but is not a better QB consistently  than Tyrod yet. Take away the turnovers, given the Bills field position yesterday I bet they get at least 2-3 more field goals yesterday and win that game with a "Tyrod" at QB.

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Guest K-GunJimKelly12
6 minutes ago, RobbRiddick said:

Hey! You're that guy who hates Josh Allen! You should let people know

I don't hate Josh Allen, he is one of my favorites.  But many of his turnovers can be easily prevented.  Time for the kids gloves to come off.  If he doesn't stop playing hero ball, he is going to have to sit.

Allen isn't worse than Tyrod but just like Tyrod, he is not releasing the ball when he has time in the pocket.  He is waiting for guys to be wide open.  It is a bad sign.

Edited by K-GunJimKelly12
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52 minutes ago, K-9 said:

For crissakes, Tyrod Taylor was entering his fifth year in the league when we acquired him. Allen is a baby by comparison, especially given his background as a QB coming up through high school and college, where TT was also light years ahead on the development scale. 


yeah but Tyrod hadn’t started 16 games yet so he was still a rookie. That’s how it works right?

Edited by Bangarang
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3 hours ago, Blokestradamus said:

 

That's not how this works, Bobby. You can't be a team that preaches process and then argue that bad process is good just because you're lucky.


QBs fumble. Those are facts. No matter how much process you preach. 

3 hours ago, cle23 said:

 

Brady has been playing 20 years. 20! Allen has 25% the fumbles in like 8% of the games played.

Notice you ignored Mahomes and Watson interesting 

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1 hour ago, ngbills said:

Who cares - I was responding to someone trying to say that Tyrod played worse than Allen. I take Allen long term over Tyrod no question. But lets keep it real, Allen has looked very shaky at times and was downright awful yesterday. Allen has much higher upside but is not a better QB consistently  than Tyrod yet. Take away the turnovers, given the Bills field position yesterday I bet they get at least 2-3 more field goals yesterday and win that game with a "Tyrod" at QB.

I am keeping it real by pointing out that comparisons between a fifth year QB, who benefited from a targeted high school and college QB development strategy and a second year player without the benefit of that league experience or the same kind of early development in high school and college, are a stretch.

 

My post wasn’t directed at you, necessarily,  and we both want the same from Allen I’m sure. 

 

1 hour ago, Bangarang said:


yeah but Tyrod hadn’t started 16 games yet so he was still a rookie. That’s how it works right?

That’s not how it works at all. 

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3 hours ago, VW82 said:

 

It’s not that simple though. Eventually his incredible luck when it comes to fumble recoveries, dropped/reversed INTs, etc., is going to flip. The fact is Josh isn’t protecting the football. He can continue improving in all the other areas we’ve all been discussing since last year but if he keeps giving the other teams so many chances at takeaways it isn’t going to work.

 

Also, compare his TOV% to those other guys not just raw numbers with no context. It’s not close.


well facts are the facts. I know now we want to take the numbers and twist them another way because the OP and his 13 fumble rant just got shown QBs fumble. 

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

Fumble recoveries rates are entirely a function of luck, but you do realize that he should have been called for a fumble vs the Giants that was picked up and returned for a TD in the first half, correct?


And you realize he should have had a Incomplete on the INT this last week right?

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1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:


well facts are the facts. I know now we want to take the numbers and twist them another way because the OP and his 13 fumble rant just got shown QBs fumble. 


And you realize he should have had a Incomplete on the INT this last week right?

He well deserved that INT for making a horrible decision and throwing it right to the DB in the midst of triple coverage. If you want to let him off on the most niggling of arcane NFL technicalities rather than judge him for what he actually did on the play, be my guest. 

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Just now, dave mcbride said:

He well deserved that INT for making a horrible decision and throwing it right to the DB in the midst of triple coverage. If you want to let him off on the most niggling of arcane NFL technicalities rather than judge him for what he actually did on the play, be my guest. 

You are the one that brought up a play that should have been called the other way. So I did the same. What do we move the goalposts around here?

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Just now, MAJBobby said:

You are the one that brought up a play that should have been called the other way. So I did the same. What do we move the goalposts around here?

No, I'm focusing on his PLAY, not weird NFL rules or whether or not something should have been reversed or not. He fumbled the ball on that play, and it wasn't called. And he threw a terrible, amateurish pick that arguably should have been reversed (although it wasn't entirely clear from the replay)  because of a very weird rule. Both were bad ball securities plays by him irrespective of refereeing. 

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Just now, dave mcbride said:

No, I'm focusing on his PLAY, not weird NFL rules or whether or not something should have been reversed or not. He fumbled the ball on that play, and it wasn't called. And he threw a terrible, amateurish pick that arguably should have been reversed (although it wasn't entirely clear from the replay)  because of a very weird rule. Both were bad ball securities plays by him irrespective of refereeing. 

 

Whistle Blew, no fumble see how that works.  You called it out and said it SHOULD HAVE, so I did the same.  see we can play that game ALL day long

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Just now, MAJBobby said:

 

Whistle Blew, no fumble see how that works.  You called it out and said it SHOULD HAVE, so I did the same.  see we can play that game ALL day long

It wasn't clear *at all* that fumbled after the whistle was blown. Saying that you know that is not based on actual evidence. But whatever.   I'm talking about ball security, and I feel like I'm talking with Allen's technicality-obsessed lawyer.

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Just now, dave mcbride said:

It wasn't clear *at all* that fumbled after the whistle was blown. Saying that you know that is not based on actual evidence. But whatever.   I'm talking about ball security, and I feel like I'm talking with Allen's technicality-obsessed lawyer.

I am saying it because in the replay you hear the whistle and that is exactly what the Refs said.  So if you want to play the hypothetical game we can it is always fun.

 

Like the Penalty that SHOULD have been called for hitting Allen in the head?  It wasnt

Or what about the 3 intentional groundings not called

or the PI on Smoke NOT called.  

 

Want to keep playing the play that never happened game

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5 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

I am saying it because in the replay you hear the whistle and that is exactly what the Refs said.  So if you want to play the hypothetical game we can it is always fun.

 

Like the Penalty that SHOULD have been called for hitting Allen in the head?  It wasnt

Or what about the 3 intentional groundings not called

or the PI on Smoke NOT called.  

 

Want to keep playing the play that never happened game

What the hell are you even talking about?? I'm talking about Allen's manifest ball security issues. Sheesh.

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42 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

QBs fumble. Those are facts. No matter how much process you preach.

 

That wasn't my point. Quarterbacks are the most exposed players on the field by their very nature, I think most of us will agree with that.

 

My issue was with you pretending that fumbles are only bad if they result in lost possession.

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2 minutes ago, Blokestradamus said:

 

That wasn't my point. Quarterbacks are the most exposed players on the field by their very nature, I think most of us will agree with that.

 

My issue was with you pretending that fumbles are only bad if they result in lost possession.


Is a Sack with no fumble the same as a Fumble and the recovery in terms of the actual play on the field at that specific time?

 

so if a Sack occurs at the 30 of the Bills. Is that Result ANY different than Allen fumbling the Ball with a Bills recovery in the 30?

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2 hours ago, MAJBobby said:


QBs fumble. Those are facts. No matter how much process you preach. 

Notice you ignored Mahomes and Watson interesting 

 

Watson has played 27 games. Mahomes is at 21. Allen is at 16.

 

All are fumbling at a considerably lesser pace than Allen. Add in INT % and it gets worse.

Edited by cle23
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8 hours ago, jrober38 said:

 

There's no evidence whatsoever that he's learning from his mistakes. 

 

He makes the same mistakes pretty much every single game. 

He’s young and over competitive. He needs to realize it’s ok to not get a first down, throw the ball away, you don’t have to scramble etc. 

 

He feels the pressure that he’s our guy. But he’s not the only guy. He’s now learned to just get down a play another series. Brady did nothing yesterday but played smart. That’s the difference. The play he was hit was 3rd down. He was going for the first down. With an entire quarter left 4th and 5 is not bad.... he will learn.

 

That being said, Daboll needs to get him some roll outs, sprint outs and get rid of it quickly. Get Knox the ball quickly. Suck the defense in and then give them a double move and go deep.

 

He will be fine. Fans forget the magnitude of that game, Josh obviously let it get to him and Bew England’s defense is legit. Next game.

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