Have You Started To Lose Faith in Josh Allen?

[london_bills]

I WANT TO BE WRONG ABOUT JOSH ALLEN

[Canadian Bills Fan]

 

 

[John from Riverside]

In the very nicest tone I can say to the OP

 

Josh Allen had a horrible game

 

Josh Allen is the future of this team.....so you damn well better hope that plays well

 

Belichick makes young QBs look very bad OFTEN

 

Josh Allen prior to Sunday's game was throwing for over 250 yards a game.......was the major reason for the wins.......

 

Yes....its not perfect.....yes....I dont like the ball security right now....yes.....I hate that we lost to the patriots.

 

BUT GIVE IT A REST WITH THIS "BOO HOO Im losing faith in Josh Allen" after one loss...the team is 3 and 1...Josh is a big reason for that.   We are right on schedule to make the playoffs

 

 

[BringBackOrton]

14 minutes ago, billsy'est said:

@jrober38 should be banned straight up, and this dates back to the BBMB.

 

Let's break this down.

 

• In a (give or take) 200-page thread on the BBMB, where @jrober38 opined that Jay Cutler was better than any of the Bills' QBs and that they should trade a bunch of picks to bring Cutler into the fold.
• In a multiple-dozen thread, or three, about trading all of the Bills' picks for Jameis Winston, again on the BBMB.
• In a thread here, how many years ago, about trading all of the Bills' picks for... Carson Wentz.  Does Wentz seem so blue chip these days?  He does not.

It's not that one has a point of view.  It's that's one is a crusader.  For the longest time, in my last run here, I had thought that jeffismagic and @jrober38 were the same person.  Then I realized that they were different people.  Holy *****.  How can two #######s have this obsession with ruining a message board in exactly the same way.  It's not that they have differing opinions from me.  It's that, even if I ignore the heck out of them, the message board is ruined because they reply to everything

 

With the @jeffismagic rule, @jrober38 should be banned.  And when he returns as spursfan, he should be banned again, and with extreme prejudice.

 

Bring back jeffismagic though. I mean that dude was right on the money.

[SoTier]

8 minutes ago, Juice_32 said:

 

Wait, you'd trade Allen for any of those 3?

 

The Bills would likely be 4-0 with any of those three, so yeah, I would.   At this point, and especially yesterday, Allen isn't a competent NFL QB.   The NFL isn't a pickup game in street in front of your house, but that seems to be what Allen keeps trying to play.

[jrober38]

5 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/leaders.asp?range=NFL&rank=043&type=Passing&year=

 

 

 

This is awesome. Thanks.

 

It'll take a while to dig through, but a few initial reactions.

 

1. Allen is a very slow starter. His 1st quarter comp % is near the bottom of the league.

2. Allen is consistent over the course of a game (1st half QB Rating = 69.7, 2nd half = 69.5)

3. Looking at #2, given how good he is in the 4th quarter, he must be a complete train wreck in the 3rd quarter

4. He's very efficient in the red zone 

5. He's pretty good on 3rd down

 

Obvious points of emphasis:

- improve in the 1st quarter

- improve in the 3rd quarter

- improve on 1st down

 

Thanks for the link. 

[london_bills]

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

In the very nicest tone I can say to the OP

 

Josh Allen had a horrible game

 

Josh Allen is the future of this team.....so you damn well better hope that plays well

 

Belichick makes young QBs look very bad OFTEN

 

Josh Allen prior to Sunday's game was throwing for over 250 yards a game.......was the major reason for the wins.......

 

Yes....its not perfect.....yes....I dont like the ball security right now....yes.....I hate that we lost to the patriots.

 

BUT GIVE IT A REST WITH THIS "BOO HOO Im losing faith in Josh Allen" after one loss...the team is 3 and 1...Josh is a big reason for that.   We are right on schedule to make the playoffs

 

 

Sure.

You have made it clear where you stand, however do you not have reservations in the back of your mind?

 

 

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, BringBackOrton said:

BringBackJeffismagic though. I mean that dude was right on the money.

 

Looks like it's time to edit your username.

[jrober38]

9 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

Seriously?

 

I get all my stats from NFL.com. 

 

Never seen any of these there. 

[billsy'est]

Just now, BringBackOrton said:

Bring back jeffismagic though. I mean that dude was right on the money.

On some perverse level I prefer jeffismagic.  I freaking loved Mahomes, but still, years pass, you get older, you have children, and he's not on the team.  So you deal with it.  At some point it seems counterproductive to complain about what is not about the Bills.

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Looks like it's time to edit your username.

I just want to be FireChan again

Just now, billsy'est said:

On some perverse level I prefer jeffismagic.  I freaking loved Mahomes, but still, years pass, you get older, you have children, and he's not on the team.  So you deal with it.  At some point it seems counterproductive to complain about what is not about the Bills.

I mean if I was ridiculed for months about QB love and then that QB turned out to be the Lebron of the NFL, I would rub it in everyone’s face until I died.

[Albany,n.y.]

45 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Lol they telegraphed cover 0 over and over. Josh threw off his back foot without pressure for two easy picks. BB had a good game plan because it rattled Josh and put him in a position to implode, which he did.

Like every other inexperienced QB that plays against the Patriots.  Maybe you can find 1 or 2 exceptions, but the majority of 1st & 2nd year QBs end up looking like fools when matched up against a Belichick defense.  

[Scott7975]

2 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

This is awesome. Thanks.

 

It'll take a while to dig through, but a few initial reactions.

 

1. Allen is a very slow starter. His 1st quarter comp % is near the bottom of the league.

2. Allen is consistent over the course of a game (1st half QB Rating = 69.7, 2nd half = 69.5)

3. Looking at #2, given how good he is in the 4th quarter, he must be a complete train wreck in the 3rd quarter

4. He's very efficient in the red zone 

5. He's pretty good on 3rd down

 

Obvious points of emphasis:

- improve in the 1st quarter

- improve in the 3rd quarter

- improve on 1st down

 

Thanks for the link. 

You're welcome.  Allen has a long way to go.  I just feel its way too soon to throw the towel in just yet.  Allen could be one of the best in the league if he can learn and cut down the mistakes.  He could also be one of the worst if he doesn't.  He certainly has to improve.  His attitude and ability is definitely there.  

[billsy'est]

3 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

I just want to be FireChan again

I mean if I was ridiculed for months about QB love and then that QB turned out to be the Lebron of the NFL, I would rub it in everyone’s face until I died.

Yes, but as a lurker, I'm sure that you should post 1,000,000+ times about it.  And that is my gripe with the mighty @jrober38.  Yes, his assessments are correct enough.  But no, nobody wants to read about it many times over.  Yeah, I get it, and yeah we probably agree.  I'm post middle age, so let's get on with it.

 

Edited September 30, 2019 by billsy'est

[DrDawkinstein]

6 minutes ago, billsy'est said:

On some perverse level I prefer jeffismagic.  I freaking loved Mahomes, but still, years pass, you get older, you have children, and he's not on the team.  So you deal with it.  At some point it seems counterproductive to complain about what is not about the Bills.

 

But the idea that Mahomes success happens in a vacuum, meaning he'd be just as good on the Bills over the last 2-3 years, with our non-QB-centric coaching staff, not having a chance to sit for a full season behind a 10yr vet/former #1 overall QB, behind what has been a horrible line the last 2 years... just isnt valid.

 

The Offensive SCHEME alone that Reid is running is light years ahead of what Dabol is running currently.

 

I like Mahomes, but we would have turned him into another JP Losman, and we'd be posting in a thread about "Is it time to move on from Mahomes?"

 

 

Edited September 30, 2019 by DrDawkinstein

[billsfan1959]

2 minutes ago, billsy'est said:

On some perverse level I prefer jeffismagic.  I freaking loved Mahomes, but still, years pass, you get older, you have children, and he's not on the team.  So you deal with it.  At some point it seems counterproductive to complain about what is not about the Bills.

This is where I am at. I liked Mahommes as well, although, I don't think there were many people who thought he was going to be as good as he has turned out to be. The point is: What good does it do to complain about things you can't control or you can't change?

[DrDawkinstein]

4 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

 

I mean if I was ridiculed for months about QB love and then that QB turned out to be the Lebron of the NFL, I would rub it in everyone’s face until I died.

 

I dont remember anyone ridiculing him that he was wrong about Mahomes, just that it didnt matter because you cant change history, and the situations werent the same.

[jrober38]

Just now, Scott7975 said:

You're welcome.  Allen has a long way to go.  I just feel its way too soon to throw the towel in just yet.  Allen could be one of the best in the league if he can learn and cut down the mistakes.  He could also be one of the worst if he doesn't.  He certainly has to improve.  His attitude and ability is definitely there.  

 

I agree. The talent is there, he needs to cut it out with the boneheaded errors. 

[John from Riverside]

7 minutes ago, london_bills said:

Sure.

You have made it clear where you stand, however do you not have reservations in the back of your mind?

 

 

Nope

 

Josh Allen has already shown that he is a winner.....will he make it to the level of top 5 QBs?  I cant answer that too many variables.

 

down by 6......one minute left to go in the game......I want Josh Allen.

[billsy'est]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

But the idea that Mahomes success happens in a vaccuum, meaning he'd be just as good on the Bills over the last 2-3 years, with our non-QB-centric coaching staff, not having a chance to sit for a full season behind a 10yr vet/former #1 overall QB, behind what has been a horrible line the last 2 years... just isnt valid.

 

The Offensive SCHEME alone that Reid is running is light years ahead of what Dabol is running currently.

 

I like Mahomes, but we would have turned him into another JP Losman, and we'd be posting in a thread about "Is it time to move on from Mahomes?"

Okay, so final thoughts before I return to lurk mode until the end of the season and beyond.  The Ryan regime would've ruined Mahomes for sure, and Doug Whaley... ugh.  He was great, he seems to be a generational talent at the position, and yet I do not care... because he isn't on this team, probably will never end up on this team, and you don't cut bait with a top-10 draft pick at the position for at least 3 years.

 

My point remains: @jrober38 is toxic and should be excised from TBD if he can't keep it in his pants if only slightly.  This is a fantastic message board and I love reading it from Friday through Monday while I sip my coffee after the kids are out of the house.  Don't wreck it.  Revise, and in the absence of that guy.

[John from Riverside]

11 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

The Bills would likely be 4-0 with any of those three, so yeah, I would.   At this point, and especially yesterday, Allen isn't a competent NFL QB.   The NFL isn't a pickup game in street in front of your house, but that seems to be what Allen keeps trying to play.

.....................

[Alphadawg7]

12 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Im gonna end up getting banned this week......:(

 

Hahaha I feel ya...why do you think I quit this board for a bit a week and a half ago?  Same reason...different topic.

 

An outreach of posters and mods via direct messaging brought me back in  

 

But...I picked a bad week to return as I can see its going to be a trainwreck, sky is falling week around here.  

[jrober38]

1 minute ago, billsy'est said:

Okay, so final thoughts before I return to lurk mode until the end of the season and beyond.  The Ryan regime would've ruined Mahomes for sure, and Doug Whaley... ugh.  He was great, he seems to be a generational talent at the position, and yet I do not care... because he isn't on this team, probably will never end up on this team, and you don't cut bait with a top-10 draft pick at the position for at least 3 years.

 

My point remains: @jrober38 is toxic and should be excised from TBD if he can't keep it in his pants if only slightly.  This is a fantastic message board and I love reading it from Friday through Monday while I sip my coffee after the kids are out of the house.  Don't wreck it.  Revise, and in the absence of that guy.

 

You love reading it but you joined 26 minutes ago?

 

Hmmm. 

[DrDawkinstein]

2 minutes ago, billsy'est said:

Okay, so final thoughts before I return to lurk mode until the end of the season and beyond.  The Ryan regime would've ruined Mahomes for sure, and Doug Whaley... ugh.  He was great, he seems to be a generational talent at the position, and yet I do not care... because he isn't on this team, probably will never end up on this team, and you don't cut bait with a top-10 draft pick at the position for at least 3 years.

 

My point remains: @jrober38 is toxic and should be excised from TBD if he can't keep it in his pants if only slightly.  This is a fantastic message board and I love reading it from Friday through Monday while I sip my coffee after the kids are out of the house.  Don't wreck it.  Revise, and in the absence of that guy.

 

Technically, Mahomes first year would have been McDermott's first year. So he comes in and learns from... Rick Dennison? Yikes.

 

And then we pull a Billsy move on Mahomes, and switch OCs after his rookie year. Thus setting his development even further back. And make him play yet again behind a horrible OL. With no weapons.

[VW82]

7 hours ago, Phil The Thrill said:

I was at the game Sunday and there was 1 reason the Bills lost the game.  They lost the game for one reason - Josh Allen.  He was absolutely putrid at QB.  I’m a big fan of Allen but he was THE reason why we lost.  
 

We’re starting to get to the point where you can’t use the whole “lack of experience” excuses for Allen.  For all the progress be seemed to make, we still see him revert back to the traits (holding onto the ball, poor footwork passing up short routes, inaccuracies) from college.  
 

We saw on Sunday that the thing he does well, scrambling, leaves his open for huge cheap shots to the head.  

He also doesn’t seem to be elevating the offense either.  Take a look at how much better NYG has been since Daniel Jones took over last week.  Or how much better Cleveland was behind Baker and not Tyrod.  Or to a MUCH lesser extent Gardiner Minshew in Jacksonville.   Allen has struggled to generate much more than 20 points per game.
 

So have you lost faith in Josh Allen?

 

If you haven’t lost faith, what give you hope that he will eventually start elevating the offense?  

I’m completely on the fence, but trending toward skepticism, unfortunately. 

 

I'll bite. He's tantalizing and seemingly a good kid, and that gives me hope. We forget just how few games Allen's played with actual NFL coaching and talent around him. It takes time to unlearn all those bad habits and form new ones in their place.

 

I agree with you -- Allen is holding the offense/team back. There have been way too many mistakes and he's been rather lucky that more of them didn't come back to bite us vs. Jets and Bengals. We easily could be 1-3. I was ready to move on after the game yesterday but it's probably still too soon. I think we need to give him this year (and risk blowing a chance at making the playoffs) to find out 100% that he can't do it. Right now I'm at 90%. But he's the QB of the Bills -- someone we gave up the farm for -- and should be given every opportunity to hang himself. Hopefully he gets a chance to sit out for a game or two and reassess like last year. Sometimes watching = learning. In short, hope comes from the combination of his undeniable talent + much steeper learning curve.  

Edited September 30, 2019 by VW82

[london_bills]

5 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

I agree. The talent is there, he needs to cut it out with the boneheaded errors. 

Talent is not enough. If you are drafted 7th overall then you are very talented. 

 

Its the application of that talent, attitude and thinking under pressure situations that concerns me.

[C.Biscuit97]

34 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Yep, he's had a couple good games.  He also threw a dumb pick 6 late yesterday that could have cost his team the game.  And he's 5 years into his career.  Yet some want to throw Allen over the side already.

 

I will say yet again today:  Allen stunk yesterday. He has to get the dumb throws under control, but having watched what he did the first three games and in the TD drive yesterday, he can do that.  It just has to become the norm for him.

Oh, I would hate to root for Winston for various reasons.  The crazy part is when he’s good Winston, he’s one of the best pure passers in the nfl. 

[John from Riverside]

Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Hahaha I feel ya...why do you think I quit this board for a bit a week and a half ago?  Same reason...different topic.

 

An outreach of posters and mods via direct messaging brought me back in  

 

But...I picked a bad week to return as I can see its going to be a trainwreck, sky is falling week around here.  

The team is 3 and 1.....Josh Allen had a LOT to do with that

 

Now....because we lost by 6 to a team that is just straight steam rolling every other team they face.....we ended up having a chance to win it in the end.....(lets not bring up that if we dont have a punt blocked for a touchdown and a missed field goal we WIN THE DAMN GAME

 

and the sky is falling here.....get a fricken grip people

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Technically, Mahomes first year would have been McDermott's first year. So he comes in and learns from... Rick Dennison? Yikes.

 

And then we pull a Billsy move on Mahomes, and switch OCs after his rookie year. Thus setting his development even further back. And make him play yet again behind a horrible OL. With no weapons.

Dennison had a better year than Daboll last year.  He was a total scapegoat for that season. 

[Socal-805]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Nope. Incorrect.

 

He was a reason. But if you had to pick only one, it would be the blocked punt. Or the missed FG. Both before Allen's performance. Those were each single, specific plays that greatly turned the tide of the game. You cant spot the Pats 10 pts and then lose by 6 16-10.

 

Nope.  INCORRECT.

 

Josh Allen cost the Bills the game.  

[BillsfanAZ]

It always amazes me how quickly fans want inexperienced players to be great. Allen is going to have bad series and bad games. He is going to make mistakes and bone headed plays. He is also going to make some amazing throws and make some amazing plays. The offense is better than last years but it is not a high power offense. The Bills seem to have a hard time dealing with pressure. I still think they are a couple pieces on offense away from being a solid offense. 

[DrDawkinstein]

5 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Dennison had a better year than Daboll last year.  He was a total scapegoat for that season. 

 

Maybe. But he isnt the QB-guru Andy Reid and his staff are. Was more my point.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

9 minutes ago, Socal-805 said:

 

Nope.  INCORRECT.

 

Josh Allen cost the Bills the game.  

You're entitled to your opinion. You would be wrong, but that's just my opinion of course too. 

[DrDawkinstein]

4 minutes ago, Socal-805 said:

 

Nope.  INCORRECT.

 

Josh Allen cost the Bills the game.  

 

 Oh *****, you used bold. Checkmate.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

45 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

Since QB rating is the only stat that you seem to look at let me find a few for you that Allen is doing well at...

 

4th in rating in the 4th quarter

7th on 3rd down completions for first downs

3rd in first downs per attempt on 3rd and long

13th in first downs per attempt on 3rd and medium

12th on first downs per attempt on 3rd and short

10th in completion % in the 4th quarter

12th in completion % inside the opponents 20 yard line

10th in rating inside the opponents 20 yard line

15th in rating inside the opponents 10 yard line

13th in rating in 4wr sets

10th in passing % in late and close games

 

Those are all good passing stats.  But yeah, he is the worst passer in the league because rating and you said so.  If the kid cuts down the turnovers he will go from "one of the worst passers in the league" to top 10-15.  All at 23 years old with 15 games experience.  Again, lets watch the whole season.  Not get crazy after a bad game against what could be NFLs best defense.

Don't let bothersome facts like these ^^^^^^ rain on the Debbie Downer Monday greatest hot take hits parade by any means however!

[billsfan1959]

14 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Hahaha I feel ya...why do you think I quit this board for a bit a week and a half ago?  Same reason...different topic.

 

An outreach of posters and mods via direct messaging brought me back in  

 

But...I picked a bad week to return as I can see its going to be a trainwreck, sky is falling week around here.  

Always enjoy your posts. I can always count on a reasonable, objective viewpoint.

[BBills88]

Josh Allen needs to work on his footwork and pocket presence. I need to learn to climb up the pocket sometimes instead of running backwards and to the right all the time.

[atlbillsfan1975]

1 hour ago, Socal-805 said:

 

 

Well.  yes.  USA TODAY article I read when looking for something else.

 

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/09/this-statistical-comparison-should-have-bills-worried-about-josh-allen

 

 

USA Today?! Ok. I watch the Bills and do not need someone else to think for me. 

[billsfan1959]

11 minutes ago, Socal-805 said:

 

Nope.  INCORRECT.

 

Josh Allen cost the Bills the game.  

You can make it as bold as you want and put it all in caps if you wish. It would still be a lazy, superficial analysis of the game...

[ngbills]

3 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Don't let bothersome facts like these ^^^^^^ rain on the Debbie Downer Monday greatest hot take hits parade by any means however!

Debbie Downer? We have some good and some bad.

 

Allen played bad...fact. Positive - this D is either legit or the Pats are not as good as people think.