Trent Murphy - What Am I Missing?

[skibum]

11 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Bring on johnson

That’s what she said.

[LSHMEAB]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

This. This. This. 

 

That's all. 

 

Edit: well not quite all..... Murphy thinks "the edge" is just a guitarist in U2. 

Murphy MAY be a process guy, but he certainly isn't out there playing McD's brand of "complimentary" football.

[LSHMEAB]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

In the season he had 9 sacks for Washington, he didn't start one game. He was a pass rushing specialist for them, and at the end of the day he's going to remain a pass rushing specialist . However, this is a passing league, and a guy who can get to the passer regularly is more valuable than a low-twitch plodder whose best attribute is effectively setting the edge in the run game (i.e., Shaq up until now). 

I don't disagree with this, which is what gives him some value. My main gripe is that he does NOTHING for the pass rusher on the other side of the LOS. That matters. It's one thing to lose contain against the run, etc. That's not what he's here to do. It's another to run yourself entirely out of a play to the point where the opponent is essentially playing 11 on 10. If you watch film, which I know YOU do, you'll notice that he's often completely out of the picture after his initial move.

[dave mcbride]

3 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Murphy MAY be a process guy, but he certainly isn't out there playing McD's brand of "complimentary" football.

McDermott knows the power of getting to the QB. The 2013 Panthers (12-4; 2nd in yards allowed, 2nd in points allowed; first in sacks) had a ridiculous 60 sacks, and those sacks were a large reason they were so dominant. They were just slightly above average in giving up rushing yards on a per attempt basis, but absolutely dominated in the pressure game (a ridiculous 9.6 percent sack rate on opposing qb dropbacks).

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/car/2013.htm

1 minute ago, LSHMEAB said:

I don't disagree with this, which is what gives him some value. My main gripe is that he does NOTHING for the pass rusher on the other side of the LOS. That matters. It's one thing to lose contain against the run, etc. That's not what he's here to do. It's another to run yourself entirely out of a play to the point where the opponent is essentially playing 11 on 10. If you watch film, which I know YOU do, you'll notice that he's often completely out of the picture after his initial move.

Yup, and I'm not saying he's the second coming or anything like that. But he has shown that he can get to the qb at an above average rate, and that's a huge asset given the overall quality of the DB corps. That's the sort of thing that leads to turnovers. If Murphy plays well in the pass rush game, no one is going to want to face them given the overall talent level on the defense. 

[Trogdor]

3 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Yes he dominates against guys that will be on the practice squad.?

Thats a good thing.  Lawson seems really motivated.

I don't think Lawson has ever been bad, but we had unrealistic expectations here. He wasn't a pass rusher in college and he isn't in the NFL. I'd be happy if he can take out the tackle, guard, and center like he did against Carolina.

[Trogdor]

12 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

McDermott knows the power of getting to the QB. The 2013 Panthers (12-4; 2nd in yards allowed, 2nd in points allowed; first in sacks) had a ridiculous 60 sacks, and those sacks were a large reason they were so dominant. They were just slightly above average in giving up rushing yards on a per attempt basis, but absolutely dominated in the pressure game (a ridiculous 9.6 percent sack rate on opposing qb dropbacks).

Probably didn't hurt that Star was the worst one in the front 7. They were stacked.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Signed:  Nate Peterman's Mom.

But didn’t she send that to the Raiders fans? 

[Dablitzkrieg]

7 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

Maybe he needs some more performance enhancing drugs to maintain his mediocrity 

I'd love to see you and your dad-bod out there getting your ass kicked

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

But didn’t she send that to the Raiders fans? 

 

No they don’t have a process

[LSHMEAB]

2 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

McDermott knows the power of getting to the QB. The 2013 Panthers (12-4; 2nd in yards allowed, 2nd in points allowed; first in sacks) had a ridiculous 60 sacks, and those sacks were a large reason they were so dominant. They were just slightly above average in giving up rushing yards on a per attempt basis, but absolutely dominated in the pressure game (a ridiculous 9.6 percent sack rate on opposing qb dropbacks).

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/car/2013.htm

Yup, and I'm not saying he's the second coming or anything like that. But he has shown that he can get to the qb at an above average rate, and that's a huge asset given the overall quality of the DB corps. That's the sort of thing that leads to turnovers. If Murphy plays well in the pass rush game, no one is going to want to face them given the overall talent level on the defense. 

Oh, I'm ALL about generating pressure, wreaking havoc, aggressive defense, and creating turnovers. That's the formula for defensive success in an era where it's unrealistic to expect to hold a quality offense to >24 PPG. My issue is that I don't know that Murphy is a good enough pass rusher to mitigate the liabilities. I haven't looked at the particulars; maybe his pressure rate is great in limited action and I just haven't seen it. I do trust the numbers. But I look at a guy like Aaron Schobel for instance; he was constantly berated for not setting the edge, but he made enough plays to mitigate that deficiency. Each player has a particular skill set and you want to see the good outweigh the bad(no blank). I'm just not sure that's the case with Murphy. It would be great if he could stay on the field so we could get a better sample size. Shaq is gonna be Shaq. He's not a gamechanger, but I suppose you'd have to consider him "solid." We're just gonna have to hope TM can avoid the injury bug and make some plays in obvious passing down/distance situations. My strong preference would have been to address this issue aggressively in the offseason, but if this is how they're gonna roll....we shall see.

[LB3]

Pumping him up as potential trade bait? Then keep Love and Johnson.

[GG]

15 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Oh, I'm ALL about generating pressure, wreaking havoc, aggressive defense, and creating turnovers. That's the formula for defensive success in an era where it's unrealistic to expect to hold a quality offense to >24 PPG. My issue is that I don't know that Murphy is a good enough pass rusher to mitigate the liabilities. I haven't looked at the particulars; maybe his pressure rate is great in limited action and I just haven't seen it. I do trust the numbers. But I look at a guy like Aaron Schobel for instance; he was constantly berated for not setting the edge, but he made enough plays to mitigate that deficiency. Each player has a particular skill set and you want to see the good outweigh the bad(no blank). I'm just not sure that's the case with Murphy. It would be great if he could stay on the field so we could get a better sample size. Shaq is gonna be Shaq. He's not a gamechanger, but I suppose you'd have to consider him "solid." We're just gonna have to hope TM can avoid the injury bug and make some plays in obvious passing down/distance situations. My strong preference would have been to address this issue aggressively in the offseason, but if this is how they're gonna roll....we shall see.

So he's the combination of the bad qualities of Schobel and Kelsay?

[plenzmd1]

15 hours ago, GG said:

I thought it was an odd coincidence that recently McD highlighted his play, followed by Leslie talking about him at length at today's press conference.  Then came the extended discussion between Murph & Tasker on their show.   All talked about how Trent is newly energized, doesn't have to worry about his past injuries and is truly contributing to the defense.

 

But all that talk isn't backed up by game film, where it's clear that Shaq is outperforming him.  Save for a nice spin move on a sack, Murphy has been as invisible as last year.  Wondering if the public pep talks are more for motivation or something else, because he's not showing it on the field.

I did not think he was invisible last year. Minnesota game you could see the old Murphy starting to emerge, he had a really strong Titans game, and was a real disrupter in the Houston game. Then in the one decision that really pissed me off from McD last year, he was still in with 5 minutes to go in that mauling the Bills took at Indy..and hurts his knee again. Misses 4 games ( i think)..and just starts to play again in the last couple of games. Clips below from a couple of those games, and when healhy he ws drawing a ton of doubles/chips..all good for the guys next to him or OLB on pressure from outside if him.

 

Hopefully he gets back to his DC form out of the gate this year.

 

https://www.buffalobills.com/video/film-room-sacks-vs-houston-texans

 

https://www.buffalobills.com/video/every-bills-forced-turnover-week-3

[JoPoy88]

15 hours ago, GG said:

I thought it was an odd coincidence that recently McD highlighted his play, followed by Leslie talking about him at length at today's press conference.  Then came the extended discussion between Murph & Tasker on their show.   All talked about how Trent is newly energized, doesn't have to worry about his past injuries and is truly contributing to the defense.

 

But all that talk isn't backed up by game film, where it's clear that Shaq is outperforming him.  Save for a nice spin move on a sack, Murphy has been as invisible as last year.  Wondering if the public pep talks are more for motivation or something else, because he's not showing it on the field.

 

You're not missing anything - Murphy sucks and is completely unreliable. There are various agendas at work trying to convince people otherwise. Glad to see you aren't falling for it.

Edited August 21, 2019 by JoPoy88

[MR8]

4 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

 

You're not missing anything - Murphy sucks and is completely unreliable. There are various agendas at work trying to convince people otherwise. Glad to see you aren't falling for it.

 

Interesting take, any support to back up your agenda? Or just cryptic statements? 

[YoloinOhio]

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

When he’s on the feild he’s the second best end on the team. I think the rave reviews are coming from his availably. 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

5 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

When he’s on the feild he’s the second best end on the team. I think the rave reviews are coming from his availably. 

By a lot. This fan base. Snap judgments are made and that’s just the end of it. Doesn’t matter that Trent is finally healthy and able to play to speed. Trent got his label and he is therefore terrible. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

7 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

By a lot. This fan base. Snap judgments are made and that’s just the end of it. Doesn’t matter that Trent is finally healthy and able to play to speed. Trent got his label and he is therefore terrible. 

 

Youve astutely pointed this out with other players too.

 

the list also includes:

Shady old and slow despite coaches insisting he’s the starter

zay  has no clue how to catch never will and is slow despite coaches insisting he’s the starting WR2. He should be cut in lieu of a cfl WR

Allen: for some he is inaccurate and is too fast to run therefore always will be

star: overpaid and underrepresented on the stat sheet, even though coaches insist he’s the startin 0 tech and linebackers credit him for doing a fine job

 

and in the other direction: 

foster: going to canton 

Edited August 25, 2019 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

2 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

Youve astutely pointed this out with other players too.

 

the list also includes:

Shady old and slow despite coaches insisting he’s the starter

zay  has no clue how to catch never will and is slow despite coaches insisting he’s the starting WR2. He should be cut in lieu of a cfl WR

Allen: for some he is inaccurate and is too fast to run therefore always will be

star: overpaid and underrepresented on the stat sheet, even though coaches insist he’s the startin 0 tech and linebackers credit him for doing a fine job

 

and in the other direction: 

foster: going to canton 

There are some names there I hadn’t thought about, but you are absolutely right. I’ve thought this narrative bias for a while, but I’m just now starting to be able to articulate it. It’s gross and i just wish we as a fan base were better.

[Rocket94]

On 8/20/2019 at 11:40 PM, LSHMEAB said:

This. He can generate some some pressure on occasion and get home, but FAR too often he's out of position both against the run and more importantly(in his case), against the pass. There's an art to an unofficial assisted sack and I don't think I've ever seen Murphy rack one up. Ideally, there are multiple guys forcing the QB to make a decision. If Murphy doesn't win his initial matchup, he's pretty much invisible. When healthy, he's not a worthless player, but he leaves alot to be desired.

 

Shaq never gets home, but he's better WRT being in position to collapse the pocket when Hughes is closing in. I'm beating a dead horse, but I really don't like our DE unit as a whole.

This capability of this DE unit is exaggerated, and we can be certain that it will be addressed by Beane. We already know that he has explored other avenues  and when the time is right he will. The first priority was to help Josh Allen with a better OL and some serviceable weapons. There is only so much talent available so the DE position is probably next. Until then, we will have to live in denial.

[Rocket94]

25 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

That's debatable and it's not saying much due to the lackluster talent at the position on the team. I'd take Shaq over Murphy.

 

Im interested to see how Ansah performs when he comes back from injury. Was hoping they'd sign him despite his injury history. 

Unfortunately it's going to hold the defense back from being a really good unit. The lack of pass rush is why this defense is solid but not a top unit.

I know, and when I think of this defense and the DE unit, I have to place an asterisk next to it.

Edited August 25, 2019 by Rocket94

[GG]

1 hour ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

By a lot. This fan base. Snap judgments are made and that’s just the end of it. Doesn’t matter that Trent is finally healthy and able to play to speed. Trent got his label and he is therefore terrible. 

Actually no

 

The OP was made after the first two games, and Murphy was a relative nonfactor in both, except for the 4th down sack. 

 

I haven't rewatched the Lions game to provide an opinion, but midway through preseason, Shaq has outplayed him

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

15 minutes ago, GG said:

Actually no

 

The OP was made after the first two games, and Murphy was a relative nonfactor in both, except for the 4th down sack. 

 

I haven't rewatched the Lions game to provide an opinion, but midway through preseason, Shaq has outplayed him

Wait. You watch games too? And you have a different opinion? I mean, why even explain or make an argument. You must be right. Solid contribution. 

[GG]

5 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

Wait. You watch games too? And you have a different opinion? I mean, why even explain or make an argument. You must be right. Solid contribution. 

Have another drink 

[C.Biscuit97]

He is this generation’s Chris Kelsay 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

Just now, GG said:

Have another drink 

Of our DEs, he has created more pressure than any other player on the team. He is the fastest DE, and he has more moves than Shaq. Shaq can’t get to the QB unless the play breaks down. 

[GG]

1 minute ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

Of our DEs, he has created more pressure than any other player on the team. He is the fastest DE, and he has more moves than Shaq. Shaq can’t get to the QB unless the play breaks down. 

First 2 game tapes don't show that, but keep swinging.  

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

1 minute ago, GG said:

First 2 game tapes don't show that, but keep swinging.  

Except it does. Assuming you watch it objectively. 

[GG]

10 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

Except it does. Assuming you watch it objectively. 

Yeah, I watch replays only to trash players.  

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

2 minutes ago, GG said:

Yeah, I watch replays only to trash players.  

Oh I know you don’t mean to. I’m saying you aren’t smart enough to know what you’re looking at.

[Rocket94]

On 8/21/2019 at 2:23 PM, JoPoy88 said:

 

You're not missing anything - Murphy sucks and is completely unreliable. There are various agendas at work trying to convince people otherwise. Glad to see you aren't falling for it.

It is called denial!

[LSHMEAB]

2 hours ago, Rocket94 said:

This capability of this DE unit is exaggerated, and we can be certain that it will be addressed by Beane. We already know that he has explored other avenues  and when the time is right he will. The first priority was to help Josh Allen with a better OL and some serviceable weapons. There is only so much talent available so the DE position is probably next. Until then, we will have to live in denial.

 

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

That's debatable and it's not saying much due to the lackluster talent at the position on the team. I'd take Shaq over Murphy.

 

Im interested to see how Ansah performs when he comes back from injury. Was hoping they'd sign him despite his injury history. 

Unfortunately it's going to hold the defense back from being a really good unit. The lack of pass rush is why this defense is solid but not a top unit.

Clowney!

[The Jokeman]

Trent generates pass rush similar to what Chris Kelsay did, he'll never be a 10 sack guy but think he can get 6-8 sacks if he can play a full 16 game schedule. I don't get all the hate he gets. It's not like we're paying him $12 million a season. 

[YoloinOhio]

3 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Trent generates pass rush similar to what Chris Kelsay did, he'll never be a 10 sack guy but think he can get 6-8 sacks if he can play a full 16 game schedule. I don't get all the hate he gets. It's not like we're paying him $12 million a season. 

He’s exactly what a 7 mill/year pass rusher looks like. If you want Clowney you need to pay Clowney money (which they might...)

[The Jokeman]

1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

He’s exactly what a 7 mill/year pass rusher looks like. If you want Clowney you need to pay Clowney money (which they might...)

I'm not sure Clowney's worth $12 million a year as he's been a good pass rusher in Houston but not top 10 NFL good. 

[GG]

Just watched the first half again, and my opinion hasn't changed too much.  Murphy looked better than in the first two games, but not enough to ease concern about that side of the DL.   

 

As a side note I won't be surprised if Bam Johnson doesn't supplant Murphy as starter by week 4.  

[Dr.Sack]

Reminds me of those guys who played opposite of Aaron Schobel - Ryan Denney from the 2000s era team. He’s got ideal size and when healthy a good push, but he will never be an edge rusher that can generate consistent pressure. His job is to collapse the pocket and set the edge on runs. He’s almost so tall he’s unable to get under and around the OT. Not a great player but fits a role.

[Solomon Grundy]

9 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

Trent generates pass rush similar to what Chris Kelsay did, he'll never be a 10 sack guy but think he can get 6-8 sacks if he can play a full 16 game schedule. I don't get all the hate he gets. It's not like we're paying him $12 million a season. 

He doesn't get as much hate as Shady does and Shady is a future HOFer

[MJS]

I think it's foolish to make sweeping judgements of a player, especially a starter, from a few limited snaps in preseason games.

 

No game plan. Vanilla plays. Starters probably not trying super hard. Can we at least wait till after week 1 to condemn this guy? Preferably week 2.

Edited August 26, 2019 by MJS