Allen vs Murray

[Don Otreply]

Lots of caps in that title, the time to let this thread die is now.

 

Go Bills!!!

[bigK14094]

Allen, Rosen, Darmold, Murry, are all really unproven....not having established their level of play.  I am thinking, however, these authors are going to eat their words, either this year or next.  imho, Allen won't be bottom when the season is over.  Maybe middle of the pack.....but not bottom.

[HereComesTheReignAgain]

I am getting an error message now when I try to view the article and don't see my comment when I view the article on my phone instead of my computer.  I think they blocked me and removed my comment.

[TigerJ]

10 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

 

Just when you have given up hope that there are stupid writers to entertain and baffle us, something like this comes along .....

You actually gave up hope of running across stupid writers for entertainment?  There are some things we will never run out of.  That's one of them.

[Captain Hindsight]

Cian Farley burner account would be my guess

[PetermansRedemption]

It was funny watching the national media in general fawn over Murray. Starting around mid off season when the rumors of him going number 1 to Arizona were swirling. Every NFL “analyst” was in full “ I have to find something to love on him” mode. Around there he started being labeled as this can’t miss number one overall generational prospect at QB. Never mind the fact that he will be getting hit by offensive linemen literally double his weight, or the fact that he’s a midget but NFL QB standards. 

7 minutes ago, bigK14094 said:

Allen, Rosen, Darmold, Murry, are all really unproven....not having established their level of play.  I am thinking, however, these authors are going to eat their words, either this year or next.  imho, Allen won't be bottom when the season is over.  Maybe middle of the pack.....but not bottom.

Murray is 100% unproven. The other 4 at least have game tape against NFL talent. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

5 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said:

Cian Farley burner account would be my guess

 

 

Dude yes!

 

[aristocrat]

man i hope there is some crow eaten later this year with all these articles. 

[CNY315]

1 hour ago, Chris from Rochester said:

I saw another "article" yesterday saying Josh Allen is ranked 32nd out of all the qbs this year. I wonder sometimes if people are still upset at him for his controversial tweets he mad when he was like 15 or whatever and desperately want him to fail.  It's obnoxious all the hate he gets

That was PFF I believe.

[DCOrange]

1 hour ago, Ralonzo said:

 

That one was a peach as well. The logic was something like, Allen had better passing numbers than Rosen but we rank Rosen higher because his OL sucked. Also, Allen scrambled better than Jackson but we rank Jackson higher because he gained more yards on designed QB runs. ?

 

I think it's likely PFF not basing it exclusively on their rookie seasons but including their draft scouting reports as well. PFF didn't think Allen was a good prospect coming out of college and then he mostly struggled as a rookie. I don't think PFF loved Rosen or Lamar coming out of college, but they definitely liked them a lot more than Allen so I think the logic is basically "good prospect, bad year" > "bad prospect, bad year". Hence why Kyler is above Allen despite never playing an NFL snap before; they think he's a great prospect.

[whatdrought]

"Murray was in a tough spot to succeed all night. His average starting position was his own 17-yard line, and he faced 3rd-and-11 or worse five different times. "

 

Do you know how you get into a 3rd and 11 situation?... do you? cause it seems like maybe you don't.

 

What a schmuck. 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

Just to recap, Allen was preached at all season last year by the punditry to improve short/medium passing game, up completion % and “take what the defense gives” more than bombs away. Allen does exactly this since last year ended, including every preseason game thus far, and this “author” decides that is “proof” he’s a poser. Carry on.

 

Also, I feel obliged to post the best use of “air quotes” in a monologue of all time, given my liberal use of them in this post...

https://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/weekend-update-segment---chris-farley-as-bennett-brauer/n26999

 

 

[JaCrispy]

I’m to the point now where I believe JA is in control of his own destiny regardless of people think or write about him...JA is just one of those players that is easy to pick on because of his pre existing stats...but I have a feeling he will have the last laugh.

[dakrider]

If I remember correctly one of the knocks on Allen last year was holding the ball to long, so getting rid of the ball quickly is a major plus.  Getting into the rhythm or habit of making the quick pass is significant.  

[aristocrat]

8 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

"Murray was in a tough spot to succeed all night. His average starting position was his own 17-yard line, and he faced 3rd-and-11 or worse five different times. "

 

Do you know how you get into a 3rd and 11 situation?... do you? cause it seems like maybe you don't.

 

What a schmuck. 

 

right? the bills are developing allen. working on different things and bringing him along. it's so important with young qbs.  

[The Avenger]

1 hour ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

I never stopped to think how bad Tom Brady really is. He may actually be the worst QB of all time.

 

 

 

Yeah - that Brady guy is always taking the snap and making the quick short pass to a guy like Edelman - anybody can do that. Dude is nothing more than a dime a dozen hack.

[elroy16]

8 minutes ago, dakrider said:

If I remember correctly one of the knocks on Allen last year was holding the ball to long, so getting rid of the ball quickly is a major plus.  Getting into the rhythm or habit of making the quick pass is significant.  

 

 

100% correct.

 

Sure, Allen throws to his primary target a number of times, but the author totally ignores that this is part of being a good QB, finding the best pre-snap matchup. On the seam throw to Sweeny, he makes a check (Which the author doesn't mention) and throws a perfect pass with anticipation. On the corner route to Sweeny, he makes a great throw with a muddy pocket. 

 

Allen definitely doesn't run at the first sight of pressure or his first read not being open. 

 

 

Pretty much a trash article.

Edited August 20, 2019 by elroy16

[DCofNC]

Josh Allen must have been spotted wearing a MAGA hat, it's usually the only way to garner so much hate without any facts.  

 

I'm a skeptic on Allen, genuinely, it's in my nature to look for the truth, not the fantasy.  He played reasonably well in the second half last year and honestly, he should have been treated like Maholmes and we would have never seen him on the field until the last game or two.  The Bills were piss poor in managing the QB situation last year.  They gave whoever they ran out there virtually zero talent to throw to, evident by the fact Zay Jones was your number one WR and fans are asking if he should be cut/traded befire this season.  The entire line MINUS ONE player was replaced.  The top 2 WRs replaced, top 3 TEs replaced, and don't forget he didn't have a run game, he lead the team in rushing, come on man, if that isn't evidence the kid was given the bone, you're blind.

 

On to performance, he was pretty mediocre, but he did enough to win some games in the NFL, with garbage talent around him.  Did he go into the offseason with a lot to work on? Yep.  Realistically, of the other rookies, only Mayfield out played him, and Mayfield had a really great season, good for him. 

 

To rank guys who have taken zero NFL snaps ahead of him is to say that every rookie QB is a success.  To have Rosen ahead of him is to say, a guy who was so bad, after being taken 10th overall and leading your team to the worst record in the NFL, he was dumped for a low second round pick and we'll find excuses as to why Fitzpatrick won't let him on the field over acknowledging Allen has shown more.  To say Jackson is better is basicallt to say you like the story better.. I'm leaving that one right there.  To put Murry over him after 2 preseason games, where he was wildly inconsistent is to say you expect more out of Murry, based off his colege film, there's nothing else to go on.   

 

End of the day, it's all speculative, subjective, bull####. I'm saying it again, I don't have a lot of faith in taking the backyard mentaility out of Allen and having him become an accurate pocket passer and I hope I'm dead wrong.  I do suspect, if he stays healthy, he will be in the Probowl conversation this year, he's going to be exciting and sometimes, down right infuriating, but he'll put this team on his back in enough games to make people pay attention.  He's an absolute monster out there.  His biggest hurdle is to show he can be consistent enough with ball placement and decision making to not cost you a lot of games, while still being able to sling it enough to win the ones most guys can't .   My biggest fear with him is he turns out to be a hybrid of Farve and Fitz, ballsy enough to make any throw and smart enough to know how to shred you when it isn't tight quarters, but not quite good enough with ball placement when they MAKE you beat them.  The guy that can wow you for spirts and not be able to throw his way out of a wet paper bag for others.. Thats the roller coaster he has to avoid.

[Bangarang]

This guy knew that if he wrote a terrible article pooping on Allen that all of Billsmafia would give him clicks. The comparison is so random and it was obvious this he just looked at the box scores and probably not too well since he thought Allen was supported by a strong run game. Basically, he’s a joke of a writer and fake news.

Edited August 20, 2019 by Bangarang

[Drunken Pygmy Goat]

1 hour ago, stosh64 said:

I don't get the agenda being pushed for Murray.

Bucky Brooks labels Murray a "Generational Talent" before he even plays a down in the regular season.  WTF?

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001041986/article/nfls-generational-talents-under-25-kyler-murray-belongs-in-club

 

I just don't see it with Murray yet.

 

Consider the source with the OP.

 

BWAHAHAHAHA

Check out the Twitter responses to this tools opinion "article".

 

 

There's a difference between "generational talent" and "generational player". One is proven, the other has the skills to potentially be special. That said, Murray is neither if those, and I would argue that Josh Allen is more of a generational talent than Murray, based on his arm and ability to run. Murray may be a good QB one day, but there is nothing to hang your hat on at this point to say definitively that he will be. The same can be said for Josh TBH (to a lesser extent), but he's certainly checking off boxes.  

 

Kyler may be a more accurate passer than Allen, but the article posted is nothing more than shock-value click bating at it's finest. It's an easy way for upstart sites to generate revenue via traffic volume creating more advertising money. Nothing creates more traffic than controversy, and for non-reputable sites, it's a proven tactic. One member in this thread mentioned that they just had to click, just to post a comment on their site. That's a win for the site, not for the member that posted the comment. I'll get more satifaction out of ignoring the site completely, as opposed to supporting their money driven agenda by telling them how stupid they are. 

[Trogdor]

Once defenses gameplan for him I expect Murray to get murdered just like Rosen. They had the worst Oline in the NFL and I don't think it's improved very much. They allowed something like 17 sacks under 2.5 seconds. I don't care how slippery they think he is, that team is still going to suck. 

[Augie]

2 hours ago, JoeF said:

"Allen’s stats were opposite Murray’s, but so were some other things. He was in an advantageous position all game, with many short-yardage down situations, a short field, and a strong run game. Allen also took almost every snap out of shotgun and made a lot of quick, safe, short passes. He completed five passes to Cole Beasley just past the line of scrimmage and a couple more to LeSean McCoy. These are the equivalent of run plays in 2019. Any NFL quarterback can catch the snap in shotgun and make a five-yard pass to his first read."

 

There was no run game when Allen was in the game...

 

The first drive was 3 rushes for 3 yards

The second drive was 2 rushes for 4 yards

 

7 yards rushing in 108 gained (10 yard penalty) -- and penalties, sacks and 3/4 third down conversions...I am all for good analysis and this ain't it

 

That was all I needed to know. I refuse to click. 

[TH3]

2 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

 

Lesson #2.  Make sure the title reflects what an IDIOT the articles author is 

Lesson # whatever: Don’t be such an overbearing knowitall ass to posters ....sheesh

[PromoTheRobot]

2 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

So just for the hell of it I Googled  the guy.  He has no credibility, fancies himself an expert on and writes on different sports, pop culture, whatever seems to strike his fancy.

 

This is what “journalism” has become.  Any fool with access to a phone or keyboard can write whatever they want.  There must be a way for TBD to discourage posting drivel like this.

 

Anybody who is willing to generate content "just for the experience and exposure."

 

I stopped at FanDuel Sportsbook (Meadowlands) yesterday and put money on the Bills making the playoffs (+400,) and winning the Super Bowl. (+8000. Why not?) The more crap about Allen and the Bills gets out there, the better the payouts become, so bring it on.

Edited August 20, 2019 by PromoTheRobot

[mykidsdad]

This guy, the writer, not the poster, HAS TO BE TROLLING. There's no way anyone could write that and think it is true. I mean you have to really try to write something that bass ackwards. It is like he was writing comedy he is so opposite to reality. At best you may be able to say preseason doesn't matter and Kyler could be great and Allen not so much despite the way they looked in preseason, not because of it. The writer has to be trolling.

[Albany,n.y.]

2 hours ago, Plano said:

Kyler Murray is going to be throwing the ball into the infield after he catches a fly ball while playing baseball for the A's.   

Fixed

[whatdrought]

2 hours ago, stosh64 said:

I don't get the agenda being pushed for Murray.

Bucky Brooks labels Murray a "Generational Talent" before he even plays a down in the regular season.  WTF?

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001041986/article/nfls-generational-talents-under-25-kyler-murray-belongs-in-club

 

I just don't see it with Murray yet.

 

Consider the source with the OP.

 

BWAHAHAHAHA

Check out the Twitter responses to this tools opinion "article".

 

 

 

 

[Seoulofstone]

Brandon Anderson looks like the dude off 21 jump street.

[The Plastic Cup]

3 minutes ago, mykidsdad said:

This guy, the writer, not the poster, HAS TO BE TROLLING.

 

It’s the same person.

[DCofNC]

It will be interesting to see how much abuse Murry is willing to take before he bails for baseball if things arent going well.

[whatdrought]

"Allen’s stats were opposite Murray’s, but so were some other things. He was in an advantageous position all game, with many short-yardage down situations, a short field, and a strong run game."

 

You luddites, don't you know that 8 rushes for 9 yards is a "strong Run game"?

 

 

 

Someone posted this as a response, I hadn't seen it yet- good breakdown- Also, this response: 

 

 

Edited August 20, 2019 by whatdrought

[Big Gun]

Yeah, IMO Murray has bust written all over him whereas Allen not so much.

[ddaryl]

Quote

Josh Allen is productive, but productivity alone doesn’t make you a good NFL quarterback.

 

 

Productivity is the very definition of good, maybe not greatness but it is definitely the definition of good.

 

yeah that article just proves anyone can be a op-ed journalist

[All_Pro_Bills]

This guy Anderson may believe that Murray is ahead of Allen and a "generational talent" but he should recognize that his book of work to date has been a couple poor pre-season performances along with playing in a major college program in a QB friendly system surrounded by outstanding talent as almost every position on the offense.  While Allen QB'd a poor Wyoming team supported by not a lot of talent and a less than perfect environment for grooming and developing a QB.  So yeah, Murray looked like a world beater on the highlight reel and on Saturday's.   Being prepared to assume a pro career in baseball parlance Murray started his pro career on third base and Allen started his at the plate facing a 1-2 count.

 

When Allen returned from injury last season he played decent football, certainly there was room for improvement.  And there obviously still is but by any measure I "see" improvement in his game based on work to date in the pre-season.  Having a better supporting cast and a year of experience at the pro level helps.  Maybe Murray improves and becomes a great QB and he starts to get the support from his teammates on offense that every QB needs to be successful.  If he does great for the Cardinals and for him.  As a Bills fan I won't be paying too much attention to Murray or the Cardinals once the season starts.        

 

 

[Phil The Thrill]

3 hours ago, JD333 said:

Kyler Murray Is Better Than He Looks This Preseason — and Josh Allen Is Worse

Numbers don’t tell the whole story. Murray is much closer to being a successful NFL quarterback than Allen.

Brandon Anderson

---

KYLER MURRAY AND JOSH ALLEN ARE TWO OF THE MORE INTRIGUING YOUNG NFL QUARTERBACKS. Murray is a rookie, the number one pick who was handed the reins to the Arizona Cardinals offense. Allen surprised pundits by going seventh last year, then surprised them again by looking better than expected down the stretch for the Buffalo Bills.

 

https://medium.com/sportsraid/kyler-murray-better-than-josh-allen-nfl-preseason-analysis-arizona-cardinals-buffalo-bills-quarterback-36f18ad3c990

 

 

This article makes very little sense.   Who makes future projections based on preseason football?   Didn’t Murray face the same depleted and “vanilla” defense that Allen did?  

 

 

[BillsFan4]

3 hours ago, Chris from Rochester said:

I saw another "article" yesterday saying Josh Allen is ranked 32nd out of all the qbs this year. I wonder sometimes if people are still upset at him for his controversial tweets he mad when he was like 15 or whatever and desperately want him to fail.  It's obnoxious all the hate he gets

I think it has more to do with their pre-draft analysis of Allen. 

 

Article after article was written saying that he would never be a good NFL QB. That nobody with his college stats has ever made it in the NFL and if he did make it he would be the biggest statistical outlier of all times (or something along those lines, I can’t remember exactly). 

 

Some said he’d be a great test for old school scouting vs. new school analytics (etc). 

 

So they aren’t going down without a fight (and to be fair, Allen still has plenty to prove)

 

 

[GG]

1 hour ago, whatdrought said:

"Allen’s stats were opposite Murray’s, but so were some other things. He was in an advantageous position all game, with many short-yardage down situations, a short field, and a strong run game."

 

You luddites, don't you know that 8 rushes for 9 yards is a "strong Run game"?

 

 

 

Someone posted this as a response, I hadn't seen it yet- good breakdown- Also, this response: 

 

 

 

I now also realize that I didn't notice how Allen froze the safety in waiting for Beasley to get open.  If he stares down Beasley (like he would have last year) the safety would have cheated to the slot and Allen wouldn't have a clear passing lane.

[John from Riverside]

4 hours ago, JD333 said:

Kyler Murray Is Better Than He Looks This Preseason — and Josh Allen Is Worse

Numbers don’t tell the whole story. Murray is much closer to being a successful NFL quarterback than Allen.

Brandon Anderson

---

KYLER MURRAY AND JOSH ALLEN ARE TWO OF THE MORE INTRIGUING YOUNG NFL QUARTERBACKS. Murray is a rookie, the number one pick who was handed the reins to the Arizona Cardinals offense. Allen surprised pundits by going seventh last year, then surprised them again by looking better than expected down the stretch for the Buffalo Bills.

 

https://medium.com/sportsraid/kyler-murray-better-than-josh-allen-nfl-preseason-analysis-arizona-cardinals-buffalo-bills-quarterback-36f18ad3c990

 

Let me guess....Murray doesnt have anyone to throw to now and Allen does.....right?   I havent read it

 

Guess wht....tough *****......Darnold had ppl to throw to last year and nobody said *****

[Albany,n.y.]

The fact that the writer was surprised Allen was picked 7th shows how little he knows.  Almost every mock draft had Allen higher.  The only surprise was that he lasted to 7th.  

 

[section122]

4 hours ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

I am not even going to click on that link and give the author or the website any validation. The entire premise is ridiculous. This appears to be someone who predicted Josh Allen would be a bust and he is desperate to be right.

 

OP needs to put in his post not to actually click.  I read the story and it is just as bad as you imagine.  Every thing that was bad for Murray happened to him not because of him and everything good that happened for Allen was in spite of him not because of him.  Clear clickbait garbage.  I'm mad at myself for clicking on the link.  At least I had my adblock on