Offensive Line by Committee? Chris Brown obtained my permission to run with the idea. #Versatility #FergyHasSpoken

[BuffaloBill]

1 minute ago, BringBackFergy said:

And you guys want to close TSW down for two hours after game days?? These types of ideas would be lost in  the black hole of slumbering/lost ingenuity.  

 

 

So true....

[LSHMEAB]

What about a package that focuses on making Tyree Jackson a receiving eligible guard? Joe Webb NEVER did that!

[JerseyBills]

This could never ever ever ever ever work with OL

[Chandler#81]

2 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

This could never ever ever ever ever work with OL

That’s the Spirit!

[Augie]

2 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

That’s the Spirit!

 

Some people just have no vision! 

 

How confused would they be if we swapped the OL for the DL? Think they would forfeit out of confusion? 

[Chandler#81]

2 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Some people just have no vision! 

 

How confused would they be if we swapped the OL for the DL? Think they would forfeit out of confusion? 

 

Well, he’s from Jersey, so...

 

Going with the thread theme, interchanging OL/DL can work -and has on occasion. William ‘the Refrigerator’ Perry and some guy named Kyle.. 

14 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

What about a package that focuses on making Tyree Jackson a receiving eligible guard? Joe Webb NEVER did that!

 

Realistically, no. There’s a significant difference in weight. Big guys will crush little guys 19 out of 20 times. Plus, it would require more rule changes for eligible Guards. But I like your thinking! 

Keep it up!?

[3rdand12]

9 hours ago, BringBackFergy said:

I know you are probably thinking there's a link to a profound article in this post, but NO. I came up with his idea all on my own. Watch how the football experts like ESPN, ProFootball Talk and Yahoo will pick up on this and run with it.  You guys just remember that old Fergy was the first to recognize the clear goal of our head coach: He is building an 5  cylinder engine on the O Line with pistons firing from different positions at all different times.

 

Here's what I mean:

 

What is McDermott's #1 goal in finding a suitable Offensive lineman??  ANSWER: Versatility

 

We have tackles that have played guard. We have guards that have played center. We have guards who played tackle. Shoot, we even had a TE who played tackle.  The point is, all through OTA's and minicamp, we have seen a variety of players playing at different spots.  Where else do we see this? On the defensive line of course.  DT's move to outside, DT's drop back, DE's move inside, DE/Linebackers move inside, etc.  So why not incorporate the movement and versatility of Offensive linemen in the same manner?

 

For example:  On 1st and 10, Morse lines up at center, Dawkins at Left Tackle, Feliciano at left Guard, Ford at right Guard and Nyseke at right Tackle. We gain 4 yards on a run play.  On 2nd and 6, we break huddle and Feliciano take the Center position, Dawkins moves to right Guard (his position for years) , Ford moves to right Tackle, Morse takes left Guard and Nyseke moves over to left Tackle.  The defensive ends and DT's will wonder what the hell is going on because most of them have studied film on the individual designated at that spot in front of them.  The versatility will throw them off.  Every great offense has to be innovative. 

 

In addition, versatility allows McDermott to create a stable of 8 O-lineman who can play all different positions.  Just like McDermott cycles D lineman in to keep them fresh, he will substitute in O linemen or move them around the line every 3rd down or two to not only maintain "fresh legs" but to keep the defensive line guessing who they will be matched up against. It's a chess match, and McDermott is Bobby Fisher.

 

Keep an eye out. This is the wave of the future and McDermott will be the innovator.

Bobby Fisher ?
love your enthusiasm my friend !!

56 minutes ago, BringBackFergy said:

I wish there were more open-minded members on this board.  Everyone laughed at Einstein and Newton when they came up with the apple dropping on the head thing. But where would we be if they didn’t think about it? 

 

Like you said,  every other position has been bastardized into RB/WR, S/CB, LB/DE. Yet some “traditionalists” insist the O line should not be mixed...as if they’re untouchable. Bull pucky!!!  The O linemen are some of the smartest dudes on the team. They know the playbook. They can learn a few new blocking schemes. After all, they make enough dough to justify a little movement. 

 

The element of surprise is underestimated. 

no one expects the Spanish Inquisition . No One !

[LSHMEAB]

16 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Some people just have no vision! 

 

How confused would they be if we swapped the OL for the DL? Think they would forfeit out of confusion? 

Now THAT could work. What you do is this; line up in a 4-3 with Star, Hughes, Murphy, and Oliver at OL. I guess you'd have to get a couple more guys on the line to avoid a penalty. The opposing defense will no doubt throw their offensive line onto the field as their HC goes into full panic mode. Now this approach will have the most success if we utilize it on obvious passing downs. The DL/their OL will back up in pass pro while the secondary waits for the ball to be snapped. You easily plow them over for a 30 yard gain. That's being conservative because it would almost certainly be a cakewalk into the endzone.

[BringBackFergy]

9 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

Bobby Fisher ?
love your enthusiasm my friend !!

no one expects the Spanish Inquisition . No One !

That was Sun Sue I believe. 

1 minute ago, LSHMEAB said:

Now THAT could work. What you do is this; line up in a 4-3 with Star, Hughes, Murphy, and Oliver at OL. I guess you'd have to get a couple more guys on the line to avoid a penalty. The opposing defense will no doubt throw their offensive line onto the field as their HC goes into full panic mode. Now this approach will have the most success if we utilize it on obvious passing downs. The DL/their OL will back up in pass pro while the secondary waits for the ball to be snapped. You easily plow them over for a 30 yard gain. That's being conservative because it would almost certainly be a cakewalk into the endzone.

Heyyyy!!! Start your own damn innovation thread!!

[3rdnlng]

9 hours ago, Figster said:

I kinda miss ieatcrayons...

He's still here masquerading as his former self.

[BringBackFergy]

“Ford played right tackle at Oklahoma. Beane said that's where he'll start off with the Bills, but that the team does "like his versatility to go inside.

"He's smart and physical and would be fine in there," the GM said.

While several scouting reports projected Ford as a guard at the NFL level, he said at the league's scouting combine that he prefers to play tackle.” Buffalo News

 

I’ll just leave this right here. 

 

11 hours ago, Bangarang said:

Terrible.

Free your mind. 

[Figster]

4 hours ago, 3rdnlng said:

He's still here masquerading as his former self.

True that

 

I think I liked ieatcrayons better though,    

 

 

[Augie]

19 minutes ago, Figster said:

True that

 

I think I liked ieatcrayons better though,    

 

 

Our dog when I was growing up used to poop a rainbow in our backyard. 

[BuffaloButt]

Jack of all trades, Master of none!!!

[JoPar_v2]

6 hours ago, BringBackFergy said:

“Ford played right tackle at Oklahoma. Beane said that's where he'll start off with the Bills, but that the team does "like his versatility to go inside.

"He's smart and physical and would be fine in there," the GM said.

While several scouting reports projected Ford as a guard at the NFL level, he said at the league's scouting combine that he prefers to play tackle.” Buffalo News

 

I’ll just leave this right here. 

 

Free your mind. 

 

I respect the dedication you have to work on your comedy routine, I really do. I just hope you sequester these attempts to the offseason. 

 

Keep going though - you certainly need the practice. Until about August. Then stop.

[Chandler#81]

1 hour ago, JoPar_v2 said:

 

I respect the dedication you have to work on your comedy routine, I really do. I just hope you sequester these attempts to the offseason. 

 

Keep going though - you certainly need the practice. Until about August. Then stop.

Oh, Ye of little knowledge. Open thy mind. Free thyself from the bonds of ignorance. Experience the raw beauty of uninhibited thought.

and Chill, Dude.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

4 hours ago, Augie said:

Our dog when I was growing up used to poop a rainbow in our backyard. 

 

 

...was his name "Butch From The Eastside"??....just askin'.............

[3rdnlng]

6 hours ago, Figster said:

True that

 

I think I liked ieatcrayons better though,    

 

 

Yes, he's dedicated to small ball and small ball only. At least in the past he would once in awhile hit one out of the park instead of this constant bunting. He's a shell of his former self.

[RobbRiddick]

There are no words for this so I will instead make one up : shumumbamba

[Rico]

21 hours ago, elroy16 said:

This is how I imagine the OP while writing this post.

 

 

 

 

 

This is how I imagine the OP after reading some of the replies;

[3rdnlng]

4 hours ago, Rico said:

This is how I imagine the OP after reading some of the replies;

More like a whole bunch  school of this species of fish:

 

[Just Joshin']

Title is misleading.  This has not been done.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

23 hours ago, BuffaloBill said:

 

 

Yes, I am sure all of the NFL coaching staffs regularly read here to see what they can do to improve their teams.

 

 

...seriously?....this is THE mecca for coaching guidance, EXPERT draft and FA signings, over qualified GM & HC candidates with resumes' in hand, all rendering the Encyclopedia Britannica useless as a plethora of pro ball info...wake up!.....

[BringBackFergy]

2 hours ago, Just Joshin' said:

Title is misleading.  This has not been done.

Just as the early settlers were pioneers who paved the way for progress, Coach McD will adopt a floating O line that works in shifts from position to position. As @Chandler#81 suggested, perhaps the center will stay put (for this season), but the remaining “big uglies” will swap positions every few plays. It hasn’t been done yet, but should/will. It’s the only part of the game that hasn’t adopted a “versatility” approach. This is our time to do it. 

[BuffaloBill]

1 hour ago, BringBackFergy said:

Just as the early settlers were pioneers who paved the way for progress, Coach McD will adopt a floating O line that works in shifts from position to position. As @Chandler#81 suggested, perhaps the center will stay put (for this season), but the remaining “big uglies” will swap positions every few plays. It hasn’t been done yet, but should/will. It’s the only part of the game that hasn’t adopted a “versatility” approach. This is our time to do it. 

 

@BringBackFergy we all know you are the real “big ugly” but we are not supposed to be personal about things here so we will keep this to ourselves.  Is this OK?

[ICanSleepWhenI'mDead]

23 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

What about a package that focuses on making Tyree Jackson a receiving eligible guard? Joe Webb NEVER did that!

 

1.  When you get done laughing because of your superior knowledge about the absurdity of using a "receiving eligible" player on the offensive line, educate yourself by reading this:

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/patriots-lineman-formation-2015-1

 

An excerpt for those who won't bother to click on the link:

 

". . . the player lined up in the traditional left-tackle position, Michael Hoomanawanui, was actually an eligible receiver. He is the guy who eventually caught the ball:

NBC

3. When the ball is snapped, Hoomanawanui just leaks down the field, and no one guards him because he appeared to be an offensive lineman:

NBC

4. Vereen, meanwhile, stands around because as an ineligible player, he is not allowed to run downfield:

NBC

The Patriots ran the play three times, and they got a first down every time.

 

In short, conventional wisdom is a lot more conventional than it is wise.  Free your mind.

Edited June 8, 2019 by ICanSleepWhenI'mDead

[TigerJ]

Generally, playing offensive line is not a physically demanding to endurance as is playing defensive line.  Platooning defensive linemen makes sense because of the greater energy demands.  On the offensive line the key to success is cohesiveness, linemen having a feel for when a linemate is going to pass of a block so you need to be ready for it, and vice versa - being comfortable about passing off a block to accomplish something else that needs to be done.  The more continuity you have, the better the coordination you have for that kind of switching off.

[Augie]

1 hour ago, ICanSleepWhenI'mDead said:

 

1.  When you get done laughing because of your superior knowledge about the absurdity of using a "receiving eligible" player on the offensive line, educate yourself by reading this:

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/patriots-lineman-formation-2015-1

 

An excerpt for those who won't bother to click on the link:

 

". . . the player lined up in the traditional left-tackle position, Michael Hoomanawanui, was actually an eligible receiver. He is the guy who eventually caught the ball:

NBC

3. When the ball is snapped, Hoomanawanui just leaks down the field, and no one guards him because he appeared to be an offensive lineman:

NBC

4. Vereen, meanwhile, stands around because as an ineligible player, he is not allowed to run downfield:

NBC

The Patriots ran the play three times, and they got a first down every time.

 

In short, conventional wisdom is a lot more conventional than it is wise.  Free your mind.

 

When Belichick retires, and Fergy takes over the Evil Empire, you guys will rue the many opportunities lost to make him the focal point of the Condiment Ceremony. 

[LSHMEAB]

1 hour ago, ICanSleepWhenI'mDead said:

 

1.  When you get done laughing because of your superior knowledge about the absurdity of using a "receiving eligible" player on the offensive line, educate yourself by reading this:

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/patriots-lineman-formation-2015-1

 

An excerpt for those who won't bother to click on the link:

I checked the link. Tackle eligible is CHILD'S PLAY. What I'm proposing is a tackle eligible GUARD. The only position along the OL not able to report as eligible is center, and that's because he snaps the ball. 

 

I'm gonna have to do more research, but what about having the guard snap the ball, thus allowing the center to report as eligible?

 

Once this plan is set in place, prepare to have your mind blown!

[ICanSleepWhenI'mDead]

<<The only position along the OL not able to report as eligible is center, and that's because he snaps the ball.>>

 

Not sure if the rule is the same in the NFL, but in high school and college, if the center snaps the ball from one end or the other of the 7 players required to be on the line of scrimmage at the start of a play, the "center" (in this instance called the "center" only because he snaps the ball, not because of where he lines up) can BOTH snap the ball and catch a forward pass on the same play if he wears a number other than 50-79.

 

Mind blown?

 

From https://wilson.engr.wisc.edu/rsfc/intro/johnson.shtml

 

"If you are a football coach or player (any level) and have a question about the rules, send your question to Curt Johnson at cmajohnson AT charter DOT net. Curt Johnson is a high school and college football official. Please specify NCAA (college) or NFHS (high school) rules in your question.

                                                                                       * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Question: If I put all my linemen on one side of the center so that he's now on the end of the line, is he an eligible receiver?

Answer: If he's wearing a number other than 50-79, then yes, he's eligible to catch a forward pass."

 

 

[BringBackFergy]

32 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

I checked the link. Tackle eligible is CHILD'S PLAY. What I'm proposing is a tackle eligible GUARD. The only position along the OL not able to report as eligible is center, and that's because he snaps the ball. 

 

I'm gonna have to do more research, but what about having the guard snap the ball, thus allowing the center to report as eligible?

 

Once this plan is set in place, prepare to have your mind blown!

I will say this one more time, and then, if you persist, I’ll hunt you down and report your butt: find your own damned versatility thread!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

?

21 minutes ago, ICanSleepWhenI'mDead said:

<<The only position along the OL not able to report as eligible is center, and that's because he snaps the ball.>>

 

Not sure if the rule is the same in the NFL, but in high school and college, if the center snaps the ball from one end or the other of the 7 players required to be on the line of scrimmage at the start of a play, the "center" (in this instance called the "center" only because he snaps the ball, not because of where he lines up) can BOTH snap the ball and catch a forward pass on the same play if he wears a number other than 50-79.

 

Mind blown?

 

From https://wilson.engr.wisc.edu/rsfc/intro/johnson.shtml

 

"If you are a football coach or player (any level) and have a question about the rules, send your question to Curt Johnson at cmajohnson AT charter DOT net. Curt Johnson is a high school and college football official. Please specify NCAA (college) or NFHS (high school) rules in your question.

                                                                                       * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Question: If I put all my linemen on one side of the center so that he's now on the end of the line, is he an eligible receiver?

Answer: If he's wearing a number other than 50-79, then yes, he's eligible to catch a forward pass."

 

 

You are always on my level. I thank you.  I wish more of these guys dug deep and understood how to position yourself ahead of the curve.  

[Stallions]

On 6/7/2019 at 10:24 AM, BringBackFergy said:

I know you are probably thinking there's a link to a profound article in this post, but NO. I came up with his idea all on my own. Watch how the football experts like ESPN, ProFootball Talk and Yahoo will pick up on this and run with it.  You guys just remember that old Fergy was the first to recognize the clear goal of our head coach: He is building an 5  cylinder engine on the O Line with pistons firing from different positions at all different times.

 

Here's what I mean:

 

What is McDermott's #1 goal in finding a suitable Offensive lineman??  ANSWER: Versatility

 

We have tackles that have played guard. We have guards that have played center. We have guards who played tackle. Shoot, we even had a TE who played tackle.  The point is, all through OTA's and minicamp, we have seen a variety of players playing at different spots.  Where else do we see this? On the defensive line of course.  DT's move to outside, DT's drop back, DE's move inside, DE/Linebackers move inside, etc.  So why not incorporate the movement and versatility of Offensive linemen in the same manner?

 

For example:  On 1st and 10, Morse lines up at center, Dawkins at Left Tackle, Feliciano at left Guard, Ford at right Guard and Nyseke at right Tackle. We gain 4 yards on a run play.  On 2nd and 6, we break huddle and Feliciano take the Center position, Dawkins moves to right Guard (his position for years) , Ford moves to right Tackle, Morse takes left Guard and Nyseke moves over to left Tackle.  The defensive ends and DT's will wonder what the hell is going on because most of them have studied film on the individual designated at that spot in front of them.  The versatility will throw them off.  Every great offense has to be innovative. 

 

In addition, versatility allows McDermott to create a stable of 8 O-lineman who can play all different positions.  Just like McDermott cycles D lineman in to keep them fresh, he will substitute in O linemen or move them around the line every 3rd down or two to not only maintain "fresh legs" but to keep the defensive line guessing who they will be matched up against. It's a chess match, and McDermott is Bobby Fisher.

 

Keep an eye out. This is the wave of the future and McDermott will be the innovator.

 

I think it means the OL coach should be running the OL and that maybe they really don't have 5 excellent players up-front - maybe????????????????????

[Cripple Creek]

12 hours ago, Stallions said:

 

I think it means the OL coach should be running the OL and that maybe they really don't have 5 excellent players up-front - maybe????????????????????

That's a glass is half empty assumption though maybe???????????????????????

 

What we have here is a group of fellows who all do certain things well.  The OP is thinking that McD will shuttle players in and out of the game depending on circumstance.  He'll have the element of surprise and also be putting his players in the best possible position to succeed.  I was initially against this way of thinking, but I've come around.

 

Pour some juice into your glass and become a believer. 

[BringBackFergy]

I hate to say "I told ya so"....but "I told ya so".  This article was written by Chris Brown who is a professional with his ear to the inner workings of the team.   He knows what the team is doing.  My only question is "Where did he (and the coaches) get the idea for offensive line by committee??? Hmmmm (the last two sentences in bold look awfully familiar).  You can thank me later.

 

 

https://www.buffalobills.com/news/camp-countdown-no-13-what-should-be-expected-from-buffalo-s-offensive-line

 

More versatility
Much has been made of the position flexibility of many of the new additions to Buffalo’s offensive line. Through the course of the spring veteran additions like Jon Feliciano and Spencer Long manned all three interior line positions. Quinton Spain flipped from one guard to the other. Ty Nsekhe and LaAdrian Waddle switched sides routinely at the tackle position.

Even younger players like Ike Boettger and Jeremiah Sirles tried their hand at center in addition to guard and tackle respectively.

That versatility comes in handy when injury strikes.

“Spence and I have both played different positions and when you have guys like that you don’t miss a beat because it’s nothing for me to play the left or right side or go to center and I know Spence feels the same way,” said Feliciano, who was part of an Oakland offensive line that surrendered the fewest sacks in the league in 2017 despite being forced to change roles due to injury.

Perhaps even more important are the strengths of Buffalo’s offensive linemen vary as well. If offensive coordinator Brian Daboll wants to be a road-grading team in the run game he has drive blockers like Feliciano, Spain, Nsekhe and Cody Ford. If he wants a more mobile team that can attack the flanks he has more athletic options in Long, Morse and Wyatt Teller.

So as the offensive staff determines who their best five are, they also have the luxury of matching it with an offensive identity.

 

 

 

Edited July 24, 2019 by BringBackFergy

[Simon Says]

On 6/7/2019 at 10:24 AM, BringBackFergy said:

I know you are probably thinking there's a link to a profound article in this post, but NO. I came up with his idea all on my own. Watch how the football experts like ESPN, ProFootball Talk and Yahoo will pick up on this and run with it.  You guys just remember that old Fergy was the first to recognize the clear goal of our head coach: He is building an 5  cylinder engine on the O Line with pistons firing from different positions at all different times.

 

Here's what I mean:

 

What is McDermott's #1 goal in finding a suitable Offensive lineman??  ANSWER: Versatility

 

We have tackles that have played guard. We have guards that have played center. We have guards who played tackle. Shoot, we even had a TE who played tackle.  The point is, all through OTA's and minicamp, we have seen a variety of players playing at different spots.  Where else do we see this? On the defensive line of course.  DT's move to outside, DT's drop back, DE's move inside, DE/Linebackers move inside, etc.  So why not incorporate the movement and versatility of Offensive linemen in the same manner?

 

For example:  On 1st and 10, Morse lines up at center, Dawkins at Left Tackle, Feliciano at left Guard, Ford at right Guard and Nyseke at right Tackle. We gain 4 yards on a run play.  On 2nd and 6, we break huddle and Feliciano take the Center position, Dawkins moves to right Guard (his position for years) , Ford moves to right Tackle, Morse takes left Guard and Nyseke moves over to left Tackle.  The defensive ends and DT's will wonder what the hell is going on because most of them have studied film on the individual designated at that spot in front of them.  The versatility will throw them off.  Every great offense has to be innovative. 

 

In addition, versatility allows McDermott to create a stable of 8 O-lineman who can play all different positions.  Just like McDermott cycles D lineman in to keep them fresh, he will substitute in O linemen or move them around the line every 3rd down or two to not only maintain "fresh legs" but to keep the defensive line guessing who they will be matched up against. It's a chess match, and McDermott is Bobby Fisher.

 

Keep an eye out. This is the wave of the future and McDermott will be the innovator.

That's crazy talk. They aren't going to move OL from play to play,its disruptive to  continuity. The biggest value of OL versatility is that you might be able to keep fewer (8?)on the 53.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

I would rather he teach them how to hold and not get caught like the Patriots O-Line.

[BringBackFergy]

18 minutes ago, Georgie said:

That's crazy talk. They aren't going to move OL from play to play,its disruptive to  continuity. The biggest value of OL versatility is that you might be able to keep fewer (8?)on the 53.

See link directly above. It seems our own Feliciano, Chris Brown and McDermott must be crazy then. Don’t shoot the messenger. 

[Bob in STL]

All of that versatility on the OL is really good if we have injuries.  It is not a good idea to rotate 8 lineman just to be innovative. Cohesion and consistency is more important than anything else when considering OL play.  Timing is critical.  Knowing what your line-mate will do in a given situation do is critical.  

 

Linemen generally do not carry or receive the ball so they are not weapons.  I think the OP’s idea is not a good one. 

[kota]

How is this new?

[Augie]

I was at a game in Jacksonville about 10 years ago. The hottest day of my life. Miserable! Bills had to keep rotating their OLinemen so they could be effective and didn’t, you know.....DIE! Offensive line “swapability” was in deep demand THAT day. Even Marcus Stroud, who had just joined us from Jax, said it was the hottest game of his life. At $250 a ticket it was pretty disappointing to retreat to AC and watch on little monitors in the concession area.