John Warrow’s High Praise For Beane & McDermott Regime

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

Come on.  There was good discourse back and forth - would hate to see it reduced to "you're not a real fan if you're critical of the product."

 

It was pretty much just JW evading detail for things that he said.

 

That's his prerogative but why even go the opinion route if you don't want to expand on it?

 

Just throw it on the pile with the other "they are good and that's all I really gotta' say about that" takes.

[Bill from NYC]

2 hours ago, RochesterLifer said:

 

Honestly Coach, I haven't found this to be "good discourse" at all. While JW is sharing his (quality) thoughts and information, BADOLBILZ has petulantly and pointlessly argued with every post, as if taking on a sportswriter is providing 15 minutes of fame. I look forward to what JW has to share and have had to tolerate BADOLBILZ' (I want ice cream!!!!!!) grade school level responses to read it.

Serious question.....are you going to provide us with some pertinent comments or are you here to critique a poster who has been here for decades, and may have forgotten more than you will ever know about football. I suggest that you read his posts, evaluate them, and perhaps learn something, or at the very least, consider a point of view that doesn't necessarily coincide with yours.

If you want to read nothing but rah-rah type posts, you might consider signing onto some of these "grade school" sites about which you speak instead of coming here with the sole intent of insulting our members.

[Malazan]

20 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

It was pretty much just JW evading detail for things that he said.

 

That's his prerogative but why even go the opinion route if you don't want to expand on it?

 

Just throw it on the pile with the other "they are good and that's all I really gotta' say about that" takes.

 

You're the king of no details..just spewing out crap because you need attention.

Edited May 31, 2019 by jeremy2020

[Royale with Cheese]

Are we really offended?

[ddaryl]

I just cannot believe after what we witnessed for the 17 years before Beane and McDermott that anyone would or even could think we are trending the wrong way.

 

Even if it takes 5 more years we will never be basement dwellers with these 2 at the helm and will always be trending upwards, and wil be able to make moves as needed. This much I feel extremely confident about

[RochesterLifer]

38 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Serious question.....are you going to provide us with some pertinent comments or are you here to critique a poster who has been here for decades, and may have forgotten more than you will ever know about football. I suggest that you read his posts, evaluate them, and perhaps learn something, or at the very least, consider a point of view that doesn't necessarily coincide with yours.

If you want to read nothing but rah-rah type posts, you might consider signing onto some of these "grade school" sites about which you speak instead of coming here with the sole intent of insulting our members.

 

I don't know Bill, your "Serious question" quickly devolves into a defensive rant. Despite that, I'll give a brief, somewhat serious answer:

- I did not critique a poster, merely his argumentative responses in this discussion. 

- I also did not critique this site (which I very much enjoy), merely the argumentative responses in this discussion

- You are correct, I rarely post. When I do, it is usually supportive of the conversation at hand. That's just my personality.

- Finally, I am sorry to read that BADOLBILZ may have forgotten a lot of football. I hope he gets his memory back.

Does being from NYC, Bill, contribute to your effervescent style of communications?

 

[Gugny]

It is a shame, the direction this thread has headed.

[Royale with Cheese]

5 minutes ago, Gugny said:

It is a shame, the direction this thread has headed.

 

It's better now.

 

[Bill from NYC]

39 minutes ago, RochesterLifer said:

 

I don't know Bill, your "Serious question" quickly devolves into a defensive rant. Despite that, I'll give a brief, somewhat serious answer:

- I did not critique a poster, merely his argumentative responses in this discussion. 

- I also did not critique this site (which I very much enjoy), merely the argumentative responses in this discussion

- You are correct, I rarely post. When I do, it is usually supportive of the conversation at hand. That's just my personality.

- Finally, I am sorry to read that BADOLBILZ may have forgotten a lot of football. I hope he gets his memory back.

Does being from NYC, Bill, contribute to your effervescent style of communications?

 

LOL it might.

That said, I do repeat my suggestion that by looking over his posts, the possibility that you will learn something does exist.

Be well!!!

[John from Riverside]

3 hours ago, Commsvet11 said:

 

Here is the issue, there are people like BADOLBILZ, who share the same idea about the current FO, but here is the problem, in the off-season you get crucified for it even if you back it with facts .....and during the regular season you get told “you just hoping to be right more than the Bills team/player succeeding” even though during the whole year one presented this view and crucified for it and told “you are not a Bills” or “Go root for another team”. 

 

 

Negative.....Bado gets his grief because of the way he responds to those who have a different viewpoint.   It really is as simple as that.

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

It was pretty much just JW evading detail for things that he said.

 

That's his prerogative but why even go the opinion route if you don't want to expand on it?

 

Just throw it on the pile with the other "they are good and that's all I really gotta' say about that" takes.

I am going to say it does NOT go on that pile because he is in a position to know what is going on behind the scenes which you do not.

 

Bado has great takes....he knows his football...he is also is very abrasive....period

[RochesterLifer]

11 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

LOL it might.

That said, I do repeat my suggestion that by looking over his posts, the possibility that you will learn something does exist.

Be well!!!

 

Ha, thanks. Here's a phrase I'll bet we agree on - Go Bills!   Have a great weekend!

[Bill from NYC]

2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I am going to say it does NOT go on that pile because he is in a position to know what is going on behind the scenes which you do not.

 

Bado has great takes....he knows his football...he is also is very abrasive....period

John, we have known each other for years. We can all be a bit abrasive, no?

 

My take is that this site is great because of the differing views, not in spite of them.

[Nihilarian]

I love what Beane has done in his time here!  While both Beane and McD have made mistakes in certain players and some hires for assistants they have been fairly quick to make changes. Beane brought in a big, tall WR  that the team has needed in forever and it just so happened that the player just didn't want to do his job. Charles Clay was somewhat in that mold. McD replaced OC Rick Dennison, WR coach Terry Robskie, ST coach Danny Crossman, Run game coordinator/ O line coach Juan Castillo.  When these men failed to do a good job they were replaced! 

 

Beane in free agency added some experienced tough veteran players and in the draft he went to BPA and filled a need at the same time. In the 2018 draft QB Josh Allen was a need and BPA, Tremaine Edmunds was a need and BPA. In the 2019 DT Ed Oliver was a need and BPA, Cody Ford was a need and BPA. 

 

Not to mention some of the gold the man has found in free agent aside from the free agency period in CB Levi Wallace and WR Robert Foster who could both be tops at their positions this season. 

 

Gotta love the wheeling and dealing to move around in the draft to get the players they want...and without giving up the farm or two first rounders to do it. Bills fans should be as ecstatic as I am because this looks like Bill Polian all over again. 

[John from Riverside]

Just now, Bill from NYC said:

John, we have known each other for years. We can all be a bit abrasive, no?

 

My take is that this site is great because of the differing views, not in spite of them.

Bill...I agree with all of that.  However there is a difference between having a different take and the talking down to ppl that Bado does......

 

I myself have been guilty of it....I have apologized for it and moved on trying to treat ppl with respect here regardless of their opinion....you will NEVER hear Bado apologize for his treatment of others here.

[Coach Tuesday]

11 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

you will NEVER hear Bado apologize for his treatment of others here.

 

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

JW I apologize if I offended you with my pretty reasonable/debatable responses.

 

 

[John from Riverside]

Just now, Coach Tuesday said:

 

 

Umn...that is not a apology

[Coach Tuesday]

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

Umn...that is not a apology

 

I mean maybe it's not a GREAT apology but...

[Dr. Who]

Civility on this site is still considerably better than other message boards I have frequented over the years. The old BBMB was capricious and often filled with rancorous exchanges. JW seems to me to be a straight shooter. I don't believe he is influenced by Beane. It may just be that the current regime is largely competent, though they make mistakes like everyone else. Personally, I value his insight and believe he brings information we would not otherwise have. Badolbilz is also often insightful, though almost always negative and astringent. Since I tend to be optimistic, I appreciate the counterbalance. It makes me scrutinize my own positions, though I don't often change them

[John from Riverside]

2 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

I mean maybe it's not a GREAT apology but...

Its a covered dig at JW.......its a non apology apology

 

I mean....JW is a big boy and doesnt need me defending him.....I am just saying that you dont have to be an ass just because you have football knowledge which Bado obviously does

 

I know lots of smart football poster's that DONT have to be an ass to get their opinion across

1 minute ago, Dr. Who said:

Civility on this site is still considerably better than other message boards I have frequented over the years. The old BBMB was capricious and often filled with rancorous exchanges. JW seems to me to be a straight shooter. I don't believe he is influenced by Beane. It may just be that the current regime is largely competent, though they make mistakes like everyone else. Personally, I value his insight and believe he brings information we would not otherwise have. Badolbilz is also often insightful, though almost always negative and astringent. Since I tend to be optimistic, I appreciate the counterbalance. It makes me scrutinize my own positions, though I don't often change them

This site used to be a LOT worse.....I feel like the mods have done a pretty good job cleaning it up in that regard.  Kudos to them.

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Are we really offended?

 

 

As soon as someone jumps to the "you aren't a real fan" button you can rest assured they are offended.

[Royale with Cheese]

3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

As soon as someone jumps to the "you aren't a real fan" button you can rest assured they are offended.

 

Baldo...even though we disagree a lot.  I know you’re a real fan.  

[Augie]

33 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

I mean maybe it's not a GREAT apology but...

 

It’s what you might call.....the opposite of an apology, but I guess we gotta go with what we got to work with!    ?

 

I’m staying out of this, but that was funny. 

[Augie]

52 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

I love what Beane has done in his time here!  While both Beane and McD have made mistakes in certain players and some hires for assistants they have been fairly quick to make changes. Beane brought in a big, tall WR  that the team has needed in forever and it just so happened that the player just didn't want to do his job. Charles Clay was somewhat in that mold. McD replaced OC Rick Dennison, WR coach Terry Robskie, ST coach Danny Crossman, Run game coordinator/ O line coach Juan Castillo.  When these men failed to do a good job they were replaced! 

 

Beane in free agency added some experienced tough veteran players and in the draft he went to BPA and filled a need at the same time. In the 2018 draft QB Josh Allen was a need and BPA, Tremaine Edmunds was a need and BPA. In the 2019 DT Ed Oliver was a need and BPA, Cody Ford was a need and BPA. 

 

Not to mention some of the gold the man has found in free agent aside from the free agency period in CB Levi Wallace and WR Robert Foster who could both be tops at their positions this season. 

 

Gotta love the wheeling and dealing to move around in the draft to get the players they want...and without giving up the farm or two first rounders to do it. Bills fans should be as ecstatic as I am because this looks like Bill Polian all over again. 

 

Every team is going to make mistakes. Recognizing them quickly and moving on is the best thing you can do. In my opinion, they have done a good job of that, and our direction is very encouraging. It may not be good enough, or fast enough for some. That’s fine. This is a great place to come and have some back and forth like adults. 

[BADOLBILZ]

9 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

Civility on this site is still considerably better than other message boards I have frequented over the years. The old BBMB was capricious and often filled with rancorous exchanges. JW seems to me to be a straight shooter. I don't believe he is influenced by Beane. It may just be that the current regime is largely competent, though they make mistakes like everyone else. Personally, I value his insight and believe he brings information we would not otherwise have. Badolbilz is also often insightful, though almost always negative and astringent. Since I tend to be optimistic, I appreciate the counterbalance. It makes me scrutinize my own positions, though I don't often change them

 

 

I'm not sure anyone who repeats that the team couldn't "afford" a player that they simply "chose" not to pursue more aggressively or sign is being a straight shooter.

 

And saying something like Incognito wasn't pressured to take a pay cut.............eh.........I mean in what world, right?

 

That's the problem in this thread............he wasn't shooting straight he was advancing excuses with irrational answers...........I guess for his sources?

 

It's OK to admit that front offices make a lot of mistakes...............and maybe what ultimately scares fans into buying such irrational takes is the fear that there isn't an entirely coherent plan.

 

For some reason A LOT of people think that all that matters is that there is this master plan in place that is being deftly executed.............and when you aren't winning that requires the making of A LOT of excuses.    I don't think there is a 3 year plan in the NFL that actually goes even close to the original design.    There is a name for plans that go smoothly.........ONE YEAR plans.  

 

What we have here in McBeane are a couple first timers who have been preparing for these jobs for a long time but have spent as much time BUYING time and making a myriad of questionable moves as they have advancing the on-field product.    It's not been a grand success to this point and while the LA teams that had less talent/success than Buffalo at the time of McD's hiring have risen to SB contender status the McBeane method has us at the exact same record that Rex did in his two years.

 

My point in it all is that IT'S OK to be skeptical in the absence of success.    It is.    They don't deserve the benefit of having a pile of excuses advanced for them.

[Coach Tuesday]

3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

For some reason A LOT of people think that all that matters is that there is this master plan in place that is being deftly executed

 

This is a phenomenon which transcends football - people see chaos and destruction all around them and feel an innate need to ascribe it to the omniscient workings of an unseen force of good (or evil, depending).  It's a basic human tendency.  It happens with the Bills, it happens in certain theological hallways, it happens with conspiracy theories.  There exists a deep human need to ascribe meaning and a plan to something that, by almost any measure, lacks the same.

[BADOLBILZ]

16 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

This is a phenomenon which transcends football - people see chaos and destruction all around them and feel an innate need to ascribe it to the omniscient workings of an unseen force of good (or evil, depending).  It's a basic human tendency.  It happens with the Bills, it happens in certain theological hallways, it happens with conspiracy theories.  There exists a deep human need to ascribe meaning and a plan to something that, by almost any measure, lacks the same.

 

You gotta' Billieve!:

 

2 hours ago, ddaryl said:

Even if it takes 5 more years we will never be basement dwellers with these 2 at the helm and will always be trending upwards, and wil be able to make moves as needed. This much I feel extremely confident about

[NoHuddleKelly12]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

Where does this even come from?

Because we are well acquainted with what trending in the wrong direction looks like, no? I'd say Bills fans have become somewhat expert in divining through front office/coachspeak BS, which is part of why Beane owning up to mistakes he's made along the way (e.g., the QB situation last year) is so refreshing. How can you take issue with the moves they've been making during this offseason to get significant roster upgrades across the board? 

[Dr. Who]

JW is not a reliable voice of optimism for everything that happens at OBD. He's been critical over the years. The suggestion that he isn't making a judgment based on a number of sources and his own critical evaluative powers is unconvincing to me. In my view, JW is a solid journalist who works to avoid either optimistic or pessimistic bias. That he happens to have a positive take just now is rubbing folks with a dark template wrong. That's fine, but I don't think it rightly impugns JW who is one of the few writers in his field I trust for objective analysis.

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

I think the issue with JWs original post was he essentially presented moves made by McBeane as if there was absolutely no other way to do 

 

That's not true.  What appears in the first few posts in this thread is praise for what they did.  Nowhere does it say that they did the only thing possible.  

 

The fact that someone may think there was another way to go and a better way to go does not have to be presented in what he chooses to write.  What JW said is that they've done a good job, and I think that's true.  Maybe they could have done it better, but that doesn't change the fact that they've done a good job.  

[Nihilarian]

47 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

What we have here in McBeane are a couple first timers who have been preparing for these jobs for a long time but have spent as much time BUYING time and making a myriad of questionable moves as they have advancing the on-field product.    It's not been a grand success to this point and while the LA teams that had less talent/success than Buffalo at the time of McD's hiring have risen to SB contender status the McBeane method has us at the exact same record that Rex did in his two years.

 

My point in it all is that IT'S OK to be skeptical in the absence of success.    It is.    They don't deserve the benefit of having a pile of excuses advanced for them.

Yes, both McD and Beane are a first time HC, GM. Now look back over the history of this franchise to see how many first time HC's, GM's have great success in their first two seasons.

 

In looking back over the last two decades of failure of the Buffalo Bills all I see are inept coaches, GMs, pseudo GM's and a bad owner. All making stupid coaching hires, wrong player moves and bad choices by not putting a competitive team on the field. 

 

In taking over the mess that Rex Ryan, Doug Whaley had left, McD managed to get to 9-7 in his first season. Which as enough to get the team over the 17 year playoff drought that has plagued this franchise. PLAYOFFS!! BTW, Rex went 8-8, 7-9 while ruining one of the best defensive lines in the league.

 

What we have seen is the 2018 Buffalo Bills fielded the best defensive secondary in the league! While the overall end result was a bad 6-10 year it was mainly because the team was starting a rookie QB, a bad O line, lousy receiver corps. Peyton Manning's first year 3-13. Troy Aikman's first year 1-15 and the reason I bring up these two QB's is because those men had about the same crappy surrounding casts as QB Josh Allen did last year. 

 

I've been very skeptical of just about every coaching, GM hire this franchise has made since 2000. For the first time since John Butler this team finally has a real GM in Brandon Beane that looks to know what he is doing.

 

Not a GM that lost a power struggle to the HC (Bill Cowher) and was fired by Pittsburgh in Tom Donahoe. So the owner hires him and promotes him to team president This man hires two first time HC's that fail so the owner fires him. Then this owner hires his old friend in an ex HC of the Bills to be the new GM... who is clueless on how to be an NFL GM. Then when he retires, this old owner makes the marketing man his new GM, but doesn't name him so he has no accountability  This pseudo GM later hires a retired 70 year old ex-scout to be the new GM!  (Buddy Nix–who “resigned” and/or was strongly encouraged to golf instead of ***** up NFL drafts.) When this GM steps down he is replaced by another ex-scout whose claim to fame was porn emails sent throughout the team 

 

All I know is for the first time in a very, very long while I'm very excited by what we have seen the Buffalo Bills do the last two seasons! Because for the first time since 1986 the team might have finally found their franchise QB! The Dolphins are still looking for their Dan Marino. The NY Jets might have found their Broadway Joe and those Jets went 4-12 in 2018. 

 

While It is okay to be skeptical of a team that went 6-10 and didn't rebuild the line correctly the first time or find the right receivers on the first attempts. And while I'm somewhat still skeptical that the Bills FO didn't do enough to build up the O line or receiver corps for the 2019 season. It's still only Beane's second year as an NFL GM. Like I mentioned in an earlier post I think he is on par with what Bill Polian did in his first two years.  The 2019 Bills should be 9-7, 10-6. Beane didn't inherit a Bruce Smith or Andre Reed either. JMHO

 

 

[LSHMEAB]

3 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

John, we have known each other for years. We can all be a bit abrasive, no?

 

My take is that this site is great because of the differing views, not in spite of them.

Imagine a board where the only real debate was which superlative most accurately encapsulated the state of the franchise. No thanks.

 

It's like anything really; the more information you consume from a broad range of viewpoints, the more you'll understand. Not a fan of safe spaces.

[BADOLBILZ]

31 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

JW is not a reliable voice of optimism for everything that happens at OBD. He's been critical over the years. The suggestion that he isn't making a judgment based on a number of sources and his own critical evaluative powers is unconvincing to me. In my view, JW is a solid journalist who works to avoid either optimistic or pessimistic bias. That he happens to have a positive take just now is rubbing folks with a dark template wrong. That's fine, but I don't think it rightly impugns JW who is one of the few writers in his field I trust for objective analysis.

 

Oh ok I thought I made some points that were reasonable but I guess not.

 

In other indisputable factoid news Bills fans don't subscribe to TBN because they can't "afford" it.

 

 

[Dr. Who]

8 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Oh ok I thought I made some points that were reasonable but I guess not.

 

In other indisputable factoid news Bills fans don't subscribe to TBN because they can't "afford" it.

 

 

I don't dispute that one can build a plausible narrative based on your premises and particular interpretations. I just don't feel compelled to accept them and in particular I am skeptical that JW is selling anybody's story other than his own.

[BADOLBILZ]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

I don't dispute that one can build a plausible narrative based on your premises and particular interpretations. I just don't feel compelled to accept them and in particular I am skeptical that JW is selling anybody's story other than his own.

 

 

Do you think he could be selectively ignoring certain story inconsistencies because he like's his sources or how they treat him as opposed to their predecessors?

 

It's human nature.

 

I believe JW has taken issue with the notion that Bills fans can't "afford" TBN subs before.    It was him or someone else in the media that was here(so probably him).

 

I'm pretty protective of Bills fans versus non-fans like John so I am standing by the reason for non-subs primarily being that darn insurmountable cost.

 

 

 

 

[Dr. Who]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Do you think he could be selectively ignoring certain story inconsistencies because he like's his sources or how they treat him as opposed to their predecessors?

 

It's human nature.

 

I believe JW has taken issue with the notion that Bills fans can't "afford" TBN subs before.    It was him or someone else in the media that was here(so probably him).

 

I'm pretty protective of Bills fans versus non-fans like John so I am standing by the reason for non-subs primarily being that darn insurmountable cost.

 

 

 

 

Okay, I didn't get the allusive nature of that comment. I live in Atlanta and don't really think about TBN. I get most of my Bills' info here.

[LSHMEAB]

24 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Do you think he could be selectively ignoring certain story inconsistencies because he like's his sources or how they treat him as opposed to their predecessors?

 

It's human nature.

 

I believe JW has taken issue with the notion that Bills fans can't "afford" TBN subs before.    It was him or someone else in the media that was here(so probably him).

 

I'm pretty protective of Bills fans versus non-fans like John so I am standing by the reason for non-subs primarily being that darn insurmountable cost.

 

 

 

 

Close acquaintance who covers the Vegas Golden Knights and now the Raiders. He has no choice but to sugercoat; the nature of the beast circa 2019.

 

JW bring a lot of info and I appreciate his work. Having said that, there is pressure on the folks who cover these teams to put a positive spin on most everything. 

 

I will say this in JW's defense; the person I'm referencing would never visit a message board and passionately defend his positions. He doesn't fully believe what he writes. So while I don't agree with all of Wawrow's takes, I believe that he believes them to be true. I don't think a hack would be so intransigent. 

Edited May 31, 2019 by LSHMEAB

[Bill from NYC]

4 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Bill...I agree with all of that.  However there is a difference between having a different take and the talking down to ppl that Bado does......

 

I myself have been guilty of it....I have apologized for it and moved on trying to treat ppl with respect here regardless of their opinion....you will NEVER hear Bado apologize for his treatment of others here.

Like I said Brother, we all have our idiosyncrasies. Badol is your friend. You two have posted back and forth for 20 years. He speaks highly of you. Its all good!

[Gugny]

13 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Like I said Brother, we all have our idiosyncrasies. Badol is your friend. You two have posted back and forth for 20 years. He speaks highly of you. Its all good!

 

I have to agree.  It's not like he challenged him to a jousting match.

[Cripple Creek]

8 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Pretty sure BADOL is just giving his opinion much like JW is.

 

 

Why would we expect you to recognize petulance and pointless arguments?