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John Warrow’s High Praise For Beane & McDermott Regime

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On 4/27/2019 at 4:32 AM, dollars 2 donuts said:

 

 i can't imagine what this team would be like under somebody else.

 

Yes you can, we have had like 17 years of it. Very Jeff Fisher like

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51 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

That point is a little overstated, I think. "Mortgaging the future" is mostly in the minds of the fans.

 

The dirty little secret to the NFL is that the future never really arrives anymore.  Between FA and trades, it only takes a year or two to bounce back, even after trading a bunch of picks.

 

Is it overstated?

Let's review.

The Bills made the foolish mistake of drafting EJ Manuel, which set the franchise back for two years wasting time waiting for him to develop.

If that wasn't bad enough, the Bills then doubled down on their mistake the following year by giving up a first-round draft pick to select Sammy Watkins to prop up a quarterback who wasn't going to succeed, thus mortgaging yet another year, and possibly two, of building the team.

 

Add in a few more ill-conceived contracts and a bad coaching hire in Rex, and It's taken six years to finally get out of that hole.

 

It's a dirty little secret only if you don't compound one mistake with another and another.

 

And that's what happened.

 

jw

 

 

10 minutes ago, sullim4 said:

 

The decision to keep Peterman over McCarron was a huge blunder on both their parts.  I cannot possibly believe that McCarron's performance would have been worse than Peterman's.

 

Here's a nugget: What if AJ wanted out because he was unhappy he got hurt and wasn't awarded the starting job.

The Bills weren't going to win the opener with either three of the quarterbacks.

The only mistake made, which Beane has fessed up to, is he should've brought in Anderson the minute he traded McCarron.

Lesson learned.

 

Move on.

 

jw

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5 minutes ago, john wawrow said:

 

Here's a nugget: What if AJ wanted out because he was unhappy he got hurt and wasn't awarded the starting job.

The Bills weren't going to win the opener with either three of the quarterbacks.

The only mistake made, which Beane has fessed up to, is he should've brought in Anderson the minute he traded McCarron.

Lesson learned.

 

Move on.

 

jw

 

That is very interesting, thanks for the insight.  I agree - if McCarron wanted out, you had to get rid of him.  But neglecting to replace him was indeed short-sighted.

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Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don't know?  They tried.  They drafted some good players.  They signed a big pack of Middle Class FA OLmen so at least there will be competition.
 

I would have liked to see us sign another quality OLman to go with Morse, a true #1 WR, and a quality edge rusher, but those guys are scarce and hard to sign.  Until Josh Allen proves himself as a passing QB, top FA WR aren't going to want to sign here.

 

<snip>

I believe Beane is building his core via the draft. From what I've seen WR and edge rusher will probably be a priority in next year's draft . We did get a Ford this year on the OL and may add another OL next year. A lot of 1 year deals in free agency this year.

Edited by Uncle Joe

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15 minutes ago, sullim4 said:

 

The decision to keep Peterman over McCarron was a huge blunder on both their parts.  I cannot possibly believe that McCarron's performance would have been worse than Peterman's.

Look.....qb mistakes were made....they should have done a better job finding a vet to go along with the rookie they were going to draft

 

but

 

It would not made one bit of difference.....because they also had to replace 2 starting linemen and they were not able to do that AND everything has been pointing to THIS offseason when were going to have all that cap space to fill the positions with the correct type of players.....

 

Dont judge them on what they did last year......in a rebiulding year nobody is gonna be happen with the final win loss team final standing.....judge them on what they do THIS year when they were not hamstrung by dead cap.

 

 

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Just now, john wawrow said:

 

Is it overstated?

Let's review.

The Bills made the foolish mistake of drafting EJ Manuel, which set the franchise back for two years wasting time waiting for him to develop.

If that wasn't bad enough, the Bills then doubled down on their mistake the following year by giving up a first-round draft pick to select Sammy Watkins to prop up a quarterback who wasn't going to succeed, thus mortgaging yet another year, and possibly two, of building the team.

 

Add in a few more ill-conceived contracts and a bad coaching hire in Rex, and It's taken six years to finally get out of that hole.

 

It's a dirty little secret only if you don't compound one mistake with another and another.

 

And that's what happened.

 

jw

 

 

Let's.

 

"The Bills made the foolish mistake of drafting EJ Manuel, which set the franchise back for two years wasting time waiting for him to develop."


This differs from Allen, disregarding the prospect quality, how?

This is what you said:

 

"That said, how the #Bills went about obtaining Allen didn't leave them vulnernable in terms of future draft picks.
The trades were limited to last year. ...

 

As a result, if Allen doesn't pan out -- and there's no indication right now that he won't -- the Bills haven't mortgaged their future in being solely tied to his future. ..."

 

We didn't obtain EJ by leaving us vulnerable in terms of future picks, did we?

 

"which set the franchise back for two years wasting time waiting for him to develop."

 

Seeing as Allen hasn't even played a second season yet, how can we say we aren't "wasting two years waiting for him to develop?"  I don't think we are, but that sounds a lot like counting your chickens before they hatched to me.

 

"If that wasn't bad enough, the Bills then doubled down on their mistake the following year by giving up a first-round draft pick to select Sammy Watkins to prop up a quarterback who wasn't going to succeed, thus mortgaging yet another year, and possibly two, of building the team."

 

What a wonderfully archaic notion, and a symptom of NFL tradition.  Losing a first round pick means you're out of the QB game, always and forever I guess.  The Bills missed out on such wonderful available QBs with #19 of the 2015 draft like Garrett Grayson, Bryce Petty, and Brett Hundley.  Surely drafting those guys with a #1 would have saved us.

 

Or maybe, it's your opinion that the 2014 Bills would have gone 1-15 without Sammy Watkins and we could have grabbed Mariota or Winston.  Those guys have both proven to be the answer at QB, after all.  Those franchises aren't "wasting time" on those two young guys, unsure of whether to walk away or not.  

 

"Add in a few more ill-conceived contracts and a bad coaching hire in Rex, and It's taken six years to finally get out of that hole."

 

Neither of which have to do with "mortgaging the future" or "trading assets up to obtain QBs.  Was Rex hired to save EJ?  Did we resign Dareus and Shady to improve our football team or save EJ's career?  Is this thing on?

 

Like I stated above, the dirty little secret is that mortgaging the future is crap.  The Bills screwed up with EJ when they didn't immediately continue to search for other QB's when he proved he was a dud.  No more, no less. The Rams don't care about their mortgaged future.  The Eagles mortgaged their future to buy a Super Bowl ring.  

 

I'd trade 10 first rounds picks to give Allen the best chance to win a Super Bowl.  This fear-mongering and belief that the absence of risk is the best way forward is nonsense perpetuated by GM's that want to keep their jobs without appearing like they gambled and they lost.  

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3 hours ago, jeremy2020 said:

 

I read a lot of AFC East forums and there's some...familiarity with certain posters on this board from other forums. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the folks who are in the "Every single move the Bills make is the wrong one" crowd aren't actually Bills fans..

You are probably right.  I know a guy who's an Eagles fan who has "infiltrated" the Patriots fan forum.  

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15 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Let's.

 

"The Bills made the foolish mistake of drafting EJ Manuel, which set the franchise back for two years wasting time waiting for him to develop."


This differs from Allen, disregarding the prospect quality, how?

This is what you said:

 

"That said, how the #Bills went about obtaining Allen didn't leave them vulnernable in terms of future draft picks.
The trades were limited to last year. ...

 

As a result, if Allen doesn't pan out -- and there's no indication right now that he won't -- the Bills haven't mortgaged their future in being solely tied to his future. ..."

 

We didn't obtain EJ by leaving us vulnerable in terms of future picks, did we?

 

"which set the franchise back for two years wasting time waiting for him to develop."

 

Seeing as Allen hasn't even played a second season yet, how can we say we aren't "wasting two years waiting for him to develop?"  I don't think we are, but that sounds a lot like counting your chickens before they hatched to me.

 

"If that wasn't bad enough, the Bills then doubled down on their mistake the following year by giving up a first-round draft pick to select Sammy Watkins to prop up a quarterback who wasn't going to succeed, thus mortgaging yet another year, and possibly two, of building the team."

 

What a wonderfully archaic notion, and a symptom of NFL tradition.  Losing a first round pick means you're out of the QB game, always and forever I guess.  The Bills missed out on such wonderful available QBs with #19 of the 2015 draft like Garrett Grayson, Bryce Petty, and Brett Hundley.  Surely drafting those guys with a #1 would have saved us.

 

Or maybe, it's your opinion that the 2014 Bills would have gone 1-15 without Sammy Watkins and we could have grabbed Mariota or Winston.  Those guys have both proven to be the answer at QB, after all.  Those franchises aren't "wasting time" on those two young guys, unsure of whether to walk away or not.  

 

"Add in a few more ill-conceived contracts and a bad coaching hire in Rex, and It's taken six years to finally get out of that hole."

 

Neither of which have to do with "mortgaging the future" or "trading assets up to obtain QBs.  Was Rex hired to save EJ?  Did we resign Dareus and Shady to improve our football team or save EJ's career?  Is this thing on?

 

Like I stated above, the dirty little secret is that mortgaging the future is crap.  The Bills screwed up with EJ when they didn't immediately continue to search for other QB's when he proved he was a dud.  No more, no less. The Rams don't care about their mortgaged future.  The Eagles mortgaged their future to buy a Super Bowl ring.  

 

I'd trade 10 first rounds picks to give Allen the best chance to win a Super Bowl.  This fear-mongering and belief that the absence of risk is the best way forward is nonsense perpetuated by GM's that want to keep their jobs without appearing like they gambled and they lost.  

It sounds to me like you think that EJ Manuel = Josh Allen (by the way if am wrong on that I apologize in advance)

 

These two qbs do not remotely look the same to me.

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3 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

It sounds to me like you think that EJ Manuel = Josh Allen (by the way if am wrong on that I apologize in advance)

 

These two qbs do not remotely look the same to me.

I do not, and that's not the conclusion I am going for.

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1 hour ago, BillsfaninSB said:

 

I remember watching the K.C. /Seattle game last year.   Wilson was throwing up these lobs (great location) and the receivers were just bringing them in like they were magnets.  I remember thinking why can’t we have that. 

 

I have that reaction a lot while watching games.  "Dammmit if that were Allen, our guys would never catch that and announcers be saying how inaccurate he is"

 

47 minutes ago, john wawrow said:

Here's a nugget: What if AJ wanted out because he was unhappy he got hurt and wasn't awarded the starting job.

The Bills weren't going to win the opener with either three of the quarterbacks.

The only mistake made, which Beane has fessed up to, is he should've brought in Anderson the minute he traded McCarron.

Lesson learned.

 

Doesn't that simply beg the question, why AJ wasn't given the start?  Of the 3 QB on the roster, he was the one who had actually faced live NFL action and done OK.    The NFL cutting room is littered with pre-season heroes.

 

I guess I don't buy the "only mistake" part - wasn't it a mistake to bring in a rookie into a QB room with only a backup of limited playing experience, new to this system, and a 2nd year guy with a record-setting horrible NFL start?  When they traded TT, I thought sure they were gonna sign one of the more experienced FAs.  When they didn't, I thought "OK, they're gonna go after Anderson".  Me being wrong on both counts doesn't mean they weren't mistaken.

Move on, obviously, but it was and still is most puzzling.

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49 minutes ago, john wawrow said:

 

Is it overstated?

Let's review.

The Bills made the foolish mistake of drafting EJ Manuel, which set the franchise back for two years wasting time waiting for him to develop.

If that wasn't bad enough, the Bills then doubled down on their mistake the following year by giving up a first-round draft pick to select Sammy Watkins to prop up a quarterback who wasn't going to succeed, thus mortgaging yet another year, and possibly two, of building the team.

 

Add in a few more ill-conceived contracts and a bad coaching hire in Rex, and It's taken six years to finally get out of that hole.

 

It's a dirty little secret only if you don't compound one mistake with another and another.

 

And that's what happened.

 

jw

 

 

 

Here's a nugget: What if AJ wanted out because he was unhappy he got hurt and wasn't awarded the starting job.

The Bills weren't going to win the opener with either three of the quarterbacks.

The only mistake made, which Beane has fessed up to, is he should've brought in Anderson the minute he traded McCarron.

Lesson learned.

 

Move on.

 

jw

One first round draft pick doesn't "mortgage" a year of a franchise. Doesn't help, but it's not like Sammy was a bust here. Guy was a very good rookie and top 5 WR the second half of the 2015 season before injuries derailed him. 

 

The biggest reason for them still stuck in mediocrity was the Pegulas hire of Rex. Just an idiotic hire from people out of their scope.

 

Jury is still out on if they are really are out of the mess, all depends on Allens progression. They could've truly been out of the mess had they not passed on Mahomes for a trade back and a corner. 

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1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

Look.....qb mistakes were made....they should have done a better job finding a vet to go along with the rookie they were going to draft

 

but

 

It would not made one bit of difference.....because they also had to replace 2 starting linemen and they were not able to do that AND everything has been pointing to THIS offseason when were going to have all that cap space to fill the positions with the correct type of players.....

 

Dont judge them on what they did last year......in a rebiulding year nobody is gonna be happen with the final win loss team final standing.....judge them on what they do THIS year when they were not hamstrung by dead cap.

 

No sale. 

 

Why shouldn't they be judged?  This is the "Not for Long".  Other teams go from 5-11 to 9-7 to 12-4 in the HC 2nd year.
 

Why shouldn't they have been able to replace 2 starting linemen?  They chose to trade their LT when they could have kept him and chosen a different path in the draft, moved Dawkins inside, then spent a bit more on FA linemen.  It's not as if no linemen were out there, or that they didn't know they had to at least replace their center prior to the start of FA.

 

They created all the dead cap by their strategy of moving players, why shouldn't they be accountable for the result?

 

This is an example of the "give them a pass" mentality that frustrates me. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to throw them under the bus - I'm like most everyone else in hoping we're on the right track and the franchise is trending up.  I just don't see why they get a pass for their own decisions, bad as well as good.  They could have chosen to put more of the resources they had into linemen last year and this year, and if they haven't done enough to fix the line that's arguably a poor decision when trying to support a rookie QB.

 

@Shaw66 this is an example of what I mean.

 

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15 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

One first round draft pick doesn't "mortgage" a year of a franchise. Doesn't help, but it's not like Sammy was a bust here. Guy was a very good rookie and top 5 WR the second half of the 2015 season before injuries derailed him. 

 

The biggest reason for them still stuck in mediocrity was the Pegulas hire of Rex. Just an idiotic hire from people out of their scope.

 

Jury is still out on if they are really are out of the mess, all depends on Allens progression. They could've truly been out of the mess had they not passed on Mahomes for a trade back and a corner. 

 

Guess you've forgotten the Bills spent two first round picks (plus another pick) on Watkins.   And his most notable highlight in the Bills uni?   Getting caught from behind while celebrating too soon.  One of the dumbest Bills draft decisions ever.

 

But love the 'top five WR in this tiny stretch of games!" logic.   Reminds me of the endless cherry-picking, Spiller die-hards.

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Posted (edited)

19 years covering the team?

 

He's the curse!

 

Maybe his "What do you make of X" questions to every coach and player are more than they seem... 😨

Edited by Hapless Bills Fan
inappropriate language
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2 hours ago, matter2003 said:

Mostly true I guess.  Wasnt there a period of several years when the Seahawks were going deep into the playoffs, and making/winning Superbowls where they didn't a first round pick like 3 or 4 years in a row because of trades? I think they gave up one of them in the PErcy Harvin trade if I am not mistaken...didn't seem to hurt them too much...

 

Having Russell Wilson during the SB years making Derek Anderson money didn't hurt either.

I can easily see the Seahawks not making the playoffs this year.

Their big run could be over with.

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25 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

No sale. 

 

Why shouldn't they be judged?  This is the "Not for Long".  Other teams go from 5-11 to 9-7 to 12-4 in the HC 2nd year.
 

Why shouldn't they have been able to replace 2 starting linemen?  They chose to trade their LT when they could have kept him and chosen a different path in the draft, moved Dawkins inside, then spent a bit more on FA linemen.  It's not as if no linemen were out there, or that they didn't know they had to at least replace their center prior to the start of FA.

 

They created all the dead cap by their strategy of moving players, why shouldn't they be accountable for the result?

 

This is an example of the "give them a pass" mentality that frustrates me. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to throw them under the bus - I'm like most everyone else in hoping we're on the right track and the franchise is trending up.  I just don't see why they get a pass for their own decisions, bad as well as good.  They could have chosen to put more of the resources they had into linemen last year and this year, and if they haven't done enough to fix the line that's arguably a poor decision when trying to support a rookie QB.

 

@Shaw66 this is an example of what I mean.

 

Glenn had injury issues.....they thought they had a drafted player that could slide right in....they used that player to get up for their QB.

 

Then that same team turned around and drafted another OL high again this year.

 

This team over the past 2 years has done what it has actually NEVER done......a full bonafied rebiuld.   We have NEVER seen that from the bills it has been patch patch patch stick your finger in the holes in the boat thinking.......they tried everything else and FINALLY decided to tear the whole damn thing down......all accumulating to this offseason with its 10 draft picks and 90 million in cap space.

 

They deserve the chance to show whether they were right to do so.

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1 hour ago, BringBackOrton said:

Let's.

 

"The Bills made the foolish mistake of drafting EJ Manuel, which set the franchise back for two years wasting time waiting for him to develop."


This differs from Allen, disregarding the prospect quality, how?

This is what you said:

 

"That said, how the #Bills went about obtaining Allen didn't leave them vulnernable in terms of future draft picks.
The trades were limited to last year. ...

 

As a result, if Allen doesn't pan out -- and there's no indication right now that he won't -- the Bills haven't mortgaged their future in being solely tied to his future. ..."

 

We didn't obtain EJ by leaving us vulnerable in terms of future picks, did we?

 

"which set the franchise back for two years wasting time waiting for him to develop."

 

Seeing as Allen hasn't even played a second season yet, how can we say we aren't "wasting two years waiting for him to develop?"  I don't think we are, but that sounds a lot like counting your chickens before they hatched to me.

 

"If that wasn't bad enough, the Bills then doubled down on their mistake the following year by giving up a first-round draft pick to select Sammy Watkins to prop up a quarterback who wasn't going to succeed, thus mortgaging yet another year, and possibly two, of building the team."

 

What a wonderfully archaic notion, and a symptom of NFL tradition.  Losing a first round pick means you're out of the QB game, always and forever I guess.  The Bills missed out on such wonderful available QBs with #19 of the 2015 draft like Garrett Grayson, Bryce Petty, and Brett Hundley.  Surely drafting those guys with a #1 would have saved us.

 

Or maybe, it's your opinion that the 2014 Bills would have gone 1-15 without Sammy Watkins and we could have grabbed Mariota or Winston.  Those guys have both proven to be the answer at QB, after all.  Those franchises aren't "wasting time" on those two young guys, unsure of whether to walk away or not.  

 

"Add in a few more ill-conceived contracts and a bad coaching hire in Rex, and It's taken six years to finally get out of that hole."

 

Neither of which have to do with "mortgaging the future" or "trading assets up to obtain QBs.  Was Rex hired to save EJ?  Did we resign Dareus and Shady to improve our football team or save EJ's career?  Is this thing on?

 

Like I stated above, the dirty little secret is that mortgaging the future is crap.  The Bills screwed up with EJ when they didn't immediately continue to search for other QB's when he proved he was a dud.  No more, no less. The Rams don't care about their mortgaged future.  The Eagles mortgaged their future to buy a Super Bowl ring.  

 

I'd trade 10 first rounds picks to give Allen the best chance to win a Super Bowl.  This fear-mongering and belief that the absence of risk is the best way forward is nonsense perpetuated by GM's that want to keep their jobs without appearing like they gambled and they lost.  

 

1: The Bills weren't going to make the playoffs one way or another last year. They knew it. Most discerning Bills fans new it. It was a "wasted year" only because of the decision to go with a very young roster and a patchwork lineup, while getting out from the under the salary cap rock the team inherited.

Thus then puts the onus on Allen to show signs of improving, and from everything I saw from last year, he's ahead of EJ Manuel in that department. He's a better, more athletic quarterback. Not saying he's great or good yet. He's better than Manuel.

 

2. All I'm saying is the selection of EJ Manuel was a bust from the beginning and Nix should never have painted the team into that corner in the first place. By many accounts, Allen's performance last year was better than that of some of the other first-rounders taken.

 

3. You seem hellbent on proving your little notion that things can be turned around swiftly.

How about we provide some examples of that.

 

The St. Louis/LA Rams were world beaters for so long under Jeff Fisher.

The Oakland Raiders have made leaps and bounds under all the people they've had coaching them, plus DEREK CARR!

Cleveland.

 

4. The decision to trade up 5 spots to draft Sammy Watkins was questioned when it happened, and continues to be second-guessed by just about everybody. It was no different than Donahoe, unhappy over losing out on Roethlisberger, to trade back into the first round and draft JP Losman on what was essentially an egotistical whim.

That move set the franchise back for four years.

 

But you clearly have all the answers, and there's nothing I could say to change your mind.

 

So let's leave it with me wishing I could agree with you, but knowing I can't because that would make both of us wrong.

 

jw

 

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3 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Glenn had injury issues.....they thought they had a drafted player that could slide right in....they used that player to get up for their QB.

 

Then that same teamh turned around and drafted another OL high again this year.

 

This team over the past 2 years has done what it has actually NEVER done......a full bonafied rebiuld.   We have NEVER seen that from the bills it has been patch patch patch stick your finger in the holes in the boat thinking.......they tried everything else and FINALLY decided to tear the whole damn thing down......all accumulating to this offseason with its 10 draft picks and 90 million in cap space.

 

They deserve the chance to show whether they were right to do so.

 

Well, they're getting their chance. 

 

And hopefully this year will prove that they're on the right track.

 

But if it doesn't, what then?  Will it be "Oh, they get a pass for the first 2 years, so they need 2 more years to see how it goes?"  I don't know the right answer.  I'm asking you.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I have that reaction a lot while watching games.  "Dammmit if that were Allen, our guys would never catch that and announcers be saying how inaccurate he is"

 

 

Doesn't that simply beg the question, why AJ wasn't given the start?  Of the 3 QB on the roster, he was the one who had actually faced live NFL action and done OK.    The NFL cutting room is littered with pre-season heroes.

 

I guess I don't buy the "only mistake" part - wasn't it a mistake to bring in a rookie into a QB room with only a backup of limited playing experience, new to this system, and a 2nd year guy with a record-setting horrible NFL start?  When they traded TT, I thought sure they were gonna sign one of the more experienced FAs.  When they didn't, I thought "OK, they're gonna go after Anderson".  Me being wrong on both counts doesn't mean they weren't mistaken.

Move on, obviously, but it was and still is most puzzling.

 

AJ wasn't exactly wowing a whole bunch of folks in either training camp or preseason before he got hurt.

They did consider going after Anderson and Anderson was open to coming to Buffalo. That ended when Buffalo instead signed McCarron, who was supposed to be the place-holder.

He wasn't. In fact, in retrospect, Barkley did better with the offense than any of them.

 

jw

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8 minutes ago, john wawrow said:

So let's leave it with me wishing I could agree with you, but knowing I can't because that would make both of us wrong.

jw

 

"Well," he stated judicially, "start awful early when yu' go to fool with him, or he'll make you feel unpunctual."

 

4 minutes ago, john wawrow said:

AJ wasn't exactly wowing a whole bunch of folks in either training camp or preseason before he got hurt.

They did consider going after Anderson and Anderson was open to coming to Buffalo. That ended when Buffalo instead signed McCarron, who was supposed to be the place-holder.

He wasn't. In fact, in retrospect, Barkley did better with the offense than any of them.

 

Agreed on Barkley.  I agree on AJM not wowing folks, also, my point is just we see pre-season heroes every year.

 

I guess my point would be, I think it was a mistake to not continue with acquiring Anderson as the wiley experienced vet for the room full of youngsters, even with McCarron.  For example, unless I'm mistaken, I believe McCarron had never played in an E-P system. 

 

So I can't agree with you that the only mistake was not to sign Anderson immediately after the McCarron trade.  Perhaps we agree that what's most important is they did learn from their mistake and move on?

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38 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

No sale. 

 

Why shouldn't they be judged?  This is the "Not for Long".  Other teams go from 5-11 to 9-7 to 12-4 in the HC 2nd year.
 

Why shouldn't they have been able to replace 2 starting linemen?  They chose to trade their LT when they could have kept him and chosen a different path in the draft, moved Dawkins inside, then spent a bit more on FA linemen.  It's not as if no linemen were out there, or that they didn't know they had to at least replace their center prior to the start of FA.

 

They created all the dead cap by their strategy of moving players, why shouldn't they be accountable for the result?

 

This is an example of the "give them a pass" mentality that frustrates me. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to throw them under the bus - I'm like most everyone else in hoping we're on the right track and the franchise is trending up.  I just don't see why they get a pass for their own decisions, bad as well as good.  They could have chosen to put more of the resources they had into linemen last year and this year, and if they haven't done enough to fix the line that's arguably a poor decision when trying to support a rookie QB.

 

@Shaw66 this is an example of what I mean.

 

 

Sonofagun.

Do you live in a vacuum in which every moment fails to follow the next, and nothing is ever connected.

 

They had no cap money to replace Wood and Incognito last year.

And the goal was to get out of cap jail, thus the reason they traded Glenn, in which they actually swapped first-round draft picks, which allowed them the opportunity to move up to draft Josh Allen.

 

They created the dead cap strategy because the players under high-priced contracts weren't performing to the value of those contracts.

 

You don't give them a pass, you judge them on what they did. Sure seems like they accomplished a lot.

 

smfh.

 

jw

 

 

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Well, they're getting their chance. 

 

And hopefully this year will prove that they're on the right track.

 

But if it doesn't, what then?  Will it be "Oh, they get a pass for the first 2 years, so they need 2 more years to see how it goes?"  I don't know the right answer.  I'm asking you.

 

 

No...even the buck stops here with me.....and I have been one of the avid supporters

 

We need results....this year.

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4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

I guess my point would be, I think it was a mistake to not continue with acquiring Anderson as the wiley experienced vet for the room full of youngsters, even with McCarron.  For example, unless I'm mistaken, I believe McCarron had never played in an E-P system. 

 

So I can't agree with you that the only mistake was not to sign Anderson immediately after the McCarron trade.  Perhaps we agree that what's most important is they did learn from their mistake and move on?

 

Again, the thinking in a vacuum thing.

They weren't going to carry four quarterbacks. To do so would've been ludicrous.

Difficult enough to have a fair three-way competition for the starting job, while also making sure Josh Allen gets time to develop. But of course, you want to add a fourth QB in the mix. Why not a fifth?

Who, this side of Jon Gruden, wants to make it six?

 

my gawd.

 

jw

Sorry, is it me, or do people here not follow football?

 

Asking for a friend.

 

🤨

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9 minutes ago, john wawrow said:

Sonofagun.

Do you live in a vacuum in which every moment fails to follow the next, and nothing is ever connected.

 

They had no cap money to replace Wood and Incognito last year.

And the goal was to get out of cap jail, thus the reason they traded Glenn, in which they actually swapped first-round draft picks, which allowed them the opportunity to move up to draft Josh Allen.

 

No, I don't live in a vacuum, and I probably spend more time studying contracts and cap and FA and such than is good for me.  I also get up quite early.  🤠

They weren't so bereft of cap that they couldn't throw $3.5M at Corey Coleman.  They had a couple FA OL choices that are good players that were feasible to bring in with the cap space they had - and who went on to play well for other teams

 

I also understand the Glenn trade, my point is they had choices to move up that didn't require them to send their starting LT (who started 13 games last year) packing, when they were already in a situation of needing to replace a starting C and were clearly not too happy with Cog before he went whackadoodle. 

 

Look at how much free cap we have this year - surely you aren't going to try to construct an argument that we couldn't have handled keeping Glenn around and still had plenty of cap.

 



 

6 minutes ago, john wawrow said:

 

Again, the thinking in a vacuum thing.

They weren't going to carry four quarterbacks. To do so would've been ludicrous.

Difficult enough to have a fair three-way competition for the starting job, while also making sure Josh Allen gets time to develop. But of course, you want to add a fourth QB in the mix. Why not a fifth?

Who, this side of Jon Gruden, wants to make it six?

 

my gawd.

 

jw

Sorry, is it me, or do people here not follow football?

 

Asking for a friend.

 

🤨

 

John, please take a breath.  No one including me is say "carry 4 QB".   You cut one or trade one.  I have a candidate.  Do you really want to argue that objectively, Peterman showed enough his rookie season to be untouchable on an NFL roster?  You're creating a strawman here, then entering into the reductio ad absurdum to bolster it by suggesting 5 or 6.

 

Don't.

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