RD 3, Pick 74: RB Devin Singletary, Florida Atlantic

[thebandit27]

4 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

He may have had a disappointing career overall, but his 2012 season has arguably been the best season by a Bills RB since 1992. 6 ypc, 10.3 ypr, over 1700 yards from scrimmage. Let’s not forget that.

 

Right?

 

He was also outstanding in the back half of 2011 when Fred was hurt.

 

People tend to dismiss entire seasons of great play if they want to criticize a player.

 

It's weird.

[RoyBatty is alive]

5 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Right?

 

He was also outstanding in the back half of 2011 when Fred was hurt.

 

People tend to dismiss entire seasons of great play if they want to criticize a player.

 

It's weird.

 

 

Chan Gailey really knew how to maximize CJ Spiller.

[eball]

22 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

30 Spots higher?  That means they had him going #2 in the second round?

 

A way undersized slow scat back from a tier 2 college?

 

I think 74-30 = 44.  So the Bills likely had a mid-2nd round grade on Singletary.

 

You description of Singletary as a player also leaves a bit to be desired.  There are many NFL experts I've heard who believe he has a chance to be very good in the NFL, and it was a shrewd move by Buffalo to get a young, talented guy in the locker room to feed off of the wisdom of guys like Shady and Gore.

[BillsFan17]

2 minutes ago, eball said:

 

I think 74-30 = 44.  So the Bills likely had a mid-2nd round grade on Singletary.

 

You description of Singletary as a player also leaves a bit to be desired.  There are many NFL experts I've heard who believe he has a chance to be very good in the NFL, and it was a shrewd move by Buffalo to get a young, talented guy in the locker room to feed off of the wisdom of guys like Shady and Gore.

Agreed 110%, buffalo needed to get a young back in here to learn from the Shady and Gore. However, not in the third.

 

I am actually a Singletary fan 100%. Was drafted too highly

 

 

[RoyBatty is alive]

1 minute ago, eball said:

 

I think 74-30 = 44.  So the Bills likely had a mid-2nd round grade on Singletary.

 

You description of Singletary as a player also leaves a bit to be desired.  There are many NFL experts I've heard who believe he has a chance to be very good in the NFL, and it was a shrewd move by Buffalo to get a young, talented guy in the locker room to feed off of the wisdom of guys like Shady and Gore.

 

 

LOL, and i almost good a college degree in Math, you are correct, my mistake still that is incredibly high.

 

I hope he is a great player I just have my doubts.  Here is one "scout" I have a lot of respect for, thinks he was a 5th rounder.

 

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/devin-singletary?id=32195349-4e18-6919-d1e6-003f4632ba87

[eball]

1 minute ago, BillsFan17 said:

Agreed 110%, buffalo needed to get a young back in here to learn from the Shady and Gore. However, not in the third.

 

I am actually a Singletary fan 100%. Was drafted too highly

 

 

After the first round, I think people get WAY too caught up in where a guy was drafted.  If Singletary becomes a productive player nobody will ever care that he was drafted at #74 instead of #94.  Nobody.

[BillsFan17]

2 minutes ago, eball said:

 

After the first round, I think people get WAY too caught up in where a guy was drafted.  If Singletary becomes a productive player nobody will ever care that he was drafted at #74 instead of #94.  Nobody.

Strongly disagree, especially in this past class where a lot of people felt the talent ran through the third round (for some positions).

 

And of course people should care, what makes a good general manager is finding talent all over the draft. The ideology that as long as they are successful no one will care, is short sighted. It absolutely changes the dynamic.

[eball]

12 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said:

Strongly disagree, especially in this past class where a lot of people felt the talent ran through the third round (for some positions).

 

And of course people should care, what makes a good general manager is finding talent all over the draft. The ideology that as long as they are successful no one will care, is short sighted. It absolutely changes the dynamic.

 

The Bills could wind up with four starters through the first three rounds of this draft (Oliver, Ford, Singletary, Knox).  You are speaking as though it was a foregone conclusion Singletary would be around later.  You are also implying I don't care if Beane "reaches" for players...I don't think he did in this situation and if Singletary proves to be an above-average RB my point will be proven.  The point remains, however, that fans in particular get way too "jacked up" over where a guy was drafted before they have any idea the sort of player he will be in the NFL.

[Johnny Hammersticks]

It's amazing to me how folks continue to doubt Beane, and trust the other talking heads WRT where players are drafted.  Why people automatically assume that they "reached" for Singletary based on draft rankings created outside of OBD is dumb, IMO.  Beane and his crew had their draft board.  They felt they got good value where Devin was drafted.  Who are we to question/doubt that?

[dave mcbride]

35 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Right?

 

He was also outstanding in the back half of 2011 when Fred was hurt.

 

People tend to dismiss entire seasons of great play if they want to criticize a player.

 

It's weird.

Good point. In the final five games of that season, he had 446 yards, 5.2 ypc, 89 ypg, 27 receptions for 205 yards (7.6 ypr) and 5 TDs.  That prorates over 16 games to 1427 rushing yards, 86 receptions for 656 yards, 2083 yards from scrimmage, and 16 TDs. 

 

Anyway, for a season and third, he performed like a truly elite player. It all went downhill when Marrone and Hackett put him in an offense that minimized his manifest skill set.

[thebandit27]

12 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Good point. In the final five games of that season, he had 446 yards, 5.2 ypc, 89 ypg, 27 receptions for 205 yards (7.6 ypr) and 5 TDs.  That prorates over 16 games to 1427 rushing yards, 86 receptions for 656 yards, 2083 yards from scrimmage, and 16 TDs. 

 

Anyway, for a season and third, he performed like a truly elite player. It all went downhill when Marrone and Hackett put him in an offense that minimized his manifest skill set.

 

Yep.

 

And to make matters worse: that offense caused him to take a pounding from which he never recovered.

[eball]

11 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Good point. In the final five games of that season, he had 446 yards, 5.2 ypc, 89 ypg, 27 receptions for 205 yards (7.6 ypr) and 5 TDs.  That prorates over 16 games to 1427 rushing yards, 86 receptions for 656 yards, 2083 yards from scrimmage, and 16 TDs. 

 

Anyway, for a season and third, he performed like a truly elite player. It all went downhill when Marrone and Hackett put him in an offense that minimized his manifest skill set.

 

Kinda highlights the need for coordination between the GM and coaching staff, doesn't it?  Also really places a spotlight on Hackett's (and by association, Marrone's) incompetence.  The selection of Spiller may not have been what was best for the Bills at the time but Gailey knew how to maximize his usefulness.

 

Makes me feel good about the current level of communication between Beane and the coaching staff.

[aristocrat]

19 minutes ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

It's amazing to me how folks continue to doubt Beane, and trust the other talking heads WRT where players are drafted.  Why people automatically assume that they "reached" for Singletary based on draft rankings created outside of OBD is dumb, IMO.  Beane and his crew had their draft board.  They felt they got good value where Devin was drafted.  Who are we to question/doubt that?

 

the issue i have with devon is the speed. he'd have the slowest 40 time of any starting rb in the league.can you think of a starter who had a slower 40?  if he's gonna be small he better be fast.  

[eball]

1 minute ago, aristocrat said:

 

the issue i have with devon is the speed. he'd have the slowest 40 time of any starting rb in the league.can you think of a starter who had a slower 40?  if he's gonna be small he better be fast.  

 

I think this is a baseless criticism.  How many "breakaway" TDs are there in the NFL by RBs?  The key stat for explosiveness is always # of 20+ yard runs.  Singletary has the quickness and short-area speed necessary to do everything needed but break an 80-yarder.

 

Was Thurman fast?  Hell no he wasn't.

[aristocrat]

3 minutes ago, eball said:

 

I think this is a baseless criticism.  How many "breakaway" TDs are there in the NFL by RBs?  The key stat for explosiveness is always # of 20+ yard runs.  Singletary has the quickness and short-area speed necessary to do everything needed but break an 80-yarder.

 

Was Thurman fast?  Hell no he wasn't.

 

thurman still ran a 4.47 40. singletary ran a 4.66.  i hope he's a success but speed seems to be pretty key for rbs in the league. again, how many rbs do you know that had a slower 40?

[Johnny Hammersticks]

8 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

 

the issue i have with devon is the speed. he'd have the slowest 40 time of any starting rb in the league.can you think of a starter who had a slower 40?  if he's gonna be small he better be fast.  

 

Emmitt Smith?  He ran a 4.7 at the combine.

 

https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/dallas-cowboys/cowboys/2016/02/28/nfl-analyst-cowboys-great-emmitt-smith-shows-combine-metric-overrated-rbs

[aristocrat]

2 minutes ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

 

Emmitt Smith?  He ran a 4.7 at the combine.

 

https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/dallas-cowboys/cowboys/2016/02/28/nfl-analyst-cowboys-great-emmitt-smith-shows-combine-metric-overrated-rbs

 

look up his pro day where he ran a 4.52

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

30 Spots higher?  That means they had him going #2 in the second round?

 

A way undersized slow scat back from a tier 2 college?

First of all....his physical biuld (low to the ground) allows for him to be successful without being a huge back......

 

You dont have those kind of carries in college and be a "scat back" if that was the case he would not be durable enough for the amount of work he did in college

 

Third....so you think talent at RB cannot come from a "tier 2 college"?

 

His instincts are what will do it for him if he is successful at the NFL level.....as a 3rd round pick ppl REALLY shouldnt be complaining or downgrding the pick.

[CBD]

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/nfl-combine-results.cgi?request=1&year_min=2001&year_max=2019&pos[]=RB&show=all&order_by=year_id

 

Here's the list. There's a bunch of guys who have been at least moderately successful. James Conner (4.65) and Kareem Hunt (4.62) being most notable. 

 

Speed and size are why he fell though, so yeah it's an issue for him. 

[Johnny Hammersticks]

6 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

 

look up his pro day where he ran a 4.52

 

Still not blazing speed by your criteria.  Singletary ran a 4.66 at the combine.  Is 14 hundredths of a second that big of a difference for a RB?  I think Singletary’s style is similar to Emmitt’s in many ways, actually.

[RoyBatty is alive]

8 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

First of all....his physical biuld (low to the ground) allows for him to be successful without being a huge back......

 

You dont have those kind of carries in college and be a "scat back" if that was the case he would not be durable enough for the amount of work he did in college

 

Third....so you think talent at RB cannot come from a "tier 2 college"?

 

His instincts are what will do it for him if he is successful at the NFL level.....as a 3rd round pick ppl REALLY shouldnt be complaining or downgrding the pick.

1) Ok 

2) fact he didnt get hurt doesnt change that

3) no, never wrote that, yes I am aware of Fred Jackson at Coe....these "one off" examples are just that, one off, the odds of being a great NFL player out of Florida Atlantic are very low

 

"Instincts:" can be counteracting by speed, the NFL game speed are something he has never seen, lets see how his "instincts" hole up when the game materially speeds up.  We are fans, we have every right to "complain", and this was a very , very deep draft class.  

Edited July 22, 2019 by RoyBatty is alive

[John from Riverside]

12 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

 

thurman still ran a 4.47 40. singletary ran a 4.66.  i hope he's a success but speed seems to be pretty key for rbs in the league. again, how many rbs do you know that had a slower 40?

Not if you are elusive and can work well in traffic......

 

Devin isnt going to run away from mast NFL players.....but he can make them miss.

[Rocket94]

Wow! this thread is getting some play. When I checked out Singletary again, I didn't realize how many carries he had in college. I am rooting for this guy. As explosive as he is once he gets out the backfield. he will obviously have an awakening of NFL speed. I hope he makes the adjustments.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

45 minutes ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

It's amazing to me how folks continue to doubt Beane, and trust the other talking heads WRT where players are drafted.  Why people automatically assume that they "reached" for Singletary based on draft rankings created outside of OBD is dumb, IMO.  Beane and his crew had their draft board.  They felt they got good value where Devin was drafted.  Who are we to question/doubt that?

 

At least a decade here .....  AND you still ask that?  

 

[Buffalo716]

1 hour ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

30 Spots higher?  That means they had him going #2 in the second round?

 

A way undersized slow scat back from a tier 2 college?

He was a projected 2nd round pick till he went to the combine hurt

 

He isn't way undersized either. He is short at 5'7 but that is fine for a RB. He is over 200 Pounds already

 

And look at his tape, he is far from slow , he has great game speed and makes everybody miss. He also isn't afraid to run up the gut

 

I easily could see teams with a 2nd round grade on him

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, BillsFan17 said:

Agreed 110%, buffalo needed to get a young back in here to learn from the Shady and Gore. However, not in the third.

 

I am actually a Singletary fan 100%. Was drafted too highly

 

 

Was drafted too highly?  And your a fan?

 

If a player can make plays they are NEVER drafted too highly....the draft is a complete crap shoot where 1st rounders bust.  The kid was taken in the THIRD ROUND

19 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

1) Ok 

2) fact he didnt get hurt doesnt change that

3) no, never wrote that, yes I am aware of Fred Jackson at Coe....these "one off" examples are just that, one off, the odds of being a great NFL player out of Florida Atlantic are very low

 

"Instincts:" can be counteracting by speed, the NFL game speed are something he has never seen, lets see how his "instincts" hole up when the game materially speeds up.  We are fans, we have every right to "complain", and this was a very , very deep draft class.  

I dont understand the complaining until there is actually something to complain about......

 

Training camp has not even started yet

[Chandler#81]

8 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

 

I dont understand the complaining until there is actually something to complain about......

 

Training camp has not even started yet

Hasn’t constructed a quality post yet in 1500 tries.

[BillsFan17]

1 hour ago, eball said:

 

The Bills could wind up with four starters through the first three rounds of this draft (Oliver, Ford, Singletary, Knox).  You are speaking as though it was a foregone conclusion Singletary would be around later.  You are also implying I don't care if Beane "reaches" for players...I don't think he did in this situation and if Singletary proves to be an above-average RB my point will be proven.  The point remains, however, that fans in particular get way too "jacked up" over where a guy was drafted before they have any idea the sort of player he will be in the NFL.

I didnt imply anyone would be around at any point in the draft. I pointed out I thought Singletary was taken too highly, and where you draft players does matter.

 

It happens every single year, teams fall in love with players and take them at points that leave some scratching their heads, sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. That being said, just because another team might have snagged Singletary if we passed, doesnt push his value up. His grade remains the same. It would be an artificial justification of over drafting a player... you cant allow what other teams intention may or may not be effect your overall strategy.

 

Even more emphasis on RB, a very diminished position in the league, that by all accounts becomes the least likely position for success with each passing round.

 

I'd much rather take a valued position, whose value fits, and bolsters the roster. I'm all for BPA, and that's always my philosophy, which is why its hard for me to say Singletary was infact the BPA. Players like Winovich were still on the board for example.

[Putin]

59 minutes ago, CBD said:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/nfl-combine-results.cgi?request=1&year_min=2001&year_max=2019&pos[]=RB&show=all&order_by=year_id

 

Here's the list. There's a bunch of guys who have been at least moderately successful. James Conner (4.65) and Kareem Hunt (4.62) being most notable. 

 

Speed and size are why he fell though, so yeah it's an issue for him. 

Eddie Lacey run 4.64 

[eball]

9 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said:

I didnt imply anyone would be around at any point in the draft. I pointed out I thought Singletary was taken too highly, and where you draft players does matter.

 

It happens every single year, teams fall in love with players and take them at points that leave some scratching their heads, sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. That being said, just because another team might have snagged Singletary if we passed, doesnt push his value up. His grade remains the same. It would be an artificial justification of over drafting a player... you cant allow what other teams intention may or may not be effect your overall strategy.

 

Even more emphasis on RB, a very diminished position in the league, that by all accounts becomes the least likely position for success with each passing round.

 

I'd much rather take a valued position, whose value fits, and bolsters the roster. I'm all for BPA, and that's always my philosophy, which is why its hard for me to say Singletary was infact the BPA. Players like Winovich were still on the board for example.

 

Beane did not do this.  They had Singletary graded much higher than the next best available player on their board.  You disagree with that grade, fine, but there is no evidence they panicked or reached to draft him.  In the Bills' room it was literally a case of either taking him or ignoring their own evaluations.

[BillsFan17]

1 hour ago, eball said:

 

Beane did not do this.  They had Singletary graded much higher than the next best available player on their board.  You disagree with that grade, fine, but there is no evidence they panicked or reached to draft him.  In the Bills' room it was literally a case of either taking him or ignoring their own evaluations.

I'm not talking about specifically, more in generalities.

[Big C]

 

2 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

He was a projected 2nd round pick till he went to the combine hurt

 

He isn't way undersized either. He is short at 5'7 but that is fine for a RB. He is over 200 Pounds already

 

And look at his tape, he is far from slow , he has great game speed and makes everybody miss. He also isn't afraid to run up the gut

 

I easily could see teams with a 2nd round grade on him

 

A lot of people seem to be misinterpreting "30 spots ahead of the next available player" to mean "30 spots ahead of where he was drafted." What is likely is that they had Singletary ranked somewhere around 55-60 and some guys they had ranked a bit lower were taken a little earlier than the Bills had them, as happens all the time once you get passed the first round and a half or so. 

[Buffalo716]

7 minutes ago, Big C said:

 

 

A lot of people seem to be misinterpreting "30 spots ahead of the next available player" to mean "30 spots ahead of where he was drafted." What is likely is that they had Singletary ranked somewhere around 55-60 and some guys they had ranked a bit lower were taken a little earlier than the Bills had them, as happens all the time once you get passed the first round and a half or so. 

Of course

 

I'm not saying he had a top 30 grade.

 

When we drafted him he was 30 spots ahead of any player on our board. He easily could've been 55

Edited July 22, 2019 by Buffalo716

[colin]

did singletary have a better pro day 40 time than at the combine, or am i imagining that?

 

i THINK he had a similar spread pro day vs combine as did emmit smith.  if our line can get it together I'm a fan of our back field.  guys who can make a few yards out of small creases and break tackles will pull up LBs for play action.

[Big C]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Of course

 

I'm not saying he had a top 20 grade.

 

When we drafted him he was 30 spots ahead of any player on our board

 

No, I was speaking more toward the post you were responding to and agreeing with yours. 

[Buffalo716]

3 minutes ago, Big C said:

 

No, I was speaking more toward the post you were responding to and agreeing with yours. 

Yea I confused myself. When you quoted me and said 30 spots ahead of the next available player" to mean "30 spots ahead of where he was drafted." 

 

That was the first time I read that and got caught up with it my next post

 

My original take was that he easily could've had a second round grade from the Bills because he is very talented and plays faster than his 40 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

16 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Of course

 

I'm not saying he had a top 30 grade.

 

When we drafted him he was 30 spots ahead of any player on our board. He easily could've been 55

 

 

...think this kid could be the next Sproules, (Eric) Metcalf, (Terry) Metcalf or Meggett (pre-arrest)......significant multi-skilled talent with size and speed.....

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

...think this kid could be the next Sproules, (Eric) Metcalf, (Terry) Metcalf or Meggett (pre-arrest)......significant multi-skilled talent with size and speed.....

Or he could be the next Karim Hunt (in a good way)

[LSHMEAB]

7 hours ago, eball said:

 

After the first round, I think people get WAY too caught up in where a guy was drafted.  If Singletary becomes a productive player nobody will ever care that he was drafted at #74 instead of #94.  Nobody.

But we will certainly have a right to HATE taking him at 74 if he ISN'T a productive player. 3rd round running backs are expected to be relatively productive right out of the gate. I prefer your scenario, but time will tell. I have my doubts about Singletary. Love his backstory. Love his ability to get into the EZ. Very concerned about his size/speed ratio.

[Punching Bag]

3 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

But we will certainly have a right to HATE taking him at 74 if he ISN'T a productive player. 

 

You have the right to HATE everyone and everything.  Things do not need to make sense.