Interesting thought on Hock & the Bills on Twitter

[Reed83HOF]

 

[BillsFan17]

Depends how much people wanna read the tea leaves on what Murphy truly knows.

[NickelCity]

He was dead on about Allen, for sure. I'd take Hock over Jonah, so I'll hope Murph is wrong here lol.

[golfball323]

Personally I think it's time for Murph to move on. Might just be me but I'm getting a "too big for his britches" feeling from listening to him lately... Maybe I'm just getting old

[JM57]

Disappointing to hear that coming from Bills State Radio. 

[C.Biscuit97]

I don’t know a ton about TJ. However, IMo, it is a lot harder to find a game changing TE than a Jonah Williams.  We neglect TE almost as much as QB.  Would be nice to have a big mismatch who can help out with blocking for a change. 

[John from Riverside]

Might be pushing mis information so that Hock falls to us?

[LABILLBACKER]

4 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I don’t know a ton about TJ. However, IMo, it is a lot harder to find a game changing TE than a Jonah Williams.  We neglect TE almost as much as QB.  Would be nice to have a big mismatch who can help out with blocking for a change. 

The Bills organization has NEVER had a dynamic TE in their history. I think it's time for that to change. 

[Reed83HOF]

1 minute ago, LABILLBACKER said:

The Bills organization has NEVER had a dynamic TE in their history. I think it's time for that to change. 

Especially in this day and age. 

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, LABILLBACKER said:

The Bills organization has NEVER had a dynamic TE in their history. I think it's time for that to change. 

How dare you forget about the great Lee Smith?

 

what I don’t get is why don’t bad teams copy what good teams do.  The Pats constantly spend picks on TEs and sign FA TEs.  That’s why I liked the Clay signing. It was at least an effort.  When you have a young qb, you need a big target in the middle of field.  I really like Beasley but he wasn’t as effective without Witten.  

[YoloinOhio]

15 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

I have to call BS on whoever it was that tweeted that. He was not talking up Allen last year at all. Tasker even less so. 

 

Btw he’s been all in on metcalf this year 

Edited April 22, 2019 by YoloinOhio

[wppete]

Smoke Screens everywhere this week. Dont believe a thing anyone says.

[Logic]

I like Hock a lot, but for what it's worth, Noah Fant had TWICE as many receiving touchdowns over the last two seasons as Hock. Hock -- 9. Fant -- 18 (!).
 

[Coach Tuesday]

Was Brian Bulaga worth a #9?  

[JM57]

5 minutes ago, Logic said:

I like Hock a lot, but for what it's worth, Noah Fant had TWICE as many receiving touchdowns over the last two seasons as Hock. Hock -- 9. Fant -- 18 (!).
 

It's worth little other than knowing that the Iowa QB seemed to look Fant's way in the end zone. Other than TD their stats are very close.

 

Fant: 78 for 1083 yards (13.9 average) and 19 TD when his limited freshman action is included

 

Hock: 73 for 1080 (14.8 average) and 9 TD.

 

 

[mrags]

24 minutes ago, golfball323 said:

Personally I think it's time for Murph to move on. Might just be me but I'm getting a "too big for his britches" feeling from listening to him lately... Maybe I'm just getting old

This. Not to mention he’s just a fat stupid idiot that has no idea what he’s talking about. He was right in the Allen thing. No crap. So we’re a million other idiots that generally don’t have a clue. But it’s not hard to figure out. 

[Buffalo716]

I’m not taking any TE this year top 10... and it would be really hard to do unless he is 100% HoF worthy 

 

Hock isn’t Gronk or Gates so I just cant  justify it that early

[mrags]

3 minutes ago, JM57 said:

It's worth little other than knowing that the Iowa QB seemed to look Fant's way in the end zone. Other than TD their stats are very close.

 

Fant: 78 for 1083 yards (13.9 average) and 19 TD when his limited freshman action is included

 

Hock: 73 for 1080 (14.8 average) and 9 TD.

 

 

Fwiw, I’d probably take Fant all day over Hock. Both will be good. Fant has the potential to be generational. Shockey, Gates, Gronk. Hock doesn’t have that. 

 

And the reason why Fant had more TDS is because he’s a bigger target. More physical. Which is exactly what we need. 

Edited April 22, 2019 by mrags

[C.Biscuit97]

7 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Was Brian Bulaga worth a #9?  

That’s such a great question.  I was on the Bulaga train before his draft.  I think he’s a solid RT when he plays but he’s always hurt. But when you look back at that draft, there were so many bigger impact players than a solid RT.  But you need to invest in your franchise qb.  Great question.

 

obviously, there are many factors at play but I would like a franchise changing player in the top 10 - Qb, pass rusher, play maker.  

[Logic]

3 minutes ago, JM57 said:

It's worth little other than knowing that the Iowa QB seemed to look Fant's way in the end zone. Other than TD their stats are very close.

 

Fant: 78 for 1083 yards (13.9 average) and 19 TD when his limited freshman action is included

 

Hock: 73 for 1080 (14.8 average) and 9 TD.

 

 

Agree to disagree. When one player at the same position, playing in the same offense has DOUBLE the touchdowns of the other player, I think it's significant. 

YOU say "the Iowa QB seemed to look Fant's way in the end zone". I could just easily say "the Iowa QB looked Fant's way in the end zone because Fant was better at getting open".

[C.Biscuit97]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I’m not taking any TE this year top 10... and it would be really hard to do unless he is 100% HoF worthy 

 

Hock isn’t Gronk or Gates so I just cant  justify it that early

But how the hell do you know that?  If you knew Gronk and Gates would be those players, they won’t have gone top 10?  Do Kittles or Kelce not go in the 3rd round and go top 10 if you knew how good they were?

3 minutes ago, Logic said:

Agree to disagree. When one player at the same position, playing in the same offense has DOUBLE the touchdowns of the other player, I think it's significant. 

YOU say "the Iowa QB seemed to look Fant's way in the end zone". I could just easily say "the Iowa QB looked Fant's way in the end zone because Fant was better at getting open".

At the same point, Julio Jones had less tds than Ridley.  Sometimes, a great player draws coverages away to make things easier for another player.  Honestly, I don’t have an idea who is necessarily the better player but some stats can be misleading. 

[Reed83HOF]

22 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

I have to call BS on whoever it was that tweeted that. He was not talking up Allen last year at all. Tasker even less so. 

 

Btw he’s been all in on metcalf this year 

 

I just don't recall last year. I remember Allbright on Allen, but that is it. I let those memories go LOL

 

I don't listen to Murph & Tasker at all really and Chris Brown not so much either. I'm just not a fan of official Team "Journalists"/PR personnel. 

[YoloinOhio]

3 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

I just don't recall last year. I remember Allbright on Allen, but that is it. I let those memories go LOL

 

I don't listen to Murph & Tasker at all really and Chris Brown not so much either. I'm just not a fan of official Team "Journalists"/PR personnel. 

I listen to them more often at this time of year than i do during the season. Anyway, neither one liked Allen last year and I kept wondering what they would do if he was drafted. They really must not have thought he would be. 

Edited April 22, 2019 by YoloinOhio

[JM57]

10 minutes ago, mrags said:

Fwiw, I’d probably take Fant all day over Hock. Both will be good. Fant has the potential to be generational. Shockey, Gates, Gronk. Hock doesn’t have that. 

 

And the reason why Fant had more TDS is because he’s a bigger target. More physical. Which is exactly what we need. 

They measured out almost identical in size at the combine, so bigger target is an interesting take. Hearing Fant referred to as physical is also interesting considering he's more of your stereotypical move TE and has been described as a "get in the way" blocker. FWIW, I think they both can have very successful careers in the NFL. It just depends on what flavor of TE you want. 

 

Fant is going to be a guy you can put in the slot and wreck shop that way, but won't provide much pop to your run game at all unless he puts in some serious work.

 

Hockenson should be able to play anywhere you want him. Inline, in the slot, whatever you need but should be a really good blocker as well as a trusted weapon in the run game.

 

If you take the Patriots nightmare offense with Gronk and Hernandez, Fant is Hernandez. A more consistent Jared Cook? 2018 Eric Ebron? It's tough to put a comp on him that isn't slanderous, if he hits his ceiling

[Buffalo716]

8 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

But how the hell do you know that?  If you knew Gronk and Gates would be those players, they won’t have gone top 10?  Do Kittles or Kelce not go in the 3rd round and go top 10 if you knew how good they were?

At the same point, Julio Jones had less tds than Ridley.  Sometimes, a great player draws coverages away to make things easier for another player.  Honestly, I don’t have an idea who is necessarily the better player but some stats can be misleading. 

That’s the point. TE is a weird position.

 

The failure rate of first round TEs is extremely high... how they develop is super weird , so you are better drafting mid round TEs

 

and Gates was a basketball player who transitioned to football.. he was a project and didn’t have a lot of experience 

 

Gronks tape absolutely screamed 1st round pick. He was extremely injury prone and hurt at Zona which moved him down

 

Gronks tape and Hocks are not alike 

[C.Biscuit97]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

That’s the point. TE is a weird position.

 

The failure rate of first round TEs is extremely high... how they develop is super weird , so you are better drafting mid round TEs

 

and Gates was a basketball player who transitioned to football.. he was a project and didn’t have a lot of experience 

 

Gronks tape absolutely screamed 1st round pick. He was extremely injury prone and hurt at Zona which moved him down

 

Gronks tape and Hocks are not alike 

O line has a higher bust rate then some people want to admit.

 

and I’m not banging the table for TJ.  The last TE I loved was Hunter Henry. I’m just sick of the Bills neglecting such an important position.  Gronk and Kelce were a lot more important to their team’s success than their RTs.

[mrags]

5 minutes ago, JM57 said:

They measured out almost identical in size at the combine, so bigger target is an interesting take. Hearing Fant referred to as physical is also interesting considering he's more of your stereotypical move TE and has been described as a "get in the way" blocker. FWIW, I think they both can have very successful careers in the NFL. It just depends on what flavor of TE you want. 

 

Fant is going to be a guy you can put in the slot and wreck shop that way, but won't provide much pop to your run game at all unless he puts in some serious work.

 

Hockenson should be able to play anywhere you want him. Inline, in the slot, whatever you need but should be a really good blocker as well as a trusted weapon in the run game.

 

If you take the Patriots nightmare offense with Gronk and Hernandez, Fant is Hernandez. A more consistent Jared Cook? 2018 Eric Ebron? It's tough to put a comp on him that isn't slanderous, if he hits his ceiling

Actually. I’ll admit I was wrong here. Looking at their combine measurable, TJ Hock is actually taller and heavier than Fant. I’m basing off what I see on film. Fant just looks larger. Taller. More built than Hock. At least imo. 

 

I wasnt saying hes more physical as in the run game btw. I know Hock is a much better blocker. I meant as far as receiving. Based off the highlights I’ve seen, Fant just looks to be a superior athlete than Hock. 

 

 

[NickelCity]

45 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

I have to call BS on whoever it was that tweeted that. He was not talking up Allen last year at all. Tasker even less so. 

 

Btw he’s been all in on metcalf this year 

 

17 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

I listen to them more often at this time of year than i do during the season. Anyway, neither one liked Allen last year and I kept wondering what they would do if he was drafted. They really must not have thought he would be. 

 

I, too, listen to them more around draft time. Especially last year. Murphy repeatedly said "I think they're high on Allen" or "I get the sense they really like Allen" or a million other variants, repeatedly, that he did not say about the other prospects. But maybe you're only speaking to them singing the praises of Allen as a qb? I don't recall that as clearly, either. 

[YoloinOhio]

Just now, NickelCity said:

 

 

I, too, listen to them more around draft time. Especially last year. Murphy repeatedly said "I think they're high on Allen" or "I get the sense they really like Allen" or a million other variants, repeatedly, that he did not say about the other prospects. But maybe you're only speaking to them singing the praises of Allen as a qb? I don't recall that as clearly, either. 

I just remember them talking negatively about him compared to the others ... a lot. As their own opinions. I don’t remember them ever saying they heard anything about who the Bills liked. 

[Buffalo716]

17 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

O line has a higher bust rate then some people want to admit.

 

and I’m not banging the table for TJ.  The last TE I loved was Hunter Henry. I’m just sick of the Bills neglecting such an important position.  Gronk and Kelce were a lot more important to their team’s success than their RTs.

Oline is definitely not full proof early

 

though Center and guard have high success rates top 10, Tackles can be a bit trickier

 

i like Hock, I think he’ll be a good football player.., I just think their will be a beyter player at 9

[JM57]

16 minutes ago, mrags said:

Actually. I’ll admit I was wrong here. Looking at their combine measurable, TJ Hock is actually taller and heavier than Fant. I’m basing off what I see on film. Fant just looks larger. Taller. More built than Hock. At least imo. 

 

I wasnt saying hes more physical as in the run game btw. I know Hock is a much better blocker. I meant as far as receiving. Based off the highlights I’ve seen, Fant just looks to be a superior athlete than Hock. 

 

 

Yeah definitely more athletic. It's funny some of the write-ups I've read on Hockenson have a hard time finding real negatives for him on the film, maybe some small stuff to clean up, but they're just like "his athletic numbers aren't great."

 

Now I won't call myself an expert but if you're breaking down film of a guy and all you can find to be down on is that he doesn't test off the charts at the combine then you've got my attention. Give me a player whose film is so good you can't even complain about it LOL

[Solomon Grundy]

1 hour ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

Murph and Tasker was high on Metcalf. I also heard Lorax mention him as an explosive, game changing prospect. Was just listening to Eric Moulds on their show and he said the #1 thing he'd want to see from a prospect was their release of the line. Said you can teach route running. 

Edited April 22, 2019 by the skycap

[C.Biscuit97]

7 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Oline is definitely not full proof early

 

though Center and guard have high success rates top 10, Tackles can be a bit trickier

 

i like Hock, I think he’ll be a good football player.., I just think their will be a beyter player at 9

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?type=position&position=OL

 

just 6 years ago, Cooper and Womack went top 10 as G’s.

 

but If you had to choose between Jonah and TJ, who do you go with?  I just really want a difference maker at TE.  Much like receiver, we have a bunch of 2, 3, & 4 guys.  We need a 1.

[RiotAct]

1 hour ago, wppete said:

Smoke Screens everywhere this week. Dont believe a thing anyone says.

even my grandmother?

[Coach Tuesday]

53 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

That’s such a great question.  I was on the Bulaga train before his draft.  I think he’s a solid RT when he plays but he’s always hurt. But when you look back at that draft, there were so many bigger impact players than a solid RT.  But you need to invest in your franchise qb.  Great question.

 

obviously, there are many factors at play but I would like a franchise changing player in the top 10 - Qb, pass rusher, play maker.  

 

He had some injury issues for sure, but when he was healthy he was a solid RT.  But top ten?  Take the best right tackle in the game, whomever that is.  Are they worth a top ten pick?  I'm really not sure.

[C.Biscuit97]

7 minutes ago, the skycap said:

Murph and Tasker was high on Metcalf. I also heard Lorax mention him as an explosive, game changing prospect. Was just listening to Eric Moulds on their show and he said the #1 thing he'd want to see from a prospect was their release of the line. Said you can teach route running. 

Not to disagree with Moulds, but I’m not sure how true this is (also, there seems like there could be a Mississippi bias here).  When Moulds played, it was more important to have these big physical guys.  When NE looks at receivers, they want guys who can get open and there have been a bunch of big names who got cut there because they couldn’t do it.

 

imo, Metcalf would do best where he is the clear number 2.  

[SWATeam]

Just now, C.Biscuit97 said:

Not to disagree with Moulds, but I’m not sure how true this is (also, there seems like there could be a Mississippi bias here).  When Moulds played, it was more important to have these big physical guys.  When NE looks at receivers, they want guys who can get open and there have been a bunch of big names who got cut there because they couldn’t do it.

 

imo, Metcalf would do best where he is the clear number 2.  

Interestingly, my best comp for Metcalf is New England's own- Josh Gordon.

[Solomon Grundy]

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Not to disagree with Moulds, but I’m not sure how true this is (also, there seems like there could be a Mississippi bias here).  When Moulds played, it was more important to have these big physical guys.  When NE looks at receivers, they want guys who can get open and there have been a bunch of big names who got cut there because they couldn’t do it.

 

imo, Metcalf would do best where he is the clear number 2.  

Getting off the bump and run from the line is getting open. He said if a DB can control you from the line, running a route is moot(paraphrasing)

2 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

Interestingly, my best comp for Metcalf is New England's own- Josh Gordon.

I think he can be Moulds too. Look at Moulds career with Bills early.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

1 hour ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

 

I hope we get him but i think Sternberger and Knox would be pretty good gets.

 

 

[BillsfaninSB]

7 minutes ago, RiotAct said:

even my grandmother?

 

Especially your grandmother.