Gronk retired

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

Just now, mannc said:

You are forgetting about Gronk’s 16 post-season games (an entire season of playoff football) in which he caught 12 TD passes and accumulated over 1200 yards on about 80 receptions.  And three Super Bowl rings.

Because he played with the best QB of all time and the best coach of all time? As it was mentioned before, Brady has started 18 seasons and he has as many rings in the 9 years without Gronk as the 9 years with him. Win percentage is about the same with him as before him. Did he matter that much or was it way more to do with Brady & Belichick? They plug and play people all over the field and have been doing it for years.

[mannc]

Just now, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

Because he played with the best QB of all time and the best coach of all time? As it was mentioned before, Brady has started 18 seasons and he has as many rings in the 9 years without Gronk as the 9 years with him. Win percentage is about the same with him as before him. Did he matter that much or was it way more to do with Brady & Belichick? They plug and play people all over the field and have been doing it for years.

The winning percentage before he got there is irrelevant.  They were completely different teams.  

 

If you think Gronkowski was just an interchangeable part in the Patriots’ machine, it shows that you didn’t watch him play.  And at any rate, there is zero evidence that that’s true.  He was pretty much uncoverable, and was a great blocker as well.

[mannc]

1 hour ago, Boatdrinks said:

Fair point. Though it’s become cliche, don’t they say the best ability is availability ? Gronkowski dominated for sure, but his durability takes him out of the all time best conversation imo. Is he HOF great ? Absolutely. But so was Terrell Davis. 

Durability and longevity are factors, but only up to a point.  For my money, OJ Simpson was the greatest RB to play the game, even though he only had four truly dominant seasons.  

 

At any rate, it’s not like Gronkowski had a short career.  He was the best TE in the game for a decade.

[#34fan]

14 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

4 dominant years in his career and your putting him up with the best of all time, sorry just can't do it with that small of a window of being dominant.

 

The rings help... But other than that, Gronk was clutch all day... Got you whatever you needed, whenever you needed it.  Guy is a total bust... -HOF bust, that is.

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

11 minutes ago, mannc said:

You are forgetting about Gronk’s 16 post-season games (an entire season of playoff football) in which he caught 12 TD passes and accumulated over 1200 yards on about 80 receptions.  And three Super Bowl rings.

Other than Tom Brady, Gronk was easily the best player on the most dominant NFL dynasty of all time.  Your suggestion that he wasn’t a difference-maker is one of the worst takes of all time.  

I'm not forgetting Gronk's 16 games in the post season, but I was comparing him to Moss, who played in 15 post season games and Rice, who played in 29 post season games. Why include it when the two guys I'm comparing him to played in as many or in Rice's case almost double the post season games.

 

As far as Gronk being the second most dominate player on the most dominate NFL dynasty of all time, who would be the 3rd most dominate? Exactly, after Brady who cares because they haven't had that many really good players for any stretch during Brady's time playing.

2 minutes ago, #34fan said:

 

The rings help... But other than that, Gronk was clutch all day... Got you whatever you needed, whenever you needed it.  Guy is a total bust... -HOF bust, that is.

Not saying he wasn't really good, just not putting him up with the all time greats with only 4 really good years and ranking 104th in receiving for his career. He didn't even crack the top 100.

[mannc]

17 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

I'm not forgetting Gronk's 16 games in the post season, but I was comparing him to Moss, who played in 15 post season games and Rice, who played in 29 post season games. Why include it when the two guys I'm comparing him to played in as many or in Rice's case almost double the post season games.

 

As far as Gronk being the second most dominate player on the most dominate NFL dynasty of all time, who would be the 3rd most dominate? Exactly, after Brady who cares because they haven't had that many really good players for any stretch during Brady's time playing.

Not saying he wasn't really good, just not putting him up with the all time greats with only 4 really good years and ranking 104th in receiving for his career. He didn't even crack the top 100.

The Patriots have had a lot of great players over the past 18 years.  The fact that none of them measures up to Gronkowski is hardly a mark against him.

 

And I’m not sure why you are comparing Gronk to Moss and Rice.  Those guys were not TEs and never threw a block in their lives.  Come to think of it, same is true of Gonzalez, really.

 

And the word is dominant, not dominate.  ?

Edited March 25, 2019 by mannc

[Ol Dirty B]

8 hours ago, starrymessenger said:

Good. Great player, wrong uni.

 

He's a douche. Wish him the worst.

[MacGyver]

11 hours ago, Canadian Bills Fan said:

I'm glad he retired before the game retired him

 

In 20 years he'll likely be wishing he never played.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

3 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

He's a douche. Wish him the worst.

 

Finally. Something we agree on. I don't understand how any self-respecting Bills fan can be here carrying water for him after what he pulled on Tre White.

 

Just disgusting.

 

[Gugny]

11 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Finally. Something we agree on. I don't understand how any self-respecting Bills fan can be here carrying water for him after what he pulled on Tre White.

 

Just disgusting.

 

 

I don't understand how any self-respecting football fan can define one's entire 9-year-career by one play.

 

And how can any self-respecting Bills fan be here carrying water for Jordan Poyer and Kyle Williams after doing nothing after Gronk hit Tre?  Front row seats to this capital offense and all they did was ask for a flag.

 

 

Edited March 25, 2019 by Gugny

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, Gugny said:

 

I don't understand how any self-respecting football fan can define one's entire 9-year-career by one play.

 

And how can any self-respecting be here carrying water for Jordan Poyer and Kyle Williams after doing nothing after Gronk hit Tre?  Front row seats to this capital offense and all they did was ask for a flag.

 

Being disgusted at the perpetrator doesn't preclude one from being disgusted with those who did nothing about it. Looking at YOU, PBrown.

[CommonCents]

3 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Being disgusted at the perpetrator doesn't preclude one from being disgusted with those who did nothing about it. Looking at YOU, PBrown.

PBrown short for Panties Brown.

 

 

 

At that height of Gronk’s career he was arguably the best TE ever. Size, strength, speed, hands, determination. He had it all going for him and was one of the biggest mismatches in the NFL not just the TE position.

 

Other TEs had longer runs of being good but I don’t remember anyone being better than Gronk at his peak. I’m glad he is gone. 

 

Elbowing dropping Tre because he was frustrated is going to be my lasting memory of him. That and the non reaction by Brown and company. 

 

 

 

[machine gun kelly]

1 down, 2 B’s to go.  I’d lay money it will be two more years, not 4-5 as those hits are going to pile up and Giselle is going to get sick of waiting losing him for half a year minimum.

 

Id bet Brady skips a lot of OTA’s.  Belicheck would be turning 69 three years from now so likely he rides off with Brady.

[dave mcbride]

9 hours ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

Ok, Gronk caught 397 passes that got a first down, Tony caught 864 passes that netted a first down. Your stat and Tony kills him in another one. Receiving yards for a career Tony ranks 5th, Gronk ranks 104th. He only played in 115 games, not nearly enough to put him in the discussion for best TE ever.

Mere counting stats.

8 hours ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

Because he played with the best QB of all time and the best coach of all time? As it was mentioned before, Brady has started 18 seasons and he has as many rings in the 9 years without Gronk as the 9 years with him. Win percentage is about the same with him as before him. Did he matter that much or was it way more to do with Brady & Belichick? They plug and play people all over the field and have been doing it for years.

I can go through any number of postseason games in which HE made the play as much as anyone. To start, the amazing fourth and long catch against Denver in the 2015 AFC championship that put them in position to tie the game. His catches against KC late in the AFC championship game this season. His blocking vs the Chargers this year and vs the Colts in the 2014 afc championship game. His embarrasment of Darby in the Super Bowl last season.

 

it goes without saying that he was a MUCH better blocker than Gonzalez ever was.

Edited March 25, 2019 by dave mcbride

[dave mcbride]

 

Chris Simms speaks truth here: https://www.nbcsports.com/video/new-england-patriots-rob-gronkowski-retires-after-nine-seasons?ls=pftvod

 

[K-9]

GOAT discussions, from athletes to zookeepers and everything in between, while sometimes good food for thought, are ALWAYS futile.   

 

Gronk is a first ballot HOFer because he dominated his position in his era. Just like every other first ballot HOF tightend before him. 

 

They all have a seat at the table of the greatest. 

 

And it is a round table.

[Spiderweb]

3 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Finally. Something we agree on. I don't understand how any self-respecting Bills fan can be here carrying water for him after what he pulled on Tre White.

 

Just disgusting.

 

 

Remember this was a top talent, a born Bills Fan, who's home team passed on drafting him twice if I recall. He"s had a simmering well disclosed anger for the Bills for ruining his dream of being a Buffalo Bill. Great talent, one of the best TE's to ever play the game. Yet he did take an uncharacteristic cheap shot at Tre White, one of the few DBs ever to really get under his skin.....

[iinii]

16 hours ago, 17years&waiting said:

 

Fixed it for you...

Much better

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

45 minutes ago, Spiderweb said:

 

Remember this was a top talent, a born Bills Fan, who's home team passed on drafting him twice if I recall. He"s had a simmering well disclosed anger for the Bills for ruining his dream of being a Buffalo Bill. Great talent, one of the best TE's to ever play the game. Yet he did take an uncharacteristic cheap shot at Tre White, one of the few DBs ever to really get under his skin.....

 

Still doesn't excuse him using his bionic arm to try and cripple a guy with a cheap shot to the neck.

 

Sure, it's "just one play" to paraphrase @Gugny, but man. That's just filthy.

 

[Gugny]

Just now, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Still doesn't excuse him using his bionic arm to try and cripple a guy with a cheap shot to the neck.

 

Sure, it's "just one play" to paraphrase @Gugny, but man. That's just filthy.

 

 

It was horrible.  Pissed me off as much as it did everyone else.  But it doesn't make Gronk a dirty player.  It made him a great player who had one very dirty hit.

 

And it's kind of Tre White's fault for laying there after the INT, anyway.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, Gugny said:

And it's kind of Tre White's fault for laying there after the INT, anyway.

 

...

 

what?

 

[st pete gogolak]

Now that the book is closed on Gronk, can we finally get a call on whether we did the right thing picking Troup ahead of Gronk?

[Gugny]

Just now, Joe in Winslow said:

 

...

 

what?

 

 

Watch the tape, dude.  He was kind of showboating.  Probably pissed Gronk off.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, Gugny said:

 

Watch the tape, dude.  He was kind of showboating.  Probably pissed Gronk off.

 

I can't even.

 

[Boatdrinks]

Not surprisingly the choad’s agent states he “ wouldn’t be surprised “ if he has a change of heart and returns to the team/game. And so it begins .... 

[Doc]

11 hours ago, SouthNYfan said:

Learn football.

Watch some games.

Seriously.

 

Get your head out of your ass.  The Cheaters don't need him to win games.

[Billznut]

He will be back. Count on it. 

[mannc]

12 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Get your head out of your ass.  The Cheaters don't need him to win games.

That’s funny...I could have sworn I’ve seen Gronkowski make a ton of huge catches that won (or helped win) games for the Pats.  I don’t doubt that they will win plenty of games next year without him, but that doesn’t mean he wasn’t great.

[Doc]

1 minute ago, mannc said:

That’s funny...I could have sworn I’ve seen Gronkowski make a ton of huge catches that won (or helped win) games for the Pats.  I don’t doubt that they will win plenty of games next year without him, but that doesn’t mean he wasn’t great.

 

I never said he didn't play great.  I'm saying that his presence didn't make much of a difference in terms of the Cheaters winning.

[mannc]

3 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I never said he didn't play great.  I'm saying that his presence didn't make much of a difference in terms of the Cheaters winning.

A statement that is impossible to prove, and which is directly refuted by (1) the endless winning that took place during the nine years that he played for the Pats, and (2) the fact that he made huge catch after huge catch to help them win actual games.  That happened; I saw it.

Edited March 25, 2019 by mannc

[dave mcbride]

12 hours ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

Moss played in 215 games, Jerry Rice played in 303 games and Gronk played in 115 games. A good part of being in the discussion of an all time great is longevity.

The greatest RB of all time retired at exactly the same age as Gronk. He played 118 games, but fewer than Gronk overall because the latter's postseason appearances.

Edited March 25, 2019 by dave mcbride

[John from Riverside]

Without reading through this monster of a thread I am going to hope that somebody posted the video of St. Gronk concussing our starter corner after a play.......

 

[Boatdrinks]

Barry Sanders retired on top with gas in the tank, and missed only 7 starts due to injury / other in his entire career. 

[mannc]

3 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Barry Sanders retired on top with gas in the tank, and missed only 7 starts due to injury / other in his entire career. 

How were Barry's postseason stats?

[Boatdrinks]

Just now, mannc said:

How were Barry's postseason stats?

The Lions were a terrible team, but that doesn’t detract from his greatness as a player. He was great, and durable. 

[SouthNYfan]

34 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Get your head out of your ass.  The Cheaters don't need him to win games.

 

How about you get your head out of your own ass.

 

"And yes, Brady and the Patriots won the Super Bowl two years ago without Gronkowski playing (coming from 28-3 in case you haven’t heard). Even with those games included, here are the splits for Brady with and without Gronkowski since the latter entered the league in 2010:

With Gronkowski: 113 games, 2771 of 4332 (65.5%), 33217 pass yards (7.85 YPA), 255 pass TDs, 55 INTs

Without Gronkowski: 30 games, 711 of 1182 (60.2%), 8198 pass yards, 51 pass TDs, 22 INTs

If we translate that to a per-16-game rate for each, we get the following:

With Gronkowski: 392 of 599, 4703 pass yards, 36 TD, 8 INT

Without Gronkowski: 379 of 630, 4372 pass yards, 27 TD, 12 INT

Okay, but it may be hard to put those numbers in context. The “With Gronkowski” numbers are basically identical to Aaron Rodgers since the start of his career. The “Without Gronkowski” numbers are similar to Ryan Tannehill, if he completed fewer passes but threw for slightly more touchdowns"

 

So Aaron Rodgers vs tannehill numbers with and without him on the field.

 

Maybe you should really do your research before you start running your mouth.

[mannc]

1 minute ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

How about you get your head out of your own ass.

 

"And yes, Brady and the Patriots won the Super Bowl two years ago without Gronkowski playing (coming from 28-3 in case you haven’t heard). Even with those games included, here are the splits for Brady with and without Gronkowski since the latter entered the league in 2010:

With Gronkowski: 113 games, 2771 of 4332 (65.5%), 33217 pass yards (7.85 YPA), 255 pass TDs, 55 INTs

Without Gronkowski: 30 games, 711 of 1182 (60.2%), 8198 pass yards, 51 pass TDs, 22 INTs

If we translate that to a per-16-game rate for each, we get the following:

With Gronkowski: 392 of 599, 4703 pass yards, 36 TD, 8 INT

Without Gronkowski: 379 of 630, 4372 pass yards, 27 TD, 12 INT

Okay, but it may be hard to put those numbers in context. The “With Gronkowski” numbers are basically identical to Aaron Rodgers since the start of his career. The “Without Gronkowski” numbers are similar to Ryan Tannehill, if he completed fewer passes but threw for slightly more touchdowns"

 

So Aaron Rodgers vs tannehill numbers with and without him on the field.

 

Maybe you should really do your research before you start running your mouth.

Excellent post.  But of course, anyone who actually watched the Pats play the past 9 seasons already knows that Gronk was easily the non-QB MVP on that team.  

3 hours ago, K-9 said:

GOAT discussions, from athletes to zookeepers and everything in between, while sometimes good food for thought, are ALWAYS futile.   

 

Gronk is a first ballot HOFer because he dominated his position in his era. Just like every other first ballot HOF tightend before him. 

 

They all have a seat at the table of the greatest. 

 

And it is a round table.

With regard to many positions, that's true.  I just don't think it's true in this case, just as it's not true with regard to head coaches...  

[Boatdrinks]

5 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

How about you get your head out of your own ass.

 

"And yes, Brady and the Patriots won the Super Bowl two years ago without Gronkowski playing (coming from 28-3 in case you haven’t heard). Even with those games included, here are the splits for Brady with and without Gronkowski since the latter entered the league in 2010:

With Gronkowski: 113 games, 2771 of 4332 (65.5%), 33217 pass yards (7.85 YPA), 255 pass TDs, 55 INTs

Without Gronkowski: 30 games, 711 of 1182 (60.2%), 8198 pass yards, 51 pass TDs, 22 INTs

If we translate that to a per-16-game rate for each, we get the following:

With Gronkowski: 392 of 599, 4703 pass yards, 36 TD, 8 INT

Without Gronkowski: 379 of 630, 4372 pass yards, 27 TD, 12 INT

Okay, but it may be hard to put those numbers in context. The “With Gronkowski” numbers are basically identical to Aaron Rodgers since the start of his career. The “Without Gronkowski” numbers are similar to Ryan Tannehill, if he completed fewer passes but threw for slightly more touchdowns"

 

So Aaron Rodgers vs tannehill numbers with and without him on the field.

 

Maybe you should really do your research before you start running your mouth.

Lifted directly from thebiglead.com. Yes , I see that you put it in quotes. Anyway, I think the point was not about stats, but that the team wins games without the player. Their winning begins and ends with the QB, and probably won’t change until they get weaker at that position. Hopefully that occurs and they don’t have a Colts like transition to an Andrew Luck. 

[mannc]

4 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Lifted directly from thebiglead.com. Yes , I see that you put it in quotes. Anyway, I think the point was not about stats, but that the team wins games without the player. Their winning begins and ends with the QB, and probably won’t change until they get weaker at that position. Hopefully that occurs and they don’t have a Colts like transition to an Andrew Luck. 

The bad news is the Pats got weaker at QB this past year but compensated for it by becoming the best running team in the league.  It’s a never-ending nightmare...

Edited March 25, 2019 by mannc

[Boatdrinks]

Just now, mannc said:

The bad news is they Pats got weaker at QB this past year but compensated for it by becoming the best running team in the league.  It’s a never-ending nightmare...

Not weak enough. It will be over when ( and only when) TB retires or his play is sub par. I don’t believe he will play as a Favre-like shell of himself. That would taint his legacy and his ego won’t allow it. A running game will mean very little at that time. It will all come down to the QB. While the nightmare may seem never ending, defining it as such is pure hyperbole. The epic length run is really just tied to one player’s highly improbable longevity. Barring a Luck- type scenario it will end. For football fans however, it has seemed to be a lifetime in hell , or perhaps purgatory. I truly cannot wait for it to reach its approaching nadir.