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IgotBILLStopay

D'haquille aka Duke Williams, Bills' newest WR better than any draft prospect

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Reminds me a little of a slow Chris Burkett.... If he and Reed got along that would have been a great tandem.

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Camp body at this point,  big, slow, unathletic, poor blocker. Good hands and high points the ball, unfortunately at 6'2" with only a 30" vertical leap his high point is lower than most. I hope he surprises me and exceeds expectations but people thinking the Bills have found their #1 and together with Jones and Foster, Josh Allen now has the weapons he needs is just laughable imo. The Bills still need to bring in a veteran in fa and draft one in the first 3 rnds. 

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4 hours ago, Logic said:

I was excited that the Bills signed Williams, and I have high hopes that he can find a way to make the roster and contribute. HOWEVER...

We need to temper our expectations a bit. All the jump-ball and high-point ability in the world won't do squat if he can't separate from defenders. For evidence of this phenomenon, go watch some James Hardy or Dez Lewis "highlights".

This guy can play.  He had problems but seems to have turned it around for the last couple of years.  Sometimes it takes a young guy a while to figure it out. Some never do.  He does what the Bills had hoped that Benjamin would do. He runs better than Benjamin (I know that ain't sayin' much).  The ability to separate is necessary either through speed, quickness, or running great patterns.  He should be an excellent complement to Foster, Jones, et al..  

 

We'll see what he does in camp and preseason.  The Bills have virtually nothing invested and nothing to lose.

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This is like deja vu all over again...

Edited by Mr. WEO

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I hope he turns into Calvin Johnson or Randy Moss.

 

Doesnt mean I don’t want At least two more WR’s added. 

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6 hours ago, IgotBILLStopay said:

Just closely watched these highlights. The guy is arguably a more complete receiver than anyone coming out of college this year. He has speed (why did he run only a 4.72 at the combine?), separation, elevation, ability to catch in traffic and is elusive enough to rack up YAC. Almost every throw he catches at its highest point (except for the one where he was unsighted and it hits his helmet - he still comes up with it). Enjoy!! Very Very underrated signing by the Bills - could have a shot at our #1 if he has really matured from his college days.

 

 

I didnt under rate it.  I said it was a great signing.  Dudes a beast.  Its only CFL but his stats are disgustingly good.

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6 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Yup.  If anyone can find us receivers, it’s the guys who put together Jordan Matthews, Zay Jones, Jeremy Kerley, Anquan Boldin, Kelvin Benjamin, etc.

 

i kid but man have they sucked At receiver evaluations.

 

 

The problem isn't with evaluating receivers so much as it was not putting many resources into receivers. The exception to that is Benjamin, but he made the difference in getting us to the playoffs in 2017 with a couple of good games.

 

Zay Jones may be an example of this in the future, but right now he's doing fine for where he is in his career. And he was brought in while Beane was still in Carolina.

 

The problem with Boldin wasn't a bad evaluation of talent. Benjamin, maybe, though it seems more like a problem at this point in his career. At times in the past, he's been very very good.

 

They haven't put many resources into receiver, particularly since Beane got here. And that's understandable. They had a team that had a ton of holes and in rebuilding and making sure they were going to get a possible franchise QB they created even more holes. They were always going to be unable to address some positions satisfactorily this early, particularly with the major cap problems the Whaley administration left them.

 

Worth noting also that you seem to have forgotten to have mentioned Robert Foster. Is that because he upsets the applecart of your theory that they suck at receiver evaluations? Again, without putting many resources into it, finding Foster seems to have been a really good move. So far, at least.

 

Starting now, they're going to need to address the area and put some real money and picks towards it. Dunno how it will work out, but I'm hopeful. On the other hand, I love taking a flier with Duke Williams but I'm not as positive about his prospects as some here are. Looks to me like he's not very fast or sudden, though I love how he goes up for the jump balls.

Edited by Thurman#1

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1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

This is like deja vu all over again...

 

What in Da'Rick are you talking about?

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I just hope he makes this team and contributes and opens the field for Josh Allen. I also think he brings blocking to the WR position on run downs with his size and aggressiveness. 

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5 hours ago, nickrage said:

Looks good in cut up

cfl is such a weird game though with all that movement presnap 

I watched the CFL highlight video carefully.  He was not always in motion presnap/getting a head start.  Even from a standing start, what stood out to me is that he knows how and when to position his body  to "get open".  He is beating guys in pretty tight coverage with body control rather than speed. 

 

I am in no way anointing this guy as a day 1 starter, but he does display an interesting skillset.

 

I'd be happy to see him as a situational #3 or an H--back.  Anything above that is gravy.  

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I certainly hope Williams turns out to be a big time find for the Bills...

 

But I doubt very much he'll be a more complete WR in the NFL than DK Metcalf...😎

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24 minutes ago, ChicagoRic said:

I watched the CFL highlight video carefully.  He was not always in motion presnap/getting a head start.  Even from a standing start, what stood out to me is that he knows how and when to position his body  to "get open".  He is beating guys in pretty tight coverage with body control rather than speed. 

 

I am in no way anointing this guy as a day 1 starter, but he does display an interesting skillset.

 

I'd be happy to see him as a situational #3 or an H--back.  Anything above that is gravy.  

I watched some video when he signed, and that's  what I saw, too.   When the ball arrives, he seems always to be in better position than the defender, and he always makes a solid play on the ball.  It's only the CFL, but he fights for the ball like Anquan Boldin.   If he succeeds, it will be because he's one tough cookie.  That's why I think he could be Hines Ward II.  And I think that's why McBeane wanted him.  

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Um, no. He doesn't have speed or separation. He's slow. That's his problem.

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4 hours ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

Probably a long shot to make the roster but ya never know.  

Especially once Kevin White is signed.........

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7 hours ago, Logic said:

We need to temper our expectations a bit. All the jump-ball and high-point ability in the world won't do squat if he can't separate from defenders. For evidence of this phenomenon, go watch some James Hardy or Dez Lewis "highlights".

 

Yes, he will probably need to work on beating the press, since so little of that is done in college and they can get a running start in the CFL, plus the CBs in the CFL are not NFL-caliber. But he is definitely an intriguing talent and if he works hard, who knows how good he could be. Plus, with his size and strength, he should definitely have the ability to beat the press, he just might need to work on the technique of it. Also, it was hard to tell from the highlights how good of a route runner he is, since so many of the catches were deep balls. So, that could be another thing he'll need to work on. You need to run precise routes in the NFL.

 

 

7 hours ago, racketmaster said:

I'm not sure he will be our number 1 wr but he will likely get a shot to play in the top 3. I have to assume that he looked around at NFL teams and decided to leave the CFL because he was going to get a legitimate chance to start with the Bills. I do like he body control and ability to catch contested passes. He clearly goes after and attacks the football. He might be a replacement for what the Bills thought they were going to get in Benjamin (a guy who is physical and will make contested catches presenting a bigger target in the red zone).

 

That said, Williams looks like he is a 4.7 speed guy. He is a thick body wr and does not appear to have a ton of speed. But that does not mean he cannot be useful. Dez Bryant could still make plays later in his career even after he had lost some speed and Dez was never known as a speed guy to begin with. I could see Williams taking over as a #2 with Robert Foster being more of the #1 threat. I would not mind this, especially if the Bills signed Humphries to play in the slot.

 

In the CFL highlights, speed does not look to be an issue for him. It looks like he has football or game speed, kind of like Josh Allen. They actually play faster on the field than their size or 40 times would have you believe. Granted, its a highlight reel and against CFL talent, but he routinely seems to get behind guys and there were a few plays where he was outrunning the defenders.

 

But, what I find really interesting is his hang time when going up for a ball. Its like he jumps too early for the pass, but then just hangs up there until it arrives, and sometimes kind of hitches again to actually snag the ball. He kind of forces the DBs to jump with him, but he can stay up there longer, so by the time he's grabbing the ball, the DBs are already on their way back down. And he seems to have great vision/concentration on the ball too.  

 

5 hours ago, 2018 Our Year For Sure said:

If I waa GM he wouldn't factor into my offseason plans. Just an extra possibility, not something I'm going to count on at all.

 

Couldn't agree more. How many times in the last 20 years have our GMs counted on something to happen with no backup plan? And when that player doesn't come through or gets injured, there is no other option. How many times have we gone into seasons saying, well If this and this and this happen, we could have a good season? No more IFs, we need plan B, plan C, and plan D. So, while Duke's signing is exciting because he seems to have a ton of talent, it shouldn't prevent the team from still drafting a WR somewhat high or signing good receivers in FA. If they all come through, great, then we're stacked. But, if one or more of them don't, then we'd still have other options. It won't be game over.

 

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1 hour ago, folz said:

 

Yes, he will probably need to work on beating the press, since so little of that is done in college and they can get a running start in the CFL, plus the CBs in the CFL are not NFL-caliber. But he is definitely an intriguing talent and if he works hard, who knows how good he could be. Plus, with his size and strength, he should definitely have the ability to beat the press, he just might need to work on the technique of it. Also, it was hard to tell from the highlights how good of a route runner he is, since so many of the catches were deep balls. So, that could be another thing he'll need to work on. You need to run precise routes in the NFL.

 

 

 

In the CFL highlights, speed does not look to be an issue for him. It looks like he has football or game speed, kind of like Josh Allen. They actually play faster on the field than their size or 40 times would have you believe. Granted, its a highlight reel and against CFL talent, but he routinely seems to get behind guys and there were a few plays where he was outrunning the defenders.

 

But, what I find really interesting is his hang time when going up for a ball. Its like he jumps too early for the pass, but then just hangs up there until it arrives, and sometimes kind of hitches again to actually snag the ball. He kind of forces the DBs to jump with him, but he can stay up there longer, so by the time he's grabbing the ball, the DBs are already on their way back down. And he seems to have great vision/concentration on the ball too.  

 

 

Couldn't agree more. How many times in the last 20 years have our GMs counted on something to happen with no backup plan? And when that player doesn't come through or gets injured, there is no other option. How many times have we gone into seasons saying, well If this and this and this happen, we could have a good season? No more IFs, we need plan B, plan C, and plan D. So, while Duke's signing is exciting because he seems to have a ton of talent, it shouldn't prevent the team from still drafting a WR somewhat high or signing good receivers in FA. If they all come through, great, then we're stacked. But, if one or more of them don't, then we'd still have other options. It won't be game over.

 

The only way to stay up in the air longer is to jump higher. Gravity works the same on everyone. His vertical leap was only 30 inches so there are a lot of pros who will jump higher and stay in the air longer than him. For comparison there were numerous guys over 300 lbs at last year's combine who jumped higher than him including Harrison Phillips, so I don't think he will 'hanging' in the air longer than NFL cbs and safeties.

    I think he uses his body well to win contested catches and that is his biggest strength. Whether he can do that against NFL competition remains to be seen. I am not against the signing, just not expecting as much as some others and hope to be pleasantly surprised if and when he becomes a good NFL player.

Edited by Turk71

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10 hours ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

Gotta keep ‘im separated

Great.  Now that song's in my head.

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11 hours ago, IgotBILLStopay said:

Just closely watched these highlights. The guy is arguably a more complete receiver than anyone coming out of college this year. He has speed (why did he run only a 4.72 at the combine?), separation, elevation, ability to catch in traffic and is elusive enough to rack up YAC. Almost every throw he catches at its highest point (except for the one where he was unsighted and it hits his helmet - he still comes up with it). Enjoy!! Very Very underrated signing by the Bills - could have a shot at our #1 if he has really matured from his college days.

 

 

 

Lets hope so and also hope we get great WRs as well

 

 

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That QB has a nice arm.

 

love those catches, its been a Looong time since we have had a WR pull in tough passes like that on a consistent basis.

 

love the multiple men in motion rule.

 

how big is that endzone !! It looks like 20 yds plus the angled section.

 

 

 

 

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14 hours ago, IgotBILLStopay said:

Just closely watched these highlights. The guy is arguably a more complete receiver than anyone coming out of college this year. He has speed (why did he run only a 4.72 at the combine?), separation, elevation, ability to catch in traffic and is elusive enough to rack up YAC. Almost every throw he catches at its highest point (except for the one where he was unsighted and it hits his helmet - he still comes up with it). Enjoy!! Very Very underrated signing by the Bills - could have a shot at our #1 if he has really matured from his college days.

 

 

I heard Duke is better suited for the big slot position . He doesn't have the separation skills to play on the outside to consistently beat top corners.

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15 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

You are completely underestimating how important separation is at the nfl level.  This dude costs nothing basically so it’s worth it but settle down a bit friend.

It is important but not as important with larger more aggressive WRs.  The good ones get seperation with their body.  

Edited by formerlyofCtown

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And we are short on William's right now so it fills a need

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14 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Yup.  If anyone can find us receivers, it’s the guys who put together Jordan Matthews, Zay Jones, Jeremy Kerley, Anquan Boldin, Kelvin Benjamin, etc.

 

i kid but man have they sucked At receiver evaluations.

 

I dunno...Jones is on the rise, Foster looks pretty good, and McKenzie was a good acquisition.  They've certainly tried to bring in guys for a look and it's not really their fault Matthews got injured or Benjamin re-injured his knee and never recovered.  You also can't ignore the QB situation when evaluating WR production.

 

Just a thought, but let's see what happens with the WRs this season now that a QB is entrenched and they're running the same system for the 2nd year in a row.

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9 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

The problem isn't with evaluating receivers so much as it was not putting many resources into receivers. The exception to that is Benjamin, but he made the difference in getting us to the playoffs in 2017 with a couple of good games.

 

Zay Jones may be an example of this in the future, but right now he's doing fine for where he is in his career. And he was brought in while Beane was still in Carolina.

 

The problem with Boldin wasn't a bad evaluation of talent. Benjamin, maybe, though it seems more like a problem at this point in his career. At times in the past, he's been very very good.

 

They haven't put many resources into receiver, particularly since Beane got here. And that's understandable. They had a team that had a ton of holes and in rebuilding and making sure they were going to get a possible franchise QB they created even more holes. They were always going to be unable to address some positions satisfactorily this early, particularly with the major cap problems the Whaley administration left them.

 

Worth noting also that you seem to have forgotten to have mentioned Robert Foster. Is that because he upsets the applecart of your theory that they suck at receiver evaluations? Again, without putting many resources into it, finding Foster seems to have been a really good move. So far, at least.

 

Starting now, they're going to need to address the area and put some real money and picks towards it. Dunno how it will work out, but I'm hopeful. On the other hand, I love taking a flier with Duke Williams but I'm not as positive about his prospects as some here are. Looks to me like he's not very fast or sudden, though I love how he goes up for the jump balls.

It’s hard to use Foster as an example of the Bills knowing how to evaluate WRs. They released him on Oct. 18. If Foster ends up being the real deal, the best I can say is that they got lucky that he didn’t get scooped up. 

 

He is so talented but they gave up on him in short time. It’s not like they had a lot of NFL quality WRs pushing him off the roster. 

 

Good on Foster for coming back the way he did, I just think it’s something that’s conveniently overlooked.

Edited by CommonCents

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