Solution to bad calls?

[Big Turk]

7 hours ago, HappyDays said:

Refereeing should be done from a central office with numerous camera angles for each game. Reviews would be quicker that way. A central office would have watched the PI twice and immediately called the penalty. Challenges would also go faster. Watch the slow motion replay 3 or 4 times and make a call. Some guy staring into a booth on the sideline is the most inefficient way possible.

 

They already make the call now from the central office.

[Alphadawg7]

6 hours ago, White Linen said:

 

The only thing left to determine with your solution is how many times can you challenge the calls you've described.  If it's unlimited the games would be incredibly long and if you limit them, you may not have a challenge left.  For example say the Saints didn't have a challenge left when that pass interference wasn't called?

 

It's a tough problem to fix. 

 

You missed it in my original post...not unlimited, what I suggested was to give coaches one more challenge per half in total.  So they will have 3 challenges per half to accommodate for some additional plays to potentially challenge.  So won't impact game that much.  Could limit the 3rd challenge flag to only be used on penalty or missed penalty challenges too.

[BillsFan1988]

11 hours ago, eball said:

 

C'mon, dude.  That's no longer an acceptable position given the technological world we live in.  There is literally NO reason not to eliminate egregious judgment errors by officials.

The NFL can defintely eliminate egregious calls if they wanted to. The thing is do they really want to. No matter what there will always be teams that they favor more then the others. Even if u can replay everything they will still find a way to mess it up.

[apuszczalowski]

I said it in a previous post, each game would get a crew in house sitting up in a booth with a bunch of camera angles of the game. They have refs on the field calling the game. If someone in the booth notices something missed, they buzz down to the head ref and the clock stops. Refs could then huddle and discuss, along with the crew in the booth and decide if it should be called. There would be no more coaches challenged, and no more replay like they have it now. All of it would be eliminated by having a crew upstairs watching different views and angles on screens.

 

It wont catch everything, and I dont think it should be used to call a penalty on someone who was completely out of the play and had no impact on it, but plays like the PI would be called from upstairs in case a ref missed it on the field.

 

Only problem I see happening, is the game gets slowed down by a bunch more penalties being called because they may catch more, which will lead to fans being upset that the pace of play is so much slower.

[Yav]

How about since the NFL is already monitoring the games from NYC, how about they just start doing their jobs and calling to the officials and correcting the calls. I don't think it's fair for coaches to have only 2 challenges to correct horrible calls by refs that aren't doing their jobs. 

 

If the NFL really cared they would start doing their jobs in the office and they call the stadiums and correct the calls right away in real time and no longer have to deal with refs controlling the games. 

 

In the end fans need to realize the NFL wanted the Rams in the Stupid Bowl to boost the LA market. 

[eball]

11 minutes ago, Yav said:

How about since the NFL is already monitoring the games from NYC, how about they just start doing their jobs and calling to the officials and correcting the calls. I don't think it's fair for coaches to have only 2 challenges to correct horrible calls by refs that aren't doing their jobs. 

 

If the NFL really cared they would start doing their jobs in the office and they call the stadiums and correct the calls right away in real time and no longer have to deal with refs controlling the games. 

 

In the end fans need to realize the NFL wanted the Rams in the Stupid Bowl to boost the LA market. 

 

You had me with you up until this last statement.  The Saints still had ample opportunity to win the game even after that horrendous call.  The league doesn't fix games -- they just have refs who occasionally make bad calls.

 

I am a 100% proponent of a "New York review" team, similar to what they do in Toronto for the NHL.  Take it off the on-field refs completely.

[CodeMonkey]

20 hours ago, HappyDays said:

Refereeing should be done from a central office with numerous camera angles for each game. Reviews would be quicker that way. A central office would have watched the PI twice and immediately called the penalty. Challenges would also go faster. Watch the slow motion replay 3 or 4 times and make a call. Some guy staring into a booth on the sideline is the most inefficient way possible.

Agree.  They could also tell the on field ref where to spot the ball.  I always chuckle when it's 3rd or 4th and 1, run right up the gut so it's just a sea of humanity and the refs can't even see the ball carrier.  They spot the ball almost randomly, then bring out the chains to see if it's a first down.  Hilarious

[apuszczalowski]

I think having a crew from a central location in NY might be better financially for the league, but it would be best to have a crew in a pressbox at the stadium, they could communicate quicker to the crew on the field and would waste any more time.

 

As for things like holds, your never going to get that fixed, theres going to always be missed calls on things like that. The most tou can hope for is them getting the obvious ones called. For spotting the ball, I'm sure it would be possible to install something like a chip in it and in the field that can track its location. They could do the same in hockey to figure out if a puck crosses the goal line (and even blue line) and in baseball for an accurate strike zone.

56 minutes ago, CodeMonkey said:

Agree.  They could also tell the on field ref where to spot the ball.  I always chuckle when it's 3rd or 4th and 1, run right up the gut so it's just a sea of humanity and the refs can't even see the ball carrier.  They spot the ball almost randomly, then bring out the chains to see if it's a first down.  Hilarious

That's always funny to see, the ref places the ball where he assumes it should be, then they bring out something to try and get an accurate read on whether that guessed location is a first down.

 

That's like a carpenter cutting a piece of wood where he thinks it should be cut, then taking out a tape measure to see if he was correct.......

[row_33]

21 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said:

f places the ball where he assumes it should be, then they bring out something to try and get an accurate read on whether that guessed location is a first down.

 

That's like a carpenter cutting a piece of wood where he thinks it should be cut, then taking out a tape measure to see if he was correct.......

 

the whole thing is just a shambles, they should stop playing until we can perfect every aspect of it....

 

 

but if the Chiefs had won, all these crybabies would be prancing around cooing about how the NFL is fair and just

 

 

[frostbitmic]

Seems there are fewer problems with the officiating of college games. The NFL needs to either hire those guys and or use the NCAA rule books. As it is now, the shield is tarnished.

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

5 minutes ago, row_33 said:

the whole thing is just a shambles, they should stop playing until we can perfect every aspect of it....

but if the Chiefs had won, all these crybabies would be prancing around cooing about how the NFL is fair and just

you seem to get off on prancing around here calling pissed off fans crybabies. your above it all takes here are pretty ridiculous because as much as you believe you are, you're not. get over yourself, if fans want to be pissed off over bad calls that affect their team, I'd like to see you call them crybabies in person, to their face. 

 

 

[row_33]

you stop a home crowd from blowing whistles all fricking game, and being so proud of it

 

 

36 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

you seem to get off on prancing around here calling pissed off fans crybabies. your above it all takes here are pretty ridiculous because as much as you believe you are, you're not. get over yourself, if fans want to be pissed off over bad calls that affect their team, I'd like to see you call them crybabies in person, to their face. 

 

 

 

and you get off on my getting off....

 

isn't it rich?

aren't we a pair?

 

Edited January 23, 2019 by row_33

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

16 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

Yea... great post

Glad you liked it!  ?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

23 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Theee are so many complaints about bad calls in the NFL, and many say we should rely more on technology to overcome these.  But my concern is you could conceivably look at any given play in the NFL and pick out a call that should have been made.

 

How about adding a minimum two more officials on the field (I'd put them in the defensive backfield) along with allowing the guy in the press box to make a call if he sees something.  Give each coach one challenge  regardless of the type of call.  If you add officials in the back you have two more sets of eyes back there, and it seems the calls that are by and large screamed about occur primarily back in that area.  The guy in the box can catch the most egregious holding.  And coaches still can challenge truly bad calls.

 

And once this is done, accept the fact that in any game like football there will be human error and just accept that as part of the game.

 

I think the real problem is lack of feedback and accountability to refs.

 

As I understand it, both teams have the ability to review the game afterwards and contact the league office with a list of calls they question or would like explained.

But there is no systematic review and feedback to refs or attempt to assess the consistency of ref'ing from crew to crew.

 

I think if a league group reviewed games (or perhaps a representative number of games) and gave feedback, and the feedback had consequences (like suggested earlier in the game, some kind of feedback system where enough bad calls or missed calls and you're out), ref'ing would improve.

 

I also think that if the league really wants to get on top of the head-shots thing, any play where a coach or player sees a head shot should be subject to review and if review determines a head shot, penalize.

 

 

21 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

Nonsense. Don't you think they would have called a discreet hold or TWO if they were really hellbent on screwing the Saints? 

If it were to be done, you'd probably never know it.

 

I think it was a deliberate non-call but not necessarily because they were "throwing" the game or favoring one team.

I think the crew had made a deliberate decision to try to let things play out.

 

The blow to the head should have been called though.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, CodeMonkey said:

Agree.  They could also tell the on field ref where to spot the ball.  I always chuckle when it's 3rd or 4th and 1, run right up the gut so it's just a sea of humanity and the refs can't even see the ball carrier.  They spot the ball almost randomly, then bring out the chains to see if it's a first down.  Hilarious

 

That aspect of the game has always puzzled me since I was a small child watching with my Grandpa.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

That aspect of the game has always puzzled me since I was a small child watching with my Grandpa.

Isn’t that one of the divine mysteries of the Catholic faith?  (Proper spotting of the football)

Edited January 23, 2019 by Ridgewaycynic2013

[row_33]

24 minutes ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

Isn’t that one of the divine mysteries of the Catholic faith?  (Proper spotting of the football)

 

you have to to just go along with things like placement and measuring for a first down

 

 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

2 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

you have to to just go along with things like placement and measuring for a first down

 

 

Yep...just like the mysteries of the faith!  ?

 

[row_33]

11 minutes ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

Yep...just like the mysteries of the faith!  ?

 

 

or dealing with one's significant other?

 

[White Linen]

12 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

You missed it in my original post...not unlimited, what I suggested was to give coaches one more challenge per half in total.  So they will have 3 challenges per half to accommodate for some additional plays to potentially challenge.  So won't impact game that much.  Could limit the 3rd challenge flag to only be used on penalty or missed penalty challenges too.

 

Sorry I missed that part but my second point still stands.  If a coach is out of challenges the Saints debacle could happen again.  

 

It's a tough issue to fix. 

[row_33]

12 minutes ago, White Linen said:

 

Sorry I missed that part but my second point still stands.  If a coach is out of challenges the Saints debacle could happen again.  

 

It's a tough issue to fix. 

 

just go out there to play your best and hopefully bad calls even up

 

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

13 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

You missed it in my original post...not unlimited, what I suggested was to give coaches one more challenge per half in total.  So they will have 3 challenges per half to accommodate for some additional plays to potentially challenge.  So won't impact game that much.  Could limit the 3rd challenge flag to only be used on penalty or missed penalty challenges too.

 

...rules keep getting more complex.....how about "Zebra OTA's/TC" annually?....top to bottom review of existing rules and more in-depth analysis of the newer ones....film review of bad calls and why they were bad......maybe even add a few more on-field officials for extra eyes...big problem though is this would cost money and I don't see how Owners/NFL could afford it.....

[row_33]

13 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...rules keep getting more complex.....how about "Zebra OTA's/TC" annually?....top to bottom review of existing rules and more in-depth analysis of the newer ones....film review of bad calls and why they were bad......maybe even add a few more on-field officials for extra eyes...big problem though is this would cost money and I don't see how Owners/NFL could afford it.....

 

 

Force replays back to real time speeds, you do nobody a favour breaking things down into fractions of a second and holding people responsible for it

 

looks like a bright future who watch football SOLELY to whine about the refs, good times ahead

 

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 minute ago, row_33 said:

 

 

Force replays back to real time speeds, you do nobody a favour breaking things down into fractions of a second and holding people responsible for it

 

looks like a bright future who watch football SOLELY to whine about the refs, good times ahead

 

 

 

...DEAD on......look at the speed and complexity of the game......allowing QB's 5 seconds for reads/progressions is an unheard of luxury....think I read Brady gets the ball off in 2.61 seconds.....Josh Allen was around 3.7 seconds....officials are faced with the same speed to make split second decisions.......should we replay the sport to death?.....greedy NFL may drool over more commercial spots while destroying the sport.....will there still be blatantly obvious blown calls like Robey-Coleman?...of course....it's the human element......so maybe you increase the size of the officiating crew to help mitigate......

[Yav]

5 hours ago, eball said:

 

You had me with you up until this last statement.  The Saints still had ample opportunity to win the game even after that horrendous call.  The league doesn't fix games -- they just have refs who occasionally make bad calls.

 

I am a 100% proponent of a "New York review" team, similar to what they do in Toronto for the NHL.  Take it off the on-field refs completely.

I think the NFL is delighted to have the Rams in the Stupid Bowl because it's the LA market and it's going to generate a lot of sales for merchandise. 

 

I don't understand why the NFL can't figure out how to get GPS tracking into the ball. It would make spotting the ball easier, it would also help with determining if a ball crosses the end zone. There's got to be a way to add that to the inside of a ball without affecting it. 

[Alphadawg7]

2 hours ago, White Linen said:

 

Sorry I missed that part but my second point still stands.  If a coach is out of challenges the Saints debacle could happen again.  

 

It's a tough issue to fix. 

 

Thats the case with any challenges.  They are already limited.  For instance, instead of PI on that play, say the WR catches the ball..but in replay, its not really a catch but Rams are out of challenges.  Tough cookies, they are stuck with refs call even though it was clearly not a catch, refs just didn't see it hit ground.

 

Thats the nature of challenges and having a limited amount.  You could literally challenge every single play if you wanted in terms of spotting the ball, holding, hands to the face, etc.  It would break the game.  

 

Giving them a limited number of challenges puts some control in their hands without breaking the game.  Challenging every play is not a viable option.  But this at least can help in a lot of these situations.  

[SinceThe70s]

4 hours ago, row_33 said:

 

 

Force replays back to real time speeds, you do nobody a favour breaking things down into fractions of a second and holding people responsible for it

 

looks like a bright future who watch football SOLELY to whine about the refs, good times ahead

 

 

 

That's a really sensible idea. I don't think the masses - who have no tolerance for human error by the refs - would go for it. 

[WhyteDwarf]

I'd like to see replay removed completely for 5 seasons, and assess if we really need it at all. I hate it, ruins the game.  Human officials = errors, get over it or move to a bunch of sensors on the players and the ball and let an AI officiate the game.

[Tenhigh]

On 1/22/2019 at 5:13 PM, HappyDays said:

Refereeing should be done from a central office with numerous camera angles for each game. Reviews would be quicker that way. A central office would have watched the PI twice and immediately called the penalty. Challenges would also go faster. Watch the slow motion replay 3 or 4 times and make a call. Some guy staring into a booth on the sideline is the most inefficient way possible.

I had a similar idea about refereeing. I pictured a scenario where every ref has a counterpart in the booth watching from his body cam and the live game feed, who can overrule or instruct the field ref to throw a flag. 

[frostbitmic]

Solution to bad calls .... make all bad calls beneficial to the patriots.

Edited January 24, 2019 by frostbitmic

[That_Guy]

i'm all for replacing the refs with robots and sensors and lasers and IR and cameras and computers.  make those penalties and close-calls black & white with decisions in nanoseconds versus commercial break lengths of time.

 

not gonna happen any time soon because it would cost a hell of a lot and take a long time to develop and implement and perfect so i guess i'm fine with humans for now.

[Nanker]

I laugh at the Pats*** fans around me saying they “feel bad” for the Saints and their fans because of that (non) call at the goal line. 

 

They're mute about the Raiders and their fans about the “Tuck” ruling that jobbed Oakland and sent the Brady bunch to their first SB. Prior to that that team lost to the mighty Bears by the worst margin in SB history. 

[row_33]

On 1/23/2019 at 10:07 PM, SinceThe70s said:

 

That's a really sensible idea. I don't think the masses - who have no tolerance for human error by the refs - would go for it. 

 

Baseball: the call at first is "watch the baserunner's foot against the sound of the ball hitting the glove"

 

OH NO WAIT!!!!!! there is that 1/10000th of a second where the ball enters the glove so the sound isn't precise by computer reanimation

 

give us all a ***** break please

 

 

[apuszczalowski]

I do think that technology, and fantasy football are making this seem like a worse problem then it really is

 

Fantasy football- more people are watching and caring about more games because of their fantasy team. Before a blown call may have only affected and angered that team and their fans, now you have tons more getting angered because it could have affected their fantasy game

 

Technology - no with so many more camera angles, better resolution and close up capabilities, fans are getting views of plays that they never had before. You used to have a couple camera angles that you saw on you 20" color TV in your living room. Now theres dozens of angles shown I distantly in high definition on tour TV and on giant screens in the stadium with close ups. Of course this missed call was obvious from even an old 8" black and white TV, but people get upset over missed calls that require them to zoom in on one angle and watch it frame by frame.