row_33 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Something to watch for in the background. http://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/id/25776964 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 11 minutes ago, row_33 said: Something to watch for in the background. http://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/id/25776964 I have been beating this drum for a while. Football will drastically diminish or go away entirely because it becomes too expensive to insure for schools and municipalities. Sure there will be some drop because more parents won't want their kids to play given the CTE issue. But eventually there will be hugely won court cases, and insurance companies will make it so expensive for middle america and below, that football won't even be an option for a lot of kids. Not without a hefty price tag at least. Even so, those white collar areas will have to heavily compete with sports like row/crew, hockey, lacrosse, etc. People won't stop playing the sport in large numbers because people are running from the head injury risk. Insurance companies will make that decision for them in a lot of places. I am fairly confident in saying that my grand kids most likely won't grow up playing football or even with the NFL. I am in my early 30's and no kids. Probably 40 years at least from being a grandpa. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 self insure hold harmless clauses 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjv001 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Football played today is very different from that played in the '50s through the '90s. I foresee, in the very near future, the next major change will be the outlawing of the three-point stance. Unless by some miracle technology can overcome CTE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 16 minutes ago, Mango said: I have been beating this drum for a while. Football will drastically diminish or go away entirely because it becomes too expensive to insure for schools and municipalities. Sure there will be some drop because more parents won't want their kids to play given the CTE issue. But eventually there will be hugely won court cases, and insurance companies will make it so expensive for middle america and below, that football won't even be an option for a lot of kids. Not without a hefty price tag at least. Even so, those white collar areas will have to heavily compete with sports like row/crew, hockey, lacrosse, etc. People won't stop playing the sport in large numbers because people are running from the head injury risk. Insurance companies will make that decision for them in a lot of places. I am fairly confident in saying that my grand kids most likely won't grow up playing football or even with the NFL. I am in my early 30's and no kids. Probably 40 years at least from being a grandpa. This topic has been discussed, from Day 1, by everyone's favorite radio host: Mike Schopp. He brought it up again a few days ago for the first time in a while. He and you are right. This is not going to happen overnight. It will be a slow, cultural shift. Like the slow shift going from "colored drinking fountains" to the average American thinking that policy is insane, stupid, and disgusting. That didn't happen overnight. And the thing is, the segment of society that will be able to afford the high costs of football is not the segment playing football anyway, for the most part. They are doing other things. So the long term future of football, as we know it, is definitely uncertain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helpmenow Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Flag football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted January 21, 2019 Author Share Posted January 21, 2019 33 minutes ago, Mango said: I have been beating this drum for a while. Football will drastically diminish or go away entirely because it becomes too expensive to insure for schools and municipalities. Sure there will be some drop because more parents won't want their kids to play given the CTE issue. But eventually there will be hugely won court cases, and insurance companies will make it so expensive for middle america and below, that football won't even be an option for a lot of kids. Not without a hefty price tag at least. Even so, those white collar areas will have to heavily compete with sports like row/crew, hockey, lacrosse, etc. People won't stop playing the sport in large numbers because people are running from the head injury risk. Insurance companies will make that decision for them in a lot of places. I am fairly confident in saying that my grand kids most likely won't grow up playing football or even with the NFL. I am in my early 30's and no kids. Probably 40 years at least from being a grandpa. in the late 70s high schools in Ontario were put in the grind over helmet insurance, the concern was for spinal cord injuries back then, how little we knew what was coming. in addition the school bus insurance skyrocketed, remember a beat up old bus for high school sports (and driving the elderly to church on Sunday) A good read, something to file away as it looms larger. A pro athlete is an employee and if they played one game in the state of California they are entitled to a lot of workers comp options.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 This is overblown. Even if tons of schools stop having a football program, do you think any of those southern schools will stop? In many of those areas high school football is bigger than any other sport, including college and NFL football. They'll pay what it takes to keep the programs going, and have plenty of boosters and doners to ensure it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted January 21, 2019 Author Share Posted January 21, 2019 10 minutes ago, MJS said: This is overblown. Even if tons of schools stop having a football program, do you think any of those southern schools will stop? In many of those areas high school football is bigger than any other sport, including college and NFL football. They'll pay what it takes to keep the programs going, and have plenty of boosters and doners to ensure it. there will be nobody to insure players for brain injuries especially for 30 years down the road Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjv001 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 8 minutes ago, MJS said: This is overblown. Even if tons of schools stop having a football program, do you think any of those southern schools will stop? In many of those areas high school football is bigger than any other sport, including college and NFL football. They'll pay what it takes to keep the programs going, and have plenty of boosters and doners to ensure it. Why southern schools? Do you know of a difference that people in the south have about their children vs other parts of the country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Thats because insurance agency's are nothing but crooks. All they want is to take your money and then not cover what they are supposed to . Nothing but legalized extortion forced on us by our worthless government. 2 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted January 21, 2019 Author Share Posted January 21, 2019 11 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: Thats because insurance agency's are nothing but crooks. All they want is to take your money and then not cover what they are supposed to . Nothing but legalized extortion forced on us by our worthless government. the fear is another asbestos fallout situation can't blame the insurance companies if they are going to be held responsible for every illness a former football player gets and blames it on playing the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark80 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 (edited) Interesting. Every once in a while ESPN still does some actual journalistic reporting, this is one of those occasions. I think there has to be some inherent risk here on the parts of the athletes. The level of their extreme compensation in comparison to the rest of the normal population should inherently cover some of those risk IMO. Edited January 21, 2019 by Mark80 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hemma Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 If rodeo clowns can get insurance, I’m sure NFL owners will figure out something for the players. I can understand High schools having a tough time, though. https://www.eqgroup.com/rodeo-event-liability-insurance/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 9 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: Thats because insurance agency's are nothing but crooks. All they want is to take your money and then not cover what they are supposed to . Nothing but legalized extortion forced on us by our worthless government. That’s a reasonable opinion. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted January 21, 2019 Author Share Posted January 21, 2019 14 minutes ago, Mark80 said: Interesting. Every once in a while ESPN still does some actual journalistic reporting, this is one of those occasions. I think there has to be some inherent risk here on the parts of the athletes. The level of their extreme compensation in comparison to the rest of the normal population should inherently cover some of those risk IMO. We all say that, and everyone has known smoking is hazardous to one's health (officially announced in the early 1960s), but when people get sick they sue everyone they can shake a stick at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zonabb Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 1 hour ago, papazoid said: self insure hold harmless clauses Yeah, that'll work and keep everyone playing. Ask a parent to a) buy their own insurance and b) hold leagues and schools that organize it harmless will drive out players. Very GOP solution. Any other great ideas, like maybe roofers paying for their own insurance and hold their employers harmless? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 They have to prove what cte is caused by in the first place. And figure out how common it really is. Then the insurers will come back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, row_33 said: the fear is another asbestos fallout situation can't blame the insurance companies if they are going to be held responsible for every illness a former football player gets and blames it on playing the game too bad, that's there job. They have no problem screwing us. Edited January 21, 2019 by Buffalo Barbarian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted January 21, 2019 Author Share Posted January 21, 2019 13 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: too bad, that's there job. They have no problem screwing us. not sure if you have a RIGHT to health insurance for playing football the fear is 30 years down the road, now that ex-players with Parkinsons are blaming it all on football and suing you have a RIGHT to be offered auto insurance up here, but your premium may be $100,000 a year a friend was into $40,000 for his insurance due to his lead-foot, he got that deal because his father was a biggie in the industry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Just now, row_33 said: not sure if you have a RIGHT to health insurance for playing football the fear is 30 years down the road, now that ex-players with Parkinsons are blaming it all on football and suing you have a RIGHT to be offered auto insurance up here, but your premium may be $100,000 a year its not a right , its paid for. I also shouldn't be forced to buy it - that is extortion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted January 21, 2019 Author Share Posted January 21, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: its not a right , its paid for. I also shouldn't be forced to buy it - that is extortion. a pro athlete is an employee, as opposed to Pop Warner and NCAA players it adds another dimension to workers comp and coverage for employees give it a five minute skim if you have any interest, i was reminded of a few things since my last work on insurance investigations... Edited January 21, 2019 by row_33 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAinLack. Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Helpmenow said: Flag football Madden Football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted January 21, 2019 Author Share Posted January 21, 2019 10 minutes ago, TAinLA said: Madden Football is that where you learn to fake-work the clock down to 13 seconds and then blame the pros for leaving 80 on the clock when scoring a go-ahead TD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 1 hour ago, row_33 said: Something to watch for in the background. http://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/id/25776964 I’m sure no one will figure out how to sustain this $20 billion industry. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted January 21, 2019 Author Share Posted January 21, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: I’m sure no one will figure out how to sustain this $20 billion industry. ? that's kind of blase about $20billion, it's all leveraged to the hilt.... nobody will insure it down the road it will wipe out football below the pro level without insurance Edited January 21, 2019 by row_33 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 We write 9 of the teams through our agency. We have the Saints in our office and meeting with the Chiefs next week. This article is a little overblown. There aren’t many players but there are still some and that’s where they all end up (Berkeley still covers head injuries). That’s the umbrella market to use. The league encourages teams to carry a $100M umbrella. Most carry somewhere between $50M & $200M (Saints carry $75m). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted January 21, 2019 Author Share Posted January 21, 2019 13 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: We write 9 of the teams through our agency. We have the Saints in our office and meeting with the Chiefs next week. This article is a little overblown. There aren’t many players but there are still some and that’s where they all end up (Berkeley still covers head injuries). That’s the umbrella market to use. The league encourages teams to carry a $100M umbrella. Most carry somewhere between $50M & $200M (Saints carry $75m). thanks!!! and below the NFL ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAinLack. Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 19 minutes ago, row_33 said: is that where you learn to fake-work the clock down to 13 seconds and then blame the pros for leaving 80 on the clock when scoring a go-ahead TD? oddly yes, but no one gets hurt, except the TV - when someone throws the remote at it after losing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted January 21, 2019 Author Share Posted January 21, 2019 9 minutes ago, TAinLA said: oddly yes, but no one gets hurt, except the TV - when someone throws the remote at it after losing. i see... i guess with perfect hindsight a team could have shaved 30 seconds off the clock before giving it back to Tom, but there are a ton of real factors involved and lots of really improbable disasters can suddenly arise... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 12 minutes ago, row_33 said: thanks!!! and below the NFL ? The NFL handles the work comp (I think for all teams). So the umbrella is sitting over the employers liability portion of the comp (as well as the GL and auto). We write the GL, cyber, crime, $75m umbrella, employment practices (tough placement for that too), auto and some property for the Saints. It’s about $1.1M in premium which really is quite cheap. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: We write 9 of the teams through our agency. We have the Saints in our office and meeting with the Chiefs next week. This article is a little overblown. There aren’t many players but there are still some and that’s where they all end up (Berkeley still covers head injuries). That’s the umbrella market to use. The league encourages teams to carry a $100M umbrella. Most carry somewhere between $50M & $200M (Saints carry $75m). Good to know. Seems the sports media is intent on taking down tackle football, which is odd considering it's such a huge source of income. I don't understand where the self-righteousness comes from. Safety is paramount and this isn't the first time the game has received so much attention for injuries. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2014/05/29/teddy-roosevelt-helped-save-football-with-a-white-house-meeting-in-1905/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.45d6427d5e76 Edited January 21, 2019 by BillsVet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 1 hour ago, row_33 said: We all say that, and everyone has known smoking is hazardous to one's health (officially announced in the early 1960s), but when people get sick they sue everyone they can shake a stick at. People can sue all they want, doesn't mean they are going to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted January 21, 2019 Author Share Posted January 21, 2019 26 minutes ago, Mark Vader said: People can sue all they want, doesn't mean they are going to win. it kinda does when the victim class gets enough power... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 3 hours ago, papazoid said: self insure hold harmless clauses Exactly; become an ERISA compliant "pool" type plan funded by the proceeds of the TV packages and potentially additional fees assessed as part of each player's contract, and cut out the middleman so to speak. As for the college/high school/youth leagues, that's another matter however. 1 hour ago, Mark Vader said: People can sue all they want, doesn't mean they are going to win. Sometimes the "win" comes from entering into a settlement where the deep pocket(s) cough up enough to cut off their liability exposure risk and costs of litigation--merits of the case itself may or may not have as much to do with it, sad to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted January 21, 2019 Author Share Posted January 21, 2019 15 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said: Exactly; become an ERISA compliant "pool" type plan funded by the proceeds of the TV packages and potentially additional fees assessed as part of each player's contract, and cut out the middleman so to speak. As for the college/high school/youth leagues, that's another matter however. Sometimes the "win" comes from entering into a settlement where the deep pocket(s) cough up enough to cut off their liability exposure risk and costs of litigation--merits of the case itself may or may not have as much to do with it, sad to say. so just snap your fingers and BAM it is solved what about the NFL creatively denying liability Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 7 minutes ago, row_33 said: so just snap your fingers and BAM it is solved what about the NFL creatively denying liability Oh don't get me wrong--many attorneys will make a boatload of cash over many years along the way to iron out the contractual niceties this would take, and as for denial of liability, well, that's usually the first insurance defense mechanism to pursue regardless of which insurer you want to reference--how would it be that much different? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted January 21, 2019 Author Share Posted January 21, 2019 10 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said: Oh don't get me wrong--many attorneys will make a boatload of cash over many years along the way to iron out the contractual niceties this would take, and as for denial of liability, well, that's usually the first insurance defense mechanism to pursue regardless of which insurer you want to reference--how would it be that much different? thanks for your input, much appreciated, bears keeping an eye on over the next few years friends think football will go the way of boxing and horse racing over the next decade 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, row_33 said: thanks for your input, much appreciated, bears keeping an eye on over the next few years friends think football will go the way of boxing and horse racing over the next decade What do you think is, or are, the most likely candidates to replace it as the top of the proverbial mountain in the sports landscape? Some might say soccer, with growing demographic shifts inclined to push that along, along with player safety concerns (here in Atlanta, it's been quite something to witness the growth/crowds present for the brand new Atlanta United franchise that just won the MLS cup to boot). Could baseball mount a serious comeback? The people must always have "bread and circuses" to keep them full and entertained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted January 21, 2019 Author Share Posted January 21, 2019 15 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said: What do you think is, or are, the most likely candidates to replace it as the top of the proverbial mountain in the sports landscape? Some might say soccer, with growing demographic shifts inclined to push that along, along with player safety concerns (here in Atlanta, it's been quite something to witness the growth/crowds present for the brand new Atlanta United franchise that just won the MLS cup to boot). Could baseball mount a serious comeback? The people must always have "bread and circuses" to keep them full and entertained. hmmmm... maybe a disappearance of actually watching sporting events for 3-4 hours at a clip? just put robots out there so people can play with their iPhones non-stop at the game and make a bet every 10 seconds? soccer is a drag mostly, you can't force a superior team to care out there is they don't feel like it for 75 minutes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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