Mel Kiper Mocks — 1.0 DT Rashan Gary 2.0 DK Metcalf

[Steve O]

2 minutes ago, Woodman19 said:

Still not as bad as missing out on a Hall of Fame player Because you were trying to fill an immediate need.  I wonder how many teams regret drafting Rodgers with hindsight.

That would be 23 teams that regret NOT drafting him. If memory serves. And I'm sure at least 5 of the 11 that didn't draft Sapp regret it. Pretty sure there was something about a positive pot test, could have been something else. 

[BuffaloHokie13]

17 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Isn’t that kind of the point though on why a mock right now is mostly worthless?  

Hurst's situation is pretty rare. I don't know that the mocks are worthless just because circumstances change. If it's done well it still provides insight into pieces that teams across the league need and can generally give casual fans an idea of when they can expect a player's name to be announced.

[Steve O]

1 hour ago, Tatonka68 said:

Bills strategy is to sign and draft only players whose last name is Williams.

New regime, new strategy. We now draft only players named Josh Allen with our first pick. After that, BPA.

Edited January 18, 2019 by Steve O

[CuddyDark]

IDK if I like this pick. If he's 6'6 he'd be better at End for the Bills style of defense.

[YoloinOhio]

For those complaining about mock drafts ...

 

they are simply a discussion point, especially in January. This is also version 1.0, it will change several times - after FA, after the combine, etc.  it is one of many. They obviously evolve from now until April. They aren’t intended to always be “right” - everyone is just guessing. Some find that to be fun exercise.  Also, no need to take it so seriously, it’s just a discussion point to see what the draft analysts think about the players and the team needs. Some people aren’t into CFB and don’t know a lot about the players, this is a way to dive into draft season and discuss them. 

 

If you hate mock drafts, or the person who did the mock draft, simply don’t click on the thread just to say they suck or he sucks. Both are in the thread title to let you know what it’s about. Respectfully? It’s draft season and that means mock draft season . Just move on if you don’t want to discuss the mock draft in the title instead of complaining that people are discussing the mock draft in the thread. Please and thank you. 

Edited January 18, 2019 by YoloinOhio

[Alphadawg7]

22 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Hurst's situation is pretty rare. I don't know that the mocks are worthless just because circumstances change. If it's done well it still provides insight into pieces that teams across the league need and can generally give casual fans an idea of when they can expect a player's name to be announced.

 

I get that, but Kiper is also especially bad at that and even worse this early in the process.  He’s a blow hard who pushes his ideas that are almost always wrong.  

 

Case in point, two guys he had is taking went 30th and 5th round.  And while Hurst going 5th round due to a medical issue discovered during combine is a rare occurrence that made the discrepancy so big, it’s also evidence of why pre combine mocks have little reliable info.  

 

I will also admit I find anything from Kiper as worthless, so I have a negative biased about anything he says out the gate.  He’s a blow hard who is wrong like 95% of the time on everyone and everything but gets paid a ton to keep blowing, hard.  Lol

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I get that, but Kiper is also especially bad at that and even worse this early in the process.  He’s a blow hard who pushes his ideas that are almost always wrong.  

 

Case in point, two guys he had is taking went 30th and 5th round.  And while Hurst going 5th round due to a medical issue discovered during combine is a rare occurrence that made the discrepancy so big, it’s also evidence of why pre combine mocks have little reliable info.  

 

I will also admit I find anything from Kiper as worthless, so I have a negative biased about anything he says out the gate.  He’s a blow hard who is wrong like 95% of the time on everyone and everything but gets paid a ton to keep blowing, hard.  Lol

 

I forget where I read it, but none of these guys have any idea what they are doing.  Teams actually have their draft boards put together prior to the Senior Bowl.  What is really happening is teams are using the Senior Bowl and Combine to confirm what they thought they already knew.  So long as there are no serious injuries or personal issues guys stay pat.  Teams only move off a guy if there is something seriously wrong.  On the other hand, no body is "rising" because he ran a really fast 40 at the combine or benched a ton of reps.   

 

What is really happening when guys "rise" or "fall" is the draft "experts" are starting to pick up on what teams are thinking.  The combine is important because that is when the draft experts start getting inside info into what is going on inside the team organizations, due in part to the massive media-scouting exposure.  Thats why the mocks change so radically.  

 

The whole thing is a massive racket.  It only works because fans are football starved and are looking for any drama they can get.  

[row_33]

18 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I get that, but Kiper is also especially bad at that and even worse this early in the process.  He’s a blow hard who pushes his ideas that are almost always wrong.  

 

Case in point, two guys he had is taking went 30th and 5th round.  And while Hurst going 5th round due to a medical issue discovered during combine is a rare occurrence that made the discrepancy so big, it’s also evidence of why pre combine mocks have little reliable info.  

 

I will also admit I find anything from Kiper as worthless, so I have a negative biased about anything he says out the gate.  He’s a blow hard who is wrong like 95% of the time on everyone and everything but gets paid a ton to keep blowing, hard.  Lol

 

He's a celebrity.

 

Maybe you should go back and ask your teacher at recess what the purpose of TV and radio and internet stuff is....

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

11 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

I forget where I read it, but none of these guys have any idea what they are doing.  Teams actually have their draft boards put together prior to the Senior Bowl.  What is really happening is teams are using the Senior Bowl and Combine to confirm what they thought they already knew.  So long as there are no serious injuries or personal issues guys stay pat.  Teams only move off a guy if there is something seriously wrong.  On the other hand, no body is "rising" because he ran a really fast 40 at the combine or benched a ton of reps.   

 

What is really happening when guys "rise" or "fall" is the draft "experts" are starting to pick up on what teams are thinking.  The combine is important because that is when the draft experts start getting inside info into what is going on inside the team organizations, due in part to the massive media-scouting exposure.  Thats why the mocks change so radically.  

 

The whole thing is a massive racket.  It only works because fans are football starved and are looking for any drama they can get.  

 

This I certainly agree with, good point and post

[row_33]

pretty good gig when you make $1,000,000 and it really chafes the internet anger jockeys who tell everyone 1,000 times you have no clue what you are doing

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

8 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

He's a celebrity.

 

Maybe you should go back and ask your teacher at recess what the purpose of TV and radio and internet stuff is....

 

 

 

Maybe we should ask society why we make morons with no intelligence, skills or abilities into celebrities and Presidents  

[YoloinOhio]

13 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

I forget where I read it, but none of these guys have any idea what they are doing.  Teams actually have their draft boards put together prior to the Senior Bowl.  What is really happening is teams are using the Senior Bowl and Combine to confirm what they thought they already knew.  So long as there are no serious injuries or personal issues guys stay pat.  Teams only move off a guy if there is something seriously wrong.  On the other hand, no body is "rising" because he ran a really fast 40 at the combine or benched a ton of reps.   

 

What is really happening when guys "rise" or "fall" is the draft "experts" are starting to pick up on what teams are thinking.  The combine is important because that is when the draft experts start getting inside info into what is going on inside the team organizations, due in part to the massive media-scouting exposure.  Thats why the mocks change so radically.  

 

The whole thing is a massive racket.  It only works because fans are football starved and are looking for any drama they can get.  

As I mentioned before, mock drafts are simply a discussion point about the draft, players, and teams. They don’t need to be “right” or “wrong” and don’t need to be taken as seriously as some seem to take them. It’s ok to just talk about the player mocked to the Bills and have fun with it. 

 

[row_33]

10 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Maybe we should ask society why we make morons with no intelligence, skills or abilities into celebrities and Presidents  

 

i will carry on and live my life as best i can, it going pretty good

 

a part of it is amusement on here, people who rage in bitterness on here are the most amusing

 

 

[BillsMafia13]

2 hours ago, WideRightRevenge said:

I know this is a top heavy defensive player draft and best player available mindsets  ... but our defense was #2 in YPG allowed with for the year.  Now I love Kyle W and he will be missed ... but the needs are on offense .. so if can't trade down .. then overspend the pick on OL player ... where we did good in not allowing yards ..we we're 3rd from the bottom in total yards offensively .... attack the need please in 2019 draft and free agency ... help our QB

Preach the good word.  Hopefully they have on OL head and shoulders above the rest.  Theres plenty of talent in FA too

[Alphadawg7]

2 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

i will carry on and live my life as best i can, it going pretty good

 

a part of it is amusement on here, people who rage in bitterness on here are the most amusing

 

 

 

Lol, says the guy on an internet message board complaining about (non public figures) posters comments

 

Ya know, it’s possible to live a great life and also have opinions right?  

 

All good...live your life as will the rest of us.  I am blessed with one I particularly love as well.  Doesn’t make me think Kiper is good at what he does though  

[FeelingOnYouboty]

I'd be upset if we took Gary over Oliver.

[row_33]

as i kinda have a life and don't sweat lottery numbers that I'm not playing

 

the Kiper List is fine by me, it tells me who is the most likely to go early in the draft and what stories are developing

 

i really don't care about potential picks and ones that were not made

 

the real picks made are excruciating enough with this franchise

 

[Steve O]

53 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

For those complaining about mock drafts ...

 

they are simply a discussion point, especially in January. This is also version 1.0, it will change several times - after FA, after the combine, etc.  it is one of many. They obviously evolve from now until April. They aren’t intended to always be “right” - everyone is just guessing. Some find that to be fun exercise.  Also, no need to take it so seriously, it’s just a discussion point to see what the draft analysts think about the players and the team needs. Some people aren’t into CFB and don’t know a lot about the players, this is a way to dive into draft season and discuss them. 

 

If you hate mock drafts, or the person who did the mock draft, simply don’t click on the thread just to say they suck or he sucks. Both are in the thread title to let you know what it’s about. Respectfully? It’s draft season and that means mock draft season . Just move on if you don’t want to discuss the mock draft in the title instead of complaining that people are discussing the mock draft in the thread. Please and thank you. 

Well said. 

[row_33]

may i be granted even 1% of the extra energy needed to flip my freaking wig over someone's mock draft

 

 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

43 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

As I mentioned before, mock drafts are simply a discussion point about the draft, players, and teams. They don’t need to be “right” or “wrong” and don’t need to be taken as seriously as some seem to take them. It’s ok to just talk about the player mocked to the Bills and have fun with it. 

 

 

I am all about it.  And I don't care about who is mocked to the bills.  I am neither excited nor elated.  I love just talking about who we may draft.  

 

But that doesn't mean people shouldn't know what they are getting into.  

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

For those complaining about mock drafts ...

 

they are simply a discussion point, especially in January. This is also version 1.0, it will change several times - after FA, after the combine, etc.  it is one of many. They obviously evolve from now until April. They aren’t intended to always be “right” - everyone is just guessing. Some find that to be fun exercise.  Also, no need to take it so seriously, it’s just a discussion point to see what the draft analysts think about the players and the team needs. Some people aren’t into CFB and don’t know a lot about the players, this is a way to dive into draft season and discuss them. 

 

If you hate mock drafts, or the person who did the mock draft, simply don’t click on the thread just to say they suck or he sucks. Both are in the thread title to let you know what it’s about. Respectfully? It’s draft season and that means mock draft season . Just move on if you don’t want to discuss the mock draft in the title instead of complaining that people are discussing the mock draft in the thread. Please and thank you. 

 

Honestly, you are not really wrong.  However, I do think in this case it’s more to do with Kiper who is just a hard guy to like and so frequently wrong that brings out more criticism.  He’s the Stephen A Smith or the Skip Bayless of mock drafts.  For instance, you won’t likely see as much dislike on a mock or draft opinion from someone like Mayock.  

 

And part of any discussion about an “opinion” is also where said opinion originated from.  So being critical of the source seems to be a fair part to a discussion of said opinion.  

 

All good though.  

[Mountain Man]

20 hours ago, Buff76ers said:

If that’s the case he needs to rethink it.  He knows we drafted Harrison Phillips last year and are trying to resign Jordan Phillips.  We must go O in the first. 

No. We have a massive hole at DT, Gary, or more preferably Oliver, would make huge sense

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Maybe we should ask society why we make morons with no intelligence, skills or abilities into celebrities and Presidents  

IT ALL STARTED WITH THE KARDASHIANS!!!

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

I forget where I read it, but none of these guys have any idea what they are doing.  Teams actually have their draft boards put together prior to the Senior Bowl.  What is really happening is teams are using the Senior Bowl and Combine to confirm what they thought they already knew.  So long as there are no serious injuries or personal issues guys stay pat.  Teams only move off a guy if there is something seriously wrong.  On the other hand, no body is "rising" because he ran a really fast 40 at the combine or benched a ton of reps.   

 

What is really happening when guys "rise" or "fall" is the draft "experts" are starting to pick up on what teams are thinking.  The combine is important because that is when the draft experts start getting inside info into what is going on inside the team organizations, due in part to the massive media-scouting exposure.  Thats why the mocks change so radically.  

 

The whole thing is a massive racket.  It only works because fans are football starved and are looking for any drama they can get.  

 

As I said already, I certainly agree with this and think it’s pretty accurate.  

 

That beind said, it makes me wonder what Mayocks personal board looked like in comparison to the Raiders existing board when he got hired.  Wonder how close or wide apart they were, be interesting to see them side by side.  

 

Raiders and Gruden already had an “interesting” first draft and trade shakeups last year.  So will be a fun and interesting story line to see how Gruden and Mayock handle this draft and all those premium picks.  

[BillsVet]

1 hour ago, row_33 said:

pretty good gig when you make $1,000,000 and it really chafes the internet anger jockeys who tell everyone 1,000 times you have no clue what you are doing

 

It's a sign of the times when someone like Kiper puts out their first mock and the response in this thread from a select group of posters is to angrily malign the writer and not debate the pick.  Why is there so much anger?  Why are people intolerant of other's opinions?  Chill out for a second and stop being so bitter.   

 

I don't understand the vitriol directed toward Kiper and other draft types.  Kiper doesn't "hate" the Bills and for those saying he doesn't know what he's doing as evidenced by mocks, well, he's been employed by ESPN for something like 35 years.  He may not be able to predict the future, but no one does.  He does know the prospects and has an opinion on practically all of them.  You can debate whether he understands each team's needs appropriately, but his knowledge is up there.  

 

It's also funny to watch people trying to disprove every draftnik's opinion by saying their prognostications are inaccurate.  As if the standard is perfection and anything less totally disqualifies their opinion or mock.  People need to be a little more patient, a little more interested in debate, and a lot less prone to arguing.  

Edited January 18, 2019 by BillsVet

[Mark Vader]

20 hours ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

I’ve seen him going to the Bills at 9 in a few mock drafts now.  Seems kind of small for a 3 tech, but I’m guessing he could add 15-20 pounds.  I don’t love it, but I don’t know enough about Gary to hate this.

 

Any Michigan fans out there have an opinion?

I like Rashan Gary a lot and I would be fine with the Bills drafting him.

 

He didn't dominate at Michigan and he did have an injury during his senior year, but he definitely had his moments. What I like most about him is his versatility. He can play practically anywhere on the defensive line, and I think McDermott could really find the best fit for Gary and make him a prominent fixture for us.

 

I'm not saying that the Bills should definitely draft Gary, since there is plenty of talented D-Linemen in the draft, but he would be a very good addition.

[YoloinOhio]

26 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Honestly, you are not really wrong.  However, I do think in this case it’s more to do with Kiper who is just a hard guy to like and so frequently wrong that brings out more criticism.  He’s the Stephen A Smith or the Skip Bayless of mock drafts.  For instance, you won’t likely see as much dislike on a mock or draft opinion from someone like Mayock.  

 

And part of any discussion about an “opinion” is also where said opinion originated from.  So being critical of the source seems to be a fair part to a discussion of said opinion.  

 

All good though.  

I totally get criticizing Kiper if you don’t like him. But it’s the “why discuss a mock draft of Kiper did it” type stuff (not saying that’s you)... it really doesn’t matter whether he’s right, it’s just the analysis piece that is interesting. He knows a lot about players, whether he’s right about how good they are or where they ultimately go is kind of hard to determine. They all get some right and some wrong. He had Josh Allen going #1 for a long time last season. He liked him a lot. And we can all agree that let’s hope he was right about him!

Edited January 18, 2019 by YoloinOhio

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Maybe we should ask society why we make morons with no intelligence, skills or abilities into celebrities and Presidents  

Hey! Don’t talk about Barrack that way!

[Alphadawg7]

2 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Hey! Don’t talk about Barrack that way!

 

Ha touché 

[Augie]

6 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

I totally get criticizing Kiper if you don’t like him. But it’s the “why discuss a mock draft of Kiper did it” type stuff (not saying that’s you)... it really doesn’t matter whether he’s right, it’s just the analysis piece that is interesting. He knows a lot about players, whether he’s right about how good they are or where they ultimately go is kind of hard to determine. They all get some right and some wrong. He had Josh Allen going #1 for a long time last season. He liked him a lot. And we can all agree that let’s hope he was right about him!

 

Yeah, it’s not about whether he’s right or wrong for me (though I do find him somewhat annoying). For me this time of year is learning about the prospects. I don’t follow the college game or individual players as many here do, so I like getting varying ideas and opinions and sort through them.  By the time the draft comes along I’ll be much better informed based on these discussions. 

[iinii]

21 hours ago, Woodman19 said:

You always take the best player.  Wouldn't you hate to pass on Warren Sapp because you needed a receiver more?

Just like the teams that passed on Michael Jordan. Bobby Knight was asked by Seattle who they should pick. He told them MJ. They said they needed a center. He told them play MJ at center until you find one. BPA....

[YoloinOhio]

26 minutes ago, Mark Vader said:

I like Rashan Gary a lot and I would be fine with the Bills drafting him.

 

He didn't dominate at Michigan and he did have an injury during his senior year, but he definitely had his moments. What I like most about him is his versatility. He can play practically anywhere on the defensive line, and I think McDermott could really find the best fit for Gary and make him a prominent fixture for us.

 

I'm not saying that the Bills should definitely draft Gary, since there is plenty of talented D-Linemen in the draft, but he would be a very good addition.

Where is winovich projected? He seems like a McD type...

[BuffaloHokie13]

Just now, YoloinOhio said:

Where is winovich projected? He seems like a McD type...

I've got him as a borderline day 1 pick. Might be there for our round 2 pick, but it depends how he tests imo

[Mark Vader]

3 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Where is winovich projected? He seems like a McD type...

From what I have read, Winovich is projected as a 2nd round pick.

 

I agree with you, he definitely looks like a McDermott "Process" player.

 

Unfortunately, Winovich has opted out of the Senior Bowl due to injury. So we will have to wait for him at the combine.

[Real McClappy]

Picking D with our first round pick is pretty stupid IMHO when we are desperate for Oline help. This draft has like 4 studs for the O line that will be all gone before 20 if not sooner. Why the hell should we not get one?

 

Here's a MOCK that actually makes sense for the Bills

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001011490/article/daniel-jeremiah-mock-draft-10-kyler-murray-lands-with-patriots

#9 Bills select - Jawaan Taylor - OT

A Tackle or Guard we can build around for years.

 

Edited January 18, 2019 by Real McCoy

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

On 1/17/2019 at 3:08 PM, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

...no Oliver in the top 10.....reasonable?...is his stock falling because of his sideline scrapes with coaches?..............

[YoloinOhio]

1 minute ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...no Oliver in the top 10.....reasonable?...is his stock falling because of his sideline scrapes with coaches?..............

I honestly don’t know. It’s surprising to me.  But it’s possible. He will be a guy who everyone will want to interview a bunch, to dig into all of that.

[DC Tom]

On 1/17/2019 at 2:27 PM, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

 

 

That's dumb ***** logic.  Harrison Phillips was drafted to be Kyle's replacement.  

[GreggTX]

Mock drafts are pointless now. We have a lot of money for FA's, so we don't even know what holes we'll have at draft time. That said, we can't go wrong with OL help unless 3 very good OL shake loose, but that's unlikely with the league wide OL talent drought.

1 hour ago, DC Tom said:

 

That's dumb ***** logic.  Harrison Phillips was drafted to be Kyle's replacement.  

 

I don't think Phillips was all that great as a rookie. He wasn't terrible, but I think we can do better without breaking the budget and a beast of a DT wouldn't hurt us any with our perennially poor run defense.

[BADOLBILZ]

3 minutes ago, GreggTX said:

Mock drafts are pointless now. We have a lot of money for FA's, so we don't even know what holes we'll have at draft time. That said, we can't go wrong with OL help unless 3 very good OL shake loose, but that's unlikely with the league wide OL talent drought.

 

 

It's all pointless, it's a message board.

 

But let's hope they don't draft for need.........that's how you get Shaq and Ragnuts..........get players you think can be great over players you think can start.