Rams & Chiefs Offensive Lines

[NoSaint]

10 minutes ago, Jerome007 said:

That rookie QB is quite good. And Shady maybe is near as good as he was, we don't know, we couldn't tell! So of course the Bills need better players across the board, especially on offense. But a better OLine makes everyone look better and gives Daboll more plays too. 

I didn’t disagree largely.

 

but JA is still a rookie and a single RB who i do think is aging doesn’t really refute my point.

 

I think that our pass catchers were a gap between us and any other unit as far as quality while I think that the line was just normal bad. And RB was at best middle of the pack.

 

As much as anything though I was pointing out that those other lines probably don’t look GREAT with this offense. Outside of JA running and fister down the stretch we didn’t have much that dictated to the other team and that’s going to get everyone (line included) beat up.

[Formerly Allan in MD]

The only offensive line I'm concerned about is our "offensive" one.

[2003Contenders]

Funny how an undisputed elite QB like Andrew Luck can struggle so badly when the protection breaks down. 

[RocCityRoller]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

Wait, wait!  I thought the Colts and Cowboys have drafted the best O-lines?

 

Both got wrecked yesterday.  

 

No kidding the Chiefs and Rams won yesterday, what a surprise. 2 of the top 4 teams in the league all season won yesterday, what a shocker.

 

I stand by my statement, and would take either OL over what Buffalo has.

 

Dallas - divisional title and a playoff win

Colts - helped salvage the career of a very god QB and had a playoff win

 

Bills - nearly ruined their rookie QB with an elbow injury about 6 games into his rookie season, borderline hall of fame player couldn't get 4 ypc, 6-10 no playoffs sitting at home, no division title, no playoff wins.

 

I don't understand how you are against investing in OL.

[yungmack]

Reporter: "What do you think of your offensive line's execution"? Bucs HC John McKay: "I'm all for it." A classic.

[RocCityRoller]

7 minutes ago, 2003Contenders said:

Funny how an undisputed elite QB like Andrew Luck can struggle so badly when the protection breaks down. 

 

Guess you need more than a QB, because its also funny how undisputed football God Aaron Rogers has gone 6-9-1 and 7-9 the past 2 seasons, got a coach fired and missed the playoffs two years in a row

[OldTimer1960]

3 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

You just need to find the right guys. Some of those guys are journeymen, second round picks, 7th rounders etc. the lone top ten player is Eric Fisher and he's probably the worst of the bunch. Also the Chiefs have a good amount of functional depth and overcame a few injuries this year. 

 

Find the right guys to gel for you. You don't have to use premium assets like top ten picks. And find functional depth. That has to be mission numero uno this off season. 

I understand your point and agree, but second round picks are still high picks.

[OldTimer1960]

It is all a system of interdependent parts.  By that I don’t mean “scheme” necessarily.  

 

A good OL gives receivers a bit more time to get open and the QB enough room and time to read the defense and use proper mechanics when throwing.  A good OL also can allow for run plays to put you in good down and distance situations.  How many offensive drives were the Bills in 2nd and 8+ yards?  You are way behind the 8 ball in those situations.

 

Good receivers help help the OL and QB look good by getting open quickly.  This puts less pressure on the OL and allows the QB to make quick decisions and throw the ball before pressure gets near him.  Good receivers allow more easy routine plays by getting separation, making the routine catches and, occasionally making the great catch.  

 

Further, a good OL and good receivers present a threat to the defense that makes getting the run game going much easier.

 

The 2018 Bills offense was frequently in bad down and distance situations, had receivers who could not get open regularly and often didn’t make the routine catches, let alone the occasional special play.

 

The OL and receivers are both important - so is the run game.  Watching the Patriots, it is rarely that they dominate because they have such superior talent on the OL, in the receiving group or at RB - it is their balance and ability to be good, not necessarily great, at everything that constantly keeps defenses off balance.

 

[MrEpsYtown]

20 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

I understand your point and agree, but second round picks are still high picks.

 

I think late first, second and third rounds is where you get your value picking up offensive lineman. The majority of the good ones fall in that range. And I am okay with trading down or using 2nd, 3rd round picks. I am completely against using a top ten pick, unless they are a generational talent like Quentin Nelson. 

[OldTimer1960]

1 minute ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

I think late first, second and third rounds is where you get your value picking up offensive lineman. The majority of the good ones fall in that range. And I am okay with trading down or using 2nd, 3rd round picks. I am completely against using a top ten pick, unless they are a generational talent like Quentin Nelson. 

We aren’t really disagreeing, but I don’t think that there should be hard rules- never draft position X high.  I think you have to look at who is available at all positions in the top 10 in any draft and compare them on their merits, your needs, relative value of positions, depth in the draft at positions, etc.  I’m not arguing that all positions are equally important, but for sure OLT is still a premium position (IMHO).

 

 

[BillsFan130]

3 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

As many of us have said: the Bills need a 2017 Rams type offseason.

 

Add 3 starters on the OL 

Add a whole new top-3 WR group

Add 2 new TEs

Let your rookie QB immerse himself in the playbook for an entire offseason 

Yes sir. Only difference is we don’t have a Sean Mcvay unfortunately 

[thebandit27]

Just now, BillsFan130 said:

Yes sir. Only difference is we don’t have a Sean Mcvay unfortunately 

 

Not sure how much Sean McVay would look like Sean McVay without an absurdly good cast of characters to work with, but that's a fair point 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

3 hours ago, BuffalothruMyVeins said:

I've heard good things about that Rams OL coach... oh wait, the Bills fired him 2 years ago. Damn.

Well, I believe the Chiefs and Rams both have high profile OL FAs this year, one a guard and 1 a center... if you ask me, I say we overpay and throw a combined $17M- $20M at these two guys, re-sign Mills and draft a RT with our 2nd rounder, and we still have approx $70M to spend on skill positions and 9 more draft picks to find another 5-6 starters. 

I wish Madden came out at the end of the super bowl, I would love to get the game right now, I would love to get a copy and build this team myself. This offseason is looking exciting.

 

hard to be a good coach with bum players

 

 

[BillsFan130]

47 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Not sure how much Sean McVay would look like Sean McVay without an absurdly good cast of characters to work with, but that's a fair point 

Fair enough.

 

But I do think he was huge in bringing in the guys he wanted. And I think it’s indisputable how much he helped Goff through his offensive schemes

[thebandit27]

2 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

Fair enough.

 

But I do think he was huge in bringing in the guys he wanted. And I think it’s indisputable how much he helped Goff through his offensive schemes

 

Absolutely 

[BillsVet]

Today, the Patriot's short passing game is neutralizing the Chargers' pass rush.  I haven't seen Bosa or Ingram really force Brady into doing much bad.  

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, RocCityRoller said:

 

No kidding the Chiefs and Rams won yesterday, what a surprise. 2 of the top 4 teams in the league all season won yesterday, what a shocker.

 

I stand by my statement, and would take either OL over what Buffalo has.

 

Dallas - divisional title and a playoff win

Colts - helped salvage the career of a very god QB and had a playoff win

 

Bills - nearly ruined their rookie QB with an elbow injury about 6 games into his rookie season, borderline hall of fame player couldn't get 4 ypc, 6-10 no playoffs sitting at home, no division title, no playoff wins.

 

I don't understand how you are against investing in OL.

 

Im not against investing in the O-line.  If you read my other posts on this topic you would realize  you just made that up.

 

Dont blow a top 10 pick on o-line over a playmaker.  Pretty simple.  

 

Colts top O-line got lit up immediately and all day by what everyone was describing as a bad KC D.  Luck was helpless behind that line. 

 

Allen played well after he returned from injury (ANY O-line is going to allow a hit like that on their QB at some point) behind that same o-line.  

 

Free agents and 2nd or 3rd round is where the value is.  And get a new RB.  

Edited January 13, 2019 by Mr. WEO

[OldTimer1960]

10 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

Fair enough.

 

But I do think he was huge in bringing in the guys he wanted. And I think it’s indisputable how much he helped Goff through his offensive schemes

Was it only the offensive schemes or could it have been equally the significant added talent around him and him having learned from his rookie year?  I think it all matters, including the scheme, the talent and the experience that Goff has gained.  Having Todd Gurley in the backfield certainly helps a lot as well as the receivers he is working with.

 

 

[prissythecat]

14 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Free agents and 2nd or 3rd round is where the value is.  And get a new RB.  

 

 

You mean teams shouldn’t use their  high first round pick in a guy that plays patty cake ?

[row_33]

Three massacres,

 

expecting the Saints to rain hell on the Eagles as well

 

 

[RocCityRoller]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Im not against investing in the O-line.  If you read my other posts on this topic you would realize  you just made that up.

 

Dont blow a top 10 pick on o-line over a playmaker.  Pretty simple.  

 

Colts top O-line got lit up immediately and all day by what everyone was describing as a bad KC D.  Luck was helpless behind that line. 

 

Allen played well after he returned from injury (ANY O-line is going to allow a hit like that on their QB at some point) behind that same o-line.  

 

Free agents and 2nd or 3rd round is where the value is.  And get a new RB.  

 

your post was taken out of context then, thanks for clarifying.

 

We agree in a lot of regards. Id rather see as pass catcher/ pass rusher or mountain DT in the first too, but if a great OL prospect is there then get him.

That may not be the case this year

[BillsFan130]

1 hour ago, OldTimer1960 said:

Was it only the offensive schemes or could it have been equally the significant added talent around him and him having learned from his rookie year?  I think it all matters, including the scheme, the talent and the experience that Goff has gained.  Having Todd Gurley in the backfield certainly helps a lot as well as the receivers he is working with.

 

 

Both IMO.

 

Mcvay would get the rams offence to line up fast so he can scan the defence and then relay it to Jared Goff. This is before the head sets turned off at 15 seconds.

 

Brilliant coaching and he seems to always put his offence in a position to succeed

 

 

[Doc]

You can find good players in any round.  Historically though 1st round OL have the highest success rate at 83%.

 

 

[Prickly Pete]

6 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

Also the Cowboys are the team with all of those highly touted and drafted players (though Frederick is out) and they got their asses handed to them. 

 

And just last week there was endless praise heaped on the Colts O-line, and this week the Colts' lack of playmakers was obvious ( I can't recall any big plays made after a catch by any of the Colt receivers).

 

I bet Luck would swap one of those lineman for Tyreek Hill....

 

The Bills need to add more talent to the offense at a bunch of positions. Just get better players, regardless of position, and things will come together.

 

Edited January 13, 2019 by OJ Tom

[hemma]

Look through the list of FAs on Spotrac and Beane could probably fix the OL just from FAs, but he’d need to be willing to spend and brace for whining about ‘overspending’.  

I’d be ok with overspend.  Just get the OL mess behind us and move forward, quickly.

[Doc]

Was the Colts' problem more OL or lack of playmakers?  Looked like the OL couldn't block anything, rendering playmakers moot.

[Prickly Pete]

Just now, Doc said:

Was the Colts' problem more OL or lack of playmakers?  Looked like the OL couldn't block anything, rendering playmakers moot.

 Gee things changed awful quick then.

 

Remind me of some nice plays made by a receiver after a catch?

I can't recall any. They just aren't a dynamic bunch.

[Doc]

Just now, OJ Tom said:

 Gee things changed awful quick then.

 

Remind me of some nice plays made by a receiver after a catch?

I can't recall any. They just aren't a dynamic bunch.

 

Nothing changed.  The Colts' OL was over-matched from the get-go.  No running game, no time for players to get open and Luck was throwing passes into the dirt all night.

[Prickly Pete]

Just now, Doc said:

 

Nothing changed.  The Colts' OL was over-matched from the get-go.  No running game, no time for players to get open and Luck was throwing passes into the dirt all night.

 

Just last week this board was abuzz with O-line envy for the Colts!

 

When the wrs did catch a pass, none of them made anything happen. They arent dynamic players. 

[Doc]

1 minute ago, OJ Tom said:

Just last week this board was abuzz with O-line envy for the Colts!

 

When the wrs did catch a pass, none of them made anything happen. They arent dynamic players. 

 

And yet last weekend they did.

[Mr. WEO]

26 minutes ago, Doc said:

You can find good players in any round.  Historically though 1st round OL have the highest success rate at 83%.

 

 

 

Success at what.  Was Joe Thomas a success for the Browns?  Their O line was bad his whole career.  What was the point?

19 minutes ago, Doc said:

Was the Colts' problem more OL or lack of playmakers?  Looked like the OL couldn't block anything, rendering playmakers moot.

 

L-line full of studs though, no?

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Success at what.  Was Joe Thomas a success for the Browns?  Their O line was bad his whole career.  What was the point?

 

Obviously Joe Thomas was a success.  Is this even a serious question?

[Mr. WEO]

4 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Obviously Joe Thomas was a success.  Is this even a serious question?

 

What did he do for the Browns offense (say, over AP)?

 

if they instead picked the worst LT in the draft,  what would have been the difference 

Edited January 13, 2019 by Mr. WEO

[Prickly Pete]

26 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

And yet last weekend they did.

 

So is the Colts O-line good or bad, cuz there's 8 pages of their balls being washed from just last week....

 

 

I think an offense with an exceptional O-line, but average to below-average playmakers works best when you can get a lead, and work methodically. In a shootout, or coming from behind, you need dynamic playmakers.

Obviously, a team wants to be good all-around. So get the best players you can, as they become available.

 

There aren't great prospects for WR or O-line at the top of this draft. I would be happy with either position, but mostly I want the guy that will be better at his position.

Edited January 13, 2019 by OJ Tom

[Royale with Cheese]

5 hours ago, Jay_Fixit said:

I like how you pretend to know what point of attack means.

 

Its the pointy part of the attack.

[Augie]

7 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

You just need to find the right guys. Some of those guys are journeymen, second round picks, 7th rounders etc. the lone top ten player is Eric Fisher and he's probably the worst of the bunch. Also the Chiefs have a good amount of functional depth and overcame a few injuries this year. 

 

Find the right guys to gel for you. You don't have to use premium assets like top ten picks. And find functional depth. That has to be mission numero uno this off season. 

 

Someone, somewhere posted the top FA OL guys and how they came into the league. It was all across the board! The 6th round had as many guys as the 2nd. It was very interesting. 

[Doc]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

What did he do for the Browns offense (say, over AP)?

 

if they instead picked the worst LT in the draft,  what would have been the difference 

 

Just because the Browns were inept in adding talent to their team elsewhere doesn't make the Thomas pick a bad one.   I doubt if AP had been picked by them that he would've been worth much. 

 

1 hour ago, OJ Tom said:

 

So is the Colts O-line good or bad, cuz there's 8 pages of their balls being washed from just last week....

 

 

I think an offense with an exceptional O-line, but average to below-average playmakers works best when you can get a lead, and work methodically. In a shootout, or coming from behind, you need dynamic playmakers.

Obviously, a team wants to be good all-around. So get the best players you can, as they become available.

 

There aren't great prospects for WR or O-line at the top of this draft. I would be happy with either position, but mostly I want the guy that will be better at his position.

 

The OL is good but had a bad game. 

[Mr. WEO]

26 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Just because the Browns were inept in adding talent to their team elsewhere doesn't make the Thomas pick a bad one.   I doubt if AP had been picked by them that he would've been worth much. 

 

 

The OL is good but had a bad game. 

 

They would have gone a lot further to “adding  talent” by picking the greatest RB in 25 years....who is still racking up the yards even on a crappy team.  He’s not the kind of RB that apparently will need a police escort to get past the line of scrimmage..

Edited January 13, 2019 by Mr. WEO

[Doc]

48 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

They would have gone a lot further to “adding  talent” by picking the greatest RB in 25 years....who is still racking up the yards even on a crappy team.  He’s not the kind of RB that apparently will need a police escort to get past the line of scrimmage..

 

He needs people to block for him. And other players on offense.  Do you think the Browns would’ve provided that for him?  I think that answer is obvious. 

[Mr. WEO]

He doesn’t need a Joe Thomas to block for him.  That’s obvious..and to the point.