Finally got to watch the game...it was good to see Josh in the pocket

[John from Riverside]

The Lions appeared to take away Josh Allen's runs and it was really good to see him throwing darts from the pocket......his WR's are still dropping balls that they should catch here and there....and with a very limited running game.

 

I dont think Deonte Thompson makes this squad next year...I was in favor of bringing him in but he had a chance to make a really nice catch for huge yardage and once again drops it.   It has been a pleasure to find Foster and McKenzie in this down year.....and god who knows how good Foster could actually become?   He is definately a 2 to me now.....we need a one......and McKenzie is seriously going to push Zay for playing time this next year.

 

We need another very good WR and a reliable TE..........

 

Also I think we have found our number 2 corner.....the kid just needs to put on some weight and get stronger...he is in perfect position most of the time and needs to take the ball away from the WR.

[qwksilver]

Agreed on most points. It has become rather frustrating watching opponents WRs make contested catches week after week while ours do not.

[WhyteDwarf]

2 minutes ago, qwksilver said:

Agreed on most points. It has become rather frustrating watching opponents WRs make contested catches week after week while ours do not.

 

The Kelvin Benjamin stench might take a while to wear off the rest of the WR's.

[Stank_Nasty]

7 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

The Lions appeared to take away Josh Allen's runs and it was really good to see him throwing darts from the pocket......his WR's are still dropping balls that they should catch here and there....and with a very limited running game.

 

I dont think Deonte Thompson makes this squad next year...I was in favor of bringing him in but he had a chance to make a really nice catch for huge yardage and once again drops it.   It has been a pleasure to find Foster and McKenzie in this down year.....and god who knows how good Foster could actually become?   He is definately a 2 to me now.....we need a one......and McKenzie is seriously going to push Zay for playing time this next year.

 

We need another very good WR and a reliable TE..........

 

Also I think we have found our number 2 corner.....the kid just needs to put on some weight and get stronger...he is in perfect position most of the time and needs to take the ball away from the WR.

if foster keeps up this sort of production through the end of the season i'm seriously wondering if we will be drafting a #2 in the spring and not a #1.

 

what a turnaround.

3 minutes ago, qwksilver said:

Agreed on most points. It has become rather frustrating watching opponents WRs make contested catches week after week while ours do not.

you can watch wr's and te's all the around the league on a weekly basis reward their qb's, catching their "area code" throws. guys like big ben have made what seem to be half their livings off those type of throws...…. meanwhile in buffalo.....

[Billsfan1972]

15 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

if foster keeps up this sort of production through the end of the season i'm seriously wondering if we will be drafting a #2 in the spring and not a #1.

 

what a turnaround.

you can watch wr's and te's all the around the league on a weekly basis reward their qb's, catching their "area code" throws. guys like big ben have made what seem to be half their livings off those type of throws...…. meanwhile in buffalo.....

And a pedestrian catch like Fosters 75 yard TD is now considered a circus catch.

 

I'd be excited to see a receiver fighting for a catch and am impressed when they adjust for one.

 

Would like to see something before the end of the year.  

 

Like the holy grail 300 yard game, here in Buffalo 225 is considered a win fall......

 

 

[dickleyjones]

16 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

And a pedestrian catch like Fosters 75 yard TD is now considered a circus catch.

 

I'd be excited to see a receiver fighting for a catch and am impressed when they adjust for one.

 

Would like to see something before the end of the year.  

 

Like the holy grail 300 yard game, here in Buffalo 225 is considered a win fall......

 

 

not pedestrian, not a circus catch. you are making things up.

 

yes, and yes. 

 

and wtf is a win fall?

 

 

[Billsfan1972]

14 minutes ago, dickleyjones said:

not pedestrian, not a circus catch. you are making things up.

 

yes, and yes. 

 

and wtf is a win fall?

 

 

Sorry windfall (spell check).

 

Foster catch was a nice catch, nothing spectacular.  The pass however was something else.

 

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

56 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

The Lions appeared to take away Josh Allen's runs and it was really good to see him throwing darts from the pocket......his WR's are still dropping balls that they should catch here and there....and with a very limited running game.

 

I dont think Deonte Thompson makes this squad next year...I was in favor of bringing him in but he had a chance to make a really nice catch for huge yardage and once again drops it.   It has been a pleasure to find Foster and McKenzie in this down year.....and god who knows how good Foster could actually become?   He is definately a 2 to me now.....we need a one......and McKenzie is seriously going to push Zay for playing time this next year.

 

We need another very good WR and a reliable TE..........

 

Also I think we have found our number 2 corner.....the kid just needs to put on some weight and get stronger...he is in perfect position most of the time and needs to take the ball away from the WR.

 

i think we need Two WRs zay is ok and McKenzie has flashes and are really 4&5 receivers. Foster is a third.

 

we desperately need a TE and hopefully two, tired of seeing all these other teams with many and we have none.

 

Would be cool to get the Iowa boys, it would be like have our version of Gronk and Hernandez.

 

 

56 minutes ago, WhyteDwarf said:

 

The Kelvin Benjamin stench might take a while to wear off the rest of the WR's.

 

i just dont think they are good enough.

 

Benjamin is a welfare rat.

 

 

[John from Riverside]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

i think we need Two WRs zay is ok and McKenzie has flashes and are really 4&5 receivers. Foster is a third.

 

we desperately need a TE and hopefully two, tired of seeing all these other teams with many and we have none.

 

Would be cool to get the Iowa boys, it would be like have our version of Gronk and Hernandez.

 

 

We might not be able to come up with the two WR's this next year.....I think if we could get

 

- A REAL starter at TE

- A legit WR from the draft

- Foster as your 2

- McKenzie as your 3

- Zay as your 4

 

Spend that free agency money on veteran OL a pass rusher.......take Jonah with the number 1....maybe Deebo in the 2nd round?

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Just now, John from Riverside said:

We might not be able to come up with the two WR's this next year.....I think if we could get

 

- A REAL starter at TE

- A legit WR from the draft

- Foster as your 2

- McKenzie as your 3

- Zay as your 4

 

Spend that free agency money on veteran OL a pass rusher.......take Jonah with the number 1....maybe Deebo in the 2nd round?

 

That looks good but what if one of our TEs becomes our number one  

 

 

 

 

[gjv001]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

The Lions appeared to take away Josh Allen's runs and it was really good to see him throwing darts from the pocket......his WR's are still dropping balls that they should catch here and there....and with a very limited running game.

 

I dont think Deonte Thompson makes this squad next year...I was in favor of bringing him in but he had a chance to make a really nice catch for huge yardage and once again drops it.   It has been a pleasure to find Foster and McKenzie in this down year.....and god who knows how good Foster could actually become?   He is definately a 2 to me now.....we need a one......and McKenzie is seriously going to push Zay for playing time this next year.

 

We need another very good WR and a reliable TE..........

 

Also I think we have found our number 2 corner.....the kid just needs to put on some weight and get stronger...he is in perfect position most of the time and needs to take the ball away from the WR.

Better yet; It was good to see the Oline give Josh a pocket to throw from.

[ddaryl]

I thought it was his best game to date from a passing stand point. The last 3 weeks Josh has shown improvement in the short pass / quick throws,  and accuracy overall.

 

I wanted ot see him be more consistent and improve and he has done that I the 2nd half of the season. Still a work in progress but I am feeling better about his progression

[NoHuddleKelly12]

2 hours ago, WhyteDwarf said:

 

The Kelvin Benjamin stench might take a while to wear off the rest of the WR's.

lumberin, stumblin, bumblin, half-a**in...what's not to love about that stench?

[Doc]

I'd favor a #2 WR in FA.  With Zay being the elder statesmen of the WR corps (not counting Thompson who I doubt will be brought back), you need a veteran presence.  But definitely draft a WR early unless there are OL and/or a great TE prospect.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

2 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

The Lions appeared to take away Josh Allen's runs and it was really good to see him throwing darts from the pocket......his WR's are still dropping balls that they should catch here and there....and with a very limited running game.

 

I dont think Deonte Thompson makes this squad next year...I was in favor of bringing him in but he had a chance to make a really nice catch for huge yardage and once again drops it.   It has been a pleasure to find Foster and McKenzie in this down year.....and god who knows how good Foster could actually become?   He is definately a 2 to me now.....we need a one......and McKenzie is seriously going to push Zay for playing time this next year.

 

We need another very good WR and a reliable TE..........

 

Also I think we have found our number 2 corner.....the kid just needs to put on some weight and get stronger...he is in perfect position most of the time and needs to take the ball away from the WR.

Also loved Josh being able to catch his breath in the pocket from time to time, for a change...kudos to the line, we give them plenty of deserved grief, but they did better than previous weeks in letting him scan the field, regardless of changes to the pressure packages of Detroit being more focused on contain. 

[reddogblitz]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

We might not be able to come up with the two WR's this next year....

 

Why not? We got 90 mil and 10 draft picks.  It's a HUGE HOLE, probably the biggest.

 

Sign Golden Tate plus another FA WR  and draft someone good.

 

The Bills will never have a good offense or passing game until we stop screwin' around and get some quality WR s in here.

Edited December 17, 2018 by reddogblitz

[John from Riverside]

10 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Why not? We got 90 mil and 10 draft picks.  It's a HUGE HOLE, probably the biggest.

 

Sign Golden Tate plus another FA WR  and draft someone good.

 

The Bills will never have a good offense or passing game until we stop screwin' around and get some quality WR s in here.

I think we get a free agent and a draft pick.....but I really like both Foster and McKenzie and I dont want them taken off the field......

 

I really wonder if the number 1 guy comes from the TE position....we got NOTHING there

[reddogblitz]

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

I think we get a free agent and a draft pick.....but I really like both Foster and McKenzie and I dont want them taken off the field......

 

I want to get 2 guys better than those and move those 2 guys down to 3 and 4.  If Zay gets muscled out, so be it. 

[John from Riverside]

Since coming back

1 minute ago, reddogblitz said:

 

I want to get 2 guys better than those and move those 2 guys down to 3 and 4.  If Zay gets muscled out, so be it. 

Since coming back from the practice squad Foster is on pace for what would be a full season of well over 1000 yards.....

 

We want to move him to number 3?  Josh Allen has excellent chemistry with him.

 

Look I am not saying that we should not upgrade what was our most dismal position along with OL at the beginning of the year....but this is turning into what the LB situation was for us before Milano broke out......Foster HAS to stay in the mix.....McKenzie looks like a Roscoe Parrish type to me minus the injuries.

[Kwai San]

21 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Why not? We got 90 mil and 10 draft picks.  It's a HUGE HOLE, probably the biggest.

 

Sign Golden Tate plus another FA WR  and draft someone good.

 

The Bills will never have a good offense or passing game until we stop screwin' around and get some quality WR s in here.

 

I dunno - anybody but Golden Showers Tate....never liked him never thought he was consistently good.....

[reddogblitz]

14 minutes ago, Kwai San said:

 

I dunno - anybody but Golden Showers Tate....never liked him never thought he was consistently good.....

 

Like who?

 

He seems like he'd be good to me.  He makes a lot of contested catches and is a fierce veteran competitor with hardware.  Sounds just like what the doctor ordered for this team

[Alphadawg7]

42 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Why not? We got 90 mil and 10 draft picks.  It's a HUGE HOLE, probably the biggest.

 

Sign Golden Tate plus another FA WR  and draft someone good.

 

The Bills will never have a good offense or passing game until we stop screwin' around and get some quality WR s in here.

 

THIS ^^^^

 

WR is such an issue right now.  

 

Some people are going to freak out when I write this, but its not crazy:  The difference between Mahomes and Allen is not as big of a gap as people will think looking at a stat sheet.  (Cue the freak outs).  I will explain.

 

As a guy who had Hunt on all 3 fantasy teams, and also just see the Chiefs as fun to watch, I have seen a lot of them this year.  There is a MASSIVE difference and its not so much the QB's.  Its the people catching passes, its so night and day its unreal.  

1. Getting open - there are guys running very open all over the field, including guys like Kelce who despite trying, defenses can never seem to just cover the guy.  A high percentage of Mahomes pass attempts have someone running very open giving him high percentage choices.  
2. Separation and route running - The WR's and TE consistently create both short and long passing opportunities where they get open on the initial routes.  Our guys, especially guys like KB and Zay just do not get open on their routes enough and they get most their catches when Allen is scrambling for his life and defenders lose track of them for a second.  KB was also awful in general at running precise routes that cost us a couple turnovers too.
3. Adjusting to the pass/scramble - Chiefs personnel are exceptional at helping Mahomes out when he is scrambling, they never stop moving and run around and come back to give Mahomes a place to go.  Our guys are utterly awful at this.  There was a play yesterday where one of our WR's went in the middle on like a 10 yard curl and Josh had to escape running to his right.  That WR literally stood there like he was out of the play despite being on the right hash marks for the curl.  Josh threw the pass away but had that WR just started running with Josh toward sideline he had all kind of room to make a play for Josh.  
4. Contested catches - None of our guys make any contested catches, where its a shock if Kelce, Hill, Watkins, etc dont come down with a ball they get their hands on.  
5. Ball tracking, body position and Ball Adjustments - and this is where Hill blows my mind because of his size.  Hill is exceptional at make LATE adjustments on the ball and that prevents the DB from having a chance to adjust too and he uses his body to be the one who can really get the ball.  So many times Mahomes has chucked one and Hill sells it deeper until just before he gets there he puts breaks on and comes back and out positions to make the grab.  Its unreal how good he is at making those adjustments and how he waits so long to do so.  Our guys will start slowing down and tip their hand early in the pass giving the DB an opportunity to make a more contested pass attempt.

I am not trying to say Allen is as good as Mahomes right now, so some of you can calm down before you freak out.  But I do think the gap is not as wide as one would believe.  Mahomes has 3 major advantages at the moment over where he is and Allen is.  Talent around hm (see above), getting to learn defenses a full year with a good Vet mentor to help, and getting a whole offseason as the unquestioned starter.  So its to be expected he is going to be stronger in certain areas like reading defenses and recognizing coverages.  

 

But...I do think the Allen we see right now is capable of putting up some gaudy stats of his own today if he had the talent around him.  Then I imagine him next year with more time under his belt and a full offseason taking all reps as the unquestioned starter, and I see a kid that is on a path to really break out next year as well.  I think the future conversations of top 5 in the NFL are going to frequently have names like Mahomes, Baker, and Allen in them.  

 

 

Edited December 17, 2018 by Alphadawg7

[reddogblitz]

23 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

We want to move him to number 3?  Josh Allen has excellent chemistry with him.

 

I want guys better than what we got.  Sure Foster has done well.  It's not like I want him off the team.  He'd still get plenty of playing time and opportunities to catch the football.  But I'm also not going to make assumptions on what he can do based on a few games.  And, WR is a tough positon.  Would be nice to have some depth there there for a change.

 

We gotta stop cheap charleying this position.  It's too freakin' important.  It's a passing league.  Go get some studs with that 90 mil and picks.  Again, we'll never have a good passing game or QB until we do IMHO.

Edited December 17, 2018 by reddogblitz

[BillsSB2020]

If Zay Jones were not a draft pick, I wonder if he'd even be on the team. We all want the kid to succeed, but I'm getting really discouraged. A guy with his physical limitations MUST be sure handed.

[Billsfan1972]

Golden Tate is perfect for the Bills and by far the best WR FA.  But people would complain Bills paid too much.  

 

The guy battles and YAC is always up there. 

[John from Riverside]

4 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Golden Tate is perfect for the Bills and by far the best WR FA.  But people would complain Bills paid too much.  

 

The guy battles and YAC is always up there. 

To me Golden Tate is a perfect veteran for us to go after

 

Been there done that and is still productive....would prob be great in the locker room as well.   I would do Tate......draft a WR in the 2nd round....Foster at 2/3 and let McKenzie/Zay battle it out for the remaining reps (I have this feeling McKenzie is gonna win that battle)

[VW82]

Things you learn at TBD: Allen is basically just as good as Mahomes. Oh and you forgot Mahomes has a great Oline and one of the best offensive football coaches of the last 20 years. Respectfully, I'm going to disagree.  

[John from Riverside]

2 minutes ago, VW82 said:

Things you learn at TBD: Allen is basically just as good as Mahomes. Oh and you forgot Mahomes has a great Oline and one of the best offensive football coaches of the last 20 years. Respectfully, I'm going to disagree.  

About which part

 

Josh is not as good as Mahomes right now

Mahomes does have the offensive minded HC, the Offensive line, the weapons, and the year in the system that Josh does not.  

[VW82]

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

About which part

 

Josh is not as good as Mahomes right now

Mahomes does have the offensive minded HC, the Offensive line, the weapons, and the year in the system that Josh does not.  

 

That he's anywhere near as good as Mahomes right now like alphadawg was suggesting. I just meant he forgot to include those (legit) excuses in his assessment.

[Augie]

I was in fact pleased to see a lot of shorter passes yesterday. It’s not that I want a Capt Checkdown, but because I wanted to know he could make the throws as we haven’t seen much of that. 

 

I was not comfortable with the Allen choice initially, but I couldn’t get too upset because it’s not something over which  I have control. I’m not ready to declare him the savior, but I sure am warming up to him. This has been very encouraging so far! All I wanted out of this year was progress from Josh, and hopefully some of the other young core guys. Winning was secondary, but a positive culture also has value. 

[njbuff]

32 minutes ago, VW82 said:

 

That he's anywhere near as good as Mahomes right now like alphadawg was suggesting. I just meant he forgot to include those (legit) excuses in his assessment.

 

Mahomes was able to sit back and watch for almost a whole year. Allen didn't have that luxury.

 

I can't compare these two QB's in any way because their situations are totally different.

 

But I think Allen is doing fine with the hideous supporting cast he has, including a TERRIBLE running game. other than himself.

[John from Riverside]

41 minutes ago, VW82 said:

 

That he's anywhere near as good as Mahomes right now like alphadawg was suggesting. I just meant he forgot to include those (legit) excuses in his assessment.

Right now the arguement that Allen is as good as Mahomes is weak.......it may not be weak in the future though

 

 

[formerlyofCtown]

6 hours ago, Stank_Nasty said:

if foster keeps up this sort of production through the end of the season i'm seriously wondering if we will be drafting a #2 in the spring and not a #1.

 

what a turnaround.

you can watch wr's and te's all the around the league on a weekly basis reward their qb's, catching their "area code" throws. guys like big ben have made what seem to be half their livings off those type of throws...…. meanwhile in buffalo.....

Hopefully we draft WR 1b

[RocCityRoller]

2 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Golden Tate is perfect for the Bills and by far the best WR FA.  But people would complain Bills paid too much.  

 

The guy battles and YAC is always up there. 

 

With the young guys coming around I agree now.

 

A steady producer. Makes contested catches, doesn't have to be 'the guy'. Would still draft a WR in round 1 or 2.