The blame lies squarely with the HC, FO & Refusal to build an Offense - Not Allen

[LFC24]

1 hour ago, Kevin1778 said:

I blame it all on the idiots who destroyed this team for years and left this team in tatters. The Bills are doing a great job clearing out dead money. The goal is to win a Superbowl, not be a 9 win team every year.  They are set up perfectly to fix this team next year with a fortune in money available.

 

set up perfectly??????

 

our GM is as clueless as it gets buddy. he got rid of multiple talented player to acquire picks and draft a QB who looks like he is nowhere near ready to be playing in this league 

[Dopey]

2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

wel lets see 

 

QB - They took Peterman and Allen Passing on Mahomes, Rosen, Watson. Decided on McCarron instead of Bridgewater. Their conplete debacle handling the QB position. 

 

Jetisoned Sammy for attitude to trade for a lesser WR with bigger attitude problems. 

 

Traded Glenn and decided Bodine and Newhouse where good enough to replace Pro Bowlers 

 

let Woods walk and Signed Trash WRs for the same cost it would have been to keep Woods

 

 

there isnt ONE Offensive move they made that you can hang a hat in and say yeah OK they will get the offense right. 

 

Already have one failed OC

another OC that when he left that offense has a dynamic passing game

have a Career WR coach coaching QBs 

They have their qb. Maybe not yours, but they have their qb. That was priority#1. 

Mahomes is in kc. I'm sure 9 other teams wished they took him too. Time to get over it. He's not coming through that door.

 

Sammy was not just attitude. He is not worth what he got and you would be complaining if we paid him.

 

I liked Glenn, but Dawkins is doing just fine. Nothing terrible here.

 

I didn't like Robert leaving, but the new regime was starting over.

I get it, the offense sucks. I'm giving them another year. 

A lot of folks thought the "plan" on defense sucked. Got rid of Darby and "tank" talk was the rage. Got rid of Dareus, " for a 5th?!?! Terrible move". "Keep Lorax!?!? He's old". Look at what we have now. This is a defensive minded coach, sure, but I trust they will formulate a plan for the offense and work it well. And as long as I'm not comparing it to kc, I'm good.

On that note, does anyone think KC will win the SB with that defense?!?! Wonder if KC fans are happy with that defense. They should fire Andy Ried, right now!!! JK.

After all of that, we can agree to disagree. Nothing wrong with that.

 

 

[BillsVet]

4 minutes ago, JPP said:

Tyrod went to the playoffs last year......Is he a playoff calibur QB?  THere are lots more to a story than a stat line......

 

The 2017 Buffalo Bills may well have been one of the worst teams to ever make the playoffs since the modern playoff format started in 1990. Opponents outscored Buffalo by 57 points and it took the Cincinnati miracle for them to squeak in as a 6 seed. 

 

No self respecting GM or HC expects to make the post-season that way. Not one that expects to have their job more than 3-4 seasons.

[Dopey]

19 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

See and I contended there is NO history to show they will have better talent. They have picked Offensive talent and it is suspect at best (being nice here). So how can ANYONE believe they have the smarts to Build a Modern Era NFL offense 

You may not like it, but the offense was secondary to this staff, except QB. Those additions were to bide time. They fixed the defense 1st. Should we fire them and bring in an offensive minded coach? Sure let's start over. Again.

4 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

The 2017 Buffalo Bills may well have been one of the worst teams to ever make the playoffs since the modern playoff format started in 1990. Opponents outscored Buffalo by 57 points and it took the Cincinnati miracle for them to squeak in as a 6 seed. 

 

No self respecting GM or HC expects to make the post-season that way. Not one that expects to have their job more than 3-4 seasons.

That last sentence is EPIC. 17 years and we make the playoffs and you're complaining about it. Let me guess, you kneeled to the floor yelling "noooo! We can't get in this way!!" When Cincy scored that td.

Give it a rest already. Trust me, he respects himself and doesn't care if you don't.

 

[QuoteTheRaven83]

Put Mahomes on this team, with this o-line, and this coaching staff, with these WRs. Put Allen with Reid, Kelce, Cheetah, and that o-line. Would you all be saying the same thing about Mahomes and Allen?

[Dopey]

26 minutes ago, billsfan11 said:

It is just scary how bad the personnel decisions have been on the offensive side of the ball though. I have no faith in Mcd/Beane to build a good offence.

 

Here are some of their main acquisitions on the offensive side:

 

Traded up to get Zay Jones in the 2nd round- Looks awful now

Traded a 3rd round pick for Benjamin- Goes without saying here

Hired Rico/Daboll- Daboll looks even worse than Rico

Allen- Too early to tell

 

3/4 big moves they have made have been an epic fail so far, and Allen is just to early to judge right or wrong yet but he certainly has to start playing better

We hired a defensive minded coach. If the offense was humming after 1 year and the defense was as bad as the offense is this year, I would be more concerned. I expected the offense to be bad. This bad?! No, but I will wait to see what happens when they prioritize the offensive makeovers. That's all I'm saying.

[SoTier]

1 hour ago, jrober38 said:

Sure. It's not Allen's fault he's not very good. 

 

This regime looks pretty dumb for falling for the big, strong QB who all the analytics said wasn't a very good player. 

 

Hopefully he gets a lot better, but the early signs have not looked good. 

 

It's actually not even Nate Peterman's fault that he keeps sucking.  He would certainly like to be a whole lot better, but he just doesn't have an NFL caliber arm, and the Bills coaches refuse to accept that.  He should be a practice squad player or the third QB on the active roster, not the starter or the primary backup.  The cluelessness of McDermott and Company about offensive football in general and QBs in particular is simply beyond belief.

[GG]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

 

wel lets see 

 

QB - They took Peterman and Allen Passing on Mahomes, Rosen, Watson. Decided on McCarron instead of Bridgewater. Their conplete debacle handling the QB position. 

 

Jetisoned Sammy for attitude to trade for a lesser WR with bigger attitude problems. 

 

Traded Glenn and decided Bodine and Newhouse where good enough to replace Pro Bowlers 

 

let Woods walk and Signed Trash WRs for the same cost it would have been to keep Woods

 

 

there isnt ONE Offensive move they made that you can hang a hat in and say yeah OK they will get the offense right. 

 

Already have one failed OC

another OC that when he left that offense has a dynamic passing game

have a Career WR coach coaching QBs 

 

The only thing that they squarely missed of the options that were available was not going after Bridgewater.  I don't know who gave them medical advice, but it was clearly wrong and the guy was available for a song.   

 

It's hard to watch Mahomes light it up and not think of what could have been.  I'll chalk it up to usual Bills' luck that the front office was in transition for them to pull the obvious trigger.

 

We also don't know who else they pursued in FA that declined to work for the Bills, like John Brown.  Rishard Matthews would be a clear asset, but wants no part of Terry Robiskie.

 

And regarding your list of players that the Bills tossed aside, please tell me how much better Cordy Glenn has played than Dawkins, and why Sammy Watkins had a worse stat line than Zay Jones? 

 

Bills didn't let Robert Woods walk, they wanted to keep him.  He walked on his own.

 

Bodine was the best FA option available.  Which Pro Bowler did Newhouse replace?  The guy who can't last through a quarter of a season?

 

In retrospect, you also have to give credit to Beane for not going hogwild after Bradford, Cousins & Keenum

[Boatdrinks]

1 hour ago, Kevin1778 said:

I blame it all on the idiots who destroyed this team for years and left this team in tatters. The Bills are doing a great job clearing out dead money. The goal is to win a Superbowl, not be a 9 win team every year.  They are set up perfectly to fix this team next year with a fortune in money available.

Money won’t fix most of what ails the Bills. 

[Dopey]

5 minutes ago, QuoteTheRaven83 said:

Put Mahomes on this team, with this o-line, and this coaching staff, with these WRs. Put Allen with Reid, Kelce, Cheetah, and that o-line. Would you all be saying the same thing about Mahomes and Allen?

Mahomes missed a ton of throws last night. Wide open receivers. They should have won by 2 tds. Yes, I would still love him on our team.

[papazoid]

the FO is cleaning up the mess of overpaid and underperforming trash they inherited

 

already have over $90 mil in avail cap space for 2019...likely over $100 mil

 

that fixes a lot of problems

[Cheektowaga Chad]

I'm willing to give this regime this off season to rebuild the offense. They have a ton of cap and a ton of draft picks.

 

They have this defense humming, give them time to get the offense up to speed.

 

With that said the complete mis management of the offense is a huge red flag. How the quarterbacks alone were handled is a disgrace. Who ever made the choice of peterman over maccaron needs to have their say revoked when talking offense.

[Reed83HOF]

1 hour ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Ahhh the Dead Money excuse. That THEY created. 

 

They are also set up perfectly to Kill this team for years by spending all that money on Crap Offensive Players (Clearly something they Know how to do)

It looks to be a fairly weak FA class on the offensive side for all of our needs. Having the cap space is great, but I don't see many players being able to justify it.

[Tyrion]

2 hours ago, bmur66 said:

I prefer the Andy Reid approach myself. Not at all confident this team has the staff to build a high powered offense. I can’t understand how you go all in on a QB that everybody knows needs a year on the sidelines and then throw him out there with nothing. 

Defense is playing well and that’s all great and everything but all that emphasis should have been placed on building an offense first. I really like Josh Allen but I am afraid they are going to hurt his development by the choices they have made.

 

Andy Reid may be good at building an offense, but man, does he suck at game-day management. his decisions last night were laughably bad.

[cd1]

1 hour ago, billsfan11 said:

It is just scary how bad the personnel decisions have been on the offensive side of the ball though. I have no faith in Mcd/Beane to build a good offence.

 

Here are some of their main acquisitions on the offensive side:

 

Traded up to get Zay Jones in the 2nd round- Looks awful now

Traded a 3rd round pick for Benjamin- Goes without saying here

Hired Rico/Daboll- Daboll looks even worse than Rico

Allen- Too early to tell

 

3/4 big moves they have made have been an epic fail so far, and Allen is just to early to judge right or wrong yet but he certainly has to start playing better

 

 

What about these decisions?

Vontae Davis

Cory Coleman

Jeremy Kerley

Anquan Boldin

AJ McCarron

 

Naw, I don't believe for a minute that they can be a GOOD judge of offensive talent.

 

SAD!

[JinxedBill1]

This team is going to be bad this year on offense.  Offense will be a big focus with FA and the draft next year.  This staff has the defense all but wrapped up.  It's too bad too because the defense is hitting its stride while the offense flounders.  

 

Honestly i I knew it would be a rough year.  Ge To rid of the dead cap and cleaning house were already there.  This team overachieved last year and in a way already are this year.  That gives me hope in the future.  Some signings work out and others don't.  That's every team, I'm just glad they are trying.

 

I am worried about Daboll.  I have yet to see some amazing gameplay that adapts to the opponents weaknesses.  

Edited October 15, 2018 by JinxedBill1

[Billsfan1972]

1 minute ago, JinxedBill1 said:

This team is going to be bad this year on offense.  Offense will be a big focus with FA and the draft next year.  This staff has the defense all but wrapped up.  It's too bad too because the defense is hitting its stride while the offense flounders.  

 

Honestly i I knew it would be a rough year.  Ge To rid of the dead cap and cleaning house were already there.  This team overachieved last year and in a way already are this year.  That gives me hope in the future.

 

I am worried about Daboll.  I have yet to see some amazing gameplay that adapts to the opponents weaknesses.  

And what skill position players would have any interest in playing for the Bills.  This is a working class, cold weather destination, with coaching & FO that have  shown no ability to highlight that side of the ball.

 

The Bills would have to overpay for average talent and pray for a miracle.  

 

The Browns have Mayfield throwing the ball, same with Darnold & heck so did Rosen some yesterday. 

 

Be realistic please......  

[26TrapDraw]

Great post. Shame on the staff for letting the offense be this bad. Coaching all the way down to personnel. The defense played good enough to win this game on it's own. The offense even halfway functional would have put this more than winnable game away. Just pure garbage and the fans have a right to be infuriated. Dabolls offense is unimaginative garbage. Some of it might be on Allen as he's learning but it is just putrid stagnant Garbage. That game was more than winnable....did I mention garbage?

[MAJBobby]

1 hour ago, Dopey said:

They have their qb. Maybe not yours, but they have their qb. That was priority#1. 

Mahomes is in kc. I'm sure 9 other teams wished they took him too. Time to get over it. He's not coming through that door.

 

Sammy was not just attitude. He is not worth what he got and you would be complaining if we paid him.

 

I liked Glenn, but Dawkins is doing just fine. Nothing terrible here.

 

I didn't like Robert leaving, but the new regime was starting over.

I get it, the offense sucks. I'm giving them another year. 

A lot of folks thought the "plan" on defense sucked. Got rid of Darby and "tank" talk was the rage. Got rid of Dareus, " for a 5th?!?! Terrible move". "Keep Lorax!?!? He's old". Look at what we have now. This is a defensive minded coach, sure, but I trust they will formulate a plan for the offense and work it well. And as long as I'm not comparing it to kc, I'm good.

On that note, does anyone think KC will win the SB with that defense?!?! Wonder if KC fans are happy with that defense. They should fire Andy Ried, right now!!! JK.

After all of that, we can agree to disagree. Nothing wrong with that.

 

 

 

So nothing to point to they have ANYTHING to show they can build an offense thanks

[BillsFan130]

24 minutes ago, cd1 said:

 

 

What about these decisions?

Vontae Davis

Cory Coleman

Jeremy Kerley

Anquan Boldin

AJ McCarron

 

Naw, I don't believe for a minute that they can be a GOOD judge of offensive talent.

 

SAD!

Oh absolutely. Those are terrible as well. I was just listing the major ones .

 

They really don’t seem like they have any clue on how to build an offence

[gobills1212]

3 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Why the hate for Allen?  This staff & FO have done nothing to help Josh.  The playcalling and game plans are stuck in the 70's.  McDermott & McBeane have abandoned the offense and in their stupidity had Peterman as the starter and Allen's mentor.  Now they bring in another back-up with at least some experience, but little else.  

 

I watched yesterday and again Allen looked okay, but was playing against a stacked deck that this Bills organization is to blame for.  

 

BTW the two passes to KB were great along with that cross body to McCoy.  

 

Not much however one can do with coaches who refuse to acknowledge and have players or a system that wins games in today's NFL.

Is it really a refusal though? Could it be just not having the appropriate resources at the moment? Once they have them available i think its fair to take shots if its failing. That time doesnt seem to be upon us yet.

[MAJBobby]

57 minutes ago, GG said:

 

The only thing that they squarely missed of the options that were available was not going after Bridgewater.  I don't know who gave them medical advice, but it was clearly wrong and the guy was available for a song.   

 

It's hard to watch Mahomes light it up and not think of what could have been.  I'll chalk it up to usual Bills' luck that the front office was in transition for them to pull the obvious trigger.

 

We also don't know who else they pursued in FA that declined to work for the Bills, like John Brown.  Rishard Matthews would be a clear asset, but wants no part of Terry Robiskie.

 

And regarding your list of players that the Bills tossed aside, please tell me how much better Cordy Glenn has played than Dawkins, and why Sammy Watkins had a worse stat line than Zay Jones? 

 

Bills didn't let Robert Woods walk, they wanted to keep him.  He walked on his own.

 

Bodine was the best FA option available.  Which Pro Bowler did Newhouse replace?  The guy who can't last through a quarter of a season?

 

In retrospect, you also have to give credit to Beane for not going hogwild after Bradford, Cousins & Keenum

 

Sure. Glenn would be better than say Mills 

 

Sammy would add a better element than say I dont run routes Pre Game Benjamin. 

 

He walked. They wanted him at 3.5 a year. He walked. So yeah Still nothing. 

 

 

So i ask again. What have they dont ON OFFENSE that gives you confidence they know how to build one?

[billsfan_34]

2 hours ago, bmur66 said:

I prefer the Andy Reid approach myself. Not at all confident this team has the staff to build a high powered offense. I can’t understand how you go all in on a QB that everybody knows needs a year on the sidelines and then throw him out there with nothing. 

Defense is playing well and that’s all great and everything but all that emphasis should have been placed on building an offense first. I really like Josh Allen but I am afraid they are going to hurt his development by the choices they have made.

They seriously miscalculated the QB position. This crap regime was so sold on Peterman that they got rid of McCarron. Then they start him and he lays a giant egg. After that, the Josh Allen experiment began and he just isnt ready- way too raw! Allen gets hurt against a very beatable Texans team and Peterman comes back in and  dumps C. diff diarrhea all over the team. The worst part about all of this- McDermott hired the wrong OC/offensive staff again! We have no one that can really fix the issues that Allen has which is many. The kid has upside/talent but if he cant learn to play the next level he woll be gone in 3 years and the Bills will continue to meander around in mediocrity for another 18 years. 

Edited October 15, 2018 by billsfan_34

[teef]

it's on allen too.  it's on the buffalo bills at this point.

[MAJBobby]

52 minutes ago, papazoid said:

the FO is cleaning up the mess of overpaid and underperforming trash they inherited

 

already have over $90 mil in avail cap space for 2019...likely over $100 mil

 

that fixes a lot of problems

 

Not if they overpay bad talent 

[billsfan_34]

2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Not if they overpay bad talent 

And have an offensive coordinator who is a giant cluster F$&k

4 minutes ago, teef said:

it's on allen too.  it's on the buffalo bills at this point.

Allen hasnt played well- that said its very hard to evaluate him when we are running a pop warner offense. I have never seen a more pathetic offensive system. 

[The Real Buffalo Joe]

3 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Why the hate for Allen?  This staff & FO have done nothing to help Josh.  The playcalling and game plans are stuck in the 70's.  McDermott & McBeane have abandoned the offense and in their stupidity had Peterman as the starter and Allen's mentor.  Now they bring in another back-up with at least some experience, but little else.  

 

I watched yesterday and again Allen looked okay, but was playing against a stacked deck that this Bills organization is to blame for.  

 

BTW the two passes to KB were great along with that cross body to McCoy.  

 

Not much however one can do with coaches who refuse to acknowledge and have players or a system that wins games in today's NFL.

Other than the fact that McBeane is just a combination of McDermott and Beane, I agree with everything here.

[Billsfan1972]

3 minutes ago, The Real Buffalo Joe said:

Other than the fact that McBeane is just a combination of McDermott and Beane, I agree with everything here.

Oops.....  Got me......  They are a great pair of talking heads who have pulled the wool over many eyes.

[Dopey]

16 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

So nothing to point to they have ANYTHING to show they can build an offense thanks

To simplify, other than I trust they will put the same effort in the offense next year as the defense this year? No.

As for thanking me, wrf for? Did that make your day? 

It's for people like you that I try to calm the waters. Can't help them all. ✌

[teef]

13 minutes ago, billsfan_34 said:

 

Allen hasnt played well- that said its very hard to evaluate him when we are running a pop warner offense. I have never seen a more pathetic offensive system. 

absolutely.  the offense is just a mess. he'll get another year or two which he should.  i was just hoping it might be easy for bills fans this time, but what can ya do?

[The Real Buffalo Joe]

2 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Oops.....  Got me......  They are a great pair of talking heads who have pulled the wool over many eyes.

I'm willing to give them one more offseason to see what they do with the money that will be freed up. But my confidence level is quite low at this point.

[billsfan_34]

4 minutes ago, teef said:

absolutely.  the offense is just a mess. he'll get another year or two which he should.  i was just hoping it might be easy for bills fans this time, but what can ya do?

Nothing we can do but wait and see. The good news is we have 91 mil of cap and 10 picks next year. I wouldnt hesitate to draft another QB. 

[Reed83HOF]

 

[BillsFan2313]

3 hours ago, Kevin1778 said:

I blame it all on the idiots who destroyed this team for years and left this team in tatters. The Bills are doing a great job clearing out dead money. The goal is to win a Superbowl, not be a 9 win team every year.  They are set up perfectly to fix this team next year with a fortune in money available.

 And the new regime just had to draft Pat Mahomes, and there wouldn't have to be a rebuild....

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

35 minutes ago, The Real Buffalo Joe said:

I'm willing to give them one more offseason to see what they do with the money that will be freed up. But my confidence level is quite low at this point.

 

....2019 with 10 picks and a boatload of FA could be one of the most pivotal years in the last decade.....their performance should give a fairly decent idea as to which way this club is headed......

Edited October 15, 2018 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[RochesterRob]

1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said:

And what skill position players would have any interest in playing for the Bills.  This is a working class, cold weather destination, with coaching & FO that have  shown no ability to highlight that side of the ball.

 

The Bills would have to overpay for average talent and pray for a miracle.  

 

The Browns have Mayfield throwing the ball, same with Darnold & heck so did Rosen some yesterday. 

 

Be realistic please......  

  Players don't approach free agency like fans do.  If a player likes what he sees in the Bills he is not going to worry about weather and blue collar atmosphere most of the time.  After all it's not like he is looking to move here permanently.  At least not initially.  Best part of 2019 is we have all our picks and have just as much chance to pull 3 starters out of it as the elite teams do.  The glass is half full with the defense pretty much in place.

[Billsfan1972]

10 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  Players don't approach free agency like fans do.  If a player likes what he sees in the Bills he is not going to worry about weather and blue collar atmosphere most of the time.  After all it's not like he is looking to move here permanently.  At least not initially.  Best part of 2019 is we have all our picks and have just as much chance to pull 3 starters out of it as the elite teams do.  The glass is half full with the defense pretty much in place.

Again why so sure on the defense?  Yep playing well, but are you convinced they are that good, or maybe just a good run vs. so so teams and a great first quarter vs. Minn.

 

FA want to go where they will excel.  No way will skill posion players look at Buffalo if they continue this way on offense.

[PromoTheRobot]

I don't think the front office "refused" to do anything. The salary cap did. And they still managed to build a pretty good defense. 

[ddaryl]

I blame Allen because even a moderately unsuccessful QB would of produces more than 100 yds of passing

 

Allen is not dissecting at the LOS and is not making quick reads on any type of consistent basis. He takes way too much time holding the ball looking and waiting for open WR's, or even worse becoming a scramble 1st QB.. the very thing we want to avoid with a pocket passer

 

 

[Boatdrinks]

The undoing of this FO will be their decision to rebuild both sides of the ball. The losses will pile up and they will simply run out of time to do it. The defense needed the overhaul, especially after Wrecks Ryan. That was accomplished , and relatively cheaply. The offense should have been tweaked with a few modifications, not dismantled. They cannot compete on that side of the ball as currently constructed. Next year, the offense will have many new parts and may hit a stride in a couple years. That’s just too long in the modern NFL and it will be a new GM and HC in a few years to start yet another overhaul.