Allen not showing progress

[Kelly the Dog]

1 minute ago, LabattBlue said:

The Bills weren’t winning that game with or without Allen getting hurt.  They were lucky to win one game when your QB can’t eclipse the 100 yard mark.  They weren’t doing it two weeks in a row. 

They had a decent chance. Watson was falling apart. Our defense was on fire. 

[bouds]

26 minutes ago, JM57 said:

Technically speaking, 84 yards in 3ish quarters IS progress over 82 yards in 4. Having three fingers is also better than having none, but it still isn't good.

 

Got a good laugh from this.

 

totally agree with you.  Bar is so low that folks will take any positive event as a good sign.  I’ve seen enough from both of our QBs, I’d like a new one....

[Warcodered]

4 minutes ago, JoPar_v2 said:

The only thing i’ve seen so far that has been “as advertised” and has actually helped the team is his running ability. For such a big kid he is very fast and surprisingly elusive when he gets to the 2nd and 3rd levels on the run.

 

The arm strength is obviously there as well - and I haven’t seen it contribute to any plus plays thus far. Allen’s simply too raw, too skittish, too inside his own head and way too inaccurate for his cannon arm to make any sort of difference. 

 

Blame his weapons (they are getting open), blame his line (they are protecting adequately) all you want. You’re just making excuses and sticking your head in the sand.

Big arm does not only equal deep passes the speed he puts the ball on receivers on shorter plays is also important.

[The Process]

I will try to comment intelligently.....IS TOO IS TOO!

[BringBackOrton]

4 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

I agree. I was always for starting him but not expecting him to do well. I think this is invaluable experience for a raw rookie. The only problem is if it hurts his confidence and I just don't see that in a guy like him. 

If a QB loses confidence after a handful of rough outings, he was never going to be great, IMO.

[Figster]

Just now, LabattBlue said:

The Bills weren’t winning that game with or without Allen getting hurt.  They were lucky to win one game when your QB can’t eclipse the 100 yard mark.  They weren’t doing it two weeks in a row. 

I disagree...

 

 

[Kelly the Dog]

Just now, bouds said:

 

Got a good laugh from this.

 

totally agree with you.  Bar is so low that folks will take any positive event as a good sign.  I’ve seen enough from both of our QBs, I’d like a new one....

It wasn't Josh's fault a 40 yard great pass was denied because Daboll put the fullback wide on the other side and he couldn't figure out whether he should be on the LOS or not, a rule you learn in sixth grade. 

[Warcodered]

1 minute ago, Kelly the Dog said:

They had a decent chance. Watson was falling apart. Our defense was on fire. 

With the defense giving them good field position Allen could of easily gotten them to 9 if not more.

[Figster]

Just now, The Process said:

I will try to comment intelligently.....IS TOO IS TOO!

Well put...

[JoPar_v2]

7 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

His strong arm has contributed to at least a third of his completions so far. That's nonsense.  

Sorry I haven’t seen it. Meaning: I haven’t seen a splash passing play from Allen that a hypothetical starting QB with a perfectly “average” NFL arm could not also make. I wasn’t clear enough in my earlier post maybe. His deep balls have been terrible. They look like intentional throw aways. 

Edited October 14, 2018 by JoPar_v2

[Kelly the Dog]

Just now, BringBackOrton said:

If a QB loses confidence after a handful of rough outings, he was never going to be great, IMO.

Yep. I never really believed in the ruin a rookie theory. I don't think any of those guys were going to be good. There are only ten guys on earth at a time that are good enough to be franchise QBs and one of the most important qualities is mental toughness x100.  

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, JoPar_v2 said:

Sorry I haven’t seen it. Meaning: I haven’t seen a splash passing play from Allen that a hypothical starting QB with a perfectly “average” NFL arm could not also make. I wasn’t clear enough in my earlier post maybe. His deep balls have been terrible. They look like intentional throw aways. 

Did you see the ball to KB that got wiped away by penalty?

 

Or the ball to Shady across his body running in the opposite direction?

 

I watched Jay Cutler in his prime try that exact same pass Allen tried to Shady and it hit Kyle Williams in the numbers.  Cutler, as you should know, had one of the best arms in the NFL at the time.  

[Buddy Hix]

Progress? Allen looks worse now than he did to start the season, the kid is shell shocked and now has happy feet, not to mention being gun shy.

 

Beane botched this entire process, and I’m sure it’s going to cost him his job after next season. 

 

I don’t think Allen was ever going to turn into a franchise QB, but at least the kid deserved a shot. Beane, having no plan at the position, has forced the kid into an untenable situation,  and I think the slim chance Allen could have been good has been reduced even further.

[OldTimer1960]

6 minutes ago, JoPar_v2 said:

The only thing i’ve seen so far that has been “as advertised” and has actually helped the team is his running ability. For such a big kid he is very fast and surprisingly elusive when he gets to the 2nd and 3rd levels on the run.

 

The arm strength is obviously there as well - and I haven’t seen it contribute to any plus plays thus far. Allen’s simply too raw, too skittish, too inside his own head and way too inaccurate for his cannon arm to make any sort of difference. 

 

Blame his weapons (they are getting open), blame his line (they are protecting adequately) all you want. You’re just making excuses and sticking your head in the sand.

I am just not seeing the inaccuracy that some continue to beat the drum about.  When he throws “in rhythm” he has been quite accurate.  When he has to throw on the run or he doesn’t “see it” early and has to reset, less so, but still not alarming.  

 

What concerns me is his ability to process what he is seeing, yet I really wonder if anyone is open on many plays.

[BringBackOrton]

1 minute ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Yep. I never really believed in the ruin a rookie theory. I don't think any of those guys were going to be good. There are only ten guys on earth at a time that are good enough to be franchise QBs and one of the most important qualities is mental toughness x100.  

Agreed. You probably could ruin a guy who could be a journeyman/backup though.  Oh well.

[MAJBobby]

8 minutes ago, fansince88 said:

Tell me Nate has used his 2 years up already.

 

 

5th round pick. 

[K-9]

4 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

They had a decent chance. Watson was falling apart. Our defense was on fire. 

If not for the bounce of the ball on that forced fumble on Houston's last drive, Peterman is lining up in the victory formation and we win that game. So Fing close!

[Teddy KGB]

Embarrassing over the top takes from the anti Allen crowd 

 

delete your account shout-out goes to 

 

-guy that said Allen is Logan Thomas 

-guy that said Allen was a 3rd-5th round pick 

 

You guys are bad at this.    

 

[SACTOBILLSFAN]

The offense was averaging 3.6 yards per play coming into today and that number will go down after what they just did. For context, that would rank dead last since yards per play started being tracked in 2003. It was a completely different league in 2003, so this is utterly embarrassing.

 

Allen is awful even though it's not entirely his fault, but if he had any hope moving forward he wouldn't be running an offense that is historically inept. I actually think the real problem is the miserably bad front office and head coach. If you can't pass in this league you will not win. They puposely put all of their resources into the defense which is a losing strategy in 2018 and completely ignored the offense. Then, they drafted a QB in the top 10 and either thought he was ready or they thought Nathan Peterman was ready to be an NFL QB. They were either completely wrong on both assessments, which means they're bad at their jobs or they had no plan at all, which means they're bad at their jobs. They are complete dumpster fire of an organization because they don't plan and they can't evaluate talent. Fun times in Western New York. 

[Figster]

7 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

They had a decent chance. Watson was falling apart. Our defense was on fire. 

Probably one of the biggest things that happened today that may get overlooked was Allen finding his go to guy in Benjamin IMO.

Edited October 14, 2018 by Figster

[Bill_with_it]

3 minutes ago, JoPar_v2 said:

Sorry I haven’t seen it. Meaning: I haven’t seen a splash passing play from Allen that a hypothical starting QB with a perfectly “average” NFL arm could not also make. I wasn’t clear enough in my earlier post maybe. His deep balls have been terrible. They look like intentional throw aways. 

Bs the pass that he made when watt was chasing him and he was on his back foot tippy toes and then the cross body to shady for a first down. There are two stop being ridiculously childish.

[Kelly the Dog]

2 minutes ago, K-9 said:

If not for the bounce of the ball on that forced fumble on Houston's last drive, Peterman is lining up in the victory formation and we win that game. So Fing close!

Yep. Watson was incredibly careless. And he's good. 

[targetweight185]

Allen's biggest strength is his ability to throw the ball down the field. He has the potential to be better than anyone in the NFL for 20+ yard throws. His short passing game leaves a lot to be desired and will have to improve if he wants to be an elite QB. We all knew he was a project that would take a couple years to fulfill his potential. So far, he's been about on schedule given the circumstances. Even the great Peyton Manning threw 28 int's in his first year.

 

Allen made a few phenomenal throws today. One was called back. One was for zero yards that showed ridiculous arm strength with Watt pushing him back.

 

Calling to draft another QB is crazy. If he hadn't been injured we probably win and JA is 3-1 as a starter. The most important thing is to win, not completion percentage.

Edited October 14, 2018 by targetweight

[GG]

3 minutes ago, K-9 said:

If not for the bounce of the ball on that forced fumble on Houston's last drive, Peterman is lining up in the victory formation and we win that game. So Fing close!

 

Good thing it bounced in Houston's direction, if you catch my drift.

[JoPar_v2]

5 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Did you see the ball to KB that got wiped away by penalty?

 

Or the ball to Shady across his body running in the opposite direction?

 

I watched Jay Cutler in his prime try that exact same pass Allen tried to Shady and it hit Kyle Williams in the numbers.  Cutler, as you should know, had one of the best arms in the NFL at the time.  

Yes the throw that was wiped away today was a showcase of his arm - shame it didn’t count.

 

The McCoy throw was a bad decision that worked out and that throw didn’t really travel that far in the air - Allen did find a throwing lane through the backside of the defense though and muscled it out there so good for him. I am not exactly hoping for repeats of those types of plays though. He also tried to do the same thing to the end zone and threw an embarrassing pick.

Edited October 14, 2018 by JoPar_v2

[zow2]

Osweiler 380, Rosen 240, Darnold 280...just another week in the NFL.  Our guy can’t even get out of double digits.  

Look im giving Allen two full seasons before I make any serious judgements, it’s early. But so far I’m concerned.  I don’t know how many rookies put up such paltry numbers and then come

back to have a great career.  I know Aikman did horrible his first year.  He’s an exception.  I haven’t checked but I think EJ and Geno Smith has better numbers as rookies thus far.  Not good.  

[BringBackOrton]

2 minutes ago, JoPar_v2 said:

Yes the throw that was wiped away today was a showcase of his arm - shame it didn’t count.

 

The McCoy throw was a bad decision that worked out and that throw didn’t really travel that far in the air - Allen did find a throwing lane through the backside of the defense though and muscled it out there so good for him. I am not exactly hoping for repeats of those types of plays though. He also tried to do the same thing to the end zone and threw an embarrassing pick.

Just because it got wiped away doesn't mean he didn't throw it.  You asked for throws, not plays that didn't stand due to away from the ball penalties.

 

No doubt the McCoy throw was a bad decision.  I cringed watching it.  It was still a great throw that most NFL QB's won't throw, mostly because they can't get it there. He was on one freaking foot.

[billsfan_34]

10 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

It wasn't Josh's fault a 40 yard great pass was denied because Daboll put the fullback wide on the other side and he couldn't figure out whether he should be on the LOS or not, a rule you learn in sixth grade. 

Every week DiMarco does something extremely stupid- this week he lined up on the line- if you arent a lineman only 1 can line up on the line.

[JoPar_v2]

15 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

Big arm does not only equal deep passes the speed he puts the ball on receivers on shorter plays is also important.

Sure does. But you’ve got to be accurate on those short to intermediate throws as well in order to take advantage of your arm strength to fit in into those windows. I see Allen still throwing behind receivers, at their feet, or throwing late and missing his window on those short routes, in effect negating that potential ability to fire balls in there with his arm strength.

Edited October 14, 2018 by JoPar_v2

[MAJBobby]

So glad we have QB guru David Culley working with him. 

 

And world class QB whisperer Daboll also aiding. 

 

Now it is complete with Big Arm inaccurate Mentor Anderson in the fold. 

[bouds]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

So glad we have QB guru David Culley working with him. 

 

And world class QB whisperer Daboll also aiding. 

 

Now it is complete with Big Arm inaccurate Mentor Anderson in the fold. 

All the mentoring in the world won’t turn him around.

 

 

[Warcodered]

1 minute ago, JoPar_v2 said:

Sure does. But you’ve got to be accurate on those short to intermediate throws as well in order to take advantage of your arm strength to fit in into those windows. I see Allen still throwing behind receivers, at their feet, or throwing late and missing his window on those short routes, in effect negating that potential ability to fire balls in there with his arm strength.

Did he do that a lot today because I remember the one at the beginning but other than that I'm drawing a blank. The only other miss I saw was that one deep throw to Benjamin but I'm not sure he wasn't just throwing it away.

[Kelly the Dog]

3 minutes ago, billsfan_34 said:

Every week DiMarco does something extremely stupid- this week he lined up on the line- if you arent a lineman only 1 can line up on the line.

It's  possible that the WR to his right should have been off the line which would have made it legal. The refs call a certain player with the penalty because they have to and that is the official rule but it's not always their fault. I'm not making an excuse for Dimarco. It's Dabolls fault for having him out there in the first place. But it was not automatically his fault. One of the two guys needed to be on the line and one off. They both were on which made it illegal. 

[Scott7975]

13 minutes ago, Buddy Hix said:

Progress? Allen looks worse now than he did to start the season, the kid is shell shocked and now has happy feet, not to mention being gun shy.

 

Beane botched this entire process, and I’m sure it’s going to cost him his job after next season. 

 

I don’t think Allen was ever going to turn into a franchise QB, but at least the kid deserved a shot. Beane, having no plan at the position, has forced the kid into an untenable situation,  and I think the slim chance Allen could have been good has been reduced even further.

I don't think he is shell shocked at all.  I think Daboll is coaching him badly.

[BringBackOrton]

3 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

So glad we have QB guru David Culley working with him. 

 

And world class QB whisperer Daboll also aiding. 

 

Now it is complete with Big Arm inaccurate Mentor Anderson in the fold. 

What QB coach has a great success rate with rookies?

[Kelly the Dog]

Just now, BringBackOrton said:

What QB coach has a great success rate with rookies?

There are some. The problem with Curley is that he is not a QB coach he is a WR coach. He's been a coach for like 30 years and never really was a QB in the NFL. It made no sense when they hired him. 

[JoPar_v2]

3 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Just because it got wiped away doesn't mean he didn't throw it.  You asked for throws, not plays that didn't stand due to away from the ball penalties.

 

No doubt the McCoy throw was a bad decision.  I cringed watching it.  It was still a great throw that most NFL QB's won't throw, mostly because they can't get it there. He was on one freaking foot.

I got you but my original comment was related to throws of consequence. Obviously a play wiped out via penalty can’t have any consequence on the game. 

 

If he puts more of those throws out there and they actually count, I’ll change my tune for sure. Right now I just haven't seen enough to justify anyone who continues to point to his arm strength as a tool that we should all be salivating over still. Means nothing to me if he continues with the accuracy and awareness issues. 

 

Hey maybe he just has bad coaches. I am starting to think that may be a bigger problem than most of us realize.

[jrober38]

6 minutes ago, zow2 said:

Osweiler 380, Rosen 240, Darnold 280...just another week in the NFL.  Our guy can’t even get out of double digits.  

Look im giving Allen two full seasons before I make any serious judgements, it’s early. But so far I’m concerned.  I don’t know how many rookies put up such paltry numbers and then come

back to have a great career.  I know Aikman did horrible his first year.  He’s an exception.  I haven’t checked but I think EJ and Geno Smith has better numbers as rookies thus far.  Not good.  

 

Allen has looked like a 3rd string QB. 

 

Aside from his running ability, which defenses have begun taking away with a simply spy, there has been very little about his game that suggests he's going to make it long term. 

 

His pocket presence is deteriorating and we have no passing game whatsoever with him under centre. I thought he'd be bad, but our offense has been unwatchable with him on the field. 

[MAJBobby]

Just now, BringBackOrton said:

What QB coach has a great success rate with rookies?

 

Keep your blind love. 

 

Allen has a Career WR coach as his QB coach, an OC who when he left his college team they become explosive passing the Ball and a QB that well has never been good all trying to develop a raw QB. 

 

Yeah that screams Success 

[JoPar_v2]

4 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

Did he do that a lot today because I remember the one at the beginning but other than that I'm drawing a blank. The only other miss I saw was that one deep throw to Benjamin but I'm not sure he wasn't just throwing it away.

Only saw the one today yes but he’s put a few out there like that in the past few weeks and they looked pretty much exactly like the incompletion today.