jrober38 Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 2 hours ago, ScottLaw said: He shouldn't be playing. But they don't have a choice. Totally agree. But we're 2-3 with the worst QB play I've seen from the Bills in at least 15 years. Imagine if we'd gone out and signed a real veteran who could keep Allen on the bench all year. We might have a pretty good team if we had just average QB play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzReaper Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Well they pigeon holed themselves into having to start Allen out of neccessity... All we can do now is hope he learns and improves as the games go by. He's been bad but he has some good things going for him too. I'm just hoping the guy can keep learning and progressing and doesn't run into a wall. If he can improve with every game we should be in a good spot next season. He has some nice physical attributes he just has to get the mental stuff down now. Has to keep grinding every week to improve on whatever he can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 1 minute ago, TheElectricCompany said: That's the Josh Allen way. We explain away every reason why his statistics have been terrible. You just jumped on 'worst completion percentage in the league' so fast you missed the part where Rosen's is worse. 2 minutes ago, jrober38 said: Because he looks worse than the other rookie QBs I'm watching. When your QB is the worst QB in the league, you should be evaluating everything they do. When you're the worst, you have to get a lot better just to be average. Mayfield is really the only one who's stood out. Darnold and Rosen do not look significantly different from Allen. And Jackson isn't even a QB right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stosh64 Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 6 hours ago, BillsFan17 said: 3) Josh Rosen is on a team many have felt were worse than the Bills, and yet is playing very good ball. Rosens stats from last Sun. Josh Rosen 10/25 170 1 0 Very good ball? I guess that is a matter of opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Just now, GoBills808 said: You just jumped on 'worst completion percentage in the league' so fast you missed the part where Rosen's is worse. Mayfield is really the only one who's stood out. Darnold and Rosen do not look significantly different from Allen. And Jackson isn't even a QB right now. Jrob I am sure will find some meaningless stat that he will try to cling to so he can hate on his own QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: If you expect it then why are you bitching? Because his play is holding the team back. We have an elite defense and a QB who is struggling with the very basics. We might have a pretty good team on our hands if we weren't scoring 12.6 freaking points per game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Success Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 9 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: The question is why are you evaluating a rookie QB 5 games in? That is the better question. I actually thought Josh was pretty inaccurate this past game...... but It is amazing how a good wide receiver can scoop up a low pass and make something happen with it.....and then you have Kelvin Benjamin who wont even give the effort to come back for the ball. True, and he certainly isn’t what I’d call an accurate QB yet. I just think this is a weird thread. I could understand some of the comments if this was year 3, but not 5 games in 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 1 minute ago, stosh64 said: Rosens stats from last Sun. Josh Rosen 10/25 170 1 0 Very good ball? I guess that is a matter of opinion. Yet Josh Allen's stats were significantly worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Just now, jrober38 said: Yet Josh Allen's stats were significantly worse. Did you watch that game, though? 75 of those yards + the TD came from one broken coverage. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Success said: True, and he certainly isn’t what I’d call an accurate QB yet. I just think this is a weird thread. I could understand some of the comments if this was year 3, but not 5 games in What I find wierd (but not suprising given some of the rift raft that our board has taken on over this past year Doing this in a week whee the bills actually won You usually dont have to hear this crap after a win......but that is the state of the board 1 minute ago, jrober38 said: Yet Josh Allen's stats were significantly worse. Did you even bother to watch the friggen game? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheElectricCompany Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: You just jumped on 'worst completion percentage in the league' so fast you missed the part where Rosen's is worse. Mayfield is really the only one who's stood out. Darnold and Rosen do not look significantly different from Allen. And Jackson isn't even a QB right now. Mayfield looks tremendous, can't speak to the others yet. But yeah, Allen is 31st! Woohoo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 10 minutes ago, jrober38 said: Because he looks worse than the other rookie QBs I'm watching. When your QB is the worst QB in the league, you should be evaluating everything they do. When you're the worst, you have to get a lot better just to be average. Say it every time with your takes. You're the guy that would have traded everything for Winston, a guy who sits behind Fitzpatrick. Your analysis of QBs has little value. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Just now, TheElectricCompany said: Mayfield looks tremendous, can't speak to the others yet. But yeah, Allen is 31st! Woohoo. 5 games in. It's pointless talking rankings after such a small sample. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McNubbins Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Nobody said of Allen before the draft that he would be good if you threw him in week 1 and started him the rest of the season. He had the most growing to do of the top QBs in the draft. Unfortunately, he has to grow on the job. The past couple weeks he's looked like JP Losman 2.0, but just because he didn't come in like a savior doesn't mean he can't be good. Give it time. If we still have these concerns in a year's time, that's when we should be concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Success Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 I love watching Mayfield - he is the best of the lot so far. Impossible to compare, though. He has a lot more to work with right now. And Allen is just a different kind of QB. He’s as competitive as anyone. I like the intangibles I’ve seen so far. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 1 minute ago, McNubbins said: Nobody said of Allen before the draft that he would be good if you threw him in week 1 and started him the rest of the season. He had the most growing to do of the top QBs in the draft. Unfortunately, he has to grow on the job. The past couple weeks he's looked like JP Losman 2.0, but just because he didn't come in like a savior doesn't mean he can't be good. Give it time. If we still have these concerns in a year's time, that's when we should be concerned. Its like the expectations became different just because they announced him the starter Tons of talent Raw as hell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Raw rookie looks raw, not shocking but I do agree with the article the best thing for him to do is play. The game will slow down the more he is exposed to it. Allen is by all accounts a hardworker so I expect him to progress with more playing time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Folks just getting their takes in now so if he busts down the road they can say they called it first ??...supposed to be Bills fans, not draft analysts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said: that was a great comeback... It had to be pointed out. Shame he took so much time throwing shade at Ledyard's credentials. 5 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Folks just getting their takes in now so if he busts down the road they can say they called it first ??...supposed to be Bills fans, not draft analysts. Bad take. Plenty of people here have been critiquing Allen well before he was drafted by the Bills. Edited October 9, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheElectricCompany Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 (edited) 12 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: 5 games in. It's pointless talking rankings after such a small sample. He had poor stats at Wyoming. He has poor stats in Buffalo. At some point, the guy has to actually put up top tier QB statistics, right? This is the problem with Josh. He has never had passing statistics that scream "elite QB", and we really want to see the data match the hype for once. Edited October 9, 2018 by TheElectricCompany 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cash Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 1 hour ago, jrober38 said: Allen has mostly been terrible so far, but the pleasant surprise is that the defense has been outstanding since halftime of the Chargers game. The Bills look like they're a QB and #1 WR away from having an actual contender of a football team. I'd add in 2-3 O-linemen, but otherwise I agree. I'm not sold on Daboll yet, but I'm not convinced he sucks, either. 7 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Folks just getting their takes in now so if he busts down the road they can say they called it first ??...supposed to be Bills fans, not draft analysts. To be fair - many, many professionals and amateurs called Allen as a bust long before the Bills drafted him. So it's way too late to be first. 1 minute ago, TheElectricCompany said: He had poor stats at Wyoming. He has poor stats in Buffalo. At some point, the guy has to actually put up top tier QB statistics, right? This is the problem with Josh. He has never had passing statistics that scream "elite QB", and we really want to see the data match the hype for once. The pre-draft comparison that really scared me was Jake Locker. Both had a lot of the same excuses for their college stats. And it seemed crazy to me to draft a "project" QB in the top 10. So I'm not surprised Allen's not playing well this soon into his career. And with the offense around him, there's a limit to his upside this year at least. But I'd like to see him progress and improve as the season goes on (and take a huge leap next season), so I think it's worthwhile to evaluate him every step of the way. If he's consistently looking better in December than he did in September, I'll be a lot more optimistic heading into the offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 16 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Folks just getting their takes in now so if he busts down the road they can say they called it first ??...supposed to be Bills fans, not draft analysts. Well, I’ll get my take in now. I don’t know how good he will end up being; however, I do think he will eventually be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatComeback Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 1 hour ago, 26CornerBlitz said: It doesn't tell me anything. They are either correct in their analysis or they aren't with knowledgeable breakdowns of QB traits, mechanics, etc. Sorry but I trust reliable opinions. People who have actually evaluated players for a living. Not a couple of fan boys who coach high school sports and have less NFL experience than the janitor at One Bills Drive. As I said, my problem is with people who post their takes as though they are gospel. Enjoy it for the entertainment value but these two are highly unqualified to legitimately evaluate NFL football players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, GreatComeback said: Sorry but I trust reliable opinions. People who have actually evaluated players for a living. Not a couple of fan boys who coach high school sports and have less NFL experience than the janitor at One Bills Drive. As I said, my problem is with people who post their takes as though they are gospel. Enjoy it for the entertainment value but these two are highly unqualified to legitimately evaluate NFL football players. Guys like Buddy Nix or Matt Millen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Beard Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 32 minutes ago, McNubbins said: Nobody said of Allen before the draft that he would be good if you threw him in week 1 and started him the rest of the season. He had the most growing to do of the top QBs in the draft. Unfortunately, he has to grow on the job. The past couple weeks he's looked like JP Losman 2.0, but just because he didn't come in like a savior doesn't mean he can't be good. Give it time. If we still have these concerns in a year's time, that's when we should be concerned. I think he’s Rob Johnson 2.0. More rugged than Losman. I am am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. This could be a throwaway year for the Bills. As long as he stays healthy, let’s see what happens next year with another off season to practice and learn, likely better receivers, likely better O line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par73 Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Allen, not surprisingly, looks a lot like he did at Wyoming. Whether he can learn to read opposing defenses downfield and improve his mechanics are the big questions. Based on what I've seen over the years, far more QB's fail than succeed when they come to the NFL as raw as Allen is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 27 minutes ago, TheElectricCompany said: He had poor stats at Wyoming. Through 5 NFL games He has poor stats in Buffalo. At some point, the guy has to actually put up top tier QB statistics, right? This is the problem with Josh. He has never had passing statistics that scream "elite QB", and we really want to see the data match the hype for once. Fixed it for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChronicAndKnuckles Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 1 hour ago, jrober38 said: I expected him to look exactly how he's looked so far, which is that he's the worst starting QB in the NFL right now. 19 passes for 82 yards is the problem. 4.3 YPA in 2018 is as bad a passing game as you should see in the NFL anymore. It would really help if the Bills receivers could make routine catches and didn't have the highest drop rate in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 11 minutes ago, Gray Beard said: I think he’s Rob Johnson 2.0. More rugged than Losman. I am am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. This could be a throwaway year for the Bills. As long as he stays healthy, let’s see what happens next year with another off season to practice and learn, likely better receivers, likely better O line. Agree. He is so raw I think we may have to wait until the end of the 2019 season before knowing what we have in Josh. Of course it is also possible that things break one way or the other before then but I tend to doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 45 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Bad take. Plenty of people here have been critiquing Allen well before he was drafted by the Bills. It's just too early to say definitively how he's going to end up. Realistically everyone is guessing. Games Passing Rushing Scoring Year Tm G GS Cmp Att Inc Cmp% Yds TD Int Rate Sk Yds Y/A AY/A Att Yds Y/A TD TD Pts Per Game Average 17.6 32.2 14.6 175.8 0.8 1 3 27.6 1.2 2.4 0.2 0.2 1.2 2016-2016 RAM 5 5 88 161 73 54.66 879 4 5 65.7 15 138 5.46 4.56 6 12 2.00 1 1 6 Above is Goff's chart through his first 5 games. Below is Allen's. They're not dissimilar at all, in fact Allen's numbers are very similar to Goff's with respect to passing. Games Passing Rushing Scoring Year Tm G GS Cmp Att Inc Cmp% Yds TD Int Rate Sk Yds Y/A AY/A Att Yds Y/A TD TD Pts Per Game Average 13 24.4 11.4 149.6 0.4 1 3.8 30.2 6.2 27 0.6 0.6 3.6 Per 16 Games 208 390 182 2394 6 16 61 483 99 432 10 10 58 2018-2018 BUF 5 4 65 122 57 53.28 748 2 5 60.4 19 151 6.13 4.61 31 135 4.35 3 3 18 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Just now, GoBills808 said: It's just too early to say definitively how he's going to end up. Realistically everyone is guessing. Games Passing Rushing Scoring Year Tm G GS Cmp Att Inc Cmp% Yds TD Int Rate Sk Yds Y/A AY/A Att Yds Y/A TD TD Pts Per Game Average 17.6 32.2 14.6 175.8 0.8 1 3 27.6 1.2 2.4 0.2 0.2 1.2 2016-2016 RAM 5 5 88 161 73 54.66 879 4 5 65.7 15 138 5.46 4.56 6 12 2.00 1 1 6 Above is Goff's chart through his first 5 games. Below is Allen's. They're not dissimilar at all, in fact Allen's numbers are very similar to Goff's with respect to passing. Games Passing Rushing Scoring Year Tm G GS Cmp Att Inc Cmp% Yds TD Int Rate Sk Yds Y/A AY/A Att Yds Y/A TD TD Pts Per Game Average 13 24.4 11.4 149.6 0.4 1 3.8 30.2 6.2 27 0.6 0.6 3.6 Per 16 Games 208 390 182 2394 6 16 61 483 99 432 10 10 58 2018-2018 BUF 5 4 65 122 57 53.28 748 2 5 60.4 19 151 6.13 4.61 31 135 4.35 3 3 18 I agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayoffsPlease Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Allen is tied for the most wins among the four rookies who are starting. Lets leave it at that now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills11 Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 There are actual valid points in the article..so far Allen is exhibiting the same issues he had at Wyoming .. inconsistent mechanics..his mechanics are breaking down under duress ..play recognition and ability to throw the proper passes in the right situations . Like Ive said on prior occasions Allen is a project whatever way you want to slice it the hope is his physical talents once he puts it together mentally will allow him to shine. But as of now Allen is behind the other QBs in terms of the aspects of being a quarterback..rosen and Mayfield forget the nnumbers both throw from a firm base and have consistent mechanics and mentally are ahead atm. But the bills knew that going in its only a couple games in and he's also shown flashes of putting it together wait till next year to evaluate him right now he's just learning . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatComeback Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 1 hour ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Guys like Buddy Nix or Matt Millen. Or GM’s who are actually successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, GreatComeback said: Sorry but I trust reliable opinions. People who have actually evaluated players for a living. Not a couple of fan boys who coach high school sports and have less NFL experience than the janitor at One Bills Drive. As I said, my problem is with people who post their takes as though they are gospel. Enjoy it for the entertainment value but these two are highly unqualified to legitimately evaluate NFL football players. What you're saying is you trust people who almost never trash young QB's. The people I assume you're talking about make it a point to not have controversial takes. You're very unlikely to hear Bill Polian or Trent Dilfer say a guy is a surefire bust even if they may privately believe it. Edited October 9, 2018 by LSHMEAB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatComeback Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 8 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: What you're saying is you trust people who almost never trash young QB's. The people I assume you're talking about make it a point to not have controversial takes. You're very unlikely to hear Bill Polian or Trent Dilfer say a guy is a surefire bust even if they may privately believe it. No I trust the opinions of people who have actually held a position in the NFL. Not just some fans passing as experts. If you read their takes for entertainment then it’s cool, but these guys don’t have an informed opinion. They are amateurs trying to pass themselves off as pros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuckyBoys Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Mayfield has looked great, rest look like nfl rookies. Allen is not a finished product. Your not going to see that till maybe end of 2019. Maybe even 2020 season. Long as he does not repeat the same mistakes he will be fine. He wasn't asked to do much against the Titans. Texans are good against the run so I expect he will have to try and carry more of the load this Sunday. So we can cheer for him to do well. If he does you can put away the torches and pitchforks. If he stinks it up all you haters can come on here and crow about. Its how its going to be for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatComeback Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, DuckyBoys said: Mayfield has looked great, rest look like nfl rookies. Allen is not a finished product. Your not going to see that till maybe end of 2019. Maybe even 2020 season. Long as he does not repeat the same mistakes he will be fine. He wasn't asked to do much against the Titans. Texans are good against the run so I expect he will have to try and carry more of the load this Sunday. So we can cheer for him to do well. If he does you can put away the torches and pitchforks. If he stinks it up all you haters can come on here and crow about. Its how its going to be for a while. So we have to wait 3 years? No we should have a good idea by the Of the year 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuckyBoys Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 1 minute ago, GreatComeback said: So we have to wait 3 years? No we should have a good idea by the Of the year Good luck with that Barring some kind of meltdown hes going to be here for years to come. Goff was horrible year one and turned it around. Bradshaw was awful for years. He's a smart guy, the pre snap stuff and knowing where to go with the football is going to get better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, GreatComeback said: So we have to wait 3 years? No we should have a good idea by the Of the year That's my take here. It seems like people are setting up this idea that we're gonna have to wait YEARS before we know what we have with Allen. If we start seeing progress, we're all gonna be happy. That doesn't mean he's gonna light the league on fire. A)He's a rookie. B) The supporting cast is not good. That does not mean we'll have zero clue about Allen if he doesn't show signs of progress. At some point, if it doesn't work, we'll have to look elsewhere. That may be a ways off, but it's not 2025. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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