Officiating Consistency ( Defenseless Receiver and Helmet to Helmet )

[bills11]

The officiating across the NFL as a whole is criminal..the bills got boned on a few calls today . The browns just got completely robbed by the refs 

 

[Boatdrinks]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

https://mobile.twitter.com/NFLFootballOps/status/1043938488868048897

 

from official NFL operations

 

says it was defenseless receiver not helmet to helmet 

Not surprising for the NFL to double down on stupid, they rarely admit their errors. The radio and TV announcers thought it was helmet to helmet when the flag was thrown, not a defenseless receiver. He didn’t appear defenseless at all. 

2 minutes ago, billsredneck1 said:

bull ****...led to/ went for helmet to helmet.....

Watch again, he went for the ball and didn’t even look at Benjamin. Again, if that was T White on defense and they threw a flag we’d all be incensed and rightly so. 

[KW95 - JA17]

6 minutes ago, mead107 said:

 Change the spot on the Browns game. Bull crap 

tv shows holding and refs don’t see it.  

It is a lot of bad and in consistent calls. 

Only way to straighten it out is to fine the Refs. 

Make them pay. 

 

Browns got hosed 3 times in this game:

 

1- Fumble on Carr

2- First down to ice the game

3- Lynch getting 10 yards.  Defender in front of him held and couldnt do anything but let him go by.

[Real McClappy]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

https://mobile.twitter.com/NFLFootballOps/status/1043938488868048897

 

from official NFL operations

 

says it was defenseless receiver not helmet to helmet 

Was a perfect play and stop

 

 

[billsredneck1]

it looked like today's officiating was payback for last week.....

[Livinginthepast]

For a league that generates this much money, how in the hell can they justify such a low standard of quality with these officials. They miss stuff regularly, they call phantom penalties that the networks strangely don't take a 2nd look with replay at even though some of the penalties can change the course of a game. Then when instant replay gives some extra clarity to a confusing play, Al Rivieron or whoever it is on in the league office making the call from the booth completely ignores what the HD cameras are showing.  The Josh Allen "fumble" was an absolute joke today. Good thing the game was already out of reach and it made no difference but both knees were clearly on the ground before the ball came out. Then the Cleveland first down call?? They overturned a GOOD call on the field despite having no evidence to do so!!! What the hell is going on? Perhaps the NFL should have officials on the field and in the booth who have 20/20 vision or don't need coke bottle thick reading glasses? Beyond ridiculous!

[Johnnycage46]

I came here hoping to see someone eating steak or burgers with some officials

[ehfeuh57]

so now we know: you can hit a WR's head as hard as you want if you have your arms stretched out

 

our DB's should always target with their arms stretched out

Edited October 1, 2018 by DrDare

[LABILLBACKER]

3 hours ago, Fadingpain said:

It was incidental contact, and the correct non-call.

 

Watch Clinton-Dix on the replay.  He was looking back at the QB and the ball when he caught it; Benjamin was off to his side and I'm sure the "hit" surprised C.D. as much as it surprised Benjamin.

 

Basically both players moved into the same space at the same time in an effort to catch the football, while neither player was concerned about what the other was doing or where they were.

 

That was the correct non-call and I think most officials would see it that way.

 

As an aside, I think officiating in the NFL is the worst in all of N.American major league sports, and this game today in particular was very poorly called.

But I don't have an issue with the play you draw attention to.

 

 

Exactly,  I have less concern about the KB hit but Hughes getting held all day long has got to end. Oh and even Fouts said Josh's knees were both down. If that was a SB they would've spent a lot more time and it probably gets reversed.  Each year NFL officiating gets worse. 

[Boatdrinks]

19 minutes ago, DrDare said:

so now we know: you can hit a WR's head as hard as you want if you have your arms stretched out

 

our DB's should always target with their arms stretched out

Massive oversimplification here.... The DB had as good or better a shot at that ball as KB did. This doesn’t always happen, obviously. Doing what you describe will get a flag in a vast majority of situations. 

[Not at the table Karlos]

4 hours ago, Matty the Dustmop said:

Why have instant replay when it clearly showed Allens knee down and then the ball comes out, many missed   holding calls and a facemask or two

Or 4

[row_33]

7 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

There have been way less egregious ones called

 

Consistency. They have none

 

 

It’s not possible to keep everyone happy

 

if you watch games with fans of both teams in the same room, a common room in a dorm or a sports bar, both sides will whine and cry all through the game that their team is getting screwed over

 

even when a team is winning 35-0! their fans are convinced they are getting screwed by the refs

 

”kill the ump” is a huge part of fan enjoyment, will never be removed 

 

 

[Buddo]

Bad officiating is the ruination of any sport. The NFL has more than its fair share of it.

 

It would seem that they can't even be consistent in how they are going to apply new rules, on a week to week basis, league wide.

 

Still, they were consistent yesterday, as they didn't call any holding on Hughes, at all.

 

Hopefully the Bills, or McDermott/Beane/Pegula, whoever is responsible for doing so, sends a nice little cut up of non holding calls to the NFL, and asks for an explanation.

 

Probably every week.

 

The Bills yesterday, due to how bad they were offensively, couldn't have won that game in a month of Sundays, but the Packers didn't need to have had it made so easy for them, by typically poor officiating.

 

I'm not entirely sure about the helmet to helmet one with Benjamin. I think there's a chance it could have gone either way. I don't think for one moment, that it was deliberate, however, and that is what probably should be defining that call.

 

Similarly, I thought he non call when Edmunds sacked Rodgers, was a good call, although I could see where it might have gone the other way - especially recently.

 

Two things sort of stood out about that, one of which was Rodgers ended up on his side more. The other being that it looked to me that Edmunds took some weight off of Rodgers, by landing with some arm extension.

 

It would be nice to have a few games where nobody feels obliged to complain about the officiating, as that might mean they have done a good job.

[PoppaBen]

Hughes getting held was driving me nuts...Can't call that when Rodgers about to make a play though right?!!!

[CLTbills]

12 hours ago, the skycap said:

It was HORRIBLE today!! The hit on Benjamin was case in point!! Hughes got held ALL DAY. And the pick routes that the Packers employed were being called out by Fouts.

ditto on Hughes. He was getting held on almost every play.

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[Soda Popinski]

IDK if this ref job was payback for embarrassing the Vikings last week but it felt like we weren't going to get any calls all day and that turned out to be the case.   Hughes was held all day, in fact they had a great video of him with the LT actually grabbing the back of his jersey to keep him from pursuing the ball carrier it was laughable they could have called holding all day there.   

 

Not that it had much effect on the outcome of the game, we couldn't move the ball to save our lives.    Couldn't catch the ball either. 

[CaptnCoke11]

14 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Yes he has the right but you still CANNOT make helmet contact even if unintended 

Helmet to helmet contact happens every play somewhere in the field.  It’s the intent part your missing.  Just cause someone’s helmet hits another players doesn’t mean it’s a penalty 

[row_33]

9 minutes ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

Helmet to helmet contact happens every play somewhere in the field.  It’s the intent part your missing.  Just cause someone’s helmet hits another players doesn’t mean it’s a penalty 

 

for sure... anyone with a brain can tell what they mean by an ejectable hit

 

must suck for some spending three hours watching only to see if Hughes was held or helmets clashed and then having a Rumpelstiltskin rage every time you pretend you saw it

 

i mean it sucks for anyone who is in the life of someone who insists on watching sports just to bash officials...

[DtownB2]

14 hours ago, Shotgunner said:

I didn't see a penalty there on KB...

 

... But some of the most egregious holds I've ever seen not called, especially on Hughes.

 

For sure. 

First drive where GB scored a TD. Obviously block in the back when they ran for a first down.

What about their first scoring play?? Is that not a pick move to get Jimmy Graham free?

[row_33]

9 minutes ago, DtownB2 said:

 

For sure. 

First drive where GB scored a TD. Obviously block in the back when they ran for a first down.

What about their first scoring play?? Is that not a pick move to get Jimmy Graham free?

 

 

last year i heard some anecdote on TV.....

 

this rookie WR told his dad they were holding him on every play, so his dad told him he was reserving a job for his son selling used cars right beside him if his son couldn't man up and learn how to overcome getting held out there...

 

 

[Drunken Pygmy Goat]

14 hours ago, Shotgunner said:

I didn't see a penalty there on KB...

 

... But some of the most egregious holds I've ever seen not called, especially on Hughes.

 

He flailed his arm 3 or 4 times on a clear hold, and was literally choked to his knees from behind. 

 

I hate "blaming" refs for losses, but the team was being egregiously demoralized very early in the game, and many of those blatantly obvious non-calls would have had mahor impacts on those drives. 

 

The KB no-call seemed like the right one, but yesterday's game was one of the worst officiated games I can recall, especially aginst the Bills...and there have been many over the years.

 

Now with that being said, even if those penalties would have been called, it may not have mattered. The Bills offense was hot garbage, starting with the game plan and play calls.  

[Heavy Kevi]

1 hour ago, Drunken Pygmy Goat said:

 

He flailed his arm 3 or 4 times on a clear hold, and was literally choked to his knees from behind. 

 

I hate "blaming" refs for losses, but the team was being egregiously demoralized very early in the game, and many of those blatantly obvious non-calls would have had mahor impacts on those drives. 

 

The KB no-call seemed like the right one, but yesterday's game was one of the worst officiated games I can recall, especially aginst the Bills...and there have been many over the years.

 

Now with that being said, even if those penalties would have been called, it may not have mattered. The Bills offense was hot garbage, starting with the game plan and play calls.  

 

I agree wholeheartedly with this whole post.

 

Usually, it's not the refs, but yesterday the hold no calls were un-frickin-believable.

 

And idk, it may have helped. Josh seemed out of sorts, last week he was feeling it. What if GB doesn't score on those first couple drives but instead stall out? Maybe, MAYBE we score, quiet down the stadium, and Josh may feel better. Obviously that's just a maybe, but we will never have a chance to know. Momentum is BIG in the NFL, amd that's why so often a 6 seed makes it to the SB.

[John from Riverside]

17 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:

Clinton- Dix was going for the ball, which he has as much right to as the WR. The contact wasn’t intentional, so you’ll rarely get a call on that type of contact . 

This is such BS....

 

You dont get to make helmet to helmet contact if your going for the ball...it doesnt matter WHAT you are trying to do.

 

We got shafted yesterday on several plays....our defensive line was being held like nobody's business.....Allen's knee was totally down before the ball came out....the helmet to helmet on KB

 

But...when you play THAT badly on offense you dont get the right to complain

[Buffalo716]

2 hours ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

Helmet to helmet contact happens every play somewhere in the field.  It’s the intent part your missing.  Just cause someone’s helmet hits another players doesn’t mean it’s a penalty 

 

I fully understand that. 

 

But he was a defenseless receiver according to the rules and they could’ve called that

 

It is a foul if a player initiates unnecessary contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture.

Players in a defenseless posture are:

2. A receiver attempting to catch a pass who has not had time to clearly become a runner. If the player is capable of avoiding or warding off the impending contact of an opponent, he is no longer a defenseless player

 

Benjamin did not have time to become a runner... yes the CB has a right to the ball, but he can’t go through Benjamin like he did anymore according to the new rule..  

 

I played DB in college , I know all about how DBs should play The game and how hard it is... and that they have a right to the ball... but defenseless receivers are now even PROTECTED AFTER PICKS...  the INT stands but it’s a 15 yard penalty still

 

Note 2: A player who initiates contact against a defenseless opponent is responsible for avoiding an illegal act. This includes illegal contact that may occur during the process of attempting to dislodge the ball from an opponent. A standard of strict liability applies for any contact against a defenseless opponent, even if the opponent is an airborne player who is returning to the ground or whose body position is otherwise in motion, and irrespective of any acts by the defenseless opponent, such as ducking his head or curling up his body in anticipation of contact.

 

the defender is responsible for avoiding illegal acts on a defenseless receiver , he cannot run through a defenseless receiver for a INT anymore, especially at head level on a defenseless receiver 

 

incidental contact is 1 thing, but it’s always a penalty on a defenseless receiver now 

 

 

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Sorry, thanks

[row_33]

on the Rodgers scramble in the first,  did Hughes think he was going to flap his arms fast enough to fly to the moon ?

 

 

[buffalostu2]

18 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:

Looked like the ball was moving before the knee was down. Not enough evidence to overturn. 

The ball should move when you are getting sandwiched and it is allowed to move.  But that doesn't mean he was fumbling it.  I thought it was a bad call.

[Boatdrinks]

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

I fully understand that. 

 

But he was a defenseless receiver according to the rules and they could’ve called that

 

It is a foul if a player initiates unnecessary contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture.

Players in a defenseless posture are:

2. A receiver attempting to catch a pass who has not had time to clearly become a runner. If the player is capable of avoiding or warding off the impending contact of an opponent, he is no longer a defenseless player

 

Benjamin did not have time to become a runner... yes the CB has a right to the ball, but he can’t go through Benjamin like he did anymore according to the new rule..  

 

I played DB in college , I know all about how DBs should play The game and how hard it is... and that they have a right to the ball... but defenseless receivers are now even PROTECTED AFTER PICKS...  the INT stands but it’s a 15 yard penalty still

 

Note 2: A player who initiates contact against a defenseless opponent is responsible for avoiding an illegal act. This includes illegal contact that may occur during the process of attempting to dislodge the ball from an opponent. A standard of strict liability applies for any contact against a defenseless opponent, even if the opponent is an airborne player who is returning to the ground or whose body position is otherwise in motion, and irrespective of any acts by the defenseless opponent, such as ducking his head or curling up his body in anticipation of contact.

 

the defender is responsible for avoiding illegal acts on a defenseless receiver , he cannot run through a defenseless receiver for a INT anymore, especially at head level on a defenseless receiver 

 

incidental contact is 1 thing, but it’s always a penalty on a defenseless receiver now 

 

 

 

Sorry, thanks

The DB wasn’t playing the receiver though, he was making a play on the ball. Two players collided while trying to catch a ball. That’s what it amounts to. The contact was incidental, so now flag was thrown. If Clinton Dix tried to time up a tackle and made that contact, it likely would have been a flag. This is a judgment call, and in my opinion the official was correct to keep the flag in his pocket. As I’ve stated before, if that’s Tredavious White making that INT I’d be livid if the flag was thrown because the contact was incidental. You have to allow players to play, and this was a good no call. Conversely, many instances of holding by Green Bay went uncalled and the Bills had a legitimate gripe there. 

[Watkins90]

19 hours ago, Shotgunner said:

I didn't see a penalty there on KB...

 

... But some of the most egregious holds I've ever seen not called, especially on Hughes.

I think Hughes didn’t get any calls because he started mouthing off at the ref, about not calling them. But, they were bad and the ref should be above pettiness like that.

[Buffalo716]

11 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

The DB wasn’t playing the receiver though, he was making a play on the ball. Two players collided while trying to catch a ball. That’s what it amounts to. The contact was incidental, so now flag was thrown. If Clinton Dix tried to time up a tackle and made that contact, it likely would have been a flag. This is a judgment call, and in my opinion the official was correct to keep the flag in his pocket. As I’ve stated before, if that’s Tredavious White making that INT I’d be livid if the flag was thrown because the contact was incidental. You have to allow players to play, and this was a good no call. Conversely, many instances of holding by Green Bay went uncalled and the Bills had a legitimate gripe there. 

 

Fair enough

[BananaB]

When I watch college football I rarely see any problems, I don’t understand how the guys in the NFL are so !@#$ing bad. Some **** just blows your !@#$ing mind. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

....pretty much a given that officiating inconsistencies have plagued this sport for years and will only get worse as the "old guard" retires and rules are made to be more complex...not much else you can do but factor it into your game plan.........count on "x" number of penalties for "x" number of yards whether right, wrong or indifferent......it's not changing anytime soon.....