Joe B.: Bills Sacrificing Miserable Season For Long-Term Growth

[BigBuff423]

22 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Again so How does Kerley and Holmes fit this plan movement. They contradict their propaganda with this roster decisions. But hey blind faith is good too. 

 

Speaking of UFA so do you want Beane spending that money. Look at HIS offseason this year. That inspires right?

 

Because, they fit the money for what they could spend. Cam Phillips on the PS gets him reps and keeps him with the team but doesn't put the WR squad a Benjamin, Zay and a bunch of Rookies. How is that so hard to understand? They couldn't afford Watkins or want to trade and sign Cooks, because the team is NOT THERE YET. As for Beane's Off-season....I just think you're frustrated and pissed off and refuse to take things in context. Wood and Incognito were unexpected and they refused to bow to that demand because they had a plan: to rid the team of poor Cap management to move forward for the future. And yes, I think Beane and McD were very upfront with Terry and Kim about how this plan needed to go. While no one is happy about losing, sometimes its a bonafide necessity. For years fans wanted the team to tear it all down and rebuild again, and now that it's happening they're complaining. FFS people...they overachieved last year and made the hard decision to suck up the Cap misery and plan for the years to come. 

 

And for your Kerley and Holmes comment, but I feel I've answered twice now, you ignored all of the other points about how McD is playing a bunch of young guys. 

[MAJBobby]

18 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

They are not completely tearing it down and rebuilding.  They said last year they have short term and long term goals.  They do this year as well.  They can't get rid of every veteran, and it doesn't mean every young kid plays before a vet is they think the vet is better.  This year will be a longer year because e they have a rookie QB that is learning, and a rookie MLB that is learning.  Plus they need to improve their lines (and there I would say the young guys like Teller should get their shot sooner vs. later).

 

You are so busy trying to make snarky comments you don't actually read. They have a lot of work to do, as I've outlined in other posts this morning.  And their plan will necessitate good personnel decisions.  As does the plan of every other team in the league.

OK THey said that BEFORE the season, after 47-3 the spin machine is saying this was expected.  SO if this was expected and planned WHY did their offseason moves CONTRADICT it

2 minutes ago, BigBuff423 said:

 

Because, they fit the money for what they could spend. Cam Phillips on the PS gets him reps and keeps him with the team but doesn't put the WR squad a Benjamin, Zay and a bunch of Rookies. How is that so hard to understand? They couldn't afford Watkins or want to trade and sign Cooks, because the team is NOT THERE YET. As for Beane's Off-season....I just think you're frustrated and pissed off and refuse to take things in context. Wood and Incognito were unexpected and they refused to bow to that demand because they had a plan: to rid the team of poor Cap management to move forward for the future. And yes, I think Beane and McD were very upfront with Terry and Kim about how this plan needed to go. While no one is happy about losing, sometimes its a bonafide necessity. For years fans wanted the team to tear it all down and rebuild again, and now that it's happening they're complaining. FFS people...they overachieved last year and made the hard decision to suck up the Cap misery and plan for the years to come. 

 

And for your Kerley and Holmes comment, but I feel I've answered twice now, you ignored all of the other points about how McD is playing a bunch of young guys. 

Again so paying 3.5M to Coleman for NOT playing and maybe taking a little longer to see if that former 1st round pick and top WR in college to get the offense on a two year cost controlled contract was not as smart as Kerley or Holmes and ooo by the way Coleman would not have been a rookie and has performed at the NFL Level.

 

But I know cant question ONE move from the process even if it contradicts the latest spin about that undefined process

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

OK THey said that BEFORE the season, after 47-3 the spin machine is saying this was expected.  SO if this was expected and planned WHY did their offseason moves CONTRADICT it

Writing in caps is just childish.  They want to compete short and long term.  The moves they made are not contradictory.  To compete long term they knew they needed a young franchise-like QB and a leader for their D.  They made moves to get them in this draft.  They knew they wanted to take their cap hit completely and get it over with.  They did that. 

 

You keep harping on Kerley and Holmes as if those are definitive proof of something.  Kerley I suspect will bounce on and off the roster for the year.  Holmes is not as good or bad as any other #4 receiver and is a guy they count on for special teams.

 

Quit acting like a child, read what other people offer, and answer them instead of just writing the same rants (and in capitals no less as if that means anything).

[Hapless Bills Fan]

33 minutes ago, BigBuff423 said:

 

They Drafted their believed franchise QB....that used a lot of Draft capital but nothing that gave up 2019 or beyond. They have 9 or 10 Draft picks upcoming, and have a bunch of FA money for next year. They're playing Allen, Edmunds, and Horrible Harry and Taron Johnson - picks in rounds 1 through 4, and Teller looks like a promising player in the 5th round. Neal is on STs and Robert Foster - the UDFA - is suiting up on game day. Last year's picks, Dawkins, Tre, Zay, Milano are all playing important roles for them - albeit Zay is struggling and this year is healthy, but all of the WRs have been pretty bad thus far. Croom is young as well. 

 

I'm not sure what's so hard to understand in that they can't trot out Rookies at EVERY position, so considering how many Rookies and 2nd year players are actually starting or playing a larger role, I don't know what more you can expect. You can't fix every position in one year, not even in two years - UNLESS YOU SPEND A BUNCH OF FA MONEY - which they were NOT going to do in 2018. They were committed to getting dead money off the books, clearing out the space and building contracts they way they believed sustained long-term success. 

 

I'm not concerned about the lack of rookies.  What concerns me is that where they have brought guys in, they've often brought in older guys on the downhill slide of their career, who even if they play well, are not the future - in preference to younger players whom they've either let walk or traded away.  They're also playing long-in-the-tooth vets in preference to young players at times

 

Examples:

-26 year old EJ Gaines vs 30 yr old Vontae Davis - similar contracts

-letting Robert Woods (26) and Marquise Goodwin (27) walk (along with younger WR prospects last 2 years) vs bringing in Andre Holmes (30) and Jeremy Kerley (29)

 

There's also the persistent excuse that they are hampered by the huge dead cap they themselves created, and could easily have lessened with different decisions.

 

Maybe these guys have a plan, and maybe their plan will work, but if their plan is overall to improve the talent on the roster to win now and in the future (as they say it is), it kind of looks more like they trashed the place.

 

 

 

[dabills21]

2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Writing in caps is just childish.  They want to compete short and long term.  The moves they made are not contradictory.  To compete long term they knew they needed a young franchise-like QB and a leader for their D.  They made moves to get them in this draft.  They knew they wanted to take their cap hit completely and get it over with.  They did that. 

 

You keep harping on Kerley and Holmes as if those are definitive proof of something.  Kerley I suspect will bounce on and off the roster for the year.  Holmes is not as good or bad as any other #4 receiver and is a guy they count on for special teams.

 

Quit acting like a child, read what other people offer, and answer them instead of just writing the same rants (and in capitals no less as if that means anything).

Trust me, this guy is not worth your time.  He's blind with rage, and for some reason thinks the Kerley release is a signal that Beane has no clue.

 

FWIW, I agree with you completely.   Logic and patience is lost on the angry and out of touch

[MAJBobby]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

Writing in caps is just childish.  They want to compete short and long term.  The moves they made are not contradictory.  To compete long term they knew they needed a young franchise-like QB and a leader for their D.  They made moves to get them in this draft.  They knew they wanted to take their cap hit completely and get it over with.  They did that. 

 

You keep harping on Kerley and Holmes as if those are definitive proof of something.  Kerley I suspect will bounce on and off the roster for the year.  Holmes is not as good or bad as any other #4 receiver and is a guy they count on for special teams.

 

Quit acting like a child, read what other people offer, and answer them instead of just writing the same rants (and in capitals no less as if that means anything).

 Writing certain words in caps emphasis those words, and are not childish.  They absolutely are.  The McCarron signing was, The Davis Signing was, the Kerley or Holmes making the Roster was.  And yes I keep harping on Kerley because it was the latest point to the contradictory offseason to the latest spin of the nebulous defined Process.  See the organization doesnt define it, only say trust it.  But then Media and Fans define it to fit what they want.  I never once defined it at all.  I look at what they say "planned development year, youth movement was planned" then evaluate that statement AGAINST their roster moves which say otherwise to come up with this planned development year is an after the fact excuse to the team not being remotely competitive for now 2 weeks.

[row_33]

Pain does not guarantee success in the future.

 

 

[BadLandsMeanie]

Who tanks the year AFTER they select a QB?

 

 

And, did the openness with the Pegulas include that the players aren't coached well enough to understand what they are doing?

 

Low talent is one thing. But they look a bit lost.

 

 

[Billsatlastin2018]

"I hope it works, ...but this is basically the line we were sold with the Sabres a few years ago, but the GM proved much more adept at tearing down what was there and acquiring future assetts, than he was at re-building...so we were treated to an extended period of some of the most miserable seasons in Sabres franchise history...lets just hope McDermot and Beane know how to re-build an NFL team, better than Tim Murray did and NHL team."

 

And therein, lies the rub! For the vast majority of NFL teams, this 'destroy and rebuild process' makes sense- a lot of it. But, you have to have 1000% confidence in the abilities of OBD's Management team to make the vast, vast, majority of correct- no great decisions immediately, as they occur,- whether it's via the Draft or FA!

 

NO WHIFFS!

 

I simply don't- given the pathetic track record of this entire Millennium. The bottom line is that THIS Bills team perhaps has 50% of its players on the field, that belong in the Sunday Night Beer League!

 

50%! 

 

It's never here a question of JUST grabbing the Top 10 QB and all systems go. Noooooo...the Bills have FUBARed making the proper moves and they have needed 1-2 OL, a DE, a LB, a WR, a S/CB PLUS the Top 10 QB. And in 2018, they need another half dozen.

 

It's just a Groundhog Day Titanic- one move forward and 5 back! 

[Rocbillsfan1]

9 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Yea because Joe B has inside info.

 

Terrible piece. What was "long overdue"? Trading away and not retaining young talented players for draft picks and replacing them with trash? 

 

We have no young players Joe.... due to the new regime. 

 

It doesn't take 5 years to rebuild a football team. Why is this so hard to understand?

 

 

This is year 1 of the rebuild. Last year was still mostly an evaluation period and all about acquiring draft capital and removing dead weight in cap space. 

[BadLandsMeanie]

10 hours ago, BuffaloRush said:

Great comments from Joe B.  He does a great job putting things into perspective and has been echoing what many of us have been saying for a while.  Read the comments in bold

 

https://www.wkbw.com/sports/bills/joe-b-7-observations-from-buffalo-bills-los-angeles-chargers-9_16_18

 

 

 

This would be more convincing if it was written 20 years ago

 

I mean we are getting into loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong term here by now!

[MAJBobby]

5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm not concerned about the lack of rookies.  What concerns me is that where they have brought guys in, they've often brought in older guys on the downhill slide of their career, who even if they play well, are not the future - in preference to younger players whom they've either let walk or traded away.  They're also playing long-in-the-tooth vets in preference to young players at times

 

Examples:

-26 year old EJ Gaines vs 30 yr old Vontae Davis - similar contracts

-letting Robert Woods (26) and Marquise Goodwin (27) walk (along with younger WR prospects last 2 years) vs bringing in Andre Holmes (30) and Jeremy Kerley (29)

 

There's also the persistent excuse that they are hampered by the huge dead cap they themselves created, and could easily have lessened with different decisions.

 

Maybe these guys have a plan, and maybe their plan will work, but if their plan is overall to improve the talent on the roster to win now and in the future (as they say it is), it kind of looks more like they trashed the place.

 

 

 

Exactly, you didnt see Dorsey throw the baby out with the bathwater taking over a 1-31 team as GM did you

5 minutes ago, dabills21 said:

Trust me, this guy is not worth your time.  He's blind with rage, and for some reason thinks the Kerley release is a signal that Beane has no clue.

 

FWIW, I agree with you completely.   Logic and patience is lost on the angry and out of touch

Not one person has been able to explain or defend the obvious contradictions.  I find it funny that people that differ in their opinion are blind with rage, out of touch.  Let me ask how has BLIND faith in previous regimes worked?

[BarleyNY]

The surprising thing about this being a tear down rebuilding year is that the Bills are the 5th oldest team in the NFL. I’d expect them to be a lot younger. 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.phillyvoice.com/ranking-nfl-teams-age-after-53-man-cutdowns-2018-edition/amp/

[BigBuff423]

26 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

OK THey said that BEFORE the season, after 47-3 the spin machine is saying this was expected.  SO if this was expected and planned WHY did their offseason moves CONTRADICT it

Again so paying 3.5M to Coleman for NOT playing and maybe taking a little longer to see if that former 1st round pick and top WR in college to get the offense on a two year cost controlled contract was not as smart as Kerley or Holmes and ooo by the way Coleman would not have been a rookie and has performed at the NFL Level.

 

But I know cant question ONE move from the process even if it contradicts the latest spin about that undefined process

 

Paying 3.5 to Coleman was about hoping to unearth potential top level talent at a very reasonable cost both in money and Draft pick which is basically the value of an UDFA, given how far away it is and that it is a 7th round pick. At this point it seems more like you've just made up your mind that you don't like the team in its current condition and just don't like it without acknowledging it's part of their overhaul. Ok, cool....every fan is entitled to their opinion obviously, but this takes just seem so pervasively negative without true justification.

[MAJBobby]

1 minute ago, BigBuff423 said:

 

Paying 3.5 to Coleman was about hoping to unearth potential top level talent at a very reasonable cost both in money and Draft pick which is basically the value of an UDFA, given how far away it is and that it is a 7th round pick. At this point it seems more like you've just made up your mind that you don't like the team in its current condition and just don't like it without acknowledging it's part of their overhaul. Ok, cool....every fan is entitled to their opinion obviously, but this takes just seem so pervasively negative without true justification.

 

Then WHY did they keep him for 2 weeks and go with Kerley if they were hoping to unearth that top WR.  See that is WHY the Kerley thing is in DIRECT contradiction to the latest spin out of the OBD propaganda machine.  And as I have said I could accept this tear down and this youth and development this year IF the offseason moves and future moves do not directly Contradict it.  

 

Example If they do not go sign a player like Gentry of the Bears PS and keep trotting Holmes out there.  Or Re-sign Kerley

Edited September 17, 2018 by MAJBobby

[BigBuff423]

19 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm not concerned about the lack of rookies.  What concerns me is that where they have brought guys in, they've often brought in older guys on the downhill slide of their career, who even if they play well, are not the future - in preference to younger players whom they've either let walk or traded away.  They're also playing long-in-the-tooth vets in preference to young players at times

 

Examples:

-26 year old EJ Gaines vs 30 yr old Vontae Davis - similar contracts

-letting Robert Woods (26) and Marquise Goodwin (27) walk (along with younger WR prospects last 2 years) vs bringing in Andre Holmes (30) and Jeremy Kerley (29)

 

There's also the persistent excuse that they are hampered by the huge dead cap they themselves created, and could easily have lessened with different decisions.

 

Maybe these guys have a plan, and maybe their plan will work, but if their plan is overall to improve the talent on the roster to win now and in the future (as they say it is), it kind of looks more like they trashed the place.

 

 

 

 

I disagree with Woods and Goodwin because at a time when they are and will be good, the team will just be rounding into shape. As for older Vets, again, IMHO, it's their way of putting something on the field other than a team of 1st and 2nd year players in hopes they would be competitive while building for the future. And this FO didn't create the Cap issues, Doug Whaley did, they're just cleaning up his mess. I think we can all see that ridding the team of certain players that they didn't believe held team first mentality was the priority and then letting guys go that they didn't think fit what they wanted to accomplish. To me all in all it was this simple: they didn't have the players they wanted and the good players they had, cost too damn much. 

[Chuck Wagon]

I don't buy being the worst team in football is part of the plan at all.  None of their moves speak to planning on going 0-16.  It seems pretty clear they thought this team's core is a legitimate playoff team, attempted to shore up some weak points by bringing in Star to help vs the run, Edmunds to take over and upgrade the LB corps, Davis to replace Gaines.  Bodine and Newhouse on the line.

 

They thought the defense was legitimate last year and just needed some patching in different areas, meanwhile the offense had enough to make Peterman/a rookie QB passable enough to win conservative games.  They badly miss-evaluated the talent they had in the building and their FA signings.  You don't make an aggressive trade up for a linebacker if you think the team is rebuilding and in need of an infusion of young talent, that's a "we think we are close and he'll be a key piece" move.

[corta765]

10 hours ago, Your brain broke said:

Where has anyone (ownership,Bean McDermott) come out and said they expected this or are that it's all part of their "process"?

 

When has ANY NFL team actively come out and said their going to see off a season? They can't and won't because its wrong competitively and business wise basically tells the customer don't expect much.

[NewEra]

10 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Yea because Joe B has inside info.

 

Terrible piece. What was "long overdue"? Trading away and not retaining young talented players for draft picks and replacing them with trash? 

 

We have no young players Joe.... due to the new regime. 

 

It doesn't take 5 years to rebuild a football team. Why is this so hard to understand?

 

 

Overreact much?  Nooo not you?  We have several young players.  Allen, Edmunds, White, Milano, Dawkins, Phillips, Johnson, Jones.  They aren’t all all pros, but all are young and are considered to be talented prospects.

 

who is saying it takes 5 years to rebuild?  This is year 2 and the results and talent level are a result of purging bad contracts and malcontents.  Almost doubling the 2nd highest team in dead cap space.  That was expected.  The following 2 offseasons will determine if the rebuild is a success or a failure.  I’d rather be in this position for a year than pay Sammy 16 mill and dareus 18 mill.  Those guys weren’t producing while they were here and I’m glad they’re gone.  Losing wood to injury and incognito to insanity wasn’t part of their process.  It happened and  they didn’t have the money to replace them adequately.  So this is what we get.  We get to wait til next year while grooming the young guys that we have.  And yes, we do have some quality young players, regardless if you think so or not.

[MAJBobby]

2 minutes ago, BigBuff423 said:

 

I disagree with Woods and Goodwin because at a time when they are and will be good, the team will just be rounding into shape. As for older Vets, again, IMHO, it's their way of putting something on the field other than a team of 1st and 2nd year players in hopes they would be competitive while building for the future. And this FO didn't create the Cap issues, Doug Whaley did, they're just cleaning up his mess. I think we can all see that ridding the team of certain players that they didn't believe held team first mentality was the priority and then letting guys go that they didn't think fit what they wanted to accomplish. To me all in all it was this simple: they didn't have the players they wanted and the good players they had, cost too damn much. 

They Created the DEAD Cap Issues.  

 

1.  Dareus - why could he have not been on this team right now, instead of paying 22M against the cap for Star (who will also be gone by the time the team is good) 

2.  Tyrod / McCarron - completely SELF INFLICTED 10M this year and 2M next in dead cap

3.  Glenn - Still could be here and at RT 

4.  Wood - Completely Self inflicted (but giving that a pass on the health)

5.  Coleman - Completely self inflicted.

 

There are your TOP 5 Dead Cap numbers this year.

 

[row_33]

10 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said:

I don't buy being the worst team in football is part of the plan at all.  None of their moves speak to planning on going 0-16.  It seems pretty clear they thought this team's core is a legitimate playoff team, attempted to shore up some weak points by bringing in Star to help vs the run, Edmunds to take over and upgrade the LB corps, Davis to replace Gaines.  Bodine and Newhouse on the line.

 

They thought the defense was legitimate last year and just needed some patching in different areas, meanwhile the offense had enough to make Peterman/a rookie QB passable enough to win conservative games.  They badly miss-evaluated the talent they had in the building and their FA signings.  You don't make an aggressive trade up for a linebacker if you think the team is rebuilding and in need of an infusion of young talent, that's a "we think we are close and he'll be a key piece" move.

 

 

agreed, the Bills are not aiming to be the worst, the team means too much to the fanbase and organizational pride, even if that seems laughable to others...

 

 

[NewEra]

7 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

They Created the DEAD Cap Issues.  

 

1.  Dareus - why could he have not been on this team right now, instead of paying 22M against the cap for Star (who will also be gone by the time the team is good) 

2.  Tyrod / McCarron - completely SELF INFLICTED 10M this year and 2M next in dead cap

3.  Glenn - Still could be here and at RT 

4.  Wood - Completely Self inflicted (but giving that a pass on the health)

5.  Coleman - Completely self inflicted.

 

There are your TOP 5 Dead Cap numbers this year.

 

1- did you watch him play last year for us?  Ok.  That’s answers that question.  

 

2- we got the 1st pick in the 3rd rd and the 2nd pick in the 5th rd this year for 2 QBs that have as many wins this year as sweet nate Pete. 

 

3-  he had a broken foot for 2 years.  He weighs over 350.  Broken feet + 350 LBs = no thanks at 11 mill a year.  

 

4-  why is wood even brought up?  He retired due to a neck injury.  Makes no sense.

 

5- rolled the dice on a 1st rd pick 2 years removed.  He’s fast.  We had no speed.  We traded a 7th rd pick and have 3 mill in dead cap space because of it.  If that’s the best you’ve got, you’ve got nothing 

Edited September 17, 2018 by NewEra

[BigBuff423]

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

They Created the DEAD Cap Issues.  

 

1.  Dareus - why could he have not been on this team right now, instead of paying 22M against the cap for Star (who will also be gone by the time the team is good) 

2.  Tyrod / McCarron - completely SELF INFLICTED 10M this year and 2M next in dead cap

3.  Glenn - Still could be here and at RT 

4.  Wood - Completely Self inflicted (but giving that a pass on the health)

5.  Coleman - Completely self inflicted.

 

There are your TOP 5 Dead Cap numbers this year.

 

 

1. Dareus was lazy and failed to show any real motivation while in Buffalo. Good for him in Jax, but he was NOT that competitive in his last few years in Buffalo. Getting that contract gone will help....ready......NEXT YEAR!

2. Tyrod was NOT coming back. Very few wanted him here, but glad you're one of them that did. AJ was a really decent FA signing at the time, but Beane admitted AJ was not the QB they believed he would be when he got to Buffalo. So, unlike some on this board - he admitted his mistake and traded him for a 5th round pick. Rather than eating a roster spot and getting nothing from him. He traded him at his highest point, just after the comeback game that meant nothing but counted for something.

3. Glenn was part of the strategy to get to Allen - and again, how quickly people forget that Glenn had constant nagging foot injuries and to be paying a guy without value, makes no sense. So, they used him to get their QB of the future. If you don't see how that works for the team, then there's nothing I can do for you.

4. Wood - how is that self-inflicted? He had no idea about the injury until the end of the season check-up....and then you say giving that a pass, it shouldn't have even been brought up to begin with.

5. Coleman - with this regarding the money, we agree. Now with this, I give them a pass because if it had worked out, it would have been a coup for Beane to pay so little to get so much. But they knew the risks and calculated it was worth it. 

[MAJBobby]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

1- did you watch him play last year for us?  Ok.  That’s answers that question.  Does it, how is Star and his ZERO tackles. And BAD Contract?

 

2- we got the 1st pick in the 3rd rd and the 2nd pick in the 5th rd this year for 2 QBs that have as many wins this year as sweet nate Pete. (So Self Inflicted like I said)

 

3-  he had a broken foot for 2 years.  He weighs over 350.  Broken feet + 35” LBs = no thanks at 11 mill a year.  (Better than Mills right, wouldnt that help Allen not getting pressure every play, seems to help Dalton)

 

4-  why is wood even brought up?  He retired due to a neck injury.  Makes no sense. (Self inflicted with the extension in that offseason, and apparent you cant read giving a pass)

 

5- rolled the dice on a 1st rd pick 2 years removed.  He’s fast.  We had no speed.  We traded a 7th rd pick and have 3 mill in dead cap space because of it.  If that’s the best you’ve got, you’ve got nothing  (Self Inflicted, see seems they SHOULDNT be getting a pass on this dead cap issue, and have it as some blame to Whaley to deflect)

 

Bolded Comments

3 minutes ago, BigBuff423 said:

 

1. Dareus was lazy and failed to show any real motivation while in Buffalo. Good for him in Jax, but he was NOT that competitive in his last few years in Buffalo. Getting that contract gone will help....ready......NEXT YEAR! And yet Gave it RIGHT to Star, ooo and by they way could have moved on this year for less hit.

2. Tyrod was NOT coming back. Very few wanted him here, but glad you're one of them that did. AJ was a really decent FA signing at the time, but Beane admitted AJ was not the QB they believed he would be when he got to Buffalo. So, unlike some on this board - he admitted his mistake and traded him for a 5th round pick. Rather than eating a roster spot and getting nothing from him. He traded him at his highest point, just after the comeback game that meant nothing but counted for something. Self Inflicted So how is this Whaley to blame?

3. Glenn was part of the strategy to get to Allen - and again, how quickly people forget that Glenn had constant nagging foot injuries and to be paying a guy without value, makes no sense. So, they used him to get their QB of the future. If you don't see how that works for the team, then there's nothing I can do for you. Didnt need to, picks could have been used and have a OT to protect Allen, there are other ways of doing things.

4. Wood - how is that self-inflicted? He had no idea about the injury until the end of the season check-up....and then you say giving that a pass, it shouldn't have even been brought up to begin with. Signed him to an extension, so yep self inflicted, though again like above give them a pass on this.

5. Coleman - with this regarding the money, we agree. Now with this, I give them a pass because if it had worked out, it would have been a coup for Beane to pay so little to get so much. But they knew the risks and calculated it was worth it. Self inflicted as I said.  And no pass why? Because we are paying him to be on the Patriots while we trot out the likes of Kerley and Holmes on the opening day Roster.  He should be on the roster and this self inflicted dead cap would not be here.

 

So again stop giving a pass on the dead cap and blaming Whaley

[oldmanfan]

38 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm not concerned about the lack of rookies.  What concerns me is that where they have brought guys in, they've often brought in older guys on the downhill slide of their career, who even if they play well, are not the future - in preference to younger players whom they've either let walk or traded away.  They're also playing long-in-the-tooth vets in preference to young players at times

 

Examples:

-26 year old EJ Gaines vs 30 yr old Vontae Davis - similar contracts

-letting Robert Woods (26) and Marquise Goodwin (27) walk (along with younger WR prospects last 2 years) vs bringing in Andre Holmes (30) and Jeremy Kerley (29)

 

There's also the persistent excuse that they are hampered by the huge dead cap they themselves created, and could easily have lessened with different decisions.

 

Maybe these guys have a plan, and maybe their plan will work, but if their plan is overall to improve the talent on the roster to win now and in the future (as they say it is), it kind of looks more like they trashed the place.

 

 

 

I think you can fairly criticize the current regime for some of these.  Gaines now looks like a bad move considering the cowardly thing Davis just did.  And I said yesterday I was puzzled by the Kerley thing.  Others you can't be as critical of.  I don't think Woods was going to sign in free agency; the fact that they never made a serious move to sign him was a signal to me that they knew Woods  wanted to move along.  And Goodwin?  Sorry, but that's revisionist history.  He could not stay on the field here.  And then guys like Gilmore were really Whaley's issue before the current regime could do much. 

 

Looking at all the moves I would like to have Gaines still here.  Maybe Darby.  I might have looked at other assets to trade Cincy other than Glenn, but then again they needed O line help and Glenn was hurt essentially all last season, with a big cap hit to boot.  I don't think I would have given a third for Benjaming given his nonchalance lately; I always liked Sammy and would have liked to see him stay but he had his own issues as well.  And Dareus I can't blame them for at all; so many coaches, Kyle, etc. could not get through to the kid.  I would have looked for an edge rusher elsewhere and not given Murphy a contract even though it's a very temporary hit.

 

So some of the moves they've made to stay competitive this year haven't panned out as well as they'd like, and that's on them.  Going forward, they have to make sure they draft well (they did this year) and pick the right FAs. 

 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Even last week McDermott started to slip in the "this is what we inherited" garbage. 

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

4 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Glenn> any tackle we have on this team 

 

Wrong. Always wrong. And you're #1 in the Great Ignore Purge of 2018! Congratulations!

 

[corta765]

1 hour ago, May Day 10 said:

I take Joe B's word on almost anything.  IMO, he is the hardest worker in the Buffalo media pool and does not pull punches, nor unnecessarily bag on players/management.  He is fair.

 

 

Reading that backed me from the ledge a bit.

 

 

Its pretty clear that current Bills management is iron clad until the 2020 season starts at a minimum.  Might as well see this through.  2018 is likely shot, but Allen didnt look to far out of class, and has 14 games to improve, and we see extensive reinforcements in 2019 and 2020.

 

 

He is without a doubt the finest Bills reporter the area has. He calls a spade a spade but like you said he doesn't go off into negativity the way some reporters will where it feels like the criticism is to a point of unnecessary.

 

I kinda expected this season to be a 3-5 win season. Literally the only reason I had any hope was because last year I thought the same and they proved me wrong. This is probably the lowest my expectations have been since the 2010 year where winning games felt like an accomplishment forget the playoffs. I'm OK with this and just hope in the offseason they can really bolster the offense as a whole.

[teef]

2 minutes ago, corta765 said:

 

He is without a doubt the finest Bills reporter the area has. He calls a spade a spade but like you said he doesn't go off into negativity the way some reporters will where it feels like the criticism is to a point of unnecessary.

 

I kinda expected this season to be a 3-5 win season. Literally the only reason I had any hope was because last year I thought the same and they proved me wrong. This is probably the lowest my expectations have been since the 2010 year where winning games felt like an accomplishment forget the playoffs. I'm OK with this and just hope in the offseason they can really bolster the offense as a whole.

same here.  what happens this season really doesn't phase me at all.  just let the young guys develop.

[Peter]

7 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Purging bad contracts and malcontents with more of the same? 

 

Watkins>Benjamin

Dareus>Star

Glenn> any tackle we have on this team 

Darby> the recently retired Davis.

 

But yea I know, those guys didn't fit with the McBeane culture and process and DNA or whatever you want to call it. 

 

They didn't have the money to replace Wood and Incognito? What a made up narrative.

 

They doled out money to Star, Murphy, and Davis instead and settled scrap FAs on the Oline. 

 

Its real easy to tear things down, but as we are already witnessing with this regime, it's a lot harder to build it back up. A bunch of their personnel decisions leave a lot to be desired up to this point.

 

 

 

Well said.

 

The other issue that is going to highlight the stupidity of their approach is that the Bills likely will have no choice but to over pay if they want to sign really talented free agents this coming off season given that we are likely to be one of the worst teams in the NFL.

 

In the end, McBeane:

 

1) got rid of what they thought were "bad contracts" (of some good players);

 

2) got rid of some other good young talent on rookie contracts;

 

3) have given out bad contracts to others this year; and

 

4) most likely will have to over pay this coming off season to attract significant talent.

 

In the meantime, we are likely going to have an historically bad season.

 

Process that.

[Julio Hopkins]

18 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

Wrong. Always wrong. And you're #1 in the Great Ignore Purge of 2018! Congratulations!

 

 

Glenn is a top 10 LT, and he is absolutely better than everybody on this O-line.

[Peter]

20 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

Wrong. Always wrong. And you're #1 in the Great Ignore Purge of 2018! Congratulations!

 

 

Cordy Glenn and the Bengals gave up 0 sacks to the Ravens.

 

The Buffalo Bills without Cordy Glenn gave up 6 sacks to the Ravens.

 

Bonus: I never saw Cordy Glenn manhandled like I saw Dion manhandled by Myles Garrett.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, Peter said:

 

Cordy Glenn and the Bengals gave up 0 sacks to the Ravens.

 

The Buffalo Bills without Cordy Glenn gave up 6 sacks to the Ravens.

 

Bonus: I never saw Cordy Glenn manhandled like I saw Dion manhandled by Myles Garrett.

 

Come on man, you're better than this.

 

The Bengals are another team loaded with other weapons. The Ravens just couldn't ignore the routes and get after dalton like they did nate.

 

 

[Peter]

1 minute ago, joesixpack said:

 

Come on man, you're better than this.

 

The Bengals are another team loaded with other weapons. The Ravens just couldn't ignore the routes and get after dalton like they did nate.

 

 

 

I am sorry that we disagree, but I will take Cordy Glenn over any of our offensive linemen. 

 

He also is a guy who came back to play in the NFL after having his kidney removed.  If the whole McBeane "culture"/"DNA" thing were more than just lip service to justify their moves, one would think that Cordy Glenn would have been part of McBeane's "DNA."

[MAJBobby]

33 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Even last week McDermott started to slip in the "this is what we inherited" garbage. 

 

 

He made this garbage with Beane. Dont let the misinformation fool you

8 minutes ago, Peter said:

 

I am sorry that we disagree, but I will take Cordy Glenn over any of our offensive linemen. 

 

He also is a guy who came back to play in the NFL after having his kidney removed.  If the whole McBeane "culture"/"DNA" thing were more than just lip service to justify their moves, one would think that Cordy Glenn would have been part of McBeane's "DNA."

 

Dont worry the DNa involved quitters and Former Carolina players. Or anything NOT Whaley

[NewEra]

55 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Bolded Comments

 

So again stop giving a pass on the dead cap and blaming Whaley

 

there Is long term growth and the is winning in 2018.  McBeane had to choose one or the other.  They chose long term and winning with players they want as opposed to players did nothing but lose, get injured every year, fail drug tests, cry about not being that star etc.....

 

It’s a rebuild.  Rebuilds sometimes require dead cap space, just like ours,  If we kept all of those players, would we win a super bowl?  No.  Not even close.  That’s the goal.  I think we’re closer to winning a SB by cutting the dead weight and getting players that they want as opposed to what they inherited.  What they do the next 2 offseason will determine their fate.  I have no idea if they will succeed, but I think they did the right thing by getting rid of those contracts.  

11 minutes ago, Peter said:

 

I am sorry that we disagree, but I will take Cordy Glenn over any of our offensive linemen. 

 

He also is a guy who came back to play in the NFL after having his kidney removed.  If the whole McBeane "culture"/"DNA" thing were more than just lip service to justify their moves, one would think that Cordy Glenn would have been part of McBeane's "DNA."

I’d take a healthy cordy over our guys too.  He wasn’t healthy the last 2years and foot problems on mountain men are scary.  He’s played 2 games.  Let’s see if he plays the entire year

[MAJBobby]

3 minutes ago, NewEra said:

 

there Is long term growth and the is winning in 2018.  McBeane had to choose one or the other.  They chose long term and winning with players they want as opposed to players did nothing but lose, get injured every year, fail drug tests, cry about not being that star etc.....

 

It’s a rebuild.  Rebuilds sometimes require dead cap space, just like ours,  If we kept all of those players, would we win a super bowl?  No.  Not even close.  That’s the goal.  I think we’re closer to winning a SB by cutting the dead weight and getting players that they want as opposed to what they inherited.  What they do the next 2 offseason will determine their fate.  I have no idea if they will succeed, but I think they did the right thing by getting rid of those contracts.  

 

So when did they choose this?

 

after 47-3? Because it always has been win now win in future. Then COMPLETELY Gutted And self inflicted an excuse of dead money. And the blind followers slop it up. 

 

Cleveland Rebuild with Dorsey did they GUT Sashi Browns talent because it was Sashi Browns talent?

Edited September 17, 2018 by MAJBobby

[blacklabel]

I agree with Joe B.

 

This board and the old Bills message board, there was constant clamoring for them to clean house and start over. So they finally do and half the fan-base is ready to turn on them again. Nine and a half months ago thousands of fans stood out in freezing weather to welcome the team home after they made the playoffs. Now nothing is good enough?

 

They've acquired draft capital. They've traded around. They've taken chances on different players. They've had to deal with poor contracts from other regimes. They can't fix everything in one full off-season. (And I say one full off-season because 2018 was Beane and his crews first full off-season running the show). They got rid of business office people. They got rid of people who couldn't stop flapping their lips to the media. They have an articulate and educated HC and GM able to explain themselves fairly eloquently... a welcome change after loud-mouth Rex and "I'm not really good so much at the talking and explaining of the things or who my boss is" Doug Whaley. 

 

Adios to the snoozin' on FA day GMs like Nix. Adios to the guys that never had any business being GMs in Marv Levy (god love him, superb coach, never should've been a GM) and Russ Brandon. Adios to Doug "He's a good scout but bad team-builder" Whaley. And now people are turning on Beane in the opposite manner? "He has a decent vision for team-building but he a bad scout!" 

 

For the love of crap, what do you want?! Perfection right from the jump? Doesn't happen. More spinning their tires in the mud? More 7-9, 8-8 records? More seasons just good enough to keep them out of reach of an elite draft pick?

 

Complaining about all the free agents they got because they don't look like Hall of Famers after two games? Saying they've neglected the OL and WR positions when they've drafted a second round left tackle, a developmental guard, signed some stop-gap guys, retained a center who showed potential to take over as the starter, signed another center just in case, made a huge push for a solid right tackle like Ricky Wagner. Traded for a WR, drafted a second-round WR, made a push to sign Jeremy Maclin, signed Anquan Boldin who decided to go be an activist. I mean, to say they haven't addressed these things is just flat out wrong. Has it gone well? Not yet. But no team hits it out of the park on every free agent. Oh, and, as I've mentioned in other threads, free agents also have to want to sign here. What're they supposed to do, tie guys up and throw loonies at them until they sign?

 

And now they gotta be fortune tellers to? They were supposed to know that Mahomes would start out on fire? Let's just forget he has one of the greatest QB coaches of all time in his ear and a group of stacked skill players around him. Think he has that kind of success if he comes here? C'mon now.

 

This season is about the young, core players on this team (Josh Allen, Tremaine Edmunds, Tre'Davious White, Dion Dawkins, Zay Jones, etc.) growing and becoming cornerstones for the foundation upon which they'll build this team.

 

And they'll get to the OL. Beane was on the staff in Carolina that drafted Ryan Kalil (5x Pro Bowl, 2x All-Pro and, what's this, he's a free agent in 2019), Trai Turner (3x Pro Bowl) and Daryl Williams, a serviceable guard (that, unfortunately wound up on IR last week). Pretty decent interior OL. 

 

Everyone wants the success but nobody wants to exercise patience and let these guys do their thing. 

[NewEra]

44 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Purging bad contracts and malcontents with more of the same? 

 

Watkins>Benjamin

Dareus>Star

Glenn> any tackle we have on this team 

Darby> the recently retired Davis.

 

But yea I know, those guys didn't fit with the McBeane culture and process and DNA or whatever you want to call it. 

 

They didn't have the money to replace Wood and Incognito? What a made up narrative.

 

They doled out money to Star, Murphy, and Davis instead and settled scrap FAs on the Oline. 

 

Its real easy to tear things down, but as we are already witnessing with this regime, it's a lot harder to build it back up. A bunch of their personnel decisions leave a lot to be desired up to this point.

 

 

Sammy and KB, I’ll give you,  KB is a bum.  I can’t stand him.

 

dareus is a failed drug test away from a year long suspension, was always hurt and not a positive locker room guy.  Star is never hurt, he does as the Defense asks him and gets paid a little more than half of what Dareus gets.  

 

We we had several holes to fill and not much cap room.  How is it a made up narrative?  Sure, we could’ve paid other bums 3 mill a year like we paid Bodine.....but they’re still bums...like Newhouse.  Who else could we have signed while also signing Murphy and Star?  Which top OL would’ve signed here?  Jacksonville made Norwell the highest paid guard, they have a stacked young team and play in Florida, not Buffalo,  I’m sure we could’ve gotten him.......if we offered him 20 mill a year.  Saying “we should’ve signed so and so is just ridiculous.  So and so has to sign the contract to play here.  Easier said than done.  

 

They tried to stay somewhat competitive and filled a couple holes.  Murphy looked decent yesterday and Star is clogging up blockers.  I don’t think he’s worth 10 mill a year, but if we had Luke Kuechly out there instead of Edmunds, we might be seeing this in a different light.  Edmunds was HORRIFIC yesterday.

 

 It’s a lot easier to build things up when you have cap room, which we will have next season.  We weren’t going to compete for a super bowl this year gents.  I don’t mind taking it on the chin for a year if it means success going forward.  We wouldn’t be the first team in league history to do so.

[MAJBobby]

4 minutes ago, blacklabel said:

I agree with Joe B.

 

This board and the old Bills message board, there was constant clamoring for them to clean house and start over. So they finally do and half the fan-base is ready to turn on them again. Nine and a half months ago thousands of fans stood out in freezing weather to welcome the team home after they made the playoffs. Now nothing is good enough?

 

They've acquired draft capital. They've traded around. They've taken chances on different players. They've had to deal with poor contracts from other regimes. They can't fix everything in one full off-season. (And I say one full off-season because 2018 was Beane and his crews first full off-season running the show). They got rid of business office people. They got rid of people who couldn't stop flapping their lips to the media. They have an articulate and educated HC and GM able to explain themselves fairly eloquently... a welcome change after loud-mouth Rex and "I'm not really good so much at the talking and explaining of the things or who my boss is" Doug Whaley. 

 

Adios to the snoozin' on FA day GMs like Nix. Adios to the guys that never had any business being GMs in Marv Levy (god love him, superb coach, never should've been a GM) and Russ Brandon. Adios to Doug "He's a good scout but bad team-builder" Whaley. And now people are turning on Beane in the opposite manner? "He has a decent vision for team-building but he a bad scout!" 

 

For the love of crap, what do you want?! Perfection right from the jump? Doesn't happen. More spinning their tires in the mud? More 7-9, 8-8 records? More seasons just good enough to keep them out of reach of an elite draft pick?

 

Complaining about all the free agents they got because they don't look like Hall of Famers after two games? Saying they've neglected the OL and WR positions when they've drafted a second round left tackle, a developmental guard, signed some stop-gap guys, retained a center who showed potential to take over as the starter, signed another center just in case, made a huge push for a solid right tackle like Ricky Wagner. Traded for a WR, drafted a second-round WR, made a push to sign Jeremy Maclin, signed Anquan Boldin who decided to go be an activist. I mean, to say they haven't addressed these things is just flat out wrong. Has it gone well? Not yet. But no team hits it out of the park on every free agent. Oh, and, as I've mentioned in other threads, free agents also have to want to sign here. What're they supposed to do, tie guys up and throw loonies at them until they sign?

 

And now they gotta be fortune tellers to? They were supposed to know that Mahomes would start out on fire? Let's just forget he has one of the greatest QB coaches of all time in his ear and a group of stacked skill players around him. Think he has that kind of success if he comes here? C'mon now.

 

This season is about the young, core players on this team (Josh Allen, Tremaine Edmunds, Tre'Davious White, Dion Dawkins, Zay Jones, etc.) growing and becoming cornerstones for the foundation upon which they'll build this team.

 

And they'll get to the OL. Beane was on the staff in Carolina that drafted Ryan Kalil (5x Pro Bowl, 2x All-Pro and, what's this, he's a free agent in 2019), Trai Turner (3x Pro Bowl) and Daryl Williams, a serviceable guard (that, unfortunately wound up on IR last week). Pretty decent interior OL. 

 

Everyone wants the success but nobody wants to exercise patience and let these guys do their thing. 

How about we keep it simple.

 

Could we expect their roster moves to match what they say the expected? AND Not Contradict it?

 

Could we see game days rosters also reflect the same?

 

Like I said start simple

2 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Sammy and KB, I’ll give you,  KB is a bum.  I can’t stand him.

 

dareus is a failed drug test away from a year long suspension, was always hurt and not a positive locker room guy.  Star is never hurt, he does as the Defense asks him and gets paid a little more than half of what Dareus gets.  

 

We we had several holes to fill and not much cap room.  How is it a made up narrative?  Sure, we could’ve paid other bums 3 mill a year like we paid Bodine.....but they’re still bums...like Newhouse.  Who else could we have signed while also signing Murphy and Star?  Which top OL would’ve signed here?  Jacksonville made Norwell the highest paid guard, they have a stacked young team and play in Florida, not Buffalo,  I’m sure we could’ve gotten him.......if we offered him 20 mill a year.  Saying “we should’ve signed so and so is just ridiculous.  So and so has to sign the contract to play here.  Easier said than done.  

 

They tried to stay somewhat competitive and filled a couple holes.  Murphy looked decent yesterday and Star is clogging up blockers.  I don’t think he’s worth 10 mill a year, but if we had Luke Kuechly out there instead of Edmunds, we might be seeing this in a different light.  Edmunds was HORRIFIC yesterday.

 

 It’s a lot easier to build things up when you have cap room, which we will have next season.  We weren’t going to compete for a super bowl this year gents.  I don’t mind taking it on the chin for a year if it means success going forward.  We wouldn’t be the first team in league history to do so.

 

And All people are saying is this new found development take it on the chin year is just an after the fact spin.  Otherwise NONE of the offseason moves and week 1 Roster make sense do they?