National Josh Allen buzz after 1 preseason half

[yungmack]

3 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

Ask this question again in a few weeks. We Bills fans love our pick now as well as the other teams love theirs as well. Thinks should become clearer as the season moves on.

 

Funny thing though as I recall that most of this board acted gut punched when they saw Allen get drafted over Rosen.

What do you mean "we"? Other than showing he has a Jeff George arm and was inaccurate with it, I didn't see anything to change my opinion that McBeane made a huge mistake paying what they did for this kid. If winning the SB is the goal, the record shows that none of the dominant QBs - Starr, Bradshaw, Montana, Aikman, Brady - were big arms. But it's early, and I'm hoping against hope he turns out to be "The One."

Edited August 11, 2018 by yungmack

[JinxedBill1]

My body is ready for more...

[Dr. Who]

Just now, BillsFan4 said:

Hey @transplantbillsfan, thanks for sharing all those tweets (etc). Appreciate you taking the time to do that! 

 

 

 

 

Agreed. And Transplant was so against Allen before the draft. Open mind is a good thing, folks.

1 minute ago, yungmack said:

What do you mean "we"? Other than showing he has a Jeff George arm and was inaccurate with it, I didn't see anything to change my opinion that McBeane made a huge mistake paying what they did for this kid. If winning the SB is the goal, the record shows that none of the dominant QBs - Starr, Bradshaw, Montana, Aikman, Brady - were big arms. But it's early, and I'm hoping against hope he turns out to be "The One."

And by paying what they did, you mean #12 and two second round picks. That's not mortgaging the future. It's a bargain if he's a franchise qb. Favre and Elway were big-armed qbs, btw. It's not like a strong arm precludes winning a SB. It ought to be obvious it's a good thing if one isn't a knucklehead and can learn from mistakes. So far, Allen is promising.

[JMF2006]

7 hours ago, Bad Things said:

instead of punting they should just have Josh Allen go out on 4th down and throw a 78 yd intereception every time

— PFTCommenter (@PFTCommenter) August 10, 2018

 

?  I never actually thought of something like this before.  Do any of you know if teams have done something like this in the past?  Kinda like a Hail Mary play I suppose.

 

So as the defender bats the ball down and then the line of scrimmage is back where the Bills snapped it .........78 yds in the wrong direction.

BTW I thought the kid looked pretty good with those turnstiles in front of him

 

Must have felt like he was back in Wyoming with that line and the drops  

[Andy1]

31 minutes ago, CowboyBill said:

The crazy thing about this whole Allen story is, Firebough knew what they had in Allen and they couldn’t give him away. He fell into Wyoming’s lap after their first choice got a P5  offer. Everybody crapped all over him the second Mel Kiper mentioned his name. The thought was he could never succeed in the NFL because he didn’t play for a power conference. Wyoming knew what they had though. The Bills fans now see what he is and can become but most people still think he is trash. He’s just going to have to prove himself once again. The kid has not been handed an ounce of credit besides from his coaches, his teammates, and his teams fans who will look past some coachable flaws.

 

I had never been a Bills fan before the draft, but I am a huge Josh Allen fan and am now a Bills fan because he was my guy at Wyoming. The way JA plays will win you over. He’s going to make dumb mistakes and at times you’re just going to say “what the hell was that” but you’ll use that same phrase when he does something no other person can physically do. I created an account here at TBD right after the draft and it has been funny to see how the tides are shifting from negative JA to I NEED more JA in my life. If he doesn’t start week one, then his last preseason game will be the last time you see one of his “you’ve got to be shi++ing me, that’s not even possible” plays while listening to the media and everybody else bag on him being a bust, all the while knowing you NEED more JA in your life. Just know, JA has been hearing all the hate and he has a fire in his belly that will not let him fail. Soon enough everyone will know too and you will be able to say, “ I told you so”. 

 

Welcome to Bills Nation. Glad to have you on the wagon train. I'm thrilled we were able to move up in the draft to get JA. He is raw but the talent cannot be denied. His throws are going to be on the weekly NFL highlight reels. This is a QB driven league. The big time QBs and their teams are promoted by the league. He can make crazy good throws and he's going to be fun to watch. Other rookie Qbs may have better completion %, but they don't make the throws JA makes.

[Domdab99]

The one, under-the-radar pass that impressed me a lot was the little side-arm screen he threw to get the ball around a defender. 

[SWATeam]

Really entertaining to see all the hype now.

 

What he has showed so far with the Bills was clear as day on his college tape, at the combine, and at the Senior bowl.  

 

Kid is an IMMENSE talent with a reasonable chance to be special.  He was surrounded by horrid talent at Wyoming.  We got lucky, if Allen goes to a better school he goes #1 overall.

Edited August 11, 2018 by SWATeam

[Jay_Fixit]

3 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

I've said this elsewhere - Allen's throws remind me of Eichel's passes - it's like the ball has eyes on it.  

Man I wish I got to see Eichel more.

 

I’m over here stuck watching 2 time Art Ross winner McDavid every game.

Edited August 11, 2018 by Jay_Fixit

[Prickly Pete]

5 hours ago, maryland-bills-fan said:

Nice color pants.    I disagree.  The most important thing this year is to develop the guy and not screw anything up.

 

Thx.

He isn't JP Lossman. 

[Bangarang]

39 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

Agreed. And Transplant was so against Allen before the draft. Open mind is a good thing, folks.

 

Transplant was always going to quickly change his opinion  on Allen if we drafted him.

[Buffalo716]

1 hour ago, CowboyBill said:

The crazy thing about this whole Allen story is, Firebough knew what they had in Allen and they couldn’t give him away. He fell into Wyoming’s lap after their first choice got a P5  offer. Everybody crapped all over him the second Mel Kiper mentioned his name. The thought was he could never succeed in the NFL because he didn’t play for a power conference. Wyoming knew what they had though. The Bills fans now see what he is and can become but most people still think he is trash. He’s just going to have to prove himself once again. The kid has not been handed an ounce of credit besides from his coaches, his teammates, and his teams fans who will look past some coachable flaws.

 

I had never been a Bills fan before the draft, but I am a huge Josh Allen fan and am now a Bills fan because he was my guy at Wyoming. The way JA plays will win you over. He’s going to make dumb mistakes and at times you’re just going to say “what the hell was that” but you’ll use that same phrase when he does something no other person can physically do. I created an account here at TBD right after the draft and it has been funny to see how the tides are shifting from negative JA to I NEED more JA in my life. If he doesn’t start week one, then his last preseason game will be the last time you see one of his “you’ve got to be shi++ing me, that’s not even possible” plays while listening to the media and everybody else bag on him being a bust, all the while knowing you NEED more JA in your life. Just know, JA has been hearing all the hate and he has a fire in his belly that will not let him fail. Soon enough everyone will know too and you will be able to say, “ I told you so”. 

 

You know that literally has nothing to do with people not liking him ...

 

do do you know how many good QBs have come out of non power conference schools?

 

nobody disliked Big Ben cause he played in the MAC

 

it had nothing to do with the school 

[Kirby Jackson]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

You know that literally has nothing to do with people not liking him ...

 

do do you know how many good QBs have come out of non power conference schools?

 

nobody disliked Big Ben cause he played in the MAC

 

it had nothing to do with the school 

I agree with this. I don’t think fans didn’t like Allen because he went to Wyoming. The completion percentage was the OVERWHELMING issue people had. Is he accurate enough? 

[ddaryl]

I was against both Allen (low comp % was my red flag) at draft time and Peterman after the that last throw in the playoffs (a soft ball on a short out almost INT'd).

 

After camp reports and the 1st preseason game I'm over that and I am now looking for some consistency to see it if is truly for real or just an anomaly. 

 

Proof is always in the pudding. 

 

I was also very impressed with the 1st string OL and WR crew... but that had a lot to do with Peterman's quick release and timing that he had going for him.

 

Edited August 11, 2018 by ddaryl

[Buffalo716]

2 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I agree with this. I don’t think fans didn’t like Allen because he went to Wyoming. The completion percentage was the OVERWHELMING issue people had. Is he accurate enough? 

 

Exactly. Not that completion % = accuracy but yes people were suspect over 57%

 

to think we didn’t like him cus he was a Wyoming Cowboy is ludicrous 

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

I will say with absolute certainty that there is not a timetable. I think if you go back to the press conferences you will find that both McDermott and Beane have said so.  

 

And I'd guess there is not one coach on the Bills who would say with absolute certainty that Allen will never be as precise as Brady or Brees.  Allen is going to be a much better QB in five years than he is now. 

I am confident that there is no coach on this team and in this league who will say that Allen will ever be as precise as Brady or Brees. If you think otherwise that is fine. 

 

With respect to plan/timetable or whatever word you are comfortable with of course it is predicated on how Allen advances.

 

 

Edited August 11, 2018 by JohnC

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

10 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I am confident that there is no coach on this team and in this league who will say that Allen will ever be as precise as Brady or Brees. If you think otherwise that is fine. 

 

 

 

 

...because Brady's KNOWN precision had him go in the 6th at #199?......your foresight can only be explained by Windex on your "crystal bawls" I assume.....hindsight is a beautiful thing...SMH....

[Real McClappy]

8 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

If the the other team doesn't intercept the ball then it comes all the way back to the line of scrimmage. Otherwise teams would have always done this.

 

 

I propose that on 4th down the hall becomes a live ball so that even if the other team doesn't intercept it then ball goes to where it lands or rolls. For the offense however they have catch the ball. It would be too easy for the offense to just pick a lose ball and advance it from there.

 

this would also eliminate the punting  game along with the punter and longsnapper making more roster spots for position players. It would also greatly reduce injuries that comes with the kicking game.

 

 

 

 

This would be stupid no? If the ball lands incomplete the opposing team would take is from the original LOS.

[JohnC]

18 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

...because Brady's KNOWN precision had him go in the 6th at #199?......your foresight can only be explained by Windex on your "crystal bawls" I assume.....hindsight is a beautiful thing...SMH....

Brady is a HOF qb who is one of the most accurate passers in the history of the game. I'm confident that Allen will never attain that extraordinary level of accuracy. If you think otherwise then so be it. 

Edited August 11, 2018 by JohnC

[CowboyBill]

36 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

Exactly. Not that completion % = accuracy but yes people were suspect over 57%

 

to think we didn’t like him cus he was a Wyoming Cowboy is ludicrous 

I never said it was because he was from Wyoming. What I’m saying is he has never had the chance to play with a lot of talent surrounding him. Do you suppose that if he had played in a power 5 with real receivers and an offensive line that didn’t resemble a colander he might have had a better completion percentage? When he has time to stand in the pocket, he can be lethal and the entire field is his playground. All I’m really trying to say is he has a lot of haters because he’s always been in less than ideal situations. Wentz was absolutely able to dominate at NDSU, but that team was already world beaters. The year before Allen came to Wyoming they were 2-10.  If you had put Allen at NDSU would he have dominated too? Don’t know and we never will, can he dominate in the NFL with good coaching and talent that is on par with the rest of the league? Maybe. He just needs the chance to show it. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

7 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Brady is a HOF qb who is one of the most accurate passers in the history of the game. I'm confident that he will never attain the level of accuracy. If you think otherwise then so be it. 

 

 

...HARDLY my point....I'm talking about the EXPECTATION when he was drafted in the 6th at #199......apologize if that was somehow misconstrued from my post.....

[transplantbillsfan]

9 hours ago, Fadingpain said:

The high points showcased above are examples of the things Allen can do, as have long been acknowledged by even his fiercest critics.  Tremendous arm, great velocity, at times can deliver big time home run type throws.  

 

The problem is the other stuff.  The first pass of the game: big arm, big throw....3 yards out of bounds.

 

47% completion percentage for a half of football.

 

The Panthers game did not reveal new insight into Allen's potential, it showcased exactly who he is and who he has been.

 

Here's hoping he can morph into a substantially more consistent, accurate passer. 

 

 

 

 

Do you think 47% is an accurate reflection of how accurate Allen was with his passes in terms of where he wanted the ball to go?

[SWATeam]

56 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

You know that literally has nothing to do with people not liking him ...

 

do do you know how many good QBs have come out of non power conference schools?

 

nobody disliked Big Ben cause he played in the MAC

 

it had nothing to do with the school 

In my opinion, the stats that made everyone hate him, were a result of his abysmal supporting cast at Wyoming.  Most small, untalented schools, play other untalented schools, so stats are still relevant.   Wyoming was playing out of their class.  They had no talent, especially on offense (minus Allen of course).  The interior oline was among the worst I have seen.  

 

Plus he played in a pro-style offense, so his stats suffered from that as well.  Modern college offense lends itself to better stats, especially completion percentage.  Another factor of playing at Wyoming...

 

The stats guys hated Allen.  The eyeball guys loved him.  I'm with the later.

 

If Allen played with better talent he would have went #1.

[JohnC]

3 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

...HARDLY my point....I'm talking about the EXPECTATION when he was drafted in the 6th at #199......apologize if that was somehow misconstrued from my post.....

Of course no one knew how great Brady was going to be when he was selected. What I do know now is that he is arguably the greatest qb in modern times. I'm confident that Allen who was not known as a precise passer in college will never attain the Brady level of accuracy. If you disagree with that then so be it. 

Edited August 11, 2018 by JohnC

[Jay_Fixit]

3 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Do you think 47% is an accurate reflection of how accurate Allen was with his passes in terms of where he wanted the ball to go?

Man if 47% is bad, Ravens fans must really be worried about the 39% Lamar had the other day.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

6 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Yes he did get more reps with the 1s in practice yesterday 

 

Ben Allbright was not impressed by the TD pass. 

 

 

 

 

 

Allbright is one of those stat-nerds that have hated on Allen since before the draft. He’s safe to ignore.

[Real McClappy]

TY Transplant, this is so damn refreshing.

 

It took me about a week to get past the Allen over Rosen on draft day. Allen was def a top 10 draft pick with the skill set he displays from what I see. If Allen Busts somehow I would not really even give Beane and McD hell unless they choose to poorly develop him. This FO should get another shot if for some reason this doesn't work out IMO.

 

That said, I so damn hope he is better than Kelly and gives us stability at the position for the next 15years and a few SB runs. JOSHUA - Take us to the promised land

 

 

Edited August 11, 2018 by Real McCoy

[SWATeam]

Just now, joesixpack said:

 

Allbright is one of those stat-nerds that have hated on Allen since before the draft. He’s safe to ignore.

A lot of these guys (Mike Schopp) don't even watch football.  They look at numbers.

 

In real life, I'm a numbers guy.  To me, it's clear that football has too many variables to warrant the current worship of analytics.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

4 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Of course no one knew how great Brady was going to be when he was selected. What I do know now is that he is arguably the greatest qb in modern times. I'm confident that Allen who was not known as a precise passer in college will never attain the Brady level of accuracy. If you disagree with that then so be it. 

 

...Allen is as much as an unknown this early on as was Brady or as is Rosen, Darnold, Mayfield, Rudpolph, Jackson,Lauletta, etc......point is only time will tell and NOBODY knows.....

[Buffalo716]

1 minute ago, CowboyBill said:

I never said it was because he was from Wyoming. What I’m saying is he has never had the chance to play with a lot of talent surrounding him. Do you suppose that if he had played in a power 5 with real receivers and an offensive line that didn’t resemble a colander he might have had a better completion percentage? When he has time to stand in the pocket, he can be lethal and the entire field is his playground. All I’m really trying to say is he has a lot of haters because he’s always been in less than ideal situations. Wentz was absolutely able to dominate at NDSU, but that team was already world beaters. The year before Allen came to Wyoming they were 2-10.  If you had put Allen at NDSU would he have dominated too? Don’t know and we never will, can he dominate in the NFL with good coaching and talent that is on par with the rest of the league? Maybe. He just needs the chance to show it. 

 

Of course Josh Allen would have dominated at NDSU.

 

I don’t discriminate against where a player went to college or what round he was drafted in.. it means nothing.. I’ve been around the game my whole life as the son of a coach... probably too much 

 

It would mean nothing to me if Josh was at USC.. as I said earlier I’ve seen TONS of good QBs come from non power 5 schools over the years. I understand talent gap 

 

I was around UB football at its infancy when it restarted at D1.. I know what a bad football team looks like lol

 

But Those teams at Wyoming with Allen would scrape those start up UB teams lol

 

 

 

[RocCityRoller]

10 hours ago, Fadingpain said:

The high points showcased above are examples of the things Allen can do, as have long been acknowledged by even his fiercest critics.  Tremendous arm, great velocity, at times can deliver big time home run type throws.  

 

The problem is the other stuff.  The first pass of the game: big arm, big throw....3 yards out of bounds.

 

47% completion percentage for a half of football.

 

The Panthers game did not reveal new insight into Allen's potential, it showcased exactly who he is and who he has been.

 

Here's hoping he can morph into a substantially more consistent, accurate passer. 

 

 

 

 

You don't seem to ever bring up his scrambling ability which I think yielded one or two first downs and a YPC well over 5 YPC. Better than Murphy, our best RB in PG1, or that some tier 3 WRs gave up on deep plays.

 

He also stepped up in many cr@p pockets to deliver. Even off his back foot the pass to Lee was pretty special. (good job Lee btw) Let the receiver fight for the ball.

 

I love me some Josh Allen, let him sit and stew a bit. it was good for Favre, Young etc.

 

I mentioned Allen reminded me of Favre a long time ago on this board and got roasted for it. Bad college completion % but a gunslinger and elusive.

 

I was wrong, Allen is a mix of Favre (arm), Young (elusiveness) and Roethlisberger (size) without the rapey bits.

 

Allen will be the future of the Bills, and the future looks bright. I can sit and wait a season or so before it happens. This FO is smart enough and patient enough to realize this.

 

McNabb, Young, Favre, Rogers all had to sit and learn. AJM will be a 6-10 to 9-7 QB, and allow Allen to earn it. Not sure what to make of Peterman. In the long run he is our QB3. Alex Van Pelt brain, but weak arm. Can come in as QB3 and do some things as long as Daboll can adjust. From Pre-season game 1 Daboll can have 2-3 game plans in a single game.

 

Looking at the BCS championship, Daboll can switch QBs on the fly, and give them a live action game plan to succeed. 17 points in Q1 and Q2 against a stout Carolina D shows this.

 

I'd be surprised if Buffalo doesn't average 24-28 ppg this year regardless of who is QB. If Allen sits the future is even brighter.

Edited August 11, 2018 by RocCityRoller

[Buffalo716]

11 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

In my opinion, the stats that made everyone hate him, were a result of his abysmal supporting cast at Wyoming.  Most small, untalented schools, play other untalented schools, so stats are still relevant.   Wyoming was playing out of their class.  They had no talent, especially on offense (minus Allen of course).  The interior oline was among the worst I have seen.  

 

Plus he played in a pro-style offense, so his stats suffered from that as well.  Modern college offense lends itself to better stats, especially completion percentage.  Another factor of playing at Wyoming...

 

The stats guys hated Allen.  The eyeball guys loved him.  I'm with the later.

 

If Allen played with better talent he would have went #1.

 

How is Wyoming playing out of there class?Just asking?

 

they play in the mountain west conference... a perfect sized conference for them because it’s not power 5... unless you think they should be relegated to FCS

Edited August 11, 2018 by Buffalo716

[SWATeam]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

 

How is Wyoming playing out of there class?Just asking?

 

they play in the mountain west conference... a perfect sized conference for them... unless you think they should be relegated to FCS

I think that conference is fine for them, generally.  I'm saying that the actual talent on THIS TEAM, was FCS level.  They were really bad and it made it hard on Allen.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

8 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

A lot of these guys (Mike Schopp) don't even watch football.  They look at numbers.

 

In real life, I'm a numbers guy.  To me, it's clear that football has too many variables to warrant the current worship of analytics.

 

Schopp thinks analytics are relevant because he’s a baseball guy.

[Buffalo716]

4 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

I think that conference is fine for them, generally.  I'm saying that the actual talent on THIS TEAM, was FCS level.  They were really bad and it made it hard on Allen.

 

I get they weren’t that talented offensively but they had a top defense in the conference 

 

far from FCS level as a team... I was scouting when UB returned to 1A. That was a talentless team that had no business on a 1A field

 

Allen wasn’t in a spot that did him favors. I understand that...

Edited August 11, 2018 by Buffalo716

[SWATeam]

1 minute ago, joesixpack said:

 

Schopp thinks analytics are relevant because he’s a baseball guy.

To me, analytics in football is most useful for team building.  How to allocate salary cap and stuff like that.

 

On the field, it's tough...  Baseball is perfect of analytics because it is basically a bunch of one-on-one matchups.  Far fewer variables.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

12 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Do you think 47% is an accurate reflection of how accurate Allen was with his passes in terms of where he wanted the ball to go?

 

 

...HAS to be.....practicing with the 3's and in his first pre-season game certainly provides a significant body of work to assess his ceiling....I'm thinking he probably doesn't survive the first cuts and McBeane gets fired for the wasted pick....

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 hour ago, Bangarang said:

 

Transplant was always going to quickly change his opinion  on Allen if we drafted him.

This is true.  

 

And true to nature he’ll be the biggest supporter of Allen here  on out.  

 

 

[SWATeam]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

I get they weren’t that talented offensively but they had a top defense in the conference 

 

far from FCS level as a team... I was scouting when UB returned to 1A. That was a talentless team that had no business on a 1A field

That's possible, I didn't watch entire games and focus on the D.  But their defensive talent is really irrelavent with regards to scouting Allen.  His supporting cast was really bad and his stats that everyone judged him on suffered.

[Buffalo716]

Just now, SWATeam said:

That's possible, I didn't watch entire games and focus on the D.  But their defensive talent is really irrelavent with regards to scouting Allen.  His supporting cast was really bad and his stats that everyone judged him on suffered.

 

I understand that. I said that Wyoming didn’t do Allen any favors... except get him ready for the pro game because he ran a heavy dose of pro styled offense

 

last year he had talent on offense. (WR, RB, TE, Cmade practice squads in NFL )and he was better but still needs to be more consistent 

[cee-low the bill south]

I find it funny that people praise Sam Darnold and Baker Mayfield but talk trash about about Josh Allen to be honest I didn't see one throw out those two that was eye popping as Josh throws IJS