[reopened. behave your fine selves] Kelvin Benjamin criticizes time with Panthers, Cam Newton

[CommonCents]

1 minute ago, stuvian said:

 

Newton is a talented, confident, good looking, successful and flambuoyant African American man. He's probably been spoilt by parents and coaches most of his life and comes across like a selfish diva. I think that some of the backlash against him has some racism to it. In my eyes, he has backed up all his claims with is play and is a truly unique and stellar talent who has done extremely well with mediocre support at the skill positions (except Greg Olsen).

Selfish Diva, Johnny Manziel also fits that bill. Look at how many folks hate him. Same position, same in your face personality, different color, same type of hate. 

[CLTbills]

13 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

Selfish Diva, Johnny Manziel also fits that bill. Look at how many folks hate him. Same position, same in your face personality, different color, same type of hate. 

I really don't like the race card here.

In all honesty, I'm pretty positive just as many (if not more) hate Manziel as hate Cam.

[C.Biscuit97]

18 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

Selfish Diva, Johnny Manziel also fits that bill. Look at how many folks hate him. Same position, same in your face personality, different color, same type of hate. 

I see a ton of fans rooting for Manziel like he was unfairly treated.  He also has a domestic violence issue that some fans don’t seem to care about.  

6 minutes ago, CLTbills said:

I really don't like the race card here.

In all honesty, I'm pretty positive just as many (if not more) hate Manziel as hate Cam.

Again, Manziel did a bunch of drugs and has a domestic issue.  He also sucks as a pro qb.  It’s not even a comparison between him and Newton.  I definitely believe I’d Manziel had Newton’s resume, he’d be much more celebrated than Cam.  And Cam didn’t allegedly hit a woman. 

[BringBackOrton]

26 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

Selfish Diva, Johnny Manziel also fits that bill. Look at how many folks hate him. Same position, same in your face personality, different color, same type of hate. 

See there’s a handful of TBD posters who have made it their life mission to call out “hypocrites” who don’t actually exist. They pollute every Colin Kaepernick, Cam Newton Tim Tebow and Johnny Manziel thread making up strawmen who they then call hypocrites, and then pat themselves on the back when the nonexistent hypocrites don’t defend themselves, because, you know, they don’t exist.

6 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I see a ton of fans rooting for Manziel like he was unfairly treated.  He also has a domestic violence issue that some fans don’t seem to care about.  

Again, Manziel did a bunch of drugs and has a domestic issue.  He also sucks as a pro qb.  It’s not even a comparison between him and Newton.  I definitely believe I’d Manziel had Newton’s resume, he’d be much more celebrated than Cam.  And Cam didn’t allegedly hit a woman. 

Ah, exhibit A has arrived just in time! See how he references “tons of fans,” that of course no one else knows about or hears from. And how hypocritical they are!

Edited August 6, 2018 by BringBackOrton

[Steptide]

Can I just add that if t.o. We're to get signed by an NFL team or Canadian team (which I think he did maybe?) people would be just as interested in watching him as manziel. Drama = interest/ratings 

Edited August 6, 2018 by Steptide

[4_kidd_4]

1 hour ago, Steptide said:

Can I just add that if t.o. We're to get signed by an NFL team or Canadian team (which I think he did maybe?) people would be just as interested in watching him as manziel. Drama = interest/ratings 

 

He tried out for Saskatchewan, apparently still runs a 4.43 40.

 

Dude can still run, that’s for sure.

[Dablitzkrieg]

Just catch the ball and score.  Who cares.  Let him talk junk, but alas, Mcbeane were pretty upset.

Edited August 6, 2018 by Dablitzkrieg

[BigBuff423]

8 hours ago, westside said:

I'm not sure I liked the way the coach handled the situation. He calls out KB for calling out the Panthers? Seems a little hypocritical to me. 

He should have kept it in the lockerroom instead of calling him out in the press. I'm a little disappointed in McDermott's behavior. 

 

I respectfully disagree. McD was asked a question and instead of side-stepping it or giving us all some b.s. coach-speak he said there's a time and place and now is not the time nor the place. Fair enough, IMHO. He didn't blast KB, he didn't call him names or single him out without prompting. He answered a question posed to him, honestly. 

 

I like that. And, I'm sure McD did have a conversation with KB privately and probably a bit more direct with some creative language in there as well. But something else we've seen from Beane and McD, they still keep the humanity portion of their job in focus. So, I'm sure McD balanced his admonishment of KB's choice of time and place with we're happy you're here, play for the Bills and the fans and see how beloved you truly can become and leave the past where it is...behind you. I'm sure it was done with some compassion and yet, direct and to the point about how *not* to do that again. That part should be kept private between the team and KB. But McD's answer was succinct and honest. That's about all you can  ask for as a fan and maybe even as a news source. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I see a ton of fans rooting for Manziel like he was unfairly treated.  He also has a domestic violence issue that some fans don’t seem to care about.  

Again, Manziel did a bunch of drugs and has a domestic issue.  He also sucks as a pro qb.  It’s not even a comparison between him and Newton.  I definitely believe I’d Manziel had Newton’s resume, he’d be much more celebrated than Cam.  And Cam didn’t allegedly hit a woman. 

 

I don't think anyone is comparing Newton and Manziel as QB.  As you say, they are not comparable - one has a significant resume with much to celebrate, one busted out PDQ

 

The point is, they appear to have a comparable "diva" kind of personality.

 

Your belief would appear to be a moot point because, as noted, Manziel busted out and therefore is unlikely to approach Newton's resume

 

I would like to know who these "ton of fans" are, because I sure don't hear read or see 'em.

 

One could also make the point that there are and have been a number of black QB, arguably none of whom have had Newton's resume to date, who seem to be good teammates without the "diva" personality and seem widely respected.  Doug Williams, Warren Moon, David Garrard, Teddy Bridgewater, and Desean Watson come to mind.  No one ever has bad things to say about Tyrod Taylor as a diva, people who criticize him criticize his play.

 

 

[BringBackOrton]

8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don't think anyone is comparing Newton and Manziel as QB.  As you say, they are not comparable - one has a significant resume with much to celebrate, one busted out PDQ

 

The point is, they appear to have a comparable "diva" kind of personality.

 

Your belief would appear to be a moot point because, as noted, Manziel busted out and therefore is unlikely to approach Newton's resume

 

I would like to know who these "ton of fans" are, because I sure don't hear read or see 'em.

 

One could also make the point that there are and have been a number of black QB, arguably none of whom have had Newton's resume to date, who seem to be good teammates without the "diva" personality and seem widely respected.  Doug Williams, Warren Moon, David Garrard, Teddy Bridgewater, and Desean Watson come to mind.  No one ever has bad things to say about Tyrod Taylor as a diva, people who criticize him criticize his play.

 

 

And, you know, Super Bowl winner Russell Wilson has a superior resume to Newton in some respects.  Does he get hated on for being a diva?

 

CBiscuit knows those tons of fans though.  Just ask him.  He'll cite his last post about how "people" do this, etc.

[3rdand12]

On 8/5/2018 at 12:28 AM, 1ZAYDAY1 said:

Point is... he wouldn’t be talking like that if he didn’t truly feel he was in a better spot.

 

I think he confident in this scheme and where he’s at physically and mentally. Yeah I don’t like the talk, but sometimes when something is eating at you it’s good to put it out there, get it off your chest and move on.

 

Contract year, he knows he has a lot to prove. Truthfully I think we will see him perform at a high level this year. He gotta stay healthy. I can see 60 receptions 1000 yds and 10 TDs.

This is a perspective i have not considered. Hope you are onto something here !

 : )

11 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

I wanna be like you when I grow up.?

he does inspire doesn't he ?
 good choice BTW, Chandler#81. or dumb luck ? Either way Hapless is our boy and I am glad of it.

 trust the process : )

11 hours ago, westside said:

I'm not sure I liked the way the coach handled the situation. He calls out KB for calling out the Panthers? Seems a little hypocritical to me. 

He should have kept it in the lockerroom instead of calling him out in the press. I'm a little disappointed in McDermott's behavior. 

set the tone for the team, and let the league know etc .
     I think he was wise to speak out, as the press surely would be pestering him.

 Also i feel rather sure he had a father son talk with Kelvin about how these things can affect the Team and others .

[3rdand12]

3 hours ago, BigBuff423 said:

 

I respectfully disagree. McD was asked a question and instead of side-stepping it or giving us all some b.s. coach-speak he said there's a time and place and now is not the time nor the place. Fair enough, IMHO. He didn't blast KB, he didn't call him names or single him out without prompting. He answered a question posed to him, honestly. 

 

I like that. And, I'm sure McD did have a conversation with KB privately and probably a bit more direct with some creative language in there as well. But something else we've seen from Beane and McD, they still keep the humanity portion of their job in focus. So, I'm sure McD balanced his admonishment of KB's choice of time and place with we're happy you're here, play for the Bills and the fans and see how beloved you truly can become and leave the past where it is...behind you. I'm sure it was done with some compassion and yet, direct and to the point about how *not* to do that again. That part should be kept private between the team and KB. But McD's answer was succinct and honest. That's about all you can  ask for as a fan and maybe even as a news source. 

 Quite well said 423 ! Thanks

[outsidethebox]

22 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

This is a perspective i have not considered. Hope you are onto something here !

 : )

he does inspire doesn't he ?
 good choice BTW, Chandler#81. or dumb luck ? Either way Hapless is our boy and I am glad of it.

 trust the process : )

set the tone for the team, and let the league know etc .
     I think he was wise to speak out, as the press surely would be pestering him.

 Also i feel rather sure he had a father son talk with Kelvin about how these things can affect the Team and others .

If he had that talk, why blast him in the press?

He wants a team full of choir boys. Seems we've seen this before. Does his loyalties lie with his players or the panthers? 

It doesn't sit right with me. He should have kept that in house. Just my opinion. 

[3rdand12]

1 minute ago, westside said:

If he had that talk, why blast him in the press?

He wants a team full of choir boys. Seems we've seen this before. Does his loyalties lie with his players or the panthers? 

It doesn't sit right with me. He should have kept that in house. Just my opinion. 

I do not feel he blasted him i guess ? He was asked about it and answered. I am sure there was more discussion between he and Benjamin behind the scenes !

 I respect your opinion, just do not have the same feeling about McD's response : )

[Hapless Bills Fan]

48 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

And, you know, Super Bowl winner Russell Wilson has a superior resume to Newton in some respects.  Does he get hated on for being a diva?

 

Geesh, talk about brain fart.  Durrr.  Russ Wilson should be at the head of the list that came to my mind.  Cant think why I missed him.

-Doug Williams, Warren Moon, David Garrard, Teddy Bridgewater, and Desean Watson

 

Then on the "sometimes reviled" side we have Kaep and Jameis "Crab Legs, Grab for da Crabs" Winston.

[outsidethebox]

1 minute ago, 3rdand12 said:

I do not feel he blasted him i guess ? He was asked about it and answered. I am sure there was more discussion between he and Benjamin behind the scenes !

 I respect your opinion, just do not have the same feeling about McD's response : )

Thanks 3rd, I put myself in KB's shoes. He really didn't say anything terrible. If my boss talkedto me in private, I wouldn't expect him to make the comments he made to the press. I don't think it sends a good message with the players. It wouldn't with me. He's always talking about a family, keeping things in house. I didn't expect that from him.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

46 minutes ago, westside said:

Thanks 3rd, I put myself in KB's shoes. He really didn't say anything terrible. If my boss talkedto me in private, I wouldn't expect him to make the comments he made to the press. I don't think it sends a good message with the players. It wouldn't with me. He's always talking about a family, keeping things in house. I didn't expect that from him.

 

McDermott pretty much has to say something when asked a direct question.

 

 

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don't think anyone is comparing Newton and Manziel as QB.  As you say, they are not comparable - one has a significant resume with much to celebrate, one busted out PDQ

 

The point is, they appear to have a comparable "diva" kind of personality.

 

Your belief would appear to be a moot point because, as noted, Manziel busted out and therefore is unlikely to approach Newton's resume

 

I would like to know who these "ton of fans" are, because I sure don't hear read or see 'em.

 

One could also make the point that there are and have been a number of black QB, arguably none of whom have had Newton's resume to date, who seem to be good teammates without the "diva" personality and seem widely respected.  Doug Williams, Warren Moon, David Garrard, Teddy Bridgewater, and Desean Watson come to mind.  No one ever has bad things to say about Tyrod Taylor as a diva, people who criticize him criticize his play.

 

 

Read the Manziel thread here.  There are good number of fans, more than they should be, rooting hard for the guy.  Barstool sports (I know, I know) has a whole platform for a guy who has been accused of domestic violence.  He gets a little too much love for a guy with his past. 

 

And clearly, Newton has some diva issues and hasn’t been the best leader.  But his resume, minus a SB win, is extremely impressive. Yet, he seems to take a lot of crap.  And again, I never really heard people get on Rodgers for his celebrations.  And when Brady screams at his coaches, it’s his “passion to win.”  If Newton does that, he’s vilified.  

 

Either way, Newton would have been amazing here and KB looks like a bitter ex.

[outsidethebox]

47 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

McDermott pretty much has to say something when asked a direct question.

 

 

I respectfully disagree. All he had to say, we spoke about it, it's behind us, etc, etc...

 

I like McDermott, I just think he could have handled it better. Just my opinion. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

29 minutes ago, westside said:

I respectfully disagree. All he had to say, we spoke about it, it's behind us, etc, etc...

 

I like McDermott, I just think he could have handled it better. Just my opinion. 

 

Fair enough, I grant he had alternatives as you mention.

[Lfod]

1 hour ago, westside said:

I respectfully disagree. All he had to say, we spoke about it, it's behind us, etc, etc...

 

I like McDermott, I just think he could have handled it better. Just my opinion. 

It's close to the season. Kelvin Benjamin is an important peace to the team. McDermott probably told him to man up and get himself together in private and waved it off as dealt with publicly. 

 

It's probably the best that whatever happened between McDermott and Benjamin over what happened stays between them and he does put it behind the team. 

 

I'm not trying to justify what happened. Just that it doesn't need a judge or jury. Just a guy mouthing off in a brutal sport. 

[BringBackOrton]

2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Read the Manziel thread here.  There are good number of fans, more than they should be, rooting hard for the guy.  Barstool sports (I know, I know) has a whole platform for a guy who has been accused of domestic violence.  He gets a little too much love for a guy with his past. 

 

And clearly, Newton has some diva issues and hasn’t been the best leader.  But his resume, minus a SB win, is extremely impressive. Yet, he seems to take a lot of crap.  And again, I never really heard people get on Rodgers for his celebrations.  And when Brady screams at his coaches, it’s his “passion to win.”  If Newton does that, he’s vilified.  

 

Either way, Newton would have been amazing here and KB looks like a bitter ex.

You can root for Manziel without thinking he was treated unfairly, what kind of nonsense is that?

 

Who has higher NFL jersey sales this year? Cam or Manziel?

 

Yeah, no one on TBD EVER calls Brady a whiny B word when he screams on the sideline. DC Tom calls him a great leader every Sunday.

 

Its time to step out of that bubble that you’ve built for yourself.

Edited August 7, 2018 by BringBackOrton

[NoSaint]

11 hours ago, CLTbills said:

I really don't like the race card here.

In all honesty, I'm pretty positive just as many (if not more) hate Manziel as hate Cam.

 

As ones had drug, domestic abuse issues, etc... 

 

while the other is mostly just brash in his TD celebrations on his way to the super bowl in an mvp caliber season....

 

 

That we are comparing the two as apples to apples miiiiight give some credence to us being harder on the black guy. Not everyone but almost certainly some.

 

11 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Who has higher NFL jersey sales this year? Cam or Manziel?

 

Its time to step out of that bubble that you’ve built for yourself.

 

As Johnny’s been out of the league for years now... maybe not the best metric? 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

53 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

 

As ones had drug, domestic abuse issues, etc... 

while the other is mostly just brash in his TD celebrations on his way to the super bowl in an mvp caliber season....

That we are comparing the two as apples to apples miiiiight give some credence to us being harder on the black guy. Not everyone but almost certainly some.

As Johnny’s been out of the league for years now... maybe not the best metric? 

 

Whoa whoa whoa coming late to the party here Saint.

 

No “we” is comparing Manzeil and Newton as “apples to apples”

An assertion was made that many many people support Manziel and think he was treated unfairly vs. not so much on Cam

 

Several of us think that’s weak sauce as a comparison - that first of all, there aren’t really all these people exculpating Mr Bust Manziel, many many people said he was a head case before he was drafted and many more joined the party when it became clear that he was, in fact, a head case.

 

In any case, someone claiming legions of Manziel supporters prove Cam gets a raw deal ‘cuz race, and others responding to it saying “no, actually, where are these legions and it proves no such thing” does not constitute an “apples to apples” comparison that proves the initial assertion.

 

It remains a crap metric

 

I think the germaine point is that there are a number of successful black QB who are and have in past been treated with respect and given their propers eg Wilson etc (prev post)

Maybe if Cam doesn’t get his propers or gets criticized for his sideline/media behavior...it’s not because he’s black, it’s because his behaviors merit criticism

 

You may disagree on both points, that’s fine, but the point is it’s at best a matter for debate, because he does behave in a way that is criticized in other players - Jay Cutler as I recall got torn to shreds for his sideline demeanor during the Bears playoff loss after he injured his knee, Brady is widely criticized as a whiney beotch and so forth

[Lfod]

44 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Whoa whoa whoa coming late to the party here Saint.

 

No “we” is comparing Manzeil and Newton as “apples to apples”

An assertion was made that many many people support Manziel and think he was treated unfairly vs. not so much on Cam

 

Several of us think that’s weak sauce as a comparison - that first of all, there aren’t really all these people exculpating Mr Bust Manziel, many many people said he was a head case before he was drafted and many more joined the party when it became clear that he was, in fact, a head case.

 

In any case, someone claiming legions of Manziel supporters prove Cam gets a raw deal ‘cuz race, and others responding to it saying “no, actually, where are these legions and it proves no such thing” does not constitute an “apples to apples” comparison that proves the initial assertion.

 

It remains a crap metric

 

I think the germaine point is that there are a number of successful black QB who are and have in past been treated with respect and given their propers eg Wilson etc (prev post)

Maybe if Cam doesn’t get his propers or gets criticized for his sideline/media behavior...it’s not because he’s black, it’s because his behaviors merit criticism

 

You may disagree on both points, that’s fine, but the point is it’s at best a matter for debate, because he does behave in a way that is criticized in other players - Jay Cutler as I recall got torn to shreds for his sideline demeanor during the Bears playoff loss after he injured his knee, Brady is widely criticized as a whiney beotch and so forth

Please don't ban me...

Edited August 7, 2018 by Lfod

[NoSaint]

7 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Whoa whoa whoa coming late to the party here Saint.

 

No “we” is comparing Manzeil and Newton as “apples to apples”

An assertion was made that many many people support Manziel and think he was treated unfairly vs. not so much on Cam

 

Several of us think that’s weak sauce as a comparison - that first of all, there aren’t really all these people exculpating Mr Bust Manziel, many many people said he was a head case before he was drafted and many more joined the party when it became clear that he was, in fact, a head case.

 

In any case, someone claiming legions of Manziel supporters prove Cam gets a raw deal ‘cuz race, and others responding to it saying “no, actually, where are these legions and it proves no such thing” does not constitute an “apples to apples” comparison that proves the initial assertion.

 

It remains a crap metric

 

I think the germaine point is that there are a number of successful black QB who are and have in past been treated with respect and given their propers eg Wilson etc (prev post)

Maybe if Cam doesn’t get his propers or gets criticized for his sideline/media behavior...it’s not because he’s black, it’s because his behaviors merit criticism

 

You may disagree on both points, that’s fine, but the point is it’s at best a matter for debate, because he does behave in a way that is criticized in other players - Jay Cutler as I recall got torn to shreds for his sideline demeanor during the Bears playoff loss after he injured his knee, Brady is widely criticized as a whiney beotch and so forth

 

While you may handle the conversation responsibly... there are those that certainly do not. 

 

while race may not be a factor for you - I have a hard time believing it’s not a major factor for some and an incremental issue (probably even total subconsciously) for many. 

 

Cams brash and deserves some comments for sure. I’m not saying he’s perfect. I do think the rubric for scoring black QBs is generally a little harsher than their counterparts though.

[BringBackOrton]

10 hours ago, NoSaint said:

 

As ones had drug, domestic abuse issues, etc... 

 

while the other is mostly just brash in his TD celebrations on his way to the super bowl in an mvp caliber season....

 

 

That we are comparing the two as apples to apples miiiiight give some credence to us being harder on the black guy. Not everyone but almost certainly some.

 

 

As Johnny’s been out of the league for years now... maybe not the best metric? 

Do you really think it’s possible there are more Johnny Football fans than Cam Newton fans in the USA?

[bobobonators]

Cam is a below average passer, with great arm strength, and great size/athleticism. It’s hard to disagree with KB’s critique. Cam at times is wildly inaccurate. Even Cam must know this.

 

Josh Allen might be our Cam (minus the post game antics). 

[without a drought]

Cam is still a better QB than Kelvin is a WR, no matter which way you look at this.

[Big Turk]

Strange timing for sure but i guess that's why media members get paid the big bucks to rattle the beehive and see if any bees swarm

[C.Biscuit97]

2 hours ago, NoSaint said:

 

While you may handle the conversation responsibly... there are those that certainly do not. 

 

while race may not be a factor for you - I have a hard time believing it’s not a major factor for some and an incremental issue (probably even total subconsciously) for many. 

 

Cams brash and deserves some comments for sure. I’m not saying he’s perfect. I do think the rubric for scoring black QBs is generally a little harsher than their counterparts though.

Agreed.  Of course, it’s not 100% race based.  But I think there are some people here who are criticizing Cam that would absolutely love Allen if he had Cam’s career and had his personality.  They would love the farm boy’s swagger.  

[Cripple Creek]

On 8/6/2018 at 6:21 AM, Chandler#81 said:

I wanna be like you when I grow up.?

You don’t stand a snowball’s chance in hell, bucko.

[BillsFan17]

 

[BringBackOrton]

35 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Agreed.  Of course, it’s not 100% race based.  But I think there are some people here who are criticizing Cam that would absolutely love Allen if he had Cam’s career and had his personality.  They would love the farm boy’s swagger.  

Why?

 

How do you know the people who still root for Johnny don’t like Cam?

[NoSaint]

53 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Why?

 

How do you know the people who still root for Johnny don’t like Cam?

It’s not all but there’s certainly some.

 

as it turns out, you can see people’s posts on both topics and notice some overlap. It’s not like opinions are top secret here

[BringBackOrton]

51 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

It’s not all but there’s certainly some.

 

as it turns out, you can see people’s posts on both topics and notice some overlap. It’s not like opinions are top secret here

Okay, let's do that!  Let's pull all the "positive" comments about Manziel and cross reference them.  Methinks you might be surprised how much confirmation bias is present in your "TBD is filled with hypocritical racists who love JFF and hate Cam" take.

 

Exhibit A:  The people who said positive things about Johnny Manziel in the COMEBACKSZN thread.  Keep in mind this is a 202 reply thread and I dug up 6 total posts.

On 5/19/2018 at 2:48 PM, ALF said:

I hope he does well in the CFL  and  keeps his life together. Hamilton not far from Buffalo . 

 

Side note Tim Tebow playing for Binghamton, NY Rumble Ponies AA baseball.

On 5/19/2018 at 11:03 AM, no name said:

I have nothing against the kid and glad he is able to get back on the field, cfl or otherwise. keep pushing forward kid

 

On 5/19/2018 at 3:55 PM, SNICE said:

Hope he does well but he does not seem all that excited. Makes you wonder if he really has his heart in it.  

 

On 7/31/2018 at 9:39 PM, The Dean said:

 

 

The Senator is ALIVE! Welcome back, my friend.

 

I have to say, I'm shocked you were never a Johnny Football fan, as he fits your typical fan-boy profile. Flashy, lot's of hype. Air-raid offense guy (let's not forget your deep love affair with Mike Leach). But if so, good for you. You finally got a QB evaluation right.

 

I was never a fan. But I hope he does well personally, and professionally if that's the way it works out. I don't expect to see him playing in the NFL again, but who knows? 

 

And wasn't Jeff Garcia "Doug Flutie 2.0"? Or is he not qualified because he didn't start in the NFL?  Or because he was a WAY better QB than Flutie could have dreamed of being?

 

 

On 5/19/2018 at 11:15 AM, jr1 said:

hope it works out for him

 

On 8/4/2018 at 8:25 PM, Kirby Jackson said:

I love JFF. Last night was tough. He looked like a rich man’s Peterman.  There were mistakes everywhere. It was sad.

 

Exhibit B: What those people said about Cam in this thread 

 

(crickets)

 

NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE COMMENTED ON CAM NEWTON IN THIS THREAD IN ANY WAY.  YOUR BOOGIE MAN IS DEAD.  @C.Biscuit97 COME HERE AND TAKE YOUR NOOGIE.  THE "HYPOCRITE RACIST" MYTH DIES TODAY.

Edited August 7, 2018 by BringBackOrton

[Rocky Landing]

3 hours ago, BringBackOrton said:

Okay, let's do that!  Let's pull all the "positive" comments about Manziel and cross reference them.  Methinks you might be surprised how much confirmation bias is present in your "TBD is filled with hypocritical racists who love JFF and hate Cam" take.

 

Exhibit A:  The people who said positive things about Johnny Manziel in the COMEBACKSZN thread.  Keep in mind this is a 202 reply thread and I dug up 6 total posts.

 

 

 

 

 

Exhibit B: What those people said about Cam in this thread 

 

(crickets)

 

NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE COMMENTED ON CAM NEWTON IN THIS THREAD IN ANY WAY.  YOUR BOOGIE MAN IS DEAD.  @C.Biscuit97 COME HERE AND TAKE YOUR NOOGIE.  THE "HYPOCRITE RACIST" MYTH DIES TODAY.

Is this a joke?

[BringBackOrton]

32 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

Is this a joke?

I wish.

[Wayne Arnold]

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

13 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Agreed.  Of course, it’s not 100% race based.  But I think there are some people here who are criticizing Cam that would absolutely love Allen if he had Cam’s career and had his personality.  They would love the farm boy’s swagger.  

 

I don't understand this kind of hypothetical at all.  Since Allen appears to have his own personality, and also to have achieved high-level Crash Davis Cliche Mastery, we'll never ever get to do that experiment.  We know that before he busted out, Johnny Manziel had both fans who loved his swagger, and harsh critics.  Baker Mayfield has both fans who love his swagger, and harsh critics.  Josh Rosen has both fans who admire his outspokenness, and harsh critics.  I think Cam Newton has both fans who love him, love his swagger, and harsh critics. 

 

So I tend to think it has more to do with a certain element of brashness and swagger inspiring controversy than with race per se.  YMMV.

 

Is some of the Cam criticism harsher because of his race, perhaps so, but like I've said before - other QB who have done some similar sideline things (and are white - see Cutler, Jay) have been harshly criticized.  So it seems pretty simplistic to attribute it all to race.

 

Then there's this: When I was doing a QB success by draft position study this spring, I used completion percentage, TD/INT ratio, and YPA as my objective markers for success.   Totally objective markers that I had previously found to be correlated to winning (overall yardage or YPG were not, so I did not use them).  Cam Newton did not get flagged as a success by the rather lax criteria I used, because of his low completion percentage. 

 

So I understand that Cam's game, objectively and on its own merits, has aspects that can be critiqued, and again, simplistic to attribute it all to race.

 

 

3 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

 

Oooh, harsh!  Funny though.

 

11 hours ago, NoSaint said:

It’s not all but there’s certainly some.

 

as it turns out, you can see people’s posts on both topics and notice some overlap. It’s not like opinions are top secret here

 

Looks like BringBackOrton did the experiment and couldn't find said overlap. 

You got any data to rebut?