EJ Manuel says benching with Bills sent him into depression

[Chandler#81]

For me, the London Jags game told the whole EJ story. Mechanically sound but nervous instead of gritty. Once he single-handedly threw the game away and had nothing on the line, he played calm and threw very well. ALMOST won the game...

[HOUSE]

2 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...NOT the point of the thread so this asinine post doesn't fit in the discussion........a shocker......SMH............

 

 

Oh geeez, another mod want a be

Edited July 18, 2018 by THE SLAMMER

[Punching Bag]

41 minutes ago, Lfod said:

Making it into the NFL is an accomplishment on it's own. Not everyone makes it that far. At least he got his foot into the door. 

 

The bright side is he still in the NFL unlike Kaepernick and Johnny football who probably are both better than him. 

 

Better at causing issues I would agree.  Backup QBs are not to cause issue except Fitz who is signed despite being bad luck charm for starting QB.

Even starting kickers get kicked off teams when they are too much trouble.

[JPP]

24 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

I still think EJ Manuel is better all round QB than Tyrod Taylor

 

No.....both bad but not even close...

[BuffaloRush]

I never was a fan of EJ as a QB, but he always seemed like a good person.  The fact he was rattled after getting benched, shows his humility.  I wish EJ all the best

[Kirby Jackson]

EJ is a nice guy and a bad football player. There is nothing wrong with that. It’s not his fault that he went in the 1st round. He was a product of a terrible QB draft. A lot of QBs don’t make it. He was just one of those guys. As someone that struggles with depression though I don’t wish that on anyone. It isn’t easy.

[Lfod]

8 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

Better at causing issues I would agree.  Backup QBs are not to cause issue except Fitz who is signed despite being bad luck charm for starting QB.

Even starting kickers get kicked off teams when they are too much trouble.

I was just being goofy about the end of my post. I wouldn't let getting benched wipe away all it took to get to that moment.

[Alaska Darin]

EJ was a bad college QB surrounded by elite talent.  He didn't improve much during his college career, so it was pure folly to believe he would overcome all of the things he was terrible at even if he was put it an ideal NFL situation.

 

He probably should have been a UFA.  I still can't believe the BILLS wasted pi k in the top half of the first round on the guy. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

30 minutes ago, THE SLAMMER said:

 

 

...as I expected......

[Buftex]

37 minutes ago, Another Fan said:

EJ always struck me as a good person/ hard worker, I’m sorry to hear he felt that way.  Having said that I think he had more than enough chances here over the years even if the coaching left something to be desired.

 

His best bet would to play in the CFL if he’s really looking to start again someday

He may never have turned into an elite QB, or even upper echelon...but I think there is a fair argument to be made that he really wasn't given a great chance in Buffalo.  He got 16 starts spread out over 4 years...he started out promising enough, got hurt in week 5 of his rookie season, with a .500 record, and never really had any coach that was committed to letting him grow into the job, after that.  And, lets not lose sight of the fact that it wasn't intended for him to start right out of the chute.  Again, not necessarily blaming Marrone, or Rex, just pointing out that he had a very stunted developmental path with the Bills. I think he needed experience, and repetition.  I think he was a good dude too.  

[Bobby Hooks]

15 hours ago, BUFFALOBART said:

Reality slapping you in the face can be depressing, I guess....

EJ was a coward on the field. Tyrod wasn't.

 

Tyrod may not have seemed cowardly but he simply refused to throw the ball when his reciever wasn’t wide open. 

 

Dont know if cowardly is the right word but he certainly wasnt courageous. 

Edited July 18, 2018 by Bobby Hooks

[HOUSE]

I like the guy but he made the same mistakes over and over. Deep outs were always over thrown. Couldn't make adjustment after reading the defense.

Good guy, I wish him well

Edited July 18, 2018 by THE SLAMMER

[Beast]

I still think it was a five minute stretch in London that doomed him with Bills fans.

 

He wasn’t as horrible as the legend goes but those five minutes may have been the worst for a QB in Bills history.

[HOUSE]

1 hour ago, Binghamton Beast said:

I still think it was a five minute stretch in London that doomed him with Bills fans.

 

He wasn’t as horrible as the legend goes but those five minutes may have been the worst for a QB in Bills history.

 

Every time he took the field I was looking for an improved game. If anything he was getting worse.

[xxxxxxxx]

33 minutes ago, Alaska Darin said:

EJ was a bad college QB surrounded by elite talent.  He didn't improve much during his college career, so it was pure folly to believe he would overcome all of the things he was terrible at even if he was put it an ideal NFL situation.

 

He probably should have been a UFA.  I still can't believe the BILLS wasted pi k in the top half of the first round on the guy. 

In all fairness, all the qbs in that draft sucked, and they traded back before taking him and used that pick on Kiko, so it was pretty much a wash. Waiting too long for Cousins and Wilson was Buddy's big mistake. E.J could still end up being the best q.b from that draft, which says more about the draft than the talent evaluators.

They had to take a Q.B in that draft, and E.J was rumored to go to Philly in the 1st. The problem is that they were too worried about wasting picks and waited too long to take a QB. Guys get pushed up the board when a draft is weak, and that one was historically weak at QB.

Edited July 18, 2018 by MURPHD6

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

1 hour ago, Limeaid said:

Well you and EJ have something in common - your posts send me into depression.

I'm sorry to hear that Limeaide, I'll try to do better. Sending players into depression is one thing but doing it to a fellow Bills fan is uncalled for.

[C.Biscuit97]

32 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

EJ is a nice guy and a bad football player. There is nothing wrong with that. It’s not his fault that he went in the 1st round. He was a product of a terrible QB draft. A lot of QBs don’t make it. He was just one of those guys. As someone that struggles with depression though I don’t wish that on anyone. It isn’t easy.

Didn’t we have a bet about EJ?  It’s funny that this horrible qb beat out former board favorites like Connor Cook and Christian Hackenberg.  

 

1) his OC and qb coach was Nate Hackett, who never coached at the pro level and biggest claim to fame was being the OC for Cuse in the Pinstripe Bowl

 

2) in his first start, he threw 2 tds and left the field with the lead against NE.  How many Bills qbs have done that?

 

3) he got benched for a spineless coward, who “won” games without scoring tds.

 

4) when he was competing for his career inBuffalo, he had like a 155 q.b rating in the preseason.

 

5). When he was the worst qb ever and was going to be out of the nfl, he beat out Connor Cook for a backup job.

 

6) he had a much better college career than Josh Allen.

 

yup, EJ was probsbly overdrafted.  He does play mechanically.  But his development here was a complete joke and if the Bills do the same with Allen, he will suffer the same fate.  But the guy isn’t close to as bad as some of you want to make him out to be and he keeps winning jobs and collecting nfl checks. 

 

 

25 minutes ago, Buftex said:

He may never have turned into an elite QB, or even upper echelon...but I think there is a fair argument to be made that he really wasn't given a great chance in Buffalo.  He got 16 starts spread out over 4 years...he started out promising enough, got hurt in week 5 of his rookie season, with a .500 record, and never really had any coach that was committed to letting him grow into the job, after that.  And, lets not lose sight of the fact that it wasn't intended for him to start right out of the chute.  Again, not necessarily blaming Marrone, or Rex, just pointing out that he had a very stunted developmental path with the Bills. I think he needed experience, and repetition.  I think he was a good dude too.  

Benching a 2nd year qb at 2-2 is almost as bad as benching your starting qb during a playoff race and a rookie throwing 5 ints in a half. Almost.

 

The only franchise worse at developing qbs than the Bills are the Browns.  We are a joke in that regards.

[xxxxxxxx]

5 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Didn’t we have a bet about EJ?  It’s funny that this horrible qb beat out former board favorites like Connor Cook and Christian Hackenberg.  

 

1) his OC and qb coach was Nate Hackett, who never coached at the pro level and biggest claim to fame was being the OC for Cuse in the Pinstripe Bowl

 

2) in his first start, he threw 2 tds and left the field with the lead against NE.  How many Bills qbs have done that?

 

3) he got benched for a spineless coward, who “won” games without scoring tds.

 

4) when he was competing for his career inBuffalo, he had like a 155 q.b rating in the preseason.

 

5). When he was the worst qb ever and was going to be out of the nfl, he beat out Connor Cook for a backup job.

 

6) he had a much better college career than Josh Allen.

 

yup, EJ was probsbly overdrafted.  He does play mechanically.  But his development here was a complete joke and if the Bills do the same with Allen, he will suffer the same fate.  But the guy isn’t close to as bad as some of you want to make him out to be and he keeps winning jobs and collecting nfl checks. 

 

 

Agreed. Whenever an impatient nincompoop says they want to see Allen start right away, I shudder for this very reason. You don't reach for a project and start him immediately just to appease the fan base. It never works.

Getting injured and benched can ruin a young qb fast, from a sports psychology standpoint.

Edited July 18, 2018 by MURPHD6

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, MURPHD6 said:

Agreed. Whenever an impatient nincompoop says they want to see Allen start right away I shudder for this very reason. You don't reach for a project and start him right away. It never works.

Yup.  Allen isn’t ready for this yet.  And if struggles, inpatient fans will want him benched the second he struggles.  

 

Im not a big Allen fan but they guy deserves at least 2 years starting before you bench him.  It’s embarrassing how quickly fans turn on young qbs.

[xxxxxxxx]

9 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Yup.  Allen isn’t ready for this yet.  And if struggles, inpatient fans will want him benched the second he struggles.  

 

Im not a big Allen fan but they guy deserves at least 2 years starting before you bench him.  It’s embarrassing how quickly fans turn on young qbs.

For what they gave up to get him, yeah. Sit him a year, at least. E.J was progressing fine until he got cocky and didn't run out of bounds when an NFL safety was bearing down on him. After that, it was all over. If they sat him a year, before playing him, that might not have happened.

Its pretty critical for a developong QB to progress steadily, and to recieve increased reps, cut his reps and hes done.

Edited July 18, 2018 by MURPHD6

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 hour ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

That’s why the QB picks are a gamble.    You hit big or you roll snake eyes.  (those are bad right?) 

 

 

 

....LOL...reminisce to the day of "Jake the Snake", right??............

[Alaska Darin]

2 minutes ago, MURPHD6 said:

For what they gave up to get him, yeah. Sit him a year, at least. E.J was progressing fine until he got cocky and didn't run out of bounds when an NFL safety was bearing down on him. After that, it was all over. If they sat him a year, before playing him, that might not have happened.

That is simply not true.   EJ doesn't have the fundamental foundation to build on.   He lacks the ability to consistently repeat his delivery, even to this day.   His feet look like Bambi trying to ice skate. 

 

He had zero chance of being a consistent,  productive NFL QB in Buffalo but the probability wouldn't increase much anywhere in NFL.  

[billsintaiwan]

Orton looked like Joe Montana after EJ. He eventually got gun-shy and checked everything down, but there were a few weeks when the Bills had a real qb who saw the field and went through his reads.

 

Then came Tyrod.....

[C.Biscuit97]

2 minutes ago, Alaska Darin said:

That is simply not true.   EJ doesn't have the fundamental foundation to build on.   He lacks the ability to consistently repeat his delivery, even to this day.   His feet look like Bambi trying to ice skate. 

 

He had zero chance of being a consistent,  productive NFL QB in Buffalo but the probability wouldn't increase much anywhere in NFL.  

You may be right but Buffalo gave him absolutely the worst environment to succeed.  If you draft a guy that high, you need to make an investment to them.  Play a Sackless scrub like Orton gets you nowhere.

[Rico]

In this slow time of the off-season before training camp starts, an EJ thread is always appreciated here to pick things up. Thanks, OP!

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, billsintaiwan said:

Orton looked like Joe Montana after EJ. He eventually got gun-shy and checked everything down, but there were a few weeks when the Bills had a real qb who saw the field and went through his reads.

 

Then came Tyrod.....

Yeah, that’s Orton slide against Denver was like the Montana catch throw.  Orton threw 6 tds to 0 ints against the Jets and threw 12 tds and 10 ints against everyone else. (EJ had 5 tds to 3 ints)  And of course the smart Bills hire Rex Ryan the next year. 

[Buffalo86]

8 minutes ago, MURPHD6 said:

Agreed. Whenever an impatient nincompoop says they want to see Allen start right away, I shudder for this very reason. You don't reach for a project and start him immediately just to appease the fan base. It never works.

Getting injured and benched can ruin a young qb fast, from a sports psychology standpoint.

 

IMO- if your QB is going to be psychologically ruined by these things, then he's not your QB.  I think the list of QBs who would've been great, if only they hadn't been ruined by starting too soon, is a pretty short one.

[McBean]

2 hours ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

Watching EJ play on Sunday sent me into depression.

 

Especially his game against the Jaguars in London...

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, McBean said:

 

Especially his game against the Jaguars in London...

Which, despite the worst 5 minutes ever, is a game EJ brings us back to take the lead and the defense let’s Bortles goes 85 yards to win the game.

 

tony Romo threw 5 ints and won a game.

[The Frankish Reich]

I really do feel bad for EJ. There were a few moments where he almost - almost - had me convinced he could be the guy. Remember that drive against the Browns where he was suddenly moving, improvising, playing with some real feel for the game? That drive when he hurt his knee running out of bounds? In retrospect, that was the last time I had any faith in him. He briefly looked like that again when he came in for the Raiders last year, until it all fell apart. 

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

EJ is a nice guy and a bad football player. There is nothing wrong with that. It’s not his fault that he went in the 1st round. He was a product of a terrible QB draft. A lot of QBs don’t make it. He was just one of those guys. As someone that struggles with depression though I don’t wish that on anyone. It isn’t easy.

That qb class was just awful. There was no qb in that draft who merited a first or second round grade. Buddy Nix knew he was leaving the scene in the near future. He didn't want to leave without securing a qb for the franchise. It was a big mistake that lingered and held the franchise back for some time. 

 

Both McDermott and Beane had a smart plan. Both knew that the next draft class was going to have maybe three or four highly rated qb prospects in that draft. So they accumulated picks as currency to position themselves to get one of them in the next class. They were masterful in how they positioned themselves to come out of this draft with a legitimate franchise qb prospect. 

 

In comparison to the checker playing Buddy the McBeane tandem demonstrated that they were good at chess. I'm not trying to dump on Nix who was put in a position that was beyond his capabilities. But in no way could he ever had acted in such a strategic and forward-thinking way as the McBeane duo did in this draft in which resulted in acquiring a high end qb prospect. 

[xxxxxxxx]

22 minutes ago, Alaska Darin said:

That is simply not true.   EJ doesn't have the fundamental foundation to build on.   He lacks the ability to consistently repeat his delivery, even to this day.   His feet look like Bambi trying to ice skate. 

 

He had zero chance of being a consistent,  productive NFL QB in Buffalo but the probability wouldn't increase much anywhere in NFL.  

I think your hindsight is 20/20, and that your ignoring alot of the conversation surrounding him in 2013. He was projected as having all the tools, and there were concerns over whether he had recieved proper coaching. There were some pretty good breakdowns of his strengths and weaknesses posted on this board and how they didn't gel with the play calling. Footwork was an issue at times, and it might still be, but I don't recall any major mechanic issues. The issue seems to be anticipation and touch, especially on short throws. He was better at longer, intermediate throws (especially on 1st down), weaker on short throws on third down, and all Hackett called was run, run, pass, having him repeatedly attempt short tight window throws on third down that he sucked at.

You got to be able to make those throws when your a starter, no doubt about that, but its not like he had excellent coaching either.

Edited July 18, 2018 by MURPHD6

[Buftex]

33 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Benching a 2nd year qb at 2-2 is almost as bad as benching your starting qb during a playoff race and a rookie throwing 5 ints in a half. Almost.

 

The only franchise worse at developing qbs than the Bills are the Browns.  We are a joke in that regards.

You know, I am with you on EJ, and I don't hate Tyrod. However, I may be in the minority here, but I was all for putting Peterman in for that Chargers game.  Now, I think it is very fair to say, Tyrod was given every chace.  He played some of his most uninspired football the previous 3 games or so...so, I thought it was a gutsy, worthy gamble to give Peterman the start.  The problem was, in my opinion is that the coach (and I completely blame McDermott) badly mis-read how ready Peterman was.  Fans had no way of knowing...I trusted to McDermott to know his QB's.  He didn't in this case. So, even though it was ultimately a bad decision, I don't think it was a terrible decision...if thata makes any kind of sense.  In  the end it was as much sending a signal to Tyrod that his play was insufficient, as it was an endorsement of Peterman, the rookie.

 

 

[Alaska Darin]

3 minutes ago, MURPHD6 said:

I think your hindsight is 20/20, and that your ignoring alot of the conversation surrounding him in 2013. He was projected as having all the tools, and there were concerns over whether he had recieved proper coaching. There were some pretty good breakdowns of his strengths and weaknesses posted on this board and how they didn't gel with hackets play calling. Footwork was an issue at times, and it might still be, but I don't recall any major mechanic issues. The issue seems to be anticipation and touch, especially on short throws. He was better at longer, intermediate throws (especially on 1st down), weaker on short throws on third down, and all Hackett called was run, run, pass, having him repeatedly attempt short tight window throws on third down that he sucked at.

Again, not true.  EJ couldn't repeat his throwing motion from down to down, much less over a game.  He had a pretty big hitch in his delivery and a tendency to push the football.  His foot placement led to his constant overthrows, which was a regular occurrence at FSU.

 

He also consistently struggled to hit any moving target and couldn't anticipate open windows, even in college.  

[YoloinOhio]

53 minutes ago, THE SLAMMER said:

 

Every time he took the field I was looking for an improved game. If anything he was getting worse.

He did get worse, because film. 

[C.Biscuit97]

4 minutes ago, Buftex said:

You know, I am with you on EJ, and I don't hate Tyrod. However, I may be in the minority here, but I was all for putting Peterman in for that Chargers game.  Now, I think it is very fair to say, Tyrod was given every chace.  He played some of his most uninspired football the previous 3 games or so...so, I thought it was a gutsy, worthy gamble to give Peterman the start.  The problem was, in my opinion is that the coach (and I completely blame McDermott) badly mis-read how ready Peterman was.  Fans had no way of knowing...I trusted to McDermott to know his QB's.  He didn't in this case. So, even though it was ultimately a bad decision, I don't think it was a terrible decision...if thata makes any kind of sense.  In  the end it was as much sending a signal to Tyrod that his play was insufficient, as it was an endorsement of Peterman, the rookie.

 

 

I mean I was never the world’s biggest fan and obviously it is hindsight.  But he was a 5th round rookie and delivered possibly the worst start in nfl history.  McDermott should say a prayer of thanks to Andy Dalton every night.

[xxxxxxxx]

5 minutes ago, Alaska Darin said:

Again, not true.  EJ couldn't repeat his throwing motion from down to down, much less over a game.  He had a pretty big hitch in his delivery and a tendency to push the football.  His foot placement led to his constant overthrows, which was a regular occurrence at FSU.

 

He also consistently struggled to hit any moving target and couldn't anticipate open windows, even in college.  

Ok, I'm saying 20/20. That was not diagnosed, or well known until after, as far as I know. I'm not saying that isn't true, just that it wasn't viewed as a problem at the time. Just like Allen, he was believed to have fixed some problems by the Senior Bowl.

While I could be wrong, I think your bringing up an issue that the Bills discovered when they finally hired a QB coach, not an issue that was widely known at draft time.

Edited July 18, 2018 by MURPHD6

[C.Biscuit97]

2 minutes ago, MURPHD6 said:

Ok, I'm saying 20/20. That was not diagnosed, or well known until after, as far as I know. I'm not saying that isn't true, just that it wasn't viewed as a problem at the time. Just like Allen, he was believed to have fixed some problems by the Senior Bowl.

Weren’t both Allen and EJ MVPs Of the Senior Bowl?

 

Daboll’s OC resume is less than impressive but it’s at least better than Hackett’s when EJ was drafted.  It’s why I wanted Rosen because I don’t trust the Bills to develop a rawer q.b. We will see.

[xxxxxxxx]

2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Weren’t both Allen and EJ MVPs Of the Senior Bowl?

 

Daboll’s OC resume is less than impressive but it’s at least better than Hackett’s when EJ was drafted.  It’s why I wanted Rosen because I don’t trust the Bills to develop a rawer q.b. We will see.

Me too. So many similarities, and no QB whisperer on the staff.

Nix was on record stating that he knew nothing about QB mechanics, as well.

Edited July 18, 2018 by MURPHD6

[C.Biscuit97]

17 minutes ago, JohnC said:

That qb class was just awful. There was no qb in that draft who merited a first or second round grade. Buddy Nix knew he was leaving the scene in the near future. He didn't want to leave without securing a qb for the franchise. It was a big mistake that lingered and held the franchise back for some time. 

 

Both McDermott and Beane had a smart plan. Both knew that the next draft class was going to have maybe three or four highly rated qb prospects in that draft. So they accumulated picks as currency to position themselves to get one of them in the next class. They were masterful in how they positioned themselves to come out of this draft with a legitimate franchise qb prospect. 

 

In comparison to the checker playing Buddy the McBeane tandem demonstrated that they were good at chess. I'm not trying to dump on Nix who was put in a position that was beyond his capabilities. But in no way could he ever had acted in such a strategic and forward-thinking way as the McBeane duo did in this draft in which resulted in acquiring a high end qb prospect. 

EJ was going in the 2nd at the latest (Chip Kelly was a big fan).  

 

Its ironic you bash Nix/ Whaley for EJ when they traded down, picked up a 2nd that turned into Kiko (runner up DROY and then traded for the very Shady McCoy).  But clearly, the guy who threw for under 2,000 and 58% in the MWC is clearly superior to the 70% passer in the ACC.

 

i think with guys like EJ and Allen (who is a mid round project who got bumped up as well) their development is going to make or break them.