Sad day. Tim Graham out at Buffalo News

[EasternOHBillsFan]

4 hours ago, stony said:

With what writers?

 

They gutted their sports department, which seems to have directly led to their best remaining writer deciding to move elsewhere.  

 

So where did these "best remaining writers" come from, the pumpkin patch? Harry Potter's wand?

 

There is nothing wrong with new blood. The BN needed it badly, and now they will have it.

[Beast]

9 hours ago, BillsEnthusiast said:

 

This right here. Had the pleasure of taking a sportswriting class taught by him (check out the podcast), and he was one of the best teachers I ever had. Master of writing. 

 

There are no “Masters of Writing”at the BN.

 

None.

[Roundybout]

1 minute ago, Binghamton Beast said:

 

There are no “Masters of Writing”at the BN.

 

None.

 

We will agree to disagree. I thought his piece on OJ was terrific.

 

Sean Kirst is great too.

10 minutes ago, SDS said:

 

No.

 

It is clear that Tim left the news by choice. 

 

Pretty sure there is waaaaaaaaay more going on behind the scenes.

Edited June 14, 2018 by BillsEnthusiast

[Putin]

9 hours ago, May Day 10 said:

this is what we all wanted, right?

 

No local sports reporting?

Well we still got Mike and the Bulldog ?

[stony]

28 minutes ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

So where did these "best remaining writers" come from, the pumpkin patch? Harry Potter's wand?

 

There is nothing wrong with new blood. The BN needed it badly, and now they will have it.

I have no clue what you're inferring.  

 

I said "writer," meaning Tim Graham (singular) effectively decided to leave the BN for a new opportunity.  I have no wand, but an educated guess might presume it was because he saw three long-time colleagues resign/take buyouts.  Hopefully the BN gets it right, some have inferred they'll hire a few new writers.  I have no clue.  

 

 

[4merper4mer]

1 hour ago, Kelly the Dog said:

It's like that Carly Simon song, "You're So Vain," I bet you think this thread is about you.

 

Sorry, Hap. Outta my hands.

Vain?  He's not a metal rooster on a farmhouse.  It's vein dude.

[bbb]

6 hours ago, stony said:

With what writers?

 

They gutted their sports department, which seems to have directly led to their best remaining writer deciding to move elsewhere.  

 

Mark Gaughan is their best writer and has been for many years.

 

John Vogl is the only one who left that wasn't a punk either in print or online.  Maybe it is all about voices who were bad for business - as Sully said himself. 

[stony]

3 minutes ago, bbb said:

 

Mark Gaughan is their best writer and has been for many years.

 

John Vogl is the only one who left that wasn't a punk either in print or online.  Maybe it is all about voices who were bad for business - as Sully said himself. 

Gaughan stepped back from the beat by his own accord.  If he chooses to come back into the fold, the better for us all. 

 

TG was the BN's best writer IMO.  Its a big loss for me. 

 

Vogl wrote a really solid gamer, which to me is lost art these days.  

[folz]

52 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Vain?  He's not a metal rooster on a farmhouse.  It's vein dude.

 

"Vain" is correct. "You're so vain"

 

"Vane" is the correct spelling for a "weathervane"

 

"Vein" is used for the vessels that carry the blood around our bodies, or a mineral deposit in a rock (like a vein of gold)

 

 

[bbb]

29 minutes ago, stony said:

Gaughan stepped back from the beat by his own accord.  If he chooses to come back into the fold, the better for us all. 

 

TG was the BN's best writer IMO.  Its a big loss for me. 

 

Vogl wrote a really solid gamer, which to me is lost art these days.  

 

I do agree that Graham was a good writer.  But, like so many have said, I find it hard to separate his writing from his twitter persona.

 

Mark Gaughan has been writing a lot of the Bills articles lately.  I get the actual paper.  Sometimes I start reading an article and not look who wrote it.............And, then a lot of times I'm like this has some good insights, it must be Mark Gaughan, and I turn the page back, and it almost always is him..............He was doing college sports for a few years, but they put him back on the Bills this past year. 

[KD in CA]

8 minutes ago, bbb said:

 

I do agree that Graham was a good writer.  But, like so many have said, I find it hard to separate his writing from his twitter persona.

I would think not.

 

As a writer, didn’t he use Twitter as a platform the same way he used the newspaper, as a forum to express his views on topics (sports) he was being paid to cover?

 

As such, I don’t understand the argument that one is supposed to ‘separate’ them.  It sounds like a weak excuse for his boorish behavior that apparently cost him his job.

 

Very few jobs out there are willing to overlook you being an outright a-hole because you’re good at your job.

 

 

Edited June 14, 2018 by KD in CA

[JoPar_v2]

8 minutes ago, bbb said:

 

I do agree that Graham was a good writer.  But, like so many have said, I find it hard to separate his writing from his twitter persona.

 

Mark Gaughan has been writing a lot of the Bills articles lately.  I get the actual paper.  Sometimes I start reading an article and not look who wrote it.............And, then a lot of times I'm like this has some good insights, it must be Mark Gaughan, and I turn the page back, and it almost always is him..............He was doing college sports for a few years, but they put him back on the Bills this past year. 

His twitter “persona” was a plus for me. He gave trolls on twitter exactly what they deserved - they don’t deserve to be reasoned with he was crass sure and shut them down best he could. Made me want to read his actual work even more.

[bbb]

5 minutes ago, JoPar_v2 said:

His twitter “persona” was a plus for me. He gave trolls on twitter exactly what they deserved - they don’t deserve to be reasoned with he was crass sure and shut them down best he could. Made me want to read his actual work even more.

 

He was the troll

[Kelly the Dog]

16 minutes ago, bbb said:

 

He was the troll

Give me examples of when he just started it and went after someone. I saw dozens and dozens of times when someone would tweet to him or respond to him, and then and only then did he go off on them. Personally, I found it funny. But I am snarky myself and I understand why people don't always like it or get it. But he was not the troll. He responded to trolls. One can argue he went too far or had thin skin. He never started it as far as I have seen or know.

[bbb]

16 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Give me examples of when he just started it and went after someone. I saw dozens and dozens of times when someone would tweet to him or respond to him, and then and only then did he go off on them. Personally, I found it funny. But I am snarky myself and I understand why people don't always like it or get it. But he was not the troll. He responded to trolls. One can argue he went too far or had thin skin. He never started it as far as I have seen or know.

 

I'm not going looking for examples.

 

I do remember the first time I came across his BS.  It was during the 2012 Republican convention - and this was before most everybody decided they had to let everybody know their political opinions.  He said some mocking thing, which really didn't bother me.............But, then when he got some flack, he starts going off and then tweeting "you don't know the first thing about my politics and it's none of your business"  What - you just told us the first thing and made it our business...............Then his pushbacks were "I bet your 50 followers will like that"....................Yeah, you have thousands because you're such a popular guy and not because people are looking for Bills and other sports news.  He still uses that line, and it is SO stupid.

[JoPar_v2]

10 minutes ago, bbb said:

 

I'm not going looking for examples.

 

I do remember the first time I came across his BS.  It was during the 2012 Republican convention - and this was before most everybody decided they had to let everybody know their political opinions.  He said some mocking thing, which really didn't bother me.............But, then when he got some flack, he starts going off and then tweeting "you don't know the first thing about my politics and it's none of your business"  What - you just told us the first thing and made it our business...............Then his pushbacks were "I bet your 50 followers will like that"....................Yeah, you have thousands because you're such a popular guy and not because people are looking for Bills and other sports news.  He still uses that line, and it is SO stupid.

Very telling. So do you really dislike his behavior on twitter or do you dislike his political leanings?

[Kelly the Dog]

15 minutes ago, bbb said:

 

I'm not going looking for examples.

 

I do remember the first time I came across his BS.  It was during the 2012 Republican convention - and this was before most everybody decided they had to let everybody know their political opinions.  He said some mocking thing, which really didn't bother me.............But, then when he got some flack, he starts going off and then tweeting "you don't know the first thing about my politics and it's none of your business"  What - you just told us the first thing and made it our business...............Then his pushbacks were "I bet your 50 followers will like that"....................Yeah, you have thousands because you're such a popular guy and not because people are looking for Bills and other sports news.  He still uses that line, and it is SO stupid.

So, in other words, exactly what I said.

[folz]

Look, I understand that some people know Tim personally, are colleagues, or just enjoy his writing. But you also have to understand that a lot of people do not have positive feelings towards him because of how he handled himself on this board and because of tweets like the Vic/Bennett tweet (which just wasn't a very nice thing to do, regardless of it was partially true or whatever). And I'm not sure how this turned into a thread about sportswriters in general or how hard or easy a job it is (writing isn't as easy as people think, especially when you have tight deadlines and continually have to come up with new stories or unique angles on news events). But Tim gets this type of reaction because of his own actions. I don't know him personally, but from what I have seen from afar, I don't think I would want to. He may be a great guy and a good friend to those in his life, but he does not come across that way via social media. Now, I don't wish the guy any ill will and I wouldn't refuse to read an article of his if it seemed interesting, but I do understand why people don't like him (based on his public persona). He might be better off (if he cares about how he is perceived by the public) if he just let his sports writing speak for itself.

 

And to Kelly, it doesn't really matter who started it...but how you handle it. He could choose to ignore, he could just respond with facts that back his opinion up, he could call the person out for their behavior without reducing himself to the same behavior, etc. But Tim's default seems to be to get very unpleasant.

[Kelly the Dog]

3 minutes ago, folz said:

Look, I understand that some people know Tim personally, are colleagues, or just enjoy his writing. But you also have to understand that a lot of people do not have positive feelings towards him because of how he handled himself on this board and because of tweets like the Vic/Bennett tweet (which just wasn't a very nice thing to do, regardless of it was partially true or whatever). And I'm not sure how this turned into a thread about sportswriters in general or how hard or easy a job it is (writing isn't as easy as people think, especially when you have tight deadlines and continually have to come up with new stories or unique angles on news events). But Tim gets this type of reaction because of his own actions. I don't know him personally, but from what I have seen from afar, I don't think I would want to. He may be a great guy and a good friend to those in his life, but he does not come across that way via social media. Now, I don't wish the guy any ill will and I wouldn't refuse to read an article of his if it seemed interesting, but I do understand why people don't like him (based on his public persona). He might be better off (if he cares about how he is perceived by the public) if he just let his sports writing speak for itself.

 

And to Kelly, it doesn't really matter who started it...but how you handle it. He could choose to ignore, he could just respond with facts that back his opinion up, he could call the person out for their behavior without reducing himself to the same behavior, etc. But Tim's default seems to be to get very unpleasant.

I was responding to another poster who stated that TG was the troll, which by definition is the one starting the discourse. And I responded that he was just responding to people who picked a fight with him, or criticized him, and then he went too far in his reaction. I said in this thread that he is thin-skinned and snarky several times already. I just wish people would separate tweets from sportswriting. I guess it's too hard for a lot of people and that's a sign of the times.

[bbb]

45 minutes ago, JoPar_v2 said:

Very telling. So do you really dislike his behavior on twitter or do you dislike his political leanings?

 

Both.  But, I guess you didn't catch the part where he said we have no idea what his political leanings are.  There was the part that got me.

 

41 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

So, in other words, exactly what I said.

 

What?!?

[Kelly the Dog]

1 minute ago, bbb said:

 

Both.  But, I guess you didn't catch the part where he said we have no idea what his political leanings are.  There was the part that got me.

 

 

What?!?

I said he is not the troll, people criticize him personally with tweets and then he jumps all over them, usually going too far. And then you gave an example of people criticizing him personally and he jumped all over them, going too far. The fact he gave his political feelings about a party convention is a generic thing. It's something we all do. It's not personal. It's not trolling.

 

If I say I can't stand the Democratic Convention and those politicians are all liars, and you come back and tweet to me, kelly the dog, you are such a whiny loser, who is the troll?

[oldmanfan]

A guy quit a job.  Nine pages for that?

[bbb]

6 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

I said he is not the troll, people criticize him personally with tweets and then he jumps all over them, usually going too far. And then you gave an example of people criticizing him personally and he jumped all over them, going too far. The fact he gave his political feelings about a party convention is a generic thing. It's something we all do. It's not personal. It's not trolling.

 

If I say I can't stand the Democratic Convention and those politicians are all liars, and you come back and tweet to me, kelly the dog, you are such a whiny loser, who is the troll?

 

BS.  He tweeted out something that's going to piss a lot of people off and then couldn't take the heat, and started lashing out.

 

And, to answer your second paragraph, you are the troll.  I don't even remember people calling him things like whiny loser.  I remember people asking for more explanation, and then he melted down. 

 

And, it was not the norm anyway in 2012 like it is today - to post crap about one side of the political spectrum.

[Kelly the Dog]

2 minutes ago, bbb said:

 

BS.  He tweeted out something that's going to piss a lot of people off and then couldn't take the heat, and started lashing out.

 

And, to answer your second paragraph, you are the troll.  I don't even remember people calling him things like whiny loser.  I remember people asking for more explanation, and then he melted down. 

 

And, it was not the norm anyway in 2012 like it is today - to post crap about one side of the political spectrum.

Right. In your example, you said "he got some flack." Yeah, I'm sure it was your next remembrance of it, "people asking for more explanation" - and then "he melted down."

 

That sounds like something that happened. Jesus. Look, I know he melts down. I never said that was okay. I have said a dozen times he has thin skin. But please don't say he said something about a political convention, "people asking for more explanation," and then "he melted down." That's embarrassing.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

So is the paper going belly up?

 

 

[Thurman#1]

14 hours ago, BillsEnthusiast said:

 

This right here. Had the pleasure of taking a sportswriting class taught by him (check out the podcast), and he was one of the best teachers I ever had. Master of writing. 

 

 

Yup, he's a terrific writer. The awards he's won aren't by mistake.

 

Wonder what the story is.

[Thurman#1]

4 hours ago, JoPar_v2 said:

His twitter “persona” was a plus for me. He gave trolls on twitter exactly what they deserved - they don’t deserve to be reasoned with he was crass sure and shut them down best he could. Made me want to read his actual work even more.

 

 

Yup. He was extremely snarky but really smart about it. Crass on SNS? Yeah, at times. Fair enough.

 

I can see people being irritated by it but that's the way SNS tends to go. I'm with you, though. I rarely spend time on twitter for any reason but on the very unusual sporadic times I checked in he generally made me laugh and had a good point or two to consider, I thought.

 

Good luck to Tim. I have been a long-time BN Blitz subscriber. I'll stick with them for now, but I've never doubted the worth of their coverage and now I'll have my eye on how well they're doing.

Edited June 14, 2018 by Thurman#1

[4merper4mer]

4 hours ago, folz said:

 

"Vain" is correct. "You're so vain"

 

"Vane" is the correct spelling for a "weathervane"

 

"Vein" is used for the vessels that carry the blood around our bodies, or a mineral deposit in a rock (like a vein of gold)

 

 

The use of vein that means arrogant is taken from the use that is a mineral deposit, particularly gold.  You're so vein was originally a joke about Paul Hornung who called himself the Golden Boy and opponents did not like that.

[oldmanfan]

2 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

So is the paper going belly up?

 

 

Quite possibly.  Happening all over the country

[ALF]

What a shock for such a major turn over. The printed media is getting outdated by online . It's like what outsourcing did to manufacturing jobs.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

17 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

No it's not. It's easy. Do you watch a movie and consider an actor's political views as to whether you like the performance or not? 

 

Is that a rhetorical question? I haven't watched a Sean Penn movie since the 80s.

 

[plenzmd1]

43 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

Is that a rhetorical question? I haven't watched a Sean Penn movie since the 80s.

 

so you got in his best movie ..Bad Boys??

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, plenzmd1 said:

so you got in his best movie ..Bad Boys??

 

Colors I think was the last one.

 

[stony]

7 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Give me examples of when he just started it and went after someone. I saw dozens and dozens of times when someone would tweet to him or respond to him, and then and only then did he go off on them. Personally, I found it funny. But I am snarky myself and I understand why people don't always like it or get it. But he was not the troll. He responded to trolls. One can argue he went too far or had thin skin. He never started it as far as I have seen or know.

I had really good seats for the NCAAs back in 2014 in Buffalo.  Lo and behold, TG was 10 feet in front of me on press row.  I fired off a what I thought was a real solid insult to him (it wasn't) and he laid into me pretty good.  I learned a valuable lesson that day...Don't f**k with Twitter.  

[Gordio]

Anybody check on Lori?  She must be devastated. 

[BeginnersMind]

20 minutes ago, stony said:

I had really good seats for the NCAAs back in 2014 in Buffalo.  Lo and behold, TG was 10 feet in front of me on press row.  I fired off a what I thought was a real solid insult to him (it wasn't) and he laid into me pretty good.  I learned a valuable lesson that day...Don't f**k with Twitter.  

 

He’s a person. Be nice. 

1 hour ago, ALF said:

What a shock for such a major turn over. The printed media is getting outdated by online . It's like what outsourcing did to manufacturing jobs.

 

Except for readers conflating clickbait with quality. Make any topic into a “Top 5” list and it would get more views than Woodward and Bernstein breaking Watergate. 

[Like A Mofo]

19 hours ago, Keukasmallies said:

Why is it that sports writers' opinions are vilified, yet the opinions of TBD posters are glorified?

 

 

Because deep down inside, so many want to be where Tim Graham was: paid to talk and write sports and most cannot admit the jealousy.

 

Am I jealous of a talk show host or a really good sportswriter for the job they get to do?

 

You are damn right I am!

[BeginnersMind]

19 hours ago, Keukasmallies said:

Why is it that sports writers' opinions are vilified, yet the opinions of TBD posters are glorified?

 

With the exception of self glorification, I’ve not seen many express a lot of awe for other’s opinions here. We are mostly just shouting into the penguin hoard. 

[K-9]

20 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

No it's not. It's easy. Do you watch a movie and consider an actor's political views as to whether you like the performance or not? 

You would think so, but there are people on the right who won't watch a Penn, Deniro, or Streep movie just as there are those on the left who won't watch a James Woods, Dennis Miller, or Mel Gibson movie STRICTLY because of their political views. Short sighted and stupid? Yes. But people conflate actors and their roles all the time. Sad but true. 

[blacklabel]

Great writer. Who's left at TBN now, Skurski? I wouldn't be surprised that the only reason Skurski hasn't moved on is because his wife has the morning anchor gig over on Channel 2.

 

Tim was another writer I reached out to when I was gathering info/feedback about starting a Bills-related blog. He responded and said he'd be more than happy to share some advice. I never got back to him because I bailed on the blog idea, but it was nice of him to take a minute to reply to me. And I've heard a lot of great things about the classes he taught. Talented guy. 

 

His Twitter behavior is almost all tongue-in-cheek. It was a little irritating at times as he seemed to engage with the trolls and lame-asses more than talking with any fans who had good questions/points. But whatever. I'm sure he'll land somewhere decent. 

 

I know guys like Sully and Bucky are more old-school so I wouldn't be surprised if they found another paper to write for. Tim, though, I think he probably follows after Tyler Dunne and ends up with an online outlet. That's just the way things are going.

 

Whoever TBN has in the pipeline to replace these guys are gonna get eaten alive by some of these fans lol.