National Anthem Solution

[That_Guy]

1 minute ago, Fadingpain said:

I have never seen any evidence to suggest the kneeling lowered TV ratings or at-game attendance.

 

I consider it a myth until proven otherwise.

 

Do plenty of racists in this country hate the protests?  Absolutely.  Do they get annoyed by them?  Absolutely.

 

Does it mean they have turned off NFL football?  No.  

 

They're mostly blowhard types to begin with and they don't seem to be principled enough to boycott games based on their beliefs.

 

They're still watching.

 

This whole controversy was fading into oblivion until the NFL put it right back on everyone's radar with the new rule, being the geniuses that they are.

 

 

 

 

 

i seriously doubt the kneeling had much of an affect on ratings as well.  But i know my parents boycotted the season because of it (they're old and easily manipulated by the news) so i'm sure others did as well.

 

11 minutes ago, bobobonators said:

 

Sounds like something North Korea would do 

North Korea also forces people to salute the flag and pledge allegiance to it and the country.  sounds familiar . . .

[Blokestradamus]

Genuine question - is the 'and the home of the Chiefs' ending to the anthem at Arrowhead disrespectful?

 

If so; more or less so than silently kneeling?

[CountDorkula]

but hey its about Patriotism right?

 

https://thinkprogress.org/nfl-dod-national-anthem-6f682cebc7cd/

 

As recently as 2015, the Department of Defense was doling out millions to the NFL for such things as military flyovers, flag unfurlings, emotional color guard ceremonies, enlistment campaigns, and — interestingly enough — national anthem performances. Additionally, according to Vice, the NFL’s policy on players standing for the national anthem also changed in 2009, with athletes “encouraged”thereafter to participate. Prior to that, teams were not given any specific instructions on the matter; some chose to remain in the locker room until after opening ceremonies were completed. (It’s unclear whether the policy change was implemented as a direct result of any Defense Department contracts.)

In 2015, Arizona Sens. Jeff Flake (R) and John McCain (R) revealed in a joint oversight report that nearly $5.4 million in taxpayer dollars had been paid out to 14 NFL teams between 2011 and 2014 to honor service members and put on elaborate, “patriotic salutes” to the military. Overall, they reported, “these displays of paid patriotism [were] included within the $6.8 million that the Department of Defense (DOD) [had] spent on sports marketing contracts since fiscal year 2012.”

Among the more wasteful expenditures were a payment to the Atlanta Falcons to have a National Guard member sing the national anthem and a payment to the Minnesota Vikings for the “‘opportunity’ to sponsor its military appreciation night.”

[boyst]

4 minutes ago, mannc said:

The players are union members, so they actually do have rights under the collective bargaining agreement, one of which may be to peacefully protest in a way that has no effect on the on-field product.  It’s not “my way or the highway” for the NFL.

Under thar cba they have rights but this isn't one of them. It's gray area and the NFL is wise not to challenge it. It'd be a PR nightmare and the owners have no balls because they just want to make.money. And as long as they make money they don't care one bit, but they hurt last year and now sick of it.

 

But, under the CBA they don't have the ability to protest if the NFL stopped them. The CBA hasn't changed yet the NFL just slapped them silly, so they have no protection. This isn't your common employee/employer relationship. It's contract. 

[BringBackOrton]

18 minutes ago, macaroni said:

 

And exactly what problem DID they solve???

They solved the problem of people kneeling during the anthem.

 

9 minutes ago, Augie said:

Stand, or else the TEAM gets fined. That solves nothing. The player/instigator has no skin in the game. 

Not every team will eat fines for their players.  The teams can fine their players.

[MAJBobby]

1 hour ago, machine gun kelly said:

If teams have a few players staying in the locker room it still will be a distraction.  Brady Quinn the other day mentioned on NFLR that prior to 911 the players were never out for. The anthem.  The real solution is eliminate the problem completely and league wide they stay in the locker. Room for last minute prep and no more stupid kneeling stuff.  

 

A consession on top of the $90 million pledged for racial injustice is just usepenalty money and earmark more for the cause.  This should help ease tensions with players.

 

im all for them having walks and other endeavors to raise awareness and funds so bad things don’t happen and I believe even from my family who are police there has been extra sensitivity training so all people are treated equitably which should happen.  If you’re a criminal it shouldn’t matter you’re. Ethnicity or race.  I hate there are a few bad apples but do believe most police officers are good people who deserve our respect for. What they risk for us to keep us safe.

 

feel free to give you’re opinion, but know it sickens me for anyone who doesn’t show respect for this country and stand for the anthem.

 

Do you get beer during anthem?  Are you walking during the Anthem?  Do you BBQ and Drink on Memorial Day?? 

 

Want a Solution for the Anthem thing. STOP PLAYING IT. 

 

Ooooo and NFL give back the money you get from the DOD 

Edited May 25, 2018 by MAJBobby

[BringBackOrton]

2 minutes ago, Blokestradamus said:

Genuine question - is the 'and the home of the Chiefs' ending to the anthem at Arrowhead disrespectful?

 

If so; more or less so than silently kneeling?

You're asking the wrong people.  Our opinions are irrelevant. The owners' opinions are the ones that matter.

Edited May 25, 2018 by BringBackOrton

[JohnC]

15 minutes ago, Blokestradamus said:

 

I gave Amal a 2nd round grade. Meghan got a 1st.

 

Couldn't go upstaging the bride.

I hope you didn't ask any of your subjects to do squats? That's a good way to get your puckish face slapped and escorted out by big beefy men. ?

[Blokestradamus]

1 minute ago, BringBackOrton said:

You're asking the wrong people.  Our opinions are irrelevant. The owners' opinions are the ones that matter.

 

Well, the owners keep banning me from attending their meetings so you lot will have to do as a sounding board

[Augie]

1 minute ago, BringBackOrton said:

They solved the problem of people kneeling during the anthem.

 

Not every team will eat fines for their players.  The teams can fine their players.

 

But CAN they? If the CBA or player contract does not allow for those fines for this offense, the employee is in charge. That’s not a situation I ever like, but it could be the case here. 

[MAJBobby]

2 hours ago, Jeetz1231 said:

I know I am probably in the minority, but I am a veteran of the US military and I don't personally feel like the kneeling is disrespectful to the flag or my brothers and sisters who served and are still serving. If anything it shows the freedoms we have in this country as individuals. The protest is for racial injustice when dealing with police, they are using their right to peaceful protest. I personally would prefer that they stood for the anthem, but at the end of the day we live in a country that gives them the right to kneel for the anthem, and that is what makes this country great.

 

Nope not in the Minority. 19 year Active Soldier here and me and my Brothers and Sisters have taked about this. 

 

No disrespect. What is disrespectful is people that have never served telling people how kneeling ng during the Anthem is disrespectful to the military 

 

want more real disrespect is how we are used as pawns in these weak political fights.  “You stand or you hate the military”

Edited May 25, 2018 by MAJBobby

[BringBackOrton]

1 minute ago, Augie said:

 

But CAN they? If the CBA or player contract does not allow for those fines for this offense, the employee is in charge. That’s not a situation I ever like, but it could be the case here. 

I believe the CBA will allow these fines.

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Nope not in the Minority. 19 year Active Soldier here and me and my Brothers and Sisters have taked about this. 

 

No disrespect. What is disrespectful is people that have never served telling people how kneeing during the Anthem is disrespectful to the military 

You're one person.  How could you say this?

[The Process]

After reading the comments from Vets, it's obvious that the right to kneel is important. That's what they fought for.

 

Here's an idea to fix the entire problem.

 

The Players Coalition makes a public statement which would be all over the news ans social media.

"We as players in this great country are proud of our vets and the freedom they fought for, even the freedom to kneel. We do however think there is social injustice in areas of our country. When you see a player kneeling, please know that player intends to be active in the communities he loves, teaching our youth how to respond appropriately when they encounter law enforcement. Kneeling players desire to let fans know that THEY are the ones taking action in communities through education and financial support. Again, we appreciate our freedom to kneel and freedom to educate and support where we see fit. We intend to address any player who kneels and tries to take credit for his good works without doing said good works. In summary, kneeling during the National Anthem means two things as defined in our Mission Statement. 

 

1) We kneel with no disrespectful gestures as we listen to the Anthem thankful for this country and it's freedoms.

2) We who kneel are letting fans know WE care and WE are in the communities proving it.

 

 

 

[Augie]

3 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

You're asking the wrong people.  Our opinions are irrelevant. The owners' opinions are the ones that matter.

 

The owners opinions may not matter either in the big picture. Nor the players. It could come down to a judge interpreting what is in writing in the CBA or other agreement(s). 

[Tuco]

14 minutes ago, Jeetz1231 said:

I know I am probably in the minority, but I am a veteran of the US military and I don't personally feel like the kneeling is disrespectful to the flag or my brothers and sisters who served and are still serving. If anything it shows the freedoms we have in this country as individuals. The protest is for racial injustice when dealing with police, they are using their right to peaceful protest. I personally would prefer that they stood for the anthem, but at the end of the day we live in a country that gives them the right to kneel for the anthem, and that is what makes this country great.

 

Personally, I can agree with this. But the problem really isn't the injustice they're protesting - although that's what everybody makes it out to be (not that it isn't a problem, just that it's really not the NFL issue at its root). The problem is they are protesting while wearig their company's uniform. Nobody has the right to do that if the company doesn't allow it. Now the fact that their cause is just (in most people's eyes) clouds the issue for many people. When you talk about their right to peaceful protest, yes, we all have that right here in America. But think back to last year when numerous players joined into protesting the week after the president pissed everybody off. There were players saying they were  kneeling for Puerto Rico and all sorts of other causes. Still just causes for the most part, but allowing it just because they have the right opens the door to a myriad of problems.

 

For starters, what happens when a handful of players decide they want to exercise their right to protest abortion and start holding up pictures of dead fetuses during the anthem? Or maybe a player pulls a cross out of his jock and burns it during the anthem. The same exact "right" to peaceful protest exists for them as it does for the current racial injustice protesters, just as it would for any protest that falls between those extremes, yet no team would allow it.  So where does the league draw the line? Can any player protest anything just because they have the right? Remember, they're on the clock wearing their company's uniform. Does every player have to get permission from the commish to have his cause approved? Does the commish have to publish a list of acceptable protests and non-accpetible protest causes?

 

As others have said, Brady Quinn is full of ****. Maybe it wasn't an NFL rule but teams had their players standing for the anthem long before 911 and long before Colin keapernick was born. And it wasn't "forced patriotism." It was a team rule just like all the rest of them. They weren't forcing players to stand for or against injustice and inequality. It was no more or less a team rule than being in your hotel room by 10:00 on game night. Or making players sign autographs at camp. Or wearing a suit and tie while traveling to road games.

 

The league screwed up by not nipping it in the bud. By remaining silent they allowed the issue to grow. Instead of that they should have done what any other company would have done. They should have issued a reminder that while in the employ of their teams and representing their teams in uniform, players are not allowed to partake in protests of any kind, social or political. Instead they remained silent and allowed it to grow into  a singularly didiving issue that now has people ignoring the fact that protests of any kind shouldn't be allowed while on company time. $.02

 

 

 

 

[MAJBobby]

3 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

I believe the CBA will allow these fines.

You're one person.  How could you say this?

 

Easy you serve?  If not tell me again how I dont talk with other Service Members or Vets EVERY FREAKING DAY. And that is ALOT of us. But again keep telling people how it is disrespect to us for Kneeling lol

Edited May 25, 2018 by MAJBobby

[Augie]

1 minute ago, BringBackOrton said:

I believe the CBA will allow these fines.

 

THAT is the bottom line. I’d fine them to the max if allowed. Hey, you’re at WORK. I’m all for the cause, but do it on your own time. 

[macaroni]

6 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

They solved the problem of people kneeling during the anthem.

 

Not every team will eat fines for their players.  The teams can fine their players.

 

Ya see BBO ... that's where you and I differ ... I see it as an attempt to stifle the message, not solve the problem.

[BillsVet]

It's amazing what happens when the cameras are removed. 

 

I applaud the NFL's solution because it still allows players who won't stand to protest outside of camera range where it's made into a spectacle.

 

The NFL, whether they want to admit it or not, is taking a hit financially and has acted.  TV ratings are down, largely because fans don't want to watch social justice causes front and center at game time.  People just want to watch football and not be inundated with politics. 

 

And, given that TV ratings are down, advertisers aren't going to pay for commercial time, which means the networks aren't going to pay more for the TV contracts at the next contract negotiations. Which means the NFL may take a loss in revenue...which cannot happen in business. 

 

The players don't care about that...until it's CBA time again.  What happens when the league talks about lowered TV revenue influencing the next CBA?  I'm sure De Smith would argue, but it could be reality if the social justice stuff continues.   

 

The NFL is walking a fine line here trying to appease as many groups as possible.  Unfortunately, they're losing more of their base fans than they'd like and now have to backtrack.

 

PS. I'm a combat veteran. And if they want to kneel then so be it.  Most of them are making millions playing a sport in the most free country in the world protesting against an issue that statistically isn't.

Edited May 25, 2018 by BillsVet

[Augie]

 

That already got $90 million, give it a rest. 

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

 

Easy you serve?  If not tell me again how I dont talk with other Service Members or Vets EVERY FREAKING DAY

So what?  Your personal life experiences don't dictate what is majority and minority.

Just now, Augie said:

THAT is the bottom line. I’d fine them to the max if allowed. Hey, you’re at WORK. I’m all for the cause, but do it on your own time. 

Exactly!

[oldmanfan]

The NFL is a business.  The owners of the business have the right to set the expectation they have for their work environment.  And they have done so. Do I agree they have the right to do so?  Absolutely.   Do I agree with their decision? No.  They have taken an ant hill and made it into a mountain because they (like too many in our government and society today) are afraid to stand up to a Chief Executive who wants to be a dictator and has no comprehension of the values and rights that made our country what it is today (and who has to be reminded to cover his heart with his hand by his wife who immigrated here, and for whom I have a great deal of respect).  

 

The compromise, as it stands, seems reasonable.  If players want to protest they can do so by staying in the locker room, and they certainly could protest at other times other than during the anthem. Hold rallies before or after games, for example.  Hold community rallies.  get involved.  I see a lot more of that happening.  But you know what's coming now, don't you?  Players will stand and link arms.  Or they will stand and not remove their helmets.  Or something similar.  And then the owners will have to decide if that behavior is OK or not.  And let's remember, they are not protesting the military, they are protesting violence in the black community.  And while there are mixed views on that (for me it would be nice if you did not commit the crime in the first place that causes the police presence) not one football player that I know of has said they disrespect the military.

 

Meanwhile up in the stands, you have drunks not even listening to the anthem.  If they're even in their seats and not out buying another ridiculously overpriced beer.  Just waiting to get to the end of the song so they can start cheering before it's even over.  Most of the time with their hat still on their head.  And who then want to preach to these players what is patriotic and what is not?  Makes me gag with disgust.

 

For me, when I am at a game I stand for the anthem, and I have taught my kids to do the same.  If I have on a hat, I take it off and cover my heart.  Because I have relatives who were in the military, and that died for our country.  And that deserves our respect.  But do I do so at home, or if I'm in a bar?  No.  Does that make me a hypocrite?  Yep.  Just like so many others who preach false patriotism.

 

Do I think kneeling instead of standing is disrespectful?  Absolutely not.  If you kneel before your Lord in prayer, then kneeling in silence during the playing of our anthem should be just fine.  and I have talked to many members of our military who would say exactly the same thing. 

 

Ultimately this controversy will drag on.  The players union will not stand idly by with this.  They perceive it as a First Amendment issue and while I do not (because of the aforementioned rights of employers, and because players have a host of venues to exercise their First Amendment rights) I respect their right to protest this decision, and to make it part of their next CBA negotiation.  You want to get really ticked about something?  get ticked at a supposed Chief executive, the person who is suppose to be upholding the laws of this nation, saying that just because an NFL player may not agree with his thoughts they should leave the country.  Now THAT, my friends, is something we should all be able to stand up and say:  No.  We will not stand for that.  We threw the King out of here over 200 years ago, and we aren't going to tolerate that in our country.  What a football player does for 1.5 minutes right before a football game isn't a spit in the ocean compared to that kind of constitutional abuse.

 

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, macaroni said:

 

Ya see BBO ... that's where you and I differ ... I see it as an attempt to stifle the message, not solve the problem.

The NFL is ill-equipped to solve racial injustice.  Furthermore, that's not why fans tune in.

[Augie]

Just now, macaroni said:

 

Ya see BBO ... that's where you and I differ ... I see it as an attempt to stifle the message, not solve the problem.

 

I don’t think they want to stifle the message. They gave $90 mil to try to spread the message. There’s a time and a place for everything. When you’re at WORK is not the time. 

[Gugny]

1 hour ago, mrags said:

For one, Brady Quinn is wrong. He wasn’t even old enough in 2001 to know what happened prior to 9/11. 

 

Ive been going to games since much before that and I can tell you the players came out and stood there at the anthem. This was back when people were proud of this country. 

 

Now you have a bunch of Whiney babies that care more about their feelings than the rights of others. 

 

Im sure some of you will attack me for this. I don’t care. Put me on ignore if you haven’t already. You are part of the problem anyway 

First of all. Thank you for your service. 

 

Unfortunatey where you are wrong is that the NFL has mandated that if you are out on the field you will stand for the national anthem. It is their rule and their company. And the players are employees of their company. And if they don’t like it, they can sit in the locker room prior to the anthem or look elsewhere for a new job. I heard the Hamilton Tiget Cats are looking for NFL caliber players nowadays. 

 

Speaking of food ... can you please send me the recipe/directions for making fatties?

[US Egg]

There's plenty of opportunities for players who "need to send a message on TV" and not in the face of Veterans & Police officers, especially those on the field.

 

They can go on Ellen, The View, major network morning programs, 60 Minutes, etc. As many millions will hear there concerns.

 

Of course that might be an inconvenience to them to have to go that route to make their case.

Edited May 25, 2018 by Ifartalot

[MAJBobby]

Just now, BringBackOrton said:

So what?  Your personal life experiences don't dictate what is majority and minority.

Exactly!

 

Hey its ok keep up your disrespect to the Military and Fallen with your Drunked up BBQs on Monday and that disrespect up bu telling people how disrespectful this is to the Military even IF the players and the Military say something different. 

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

 

Hey its ok keep up your disrespect to the Military and Fallen with your Drunked up BBQs on Monday and that disrespect up bu telling people how disrespectful this is to the Military even IF the players and the Military say something different. 

Hey Bob, maybe take a couple of deep breaths and avoid this topic for a while.  I can feel your emotions.  

[MAJBobby]

Want to know what is REALLY disrespectful to us Military. Taking MILLIONS NFL Owners from us to put kn display your false Patriotism 

1 minute ago, BringBackOrton said:

Hey Bob, maybe take a couple of deep breaths and avoid this topic for a while.  I can feel your emotions.  

 

Maybe people should stop Using us as their Pawns in some fight. Maybe when that happens i will be a little calmer 

Edited May 25, 2018 by MAJBobby

[BringBackOrton]

2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Want to know what is REALLY disrespectful to us Military. Taking MILLIONS NFL Owners from us to put kn display your false Patriotism 

 

Maybe people should stop Using us as their Pawns in some fight. Maybe when that happens i will be a little calmer 

You're not the only vet with an opinion.

[Peace Frog]

1 hour ago, Jeetz1231 said:

I know I am probably in the minority, but I am a veteran of the US military and I don't personally feel like the kneeling is disrespectful to the flag or my brothers and sisters who served and are still serving. If anything it shows the freedoms we have in this country as individuals. The protest is for racial injustice when dealing with police, they are using their right to peaceful protest. I personally would prefer that they stood for the anthem, but at the end of the day we live in a country that gives them the right to kneel for the anthem, and that is what makes this country great.

Abso-freaking-lutely!  I served in the US Navy and I'm not offended by the kneeling.  It's a form of peaceful protest, which is one of the freedoms we have in this country, last time I checked.  To some, the players can only protest in certain ways at certain times.  Well, I say to them, "This is America, protest away."

[mannc]

15 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

Under thar cba they have rights but this isn't one of them. It's gray area and the NFL is wise not to challenge it. It'd be a PR nightmare and the owners have no balls because they just want to make.money. And as long as they make money they don't care one bit, but they hurt last year and now sick of it.

 

But, under the CBA they don't have the ability to protest if the NFL stopped them. The CBA hasn't changed yet the NFL just slapped them silly, so they have no protection. This isn't your common employee/employer relationship. It's contract. 

As you said, it’s a gray area.  I’m not intimately familiar with the CBA so I’m not sure, but it’s possible that the league can’t mandate something like this and that a player who’s fined (or disciplined) could win a grievance.

[MAJBobby]

2 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

You're not the only vet with an opinion.

 

Maybe read the thread and see what the Vets are saying

[Rico]

My solution is to let them kneel, zoom in on them, and draw clown faces on them with a telestrator. Let’s make it entertaining!

[BringBackOrton]

2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Maybe read the thread and see what the Vets are saying

So, 3 people? 

 

That's not how this works.

[vorpma]

45 minutes ago, Buffalo86 said:

If people were kneeling in protest of America's treatment of its veterans, they'd enjoy near universal support.  But racial inequality?  "Get the hell out of my country!"  

Your wrong, dead wrong, I too am a veteran and have lost close friends and brothers over the years and know first hand the crappy condition of most VA hospitals and would never consider making it an issue by kneeling at a ballgame. Why is it so hard to comprehend they are working and must follow rules and conditions of employment? If I want politics I will not go to a sporting event to get it, stay home and scroll TBD an can find all kinds of nonsense!

 

[MAJBobby]

12 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

It's amazing what happens when the cameras are removed. 

 

I applaud the NFL's solution because it still allows players who won't stand to protest outside of camera range where it's made into a spectacle.

 

The NFL, whether they want to admit it or not, is taking a hit financially and has acted.  TV ratings are down, largely because fans don't want to watch social justice causes front and center at game time.  People just want to watch football and not be inundated with politics. 

 

And, given that TV ratings are down, advertisers aren't going to pay for commercial time, which means the networks aren't going to pay more for the TV contracts at the next contract negotiations. Which means the NFL may take a loss in revenue...which cannot happen in business. 

 

The players don't care about that...until it's CBA time again.  What happens when the league talks about lowered TV revenue influencing the next CBA?  I'm sure De Smith would argue, but it could be reality if the social justice stuff continues.   

 

The NFL is walking a fine line here trying to appease as many groups as possible.  Unfortunately, they're losing more of their base fans than they'd like and now have to backtrack.

 

PS. I'm a combat veteran. And if they want to kneel then so be it.  Most of them are making millions playing a sport in the most free country in the world protesting against an issue that statistically isn't.

 

Yet ratings down all across TV and the NFLs where actually up this year so you might want to rethink why ratings where “down”

[Green Lightning]

2 hours ago, Jeetz1231 said:

I know I am probably in the minority, but I am a veteran of the US military and I don't personally feel like the kneeling is disrespectful to the flag or my brothers and sisters who served and are still serving. If anything it shows the freedoms we have in this country as individuals. The protest is for racial injustice when dealing with police, they are using their right to peaceful protest. I personally would prefer that they stood for the anthem, but at the end of the day we live in a country that gives them the right to kneel for the anthem, and that is what makes this country great.

If they didn't televise it interest would die quickly. Personally I don't care what millionaire players or celebrities think. You want to kneel, fine. They have that right, and we have a right to protest their protest. Be happy you don't live in Iran, Russia or Venezuela. 

[MAJBobby]

3 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

So, 3 people? 

 

That's not how this works.

 

Where do you live?  Guessing Buffalo. So Drive up to Ft Drum, poll the 10th Mountain on if they feel disrespected by the kneeling. And get back to me

[boyst]

2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Yet ratings down all across TV and the NFLs where actually up this year so you might want to rethink why ratings where “down”

Ratings are down. Disguising that with the metrics used hilariously ill contrived.  Approval ratings of the league are tanking, ratings of interest are down. People watch but people don't care.