Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 5 minutes ago, Thurmal34 said: Very nice, but IMO a nice red herring here. Do employers, or do employers not, have the right to define OTJ performance rules? Do the rules, or do the rules not, apply equally to players of all races? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 32 minutes ago, Bruce_Stools said: I wish I could like this twice. People always seem to forget the players are employees and “on the job”. Sure but this is unhelpful to the discussion. Imagine if in every thread about the Bills' decisions you came in and said "the Bills can do what they want, and that's that. We are spectators and have no say." This wouldn't be a fun message board if that's what every discussion boiled down to. Likewise we shouldn't restrict this discussion only to what the league CAN do. Everyone agrees the NFL can set whatever anthem policy they want, where we disagree is what that policy SHOULD be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Just now, HappyDays said: Sure but this is unhelpful to the discussion. Imagine if in every thread about the Bills' decisions you came in and said "the Bills can do what they want, and that's that. We are spectators and have no say." This wouldn't be a fun message board if that's what every discussion boiled down to. Likewise we shouldn't restrict this discussion only to what the league CAN do. Everyone agrees the NFL can set whatever anthem policy they want, where we disagree is what that policy SHOULD be. That's not true. At all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 1 minute ago, vorpma said: And you answered! Wow, you have demonstrated a deep intellect! You poor, poor man. I bet you're bald from all the things that go over your head on a daily basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 30 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said: I watch football to get away from that crap. If you watch football to get away from politics, then why watch the anthem at all? Why not change the channel until the game starts? Why participate in this discussion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 20 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Who won? Are you 12? This is attitude is exactly why our country is becoming more divided than ever. A bunch of losers trying to say they won. It goes both ways. No actually it's people like you and them. You have no clue of the crap I have to dealwith in life. You put your big boy pants on and deal with. The real problem is a bunch of weak thin skinned ####### that don't deserve to live here. Stop telling people what they can and can't say. Stop telling people what they can and can't smoke. But if you're getting paid vthen for that Time frame yes you are property. You can say whatever you want and do whatever you want but we can't. That my friend isn't just a lack of empathy it is a complete display of narsisism. BTW you forgot to call me a racist homophob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 2 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: That's not true. At all. I haven't seen any posts here that imply otherwise. I'm sure some ignorant people think the NFL is violating the 1st amendment but most people understand they can set their own policies. I wouldn't waste my time arguing with someone that doesn't have a basic understanding of the topic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Very nice, but IMO a nice red herring here. Do employers, or do employers not, have the right to define OTJ performance rules? Do the rules, or do the rules not, apply equally to players of all races? In a vacuum, sure. In the wider context of society (which is where the meme originated) - I’ve yet to see what the acceptable version of protesting looks like, especially for minorities. The goal line seems to change frequently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 15 minutes ago, vorpma said: We can hook up and I can give you a personal tour and bring you back to reality! ha ha ha sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 1 minute ago, HappyDays said: I haven't seen any posts here that imply otherwise. I'm sure some ignorant people think the NFL is violating the 1st amendment but most people understand they can set their own policies. I wouldn't waste my time arguing with someone that doesn't have a basic understanding of the topic. In the original topic, there were several posters talking 1st amendment, talking the NFL doesn't have the right to mandate stuff, talking the fact it's a public stadium makes it a government issue. There's more misinformation than you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 21 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Or you could stop spending money and going to games because they are doing something you do not agree with. I pretty much did. Caught up with the games on the net. But my money wasn't refunded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Oh brother! Can someone why an employer should put up with their employees protesting things, during work hours, that have nothing to do with their place of employment? Answer....no employer would put up with this. This is NOT a first amendment issue. This is an issue of appropriate use of office time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 22 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Did they???? Is Pretesting stopping?? What happens when players are staying in the locker room that "MAGA Base" gonna cry again about disrespect? I'm not sure what pretesting is. I can tell you Kaperdik is sitting on his couch with Berry watching football and they won't be protesting at games this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: Oh brother! Can someone why an employer should put up with their employees protesting things, during work hours, that have nothing to do with their place of employment? Answer....no employer would put up with this. This is NOT a first amendment issue. This is an issue of appropriate use of office time. What Employer FORCES mandatory participation in the Anthem or Pledge before a meeting? Go ahead and find me that first, once you can tell me that you can then explain to me how standing for a Song is appropriate use of Office time for a football player, wouldn't that be getting treatment, stretching last minute prep? Edited May 25, 2018 by MAJBobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 10 minutes ago, HappyDays said: If you watch football to get away from politics, then why watch the anthem at all? Why not change the channel until the game starts? Why participate in this discussion? I just can't help myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 1 minute ago, formerlyofCtown said: I'm not sure what pretesting is. I can tell you Kaperdik is sitting on his couch with Berry watching football and they won't be protesting at games this year. Yep Cool a Bunch of Billionaires that do less for people than Kaepernick taking some type of moral high ground by blackballing him. Now that is comical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said: Oh brother! Can someone why an employer should put up with their employees protesting things, during work hours, that have nothing to do with their place of employment? Answer....no employer would put up with this. This is NOT a first amendment issue. This is an issue of appropriate use of office time. I mentioned this in the other thread before it got closed. There is a difference between active and passive protesting. Active protesting would be a player showing up with a banner that said "RACIAL JUSTICE FOR ALL" and displaying it in front of the cameras. In this case however they are being told they have to stand for the anthem - an action that has nothing to do with being a football player - and passively refusing to stand. I personally think this is an important distinction. The protest also doesn't infringe on their ability to do their job. The only downside if we're being blunt is that some people are offended by it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said: Oh brother! Can someone why an employer should put up with their employees protesting things, during work hours, that have nothing to do with their place of employment? Answer....no employer would put up with this. This is NOT a first amendment issue. This is an issue of appropriate use of office time. Exactly. Fans are not interested in player's political, social, etc opinions, and displaying such opinions during game time is not appropriate. The NFL paid the price (literally) last season for these protests, hence the 'new' rules. Actually, it was an old rule that they seemed to think needed re-codified. Fans want to see games free of politics and maybe the NFL is starting to get this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: What Employer FORCES mandatory participation in the Anthem or Pledge before a meeting? Go ahead and find me that first Employers FORCE mandatory participation in all kinds of non-sense that are way more annoying than the National Anthem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 1 minute ago, Happy Gilmore said: Exactly. Fans are not interested in player's political, social, etc opinions, and displaying such opinions during game time is not appropriate. The NFL paid the price (literally) last season for these protests, hence the 'new' rules. Actually, it was an old rule that they seemed to think needed re-codified. Fans want to see games free of politics and maybe the NFL is starting to get this. How did they pay the price again, they made more Revenue than the made in 2016? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bray Wyatt Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 3 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: What Employer FORCES mandatory participation in the Anthem or Pledge before a meeting? Go ahead and find me that first The NFL isn’t forcing participation with this new rule 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said: Employers FORCE mandatory participation in all kinds of non-sense that are way more annoying than the National Anthem. So None. NO EMPLOYER forced standing for the National Anthem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 5 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: Oh brother! Can someone why an employer should put up with their employees protesting things, during work hours, that have nothing to do with their place of employment? Answer....no employer would put up with this. This is NOT a first amendment issue. This is an issue of appropriate use of office time. “Regular” people’s jobs aren’t the same. Like it or not, these guys are looked up to as role models and they have more power than the average person. Their voices can lead to real changes. i swear there are some people here who would have complained about Jackie Robinson. They should just in their place right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Just now, Bray Wyatt said: The NFL isn’t forcing participation with this new rule They aren't really, so a player can be on the field and going over say the gameplan when the Anthem comes on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 26 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: And I've seen that larger point mentioned over and over and over in this debate. I don't understand why. It's irrelevant, you agree. So why does it continue to conflate the argument? People are allowed to be hypocrites. In fact, they have the right to be. The points are often conflated due to the overlying principle at the crux of the argument; the right to protest or not. Is it really a surprise that people may not appreciate that private companies are allowed to mandate employee behavior? Is that what really angers you about the issue; that people don't have that understanding? Yes, people are allowed to be hypocrites. It would be hell for so many if that weren't so. As this debate has clearly illustrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 3 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said: Exactly. Fans are not interested in player's political, social, etc opinions, and displaying such opinions during game time is not appropriate. The NFL paid the price (literally) last season for these protests, hence the 'new' rules. Actually, it was an old rule that they seemed to think needed re-codified. Fans want to see games free of politics and maybe the NFL is starting to get this. Stop saying this is how all fans think. It’s not. I respect people who try and help those who have less than they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Just now, MAJBobby said: How did they pay the price again, they made more Revenue than the made in 2016? Loss of good-will, lower attendance, unwanted attention. They may have made more from TV contracts, won't argue that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bray Wyatt Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Just now, MAJBobby said: They aren't really, so a player can be on the field and going over say the gameplan when the Anthem comes on? If that’s what they want to do, sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 The reason this 'protest' is so divisive is that no one knows what the heck these guys are actually protesting, how the heck they'll know when to end their protest, or why the heck they chose the national anthem as the time to conduct it. Maybe next time they can get better organized! (Here's a hint.....The official symbol of your local Police Department, is NOT the national anthem!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 28 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: It's a **** perspective, because the NBA has required standing for the anthem for 20+ years. You LACK perspective. Period. The nba is the most progressive sports league in the world and encourages their athletes/ coaches to speak their mind. The nfl is ass backwards. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Just now, Bray Wyatt said: If that’s what they want to do, sure And then what happens with this policy. They get fined RIGHT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 4 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: “Regular” people’s jobs aren’t the same. Like it or not, these guys are looked up to as role models and they have more power than the average person. Their voices can lead to real changes. i swear there are some people here who would have complained about Jackie Robinson. They should just in their place right? These guys are actors on a TV show! They are not role models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Stop saying this is how all fans think. It’s not. I respect people who try and help those who have less than they do. I believe the majority of fans do feel this way, not all, but most. I have no problem with players helping others who have less than they do, but that is not what is being debated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said: The reason this 'protest' is so divisive is that no one knows what the heck these guys are actually protesting, how the heck they'll know when to end their protest, or why the heck they chose the national anthem as the time to conduct it. Maybe next time they can get better organized! (Here's a hint.....The official symbol of your local Police Department, is NOT the national anthem!) The reason this "protest" is so divisive is because anything race related gets divisive. And that is exacerbated by the current sitting president. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bray Wyatt Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: And then what happens with this policy. They get fined RIGHT? Yes as is the employers right. I would suggest that if they really wanted to go over game film to stay in the locker room and they wouldn’t be fined. I don’t see how that’s unreasonable Edited May 25, 2018 by Bray Wyatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Just now, Happy Gilmore said: I believe the majority of fans do feel this way, not all, but most. I have no problem with players helping others who have less than they do, but that is not what is being debated. Maybe your friend group. You honestly think most people of color feel this way? Pretty naive to think that. And nascar lost a lot of ratings. Probably because of those kneelers they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 (edited) 17 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Yep Cool a Bunch of Billionaires that do less for people than Kaepernick taking some type of moral high ground by blackballing him. Now that is comical. They cater to their customers and that is ethical that is what you are supposed to do as a business. These players have no ethics and don't care what the people paying think or how they feel. They are what they claim to hate. A bunch of hypocrits. it's ironic that I made a legitimate point and no one empathises with me. The funny part is you actually think they care,. Edited May 25, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan politics -> ppp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Just now, Bray Wyatt said: Yes as is the employers right. I would suggest that if they really wanted to go over game film to stay in the locker room and they wouldn’t be fine. I don’t see how that’s unreasonable So again What other Employer FORCES participation in the National Anthem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Of they can all not protest like the NBA mandates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bray Wyatt Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 (edited) You are missing the part where if they don’t want to participate they can stay in the locker room without punishment that was for majbobby Edited May 25, 2018 by Bray Wyatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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