National Anthem Solution

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

 

Where do you live?  Guessing Buffalo. So Drive up to Ft Drum, poll the 10th Mountain on if they feel disrespected by the kneeling. And get back to me

Guessed wrong.  You're full of false assumptions on this thread, huh?

[mannc]

2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Yet ratings down all across TV and the NFLs where actually up this year so you might want to rethink why ratings where “down”

Thank you.  The “ratings are down because of the protests” argument is nonsense.  It certainly has not negatively affected the value of NFL franchises.

[boyst]

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Where do you live?  Guessing Buffalo. So Drive up to Ft Drum, poll the 10th Mountain on if they feel disrespected by the kneeling. And get back to me

Polling 100 troops doesn't change the fact that 10 find it offensive and the 100 don't.

 

Why does this not sink in to anyone's thoughts?  Group think and hive mind do not exist.

[BillsVet]

3 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Yet ratings down all across TV and the NFLs where actually up this year so you might want to rethink why ratings where “down”

 

You're at Ft. Hood?  LOL

 

Conflating the idea of ratings being down does not remove the fact the NFL has taken a hit in viewership, particularly since 2016.  And I suspect that this coincides with the protests, although other things have happened. 

[MAJBobby]

2 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

Ratings are down. Disguising that with the metrics used hilariously ill contrived.  Approval ratings of the league are tanking, ratings of interest are down. People watch but people don't care.

 

 

 

And I bet that has less to do with thr kneeling and more to do with how crappy the product has become with the officiating, ambiguous rules etc etc

3 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Guessed wrong.  You're full of false assumptions on this thread, huh?

 

Ok cool again drive to the nearest military base where you live and ask. 

[BadLandsMeanie]

20 minutes ago, Tuco said:

 

Personally, I can agree with this. But the problem really isn't the injustice they're protesting - although that's what everybody makes it out to be (not that it isn't a problem, just that it's really not the NFL issue at its root). The problem is they are protesting while wearig their company's uniform. Nobody has the right to do that if the company doesn't allow it. Now the fact that their cause is just (in most people's eyes) clouds the issue for many people. When you talk about their right to peaceful protest, yes, we all have that right here in America. But think back to last year when numerous players joined into protesting the week after the president pissed everybody off. There were players saying they were  kneeling for Puerto Rico and all sorts of other causes. Still just causes for the most part, but allowing it just because they have the right opens the door to a myriad of problems.

 

For starters, what happens when a handful of players decide they want to exercise their right to protest abortion and start holding up pictures of dead fetuses during the anthem? Or maybe a player pulls a cross out of his jock and burns it during the anthem. The same exact "right" to peaceful protest exists for them as it does for the current racial injustice protesters, just as it would for any protest that falls between those extremes, yet no team would allow it.  So where does the league draw the line? Can any player protest anything just because they have the right? Remember, they're on the clock wearing their company's uniform. Does every player have to get permission from the commish to have his cause approved? Does the commish have to publish a list of acceptable protests and non-accpetible protest causes?

 

As others have said, Brady Quinn is full of ****. Maybe it wasn't an NFL rule but teams had their players standing for the anthem long before 911 and long before Colin keapernick was born. And it wasn't "forced patriotism." It was a team rule just like all the rest of them. They weren't forcing players to stand for or against injustice and inequality. It was no more or less a team rule than being in your hotel room by 10:00 on game night. Or making players sign autographs at camp. Or wearing a suit and tie while traveling to road games.

 

The league screwed up by not nipping it in the bud. By remaining silent they allowed the issue to grow. Instead of that they should have done what any other company would have done. They should have issued a reminder that while in the employ of their teams and representing their teams in uniform, players are not allowed to partake in protests of any kind, social or political. Instead they remained silent and allowed it to grow into  a singularly didiving issue that now has people ignoring the fact that protests of any kind shouldn't be allowed while on company time. $.02

 

 

 

 

Good post. But they will not listen to reason. 

The NFL may have made this worse.

They keep being owned by Donald Trump who I think they almost universally regard as an idiot. Yet Trump did this to them with a few tweets and some remarks in a speech. All of which amounted to maybe 10 or 15 minutes of his time.

The players and owners should reflect upon what it means to be taken advantage of and outwitted by a moron.

[boyst]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

 

And I bet that has less to do with thr kneeling and more to do with how crappy the product has become with the officiating, ambiguous rules etc etc

 

Just now, MAJBobby said:

 

And I bet that has less to do with thr kneeling and more to do with how crappy the product has become with the officiating, ambiguous rules etc etc

There is no conclusive way to determine this...

[BringBackOrton]

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

 

And I bet that has less to do with thr kneeling and more to do with how crappy the product has become with the officiating, ambiguous rules etc etc

 

Ok cool again drive to the nearest military base where you live and ask. 

There are polls online that disagree.  You know that, right Bobby?

 

Why do you think your personal experience is worth more than that?

Edited May 25, 2018 by BringBackOrton

[SouthNYfan]

14 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

Abso-freaking-lutely!  I served in the US Navy and I'm not offended by the kneeling.  It's a form of peaceful protest, which is one of the freedoms we have in this country, last time I checked.  To some, the players can only protest in certain ways at certain times.  Well, I say to them, "This is America, protest away."

 

I treated a 99 year old d-day vet at my pt clinic last year at my PT clinic. Op

I'm talking Omaha beach front line vet.

I asked him about the kneeling.

His answer?

"I didn't watch my buddies get shredded by German machine guns, blood and guts in the sand, so some jackoff could tell somebody they didn't have the right to protest. I fought for their freedom to protest. I find it disrespectful for what I fought for to tell them they cannot protest. Should they do it at work? No. They shouldn't. I get that. Don't tell me the kneeling is disrespect though."

 

 

Everybody has a right to feel whatever they want is disrespectful, that's all well and good, but the same people pissing and moaning about the disrespect to the flag are also usually the same ones wearing flag t-shirts, drinking beer with it on the cans, wearing American flag underwear, which are all against flag code to begin with.

 

Protests are fine, and but disrespectful in any way as far as I'm concerned.

When the former ranger on kaeps team came to him and suggested he kneel instead of sitting as a way to be respectful but still get his point across, kaep willingly did so, as his intent wasn't too be disrespectful.

 

True disrespect almost always goes hand in hand with intent, which kaep showed he had no intent to disrespect by switching from sitting to a knee at the behest of a vet.

Edited May 25, 2018 by SouthNYfan

[MAJBobby]

3 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

Polling 100 troops doesn't change the fact that 10 find it offensive and the 100 don't.

 

Why does this not sink in to anyone's thoughts?  Group think and hive mind do not exist.

 

So cool we limit freedoms for the Minority now?  I know heck there wasnt even an official vote. But hey they bowed to Someone in DC that can now use that players are staying in the locker room as something else to rally his base 

[Tuco]

11 minutes ago, mannc said:

As you said, it’s a gray area.  I’m not intimately familiar with the CBA so I’m not sure, but it’s possible that the league can’t mandate something like this and that a player who’s fined (or disciplined) could win a grievance.

 

 

If the commish finds the conduct detrimental to the league or professional football, they can enforce it.

 

 

2. EMPLOYMENT AND SERVICES. Club employs Player as a skilled football player. Player accepts such employment. He agrees to give his best efforts and loyalty to the Club, and to conduct himself on and off the field with appropriate recognition of the fact that the success of professional football depends largely on public respect for and approval of those associated with the game.

 

15. INTEGRITY OF GAME. Player recognizes the detriment to the League and professional football that would result from impairment of public confidence in the honest and orderly conduct of NFL games or the integrity and good character of NFL players. Player therefore acknowledges his awareness that if he accepts a bribe or agrees to throw or fix an NFL game; fails to promptly report a bribe offer or an attempt to throw or fix an NFL game; bets on an NFL game; knowingly associates with gamblers or gambling activity; uses or provides other players with stimulants or other drugs for the purpose of attempting to enhance on-field performance; or is guilty of any other form of conduct reasonably judged by the League Commissioner to be detrimental to the League or professional football, the Commissioner will have the right, but only after giving Player the opportunity for a hearing at which he may be represented by counsel of his choice, to fine Player in a reasonable amount; to suspend Player for a period certain or indefinitely; and/or to terminate this contract.

[MAJBobby]

4 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

You're at Ft. Hood?  LOL

 

Conflating the idea of ratings being down does not remove the fact the NFL has taken a hit in viewership, particularly since 2016.  And I suspect that this coincides with the protests, although other things have happened. 

 

Yep at Ft Hood. Actually hate this post 

[BillsVet]

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

And I bet that has less to do with thr kneeling and more to do with how crappy the product has become with the officiating, ambiguous rules etc etc

 

There are indeed multiple reasons for the ratings going down.  Changing viewer behavior and, among other things, dilution of the product are definitely contributing causes for declining ratings.  I always found it hilarious back in 2016 when the league blamed the Presidential Election for lower ratings. 

 

 

[MAJBobby]

3 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

There are polls online that disagree.  You know that, right Bobby?

 

Why do you think your personal experience is worth more than that?

 

Because my Personal experience is what i have. Some give alot for service to this Nation. Others B word about the Nation and use US as their pawn in said B word. 

 

Either way I am done. Enjoy your Beer and BBQ on Memorial Day

Edited May 25, 2018 by MAJBobby

[BillsVet]

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

Yep at Ft Hood. Actually hate this post 

 

A Field Grade officer no less?

[BringBackOrton]

4 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Because my Personal experience is what i have. Some give alot for service to this Nation. Others B word about the Nation and use US as their pawn in said B word

https://iava.org/anthem/

 

Here ya go. 

 

 

62% of vets polled object to the protest.  You and your 3 friends are a drop in the bucket.

Edited May 25, 2018 by BringBackOrton

[MAJBobby]

5 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

 

There is no conclusive way to determine this...

 

Then there also is no conclusive way of showing it isnt 

[macaroni]

5 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

The NFL is ill-equipped to solve racial injustice.  Furthermore, that's not why fans tune in.

 

On those points we agree ...

 

However the NFL very well could be PART of the solution ... I can't think of a better example, other than maybe the military, where the common goals of the "team" can not be achieved without the full unselfish cooperation of everybody on that team, regardless of race, creed, or color. The teams need to work in the communities (holding themselves up as shining examples) combating racism on both sides of the color line ... and yes I believe there is just as much racism from the black community towards the white as there is from the white towards the black. I do believe the Bills have started a community outreach program funded jointly by the owners and players, and I would hazard a guess that other teams do the same ... unfortunately that doesn't warrant the same air time as the "protest problem".

 

I also agree that the fans don't tune in to a ball game to solve social injustice (at least I know I don't), but millions upon millions of fans DO tune in. The fact that the players have such a widespread audience comprised of a cross section of our population gives them a perfect forum to get their message out about social injustice. To understand MY point, you must understand that I feel the protest was never meant to SOLVE social injustice ... it was meant to get the problem talked about ... bring it to the forefront ... maybe spur some actions toward solving the social injustice problem.

 

Where we lost our way is that the media took the easy way out and created a furor over a couple of players kneeling during the anthem, instead of taking on the difficult questions as to why this social injustice can still take place in this country, and how can we as a society solve the problem. 

[MAJBobby]

2 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

A Field Grade officer no less?

Yep with half a hand, other half left in sand box. With 7 deployments under my belt. And still serving. 

 

If you want the rest of my Bio 

2 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

https://iava.org/anthem/

 

Here ya go. 

 

 

62% of vets polled object to the protest.  You are your 3 friends are a drop in the bucket.

 

No what is a drop in the bucket is the 8018 veterans and SM pulled. And think it is some type of meaning. Quick how big is the current Active Force?

[BringBackOrton]

1 minute ago, macaroni said:

 

On those points we agree ...

 

However the NFL very well could be PART of the solution ... I can't think of a better example, other than maybe the military, where the common goals of the "team" can not be achieved without the full unselfish cooperation of everybody on that team, regardless of race, creed, or color. The teams need to work in the communities (holding themselves up as shining examples) combating racism on both sides of the color line ... and yes I believe there is just as much racism from the black community towards the white as there is from the white towards the black. I do believe the Bills have started a community outreach program funded jointly by the owners and players, and I would hazard a guess that other teams do the same ... unfortunately that doesn't warrant the same air time as the "protest problem".

 

I also agree that the fans don't tune in to a ball game to solve social injustice (at least I know I don't), but millions upon millions of fans DO tune in. The fact that the players have such a widespread audience comprised of a cross section of our population gives them a perfect forum to get their message out about social injustice. To understand MY point, you must understand that I feel the protest was never meant to SOLVE social injustice ... it was meant to get the problem talked about ... bring it to the forefront ... maybe spur some actions toward solving the social injustice problem.

 

Where we lost our way is that the media took the easy way out and created a furor over a couple of players kneeling during the anthem, instead of taking on the difficult questions as to why this social injustice can still take place in this country, and how can we as a society solve the problem. 

Well, you can thank Colin Kaepernick for dancing the line of raising awareness and being a disrespectful idiot.

2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Yep with half a hand, other half left in sand box. With 7 deployments under my belt. And still serving. 

 

If you want the rest of my Bio 

 

No what is a drop in the bucket is the 8018 veterans and SM pulled. And think it is some type of meaning. Quick how big is the current Active Force?

LOL.  So the handful of vets you talk to supersedes a poll of 8000 + vets?  

 

What a joke.  8000 is easily a large enough number to adequately represent the military.  You lose, Bob.  You and your friends are NOT the majority, per this poll.

[boyst]

4 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Then there also is no conclusive way of showing it isnt 

Which means all.of this is a moot point

 

If 98% of the population that served didn't care. 1% found it offensive. 1% found it just.

 

...we would still have the media flaming this for ratings and shoving it down our throats like the narrative and distraction it is.  

[MAJBobby]

2 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Well, you can thank Colin Kaepernick for dancing the line of raising awareness and being a disrespectful idiot.

LOL.  So the handful of vets you talk to supersedes a poll of 8000 + vets?  

 

What a joke.  8000 is easily a large enough number to adequately represent the military.  You lose, Bob.  You and your friends are NOT the majority, per this poll.

 

Again what is the size of the Current ACTIVE force?

 

so 0.019% (of the ACTIVE Force) lets not add in the numbers of Vets and ARNG and Reserves. Mean something. Lol sure we both are talking statistical NOTHINGS 

Edited May 25, 2018 by MAJBobby

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

 

Again what is the size of the Current ACTIVE force?

What's your point?  

[WhoTom]

In case anyone would like a little history lesson:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/68141866/5761581

Quote

The Karlsruhe Football Club has been prohibited from playing during 1934 because the team failed to give the Nazi salute when entering the field to play against a French club from Nancy at Metz in December.

 

My father served in the war AGAINST the Nazis.

 

[MAJBobby]

3 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

Which means all.of this is a moot point

 

If 98% of the population that served didn't care. 1% found it offensive. 1% found it just.

 

...we would still have the media flaming this for ratings and shoving it down our throats like the narrative and distraction it is.  

 Yeah it doesnt matter. The NFL had a chance with his influence and power to stimulate something. Instead reversed course. Ignored their partners made a policy bending over to DC. 

 

So when 45 moves the goalposts again (he will) they already showed they are spineless enough to bend over again

3 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

What's your point?  

 

Point is your using a statistical nothing to combat my statistical nothing 

[BringBackOrton]

2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 Yeah it doesnt matter. The NFL had a chance with his influence and power to stimulate something. Instead reversed course. Ignored their partners made a policy bending over to DC. 

 

So when 45 moves the goalposts again (he will) they already showed they are spineless enough to bend over again

 

Point is your using a statistical nothing to combat my statistical nothing 

Hey Bob, do you think that 8000 is a better representation of the military than 5?

 

Let me know.

 

You know that NO POLL actually polls every single person, right?  They just poll enough to try to get a diverse and adequate representation, right?

Edited May 25, 2018 by BringBackOrton

[MAJBobby]

One simple question 

 

On Monday what is everyone doing?  Having a day of remembering or BBQing Drinking wearing their flag clothes?

[White Linen]

2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 Yeah it doesnt matter. The NFL had a chance with his influence and power to stimulate something. Instead reversed course. Ignored their partners made a policy bending over to DC. 

 

So when 45 moves the goalposts again (he will) they already showed they are spineless enough to bend over again

 

 

 

There it is..... the truth of what you're really mad about.  

[ALLEN1QB]

We really need to move on from this topic and talk football already. GO BILLS

[MAJBobby]

1 minute ago, BringBackOrton said:

Hey Bob, do you think that 8000 is a better representation of the military than 5?

 

Let me know.

 

You know that NO POLL actually polls every single person, right?  They just poll enough to try to get a diverse and adequate representation, right?

 

.0019% of the active force. 

0.000% if you combine active force and Vets. 

 

0%. Wow what a diverse and adequate representation lol

[cd1]

2 hours ago, Jeetz1231 said:

I know I am probably in the minority, but I am a veteran of the US military and I don't personally feel like the kneeling is disrespectful to the flag or my brothers and sisters who served and are still serving. If anything it shows the freedoms we have in this country as individuals. The protest is for racial injustice when dealing with police, they are using their right to peaceful protest. I personally would prefer that they stood for the anthem, but at the end of the day we live in a country that gives them the right to kneel for the anthem, and that is what makes this country great.

 'nuf said

[MAJBobby]

6 minutes ago, White Linen said:

 

There it is..... the truth of what you're really mad about.  

 

What that they had a chance to do nothing and support their partners and maybe reflect change? But bent over for DC?

 

yeah that is horrible and what i am made about limiting freedoms because of the government. 

 

And i have said a couple things i am really mad about in this thread

Edited May 25, 2018 by MAJBobby

[BringBackOrton]

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

 

.0019% of the active force. 

0.000% if you combine active force and Vets. 

 

0%. Wow what a diverse and adequate representation lol

 

27 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Where do you live?  Guessing Buffalo. So Drive up to Ft Drum, poll the 10th Mountain on if they feel disrespected by the kneeling. And get back to me

MAJBobby of page 5?

 

I'd like to introduce you to MAJBobby of page 3.  

 

It's hard to stay consistent when you're emotional.  I get it.  Later, fella.

[MAJBobby]

3 minutes ago, PIP said:

We really need to move on from this topic and talk football already. GO BILLS

 

See thats what everyone wants. That is why this happened. Put the real problem back in the closet 

Just now, BringBackOrton said:

 

MAJBobby of page 5?

 

I'd like to introduce you to MAJBobby of page 3.  

 

It's hard to stay consistent when you're emotional.  I get it.  Later, fella.

 

No just telling you to actually go talk to some. Instead of some junk poll. 

[BringBackOrton]

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

 

See thats what everyone wants. That is why this happened. Put the real problem back in the closet 

 

No just telling you to actually go talk to some. Instead of some junk poll. 

Which will prove what?  You just said 8000 people isn't enough.  

 

This is an emotionally charged topic for you, and you're flailing.  It happens.  

[boyst]

10 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 Yeah it doesnt matter. The NFL had a chance with his influence and power to stimulate something. Instead reversed course. Ignored their partners made a policy bending over to DC. 

 

So when 45 moves the goalposts again (he will) they already showed they are spineless enough to bend over again

 

Point is your using a statistical nothing to combat my statistical nothing 

Nothing to do with 45. Sorry TDS has caused such tearing and pain to you.

 

But, the NFL doesn't need to make a scause stance.  That's bull ****. The NFL.has much bigger issues than some dumbass Kaepernick who ha sthe intellectual capacity of a flea causing them a headache. The NFL !@#$ed up not smacking this in the face when it started.  

[billsfan1959]

2 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Which will prove what?  You just said 8000 people isn't enough.  

 

This is an emotionally charged topic for you, and you're flailing.  It happens.  

He's pretty much the same under any topic....

[JinxedBill1]

I'm active duty stationed in AZ.  Been in for 13 now.  Read my lips, no one cares about this in the military.  We have stressful lives and could give two shoes about what they do during the anthem.  We want to watch football to distract us from our stressful jobs.  Don't feed the media.

 

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

No employer would let their employees use their workplace as a place to protest something that is NOT about the workplace. 

 

How many employers would force their employees to stand for the anthem before their shift? It is more complicated than protesting in the work place. The players didn't ask to stand and show fake patriotism. The anthem has nothing to do with their jobs.

[MAJBobby]

Just now, Boyst62 said:

Nothing to do with 45. Sorry TDS has caused such tearing and pain to you.

 

But, the NFL doesn't need to make a scause stance.  That's bull ****. The NFL.has much bigger issues than some dumbass Kaepernick who ha sthe intellectual capacity of a flea causing them a headache. The NFL !@#$ed up not smacking this in the face when it started.  

 

How many where kneeling at the end of the year?  How many articles written about protest at end of year?

 

and How much did they really suffer still gaining a Billion in revenue from 13B to 14B 

 

so tell me again how this had nothing to do with 45 even after the owners even mention his mouth was part of the discussions.