Still no cheerleaders for the Bills?

[Doc]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:

You use people as if it is a mix of men and women.  It's not, it's just half-naked women. I stated that if they were fully clothed and it was multi-gender I wouldn't have a problem but we really need to have just half-naked women?  

 

What is your problem with it, specifically?  Do you have a problem with women walking around "half-naked" in Summer time?

[Jauronimo]

56 minutes ago, MC Hamburg said:

Im not clear why after all these years we still don't have a cheerleading squad...are we the only NFL team to not have them? I know there was a lawsuit of some sorts but isn't it settled by now?

Until the Jills commit to improve their vaginal hygiene, the Bills should hold the line.  Stay strong, El Pegual!

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, Doc said:

 

What is your problem with it, specifically?  Do you have a problem with women walking around "half-naked" in Summer time?

 

My guess to the answer there is "no."

 

Because it's only objectification if people objectify the individual dressed in that manner. Did I guess right?

 

[The Now Moment]

6 minutes ago, Dirtbag said:

it has something to do with progressives being hypocrites. or, maybe to spite faux intellectualism. the target is moving...

Still haven't heard one defense why they have to be half-naked or just women.  

[Kirby Jackson]

12 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

Other leagues have dance teams/cheerleaders and I haven't heard of any major issues like the NFL has had.

My fiancé danced in the NBA for 2 seasons. It was a totally different environment. She used to get like $50 an hour for appearances. That’s probably why you don’t hear the complaints. These girls made $1200 on all-star weekend. You’d need to be an NFL cheerleader for like 6 years to make that. It was highly competitive and the girls all danced in college or at a high level. They had to deal with some of the bs but in general it was a good part time job while she was in school.

[The Now Moment]

4 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

What is your problem with it, specifically?  Do you have a problem with women walking around "half-naked" in Summer time?

Why is it not directed more towards a family atmosphere?  Why is it just female dancers, there are male dancers too.  Why do they have to be half-naked?  It really just doesn't make sense why they need to be half-naked and only female.  The sport is not just for men anymore, it is a family sport.  

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

My guess to the answer there is "no."

 

Because it's only objectification if people objectify the individual dressed in that manner. Did I guess right?

 

But, are we truly "objectifying" cheerleaders?  Or are they just women doing a job they signed up for and that's their business attire?  Hmmmmmm.

Just now, Buffalo30 said:

Why is it not directed more towards a family atmosphere?  Why is it just female dancers, there are male dancers too.  Why do they have to be half-naked?  It really just doesn't make sense why they need to be half-naked and only female.  The sport is not just for men anymore, it is a family sport.  

 

Why do the players have to be in such tight uniforms?

[The Now Moment]

4 minutes ago, Doc said:

Why do the players have to be in such tight uniforms?

That's a really far reach man.  There are dancers that wear clothes too. 

[LeGOATski]

5 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

My fiancé danced in the NBA for 2 seasons. It was a totally different environment. She used to get like $50 an hour for appearances. That’s probably why you don’t hear the complaints. These girls made $1200 on all-star weekend. You’d need to be an NFL cheerleader for like 6 years to make that. It was highly competitive and the girls all danced in college or at a high level. They had to deal with some of the bs but in general it was a good part time job while she was in school.

Yep. People like money. People like to dance and feel sexy.

 

Some people are good enough at dancing and being sexy to make money doing it, so let them.

 

Contract a real dance team and entertain the fans with it.

[Doc]

7 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:

That's a really far reach man.  There are dancers that wear clothes too. 

 

Look, I don't care about cheerleaders and would rather the Bills never bring them back.  I just don't see the problem with them, and they're no more "half-naked" than your average girl/woman during summer, which was my point.  And unless they're simulating sex acts on the field, it's not family unfriendly. 

[DriveFor1Outta5]

25 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

I already I told you I agree with you.

 

But it ain't because i'm worried about "the children."

 

If you’re worried about “the children”, you wouldn’t bring them to a Bills game. 

[The Now Moment]

6 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Look, I don't care about cheerleaders and would rather the Bills never bring them back.  I just don't see the problem with them, and they're no more "half-naked" than your average girl/woman during summer, which was my point.  And unless they're simulating sex acts on the field, it's not family unfriendly. 

I disagree that they are family friendly.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, MC Hamburg said:

Im not clear why after all these years we still don't have a cheerleading squad...are we the only NFL team to not have them? I know there was a lawsuit of some sorts but isn't it settled by now?

 

From Wiki: " As of 2016, six teams do not have cheerleading squads: Buffalo Bills, Chicago Bears, Cleveland Browns, Green Bay Packers, New York Giants, and the Pittsburgh Steelers. "

 

There was some sort of ruling last fall, I think to the effect that the Jills were "non-exempt employees" not "independent contractors" and that it's a valid "class action lawsuit", but AFAIK the lawsuit is not settled.

 

If you want a serious answer, I think the heart of the problem for the Bills and some other teams is that they wanted to have it both ways - they wanted to gain the PR benefits of having cheerleaders, but to avoid the expense and overhead by letting an independent contractor manage and supervise and schedule the Jills and claiming to not be involved.  The lawsuit exposed the downside to that business model.  Having the cheerleaders run by an independent contractor with potential negative PR from abuses is now seen as an unacceptable liability risk. 

 

So unless someone within the Bills organization has a lot of energy around setting up and running cheerleaders in-house (and paying them minimum wage for the hours they're required to put in), I don't think we'll see a Jills revival.

[DriveFor1Outta5]

28 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

But, are we truly "objectifying" cheerleaders?  Or are they just women doing a job they signed up for and that's their business attire?  Hmmmmmm.

 

Why do the players have to be in such tight uniforms?

Exactly. At one point do we outlaw actors who take their shirts off for female audiences to leer at? What about all the male musicians who attract female audiences based almost solely on appearance? Of course it will never get to that point, because there is a different agenda at play. For the sake of equality this should be what occurs however. My point is that this is all ridiculous. Pop culture lynch mobs should never be created to prevent people from “objectifying” themselves. If society gets to the point where women themselves choose to no longer be cheerleaders, the argument would be completely different. 

Edited May 13, 2018 by DriveFor1Outta5

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

7 minutes ago, DriveFor1Outta5 said:

If you’re worried about “the children”, you wouldn’t bring them to a Bills game. 

 

EXACTLY.

 

[DriveFor1Outta5]

6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

From Wiki: " As of 2016, six teams do not have cheerleading squads: Buffalo Bills, Chicago Bears, Cleveland Browns, Green Bay Packers, New York Giants, and the Pittsburgh Steelers. "

 

There was some sort of ruling last fall, I think to the effect that the Jills were "non-exempt employees" not "independent contractors" and that it's a valid "class action lawsuit", but AFAIK the lawsuit is not settled.

 

If you want a serious answer, I think the heart of the problem for the Bills and some other teams is that they wanted to have it both ways - they wanted to gain the PR benefits of having cheerleaders, but to avoid the expense and overhead by letting an independent contractor manage and supervise and schedule the Jills and claiming to not be involved.  The lawsuit exposed the downside to that business model.  Having the cheerleaders run by an independent contractor with potential negative PR from abuses is now seen as an unacceptable liability risk. 

 

So unless someone within the Bills organization has a lot of energy around setting up and running cheerleaders in-house (and paying them minimum wage for the hours they're required to put in), I don't think we'll see a Jills revival.

Great post. You’re looking at this issue from a logical standpoint based on what really matters, money. This is the real reason the Jills don’t exist, and it’s the reason we won’t be seeing them return any time soon. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

I agree. People are WAY too politically correct these days and nothing good can come from what would inevitably be viewed as the objectification of women. 

 

Maybe it's just me, but I don't think it really has to do with concerns about objectification of women.  Follow the $$ IMO.  All about the bottom line.

[DrDawkinstein]

The NFL should just get rid of all the cheerleader squads. Theyre completely pointless, and just another point of problems for the NFL.

[DriveFor1Outta5]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Maybe it's just me, but I don't think it really has to do with concerns about objectification of women.  Follow the $$ IMO.  All about the bottom line.

If “objectification” is cited as a cause for the decline of pro cheerleading, it is nothing more than a convenient excuse. Social change rarely occurs until the powers that be determine the financial consequences imo. In this case, social progress would be a front for protecting the wallet. 

[Mountain Man]

Regardless of the reasons why the Jills dont perform. The simple question is, what do they add and why do you gain from having them?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

29 minutes ago, DriveFor1Outta5 said:

If you’re worried about “the children”, you wouldn’t bring them to a Bills game. 

 

This, unfortunately

 

Not to mention (I speak as a parent here) unless you are raising your kids in a remote area lacking cell phone service and internet access, kidz these days have seen much more than scanty-costumed cheerleaders doing a prance (or grind) on the sidelines.  And even then, look out when their cousin visits or a shopping trip to town.

 

9 minutes ago, DriveFor1Outta5 said:

If “objectification” is cited as a cause for the decline of pro cheerleading, it is nothing more than a convenient excuse. Social change rarely occurs until the powers that be determine the financial consequences imo. In this case, social progress would be a front for protecting the wallet. 

 

Agree, it's really all about the bottom line.  Judge says "they're non-exempt employees, pay them minimium hourly wage" team says "Nope, not worth that"

[par73]

Do we need a thread on this every few weeks?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

/

[zonabb]

They're not missed, let's move on. Hopefully they have some skills to fall back on and aren't pulling a Kramer waiting for the H&H Bagel strike to end. 

[Marv's Neighbor]

Since they've been gone, there's been very little to cheer about, so maybe they are not missed? 

[HOUSE]

Lawsuit and Suspension of Operations

Shortly after the squad's 35 members were selected for the 2014 season, a lawsuit was filed on April 22 by five former Jills that alleged the cheerleaders were not paid for hours they worked.^[7] Management then responded 2 days later by "suspending operations" of the cheerleading squad.^[8]

On July 3, 2014, NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell was subpoenaed to testify in the case after a document presented by the Bills in their defense contained his signature.^[9]

On May 28, 2015 Queens, NY Assemblywoman Nily Rozic introduced a bill in the New York State Assembly to change the New York State labor law to make it clear that professional cheerleaders are employees of the teams for which they cheer.^[10]

As of May 18, 2017, the plaintiffs scored a major victory in their lawsuit as a New York State Court has ruled the Jills to be non-exempt employees, not independent contractors. However, the court denied partial summary judgement as to whether the Bills themselves were their direct employers, and a jury will decide who the employers were unless a settlement is reached. ^[11][12] In November 2017, Cumulus Media, who purchased Citadel Broadcasting (one of the primary sponsors of the Jills), entered Chapter 11 bankruptcy, and in January 2018, the company sought to terminate any remaining Bills-related debts it owed.^[13]

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_Jills

[North Buffalo]

2 hours ago, Buffalo30 said:

Why is it not directed more towards a family atmosphere?  Why is it just female dancers, there are male dancers too.  Why do they have to be half-naked?  It really just doesn't make sense why they need to be half-naked and only female.  The sport is not just for men anymore, it is a family sport.  

Never thought of the violent drunken fans in the stands as a family sport. That being enjoyed cheerleaders but yeh they should get paid... wtf was the nfl thinking with all the money they make.  Women and men objectify themselves all the time... but agree its a double edge sword.  A women with big fake boobs and a practically see thru shirt is what?  You can glance, but if you stare as a guy you are a creep.  Maybe so, heck not even that attracted to that but they tend to be an eye sore anyway hard not to take a long look.  Still cheerleading, actual cheerleading is serious and part gymnastics... dance routine though are more of the objectivism and only help during a boring game.  I am ok with either as long if the decision yes than they should be paid well.

[Just Joshin']

Not required to enjoy the game, a hold over from college.  No need IMO.

[Watkins101]

3 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

No place in the NFL for cheerleaders in 2018

Some owners understand that. Of the 32 teams, there are six – the Chicago Bears, Buffalo Bills, Cleveland Browns, New York Giants, Pittsburgh Steelers and Green Bay Packers – that don’t have cheerleaders.

Notice how all of these cities are in the north.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

19 minutes ago, North Buffalo said:

A woman with big fake boobs and a practically see thru shirt is what?  You can glance, but if you stare as a guy you are a creep.  

 

Feminism in a nutshell.

[HOUSE]

Truth is the Jills started the first Cheerleader Union....their fate was sealed

• •  

• •  

Cheerleader union seeks respect, better pay Jill's Won't Be Buffaloes

March 04, 1995|By Ann LoLordo | Ann LoLordo,Sun Staff Writer

The Buffalo Jills are wearing the union label now. And not in their uniforms.

Among professional football cheerleaders, the Jills have scored a first. Last week, the 36-member squad voted overwhelmingly to have a union represent them on and off the field -- a decision fueled by poor pay and a desire to improve their image.

"We put a lot of time and effort into this," says Erin McCormack, a Jill who works as a legal assistant. "What we're trying to do is gain respect as a squad and to cheerleading as a whole."

Edited May 13, 2018 by THE SLAMMER

[xRUSHx]

18 minutes ago, Watkins101 said:

Notice how all of these cities are in the north.

Right on man, IMO it is too cold for cheerleaders up north unless they have a dome so these teams IMO just gave up because it is hard to have sexy women cheer in full snow suits I guess. SMH at all the posters that see no need for them, I guess they never really watched them cheer to the fans on game days or showed up to help at events or ever watched a professional dance show that has the women wear tight close to show off there body at how they can move. I guess some just like a complete sausage party at the games/events, maybe the way some are talking eventually no women will show up to even watch the game, why have any women at the game then.  IMO many of the women that see these cheerleaders look up to them and one day want to be one, of course some guys don't understand that thinking no need for them. Welcome to Trump world, get in the kitchen while us men go to the game.

[ProcessAccepted]

4 hours ago, MC Hamburg said:

Im not clear why after all these years we still don't have a cheerleading squad...are we the only NFL team to not have them? I know there was a lawsuit of some sorts but isn't it settled by now?

 

Prepare to have your mind blown. There is this technology called Google that allows you look for answers exactly these. Go to www.google.com and you'll be amazed how many of those nagging questions will be answered. 

[Chandler#81]

but.. but..I like jiggly..

[Seanbillsfan2206]

If you’re a heterosexual man and you don’t like cheerleaders, you might want to see a therapist. 

1 hour ago, ProcessAccepted said:

 

Prepare to have your mind blown. There is this technology called Google that allows you look for answers exactly these. Go to www.google.com and you'll be amazed how many of those nagging questions will be answered. 

This is pure witchcraft you speak of. Be gone, witch

[Hapless Bills Fan]

 

2 hours ago, North Buffalo said:

A women with big fake boobs and a practically see thru shirt is what?  You can glance, but if you stare as a guy you are a creep. 

 

2 hours ago, joesixpack said:

Feminism in a nutshell.

 

Thought that was Prince William/Megan Markle's engagement pics.  Me bad

[tumaro02]

I am happy NOT to have them anymore. Besides if they came back Terry and Kim would probably provide them with a venue to air their political agendas and kneel during the anthem as they did with their other employees. No lets not give Terry and Kim another opportunity to aggravate many long time paying patriotic fans again

[jr1]

it's not worth more lawsuits

[Wilton Bills]

Don't need them. Same routine and same music for 15 years running. Boring!!!!

Love the the Stampede drums. Jills added no value to the game. 

[aceman_16]

7 hours ago, frostbitmic said:

Would those of you that want cheerleaders object if the cheerleaders were half naked dancing men ?

Sounds like an aftermath of a good Happy Hour.

[Rockinon]

8 hours ago, Buffalo30 said:

Why do we need them?  I think cheerleaders are a thing of the past and should be done away with.  Do we really need half-naked women dancing?  This isn't just a sport for men anymore.  Women and children watch it.  Let's grow with the times not get stuck in old ones.  

I don't know. This seems like a narrow minded point of view. I grew up with cheer leaders in sports. In fact cheer leading, in many ways is a sport too. The women who do it are very competitive and to simply look at it as "half naked women" is kind of a stereotypical point of view. To me, I think the overall assumption that the women who do this are somehow less than professional is biased and maybe a bit too political for my taste.  I'd like them come back and be out there cheering for our team. Too many fuddy dudies around trying to knock something just because they think that these women are somehow ruining the world view of what a woman should be. It's really a shame.

 

As for the original court filings that lead up to dis-banning the squad I really don't have an opinion because I don't know what actually happened.  As far as I'm concerned, I hope things can be worked out and they can eventually come back.  I also hope that the kids playing the drums can continue too.  It's entertaining and really that's all it should be about.

Edited May 13, 2018 by Rockinon