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Every Josh Allen TD pass in 2016/2017


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16 hours ago, Buffalo30 said:

Agreed, plus another offseason will help to build the offense around him more.

Honestly, he is the opposite of Tyrod.  I think with a solid defense and a QB that can hit quick home runs while still relying on a solid run game...that'd be tough to beat.  

Yes, hopefully Allen can make teams pay for having 8 men in the box trying to stop McCoy.

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3 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

That's one of the biggest weaknesses I've noticed so far (I've watched 18 of his 25 games so far) - he tends to leaves the pocket too soon. Although not always, so he shows that he's capable of buying time in the pocket and making progressions. Just needs to do that more consistently.

 

Can David Culley and Brian Daboll teach this kid to be a technician? To consistently manage a game? That's the biggest question.

 

Here's a good example of Allen fighting his instinct to run away. Instead, he stays in the pocket, and (with proper footwork and mechanics) he's able to make a perfect throw over the middle for the first down.

 

2:32:07

 

 

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18 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yeah this is something I noticed when I rewatched some of his game film after we drafted him. I didn't methodically chart his throws so maybe I'm wrong, but it seemed to me like his worst throws came early in the game. He would sometimes get on hot streaks in the 2nd half where throw after throw was on the money. If he can channel that in the NFL he will be very successful. Some QBs have to get in a rhythm and then they become unstoppable. That's how Cam Newton is, it's just lately he hasn't found that rhythm often enough.

 

same thing in the senior bowl

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4 hours ago, eball said:

 

 

I dunno, boys...when the primary colors are piss yellow and poop brown I've got to question anyone who says those look good.

The colors on their own are mundane. Put together they go well. Kinda like Shepard’s Pie. And I enjoy a nice Shep Pie on a Sunday evening.

 

 

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19 hours ago, Fadingpain said:

His footwork is really bad.  I can see why people talk about that so much and how he relies on pure arm strength to bail himself out of trouble.  He loves to throw off the wrong foot.

 

 

You are just a one big ray of sunshine are you? 

I bet if you ever won the lottery the first thing out of your mouth would be bitching about all the taxes you’d have to pay !!!

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55 minutes ago, Woodman19 said:

That's what I see too.  

Throwing across his body on the run at high velocity,

 

Good percentage of Allens TD's thrown while under pressure/scrambling reminiscent of Big Ben.

 

MERCY

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6 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

Unfortunately, it's not that simple. He's just inconsistent not matter what the circumstances are. This was clearly demonstrated in the offseason practices as he completely missed a target net from 10 yards away, but then nailed the goal post in one shot from 35 yards away. I think we just have to accept that this is the nature of the beast. We're gonna see amazing one-in-375 million throws, but also amazingly bad throws. He might lead the league in TDs and INTs at the same time.

Remember a guy named Peyton who lead the league in INT.  :)

 

And I still disagree.  I had issues sailing passes and stuff when I was young and when o got a coach who focused on the basics...my accuracy improved dramatically.  

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20 hours ago, Buffalo30 said:

He has that similar trait to Tyrod except he is willing to throw the ball downfield more than Tyrod in those situations.  Allen doesn't look to escape the pocket to dump the ball down, he is looking for chunks.

 

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10 minutes ago, Hebert19 said:

Remember a guy named Peyton who lead the league in INT.  :)

 

And I still disagree.  I had issues sailing passes and stuff when I was young and when o got a coach who focused on the basics...my accuracy improved dramatically.  

J K was not shy when it came to fitting footballs into small windows because he could,  throw a couple INT's, come back with 3 TD's

 

D did their job...

 

...Loved it...

Edited by Figster
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So regarding more "highlights."  Here are just a few of his senior bowl highlights, which I think are significant because of the caliber of players he's both playing with and against:

 

I think once you get past the first couple plays where he scrambles and get to the 30 second mark of the video, his passes really jump out and demonstrate he's more than just a strong armed big kid...

 

At that 30 second mark, Allen shows great pocket presence along with strength as he steps up in the pocket after shedding a tackler and despite that tackler getting a good hand on him and a relatively open field in front of him to gain a few yards, Allen calmly throws the ball to a WR running across the middle of the field 15-20 yards away while almost simultaneously shedding the tackler.

 

On his 1st TD pass.  He demonstrates great touch and pinpoint accuracy on a pass that travels probably 30 yards in the air... no hesitation on his part throwing to a player who's pretty well covered, either.  His 2nd TD pass showed great touch, too, though the guy was more open.

 

In fact, it was his touch on many of his passes in the Senior bowl that impressed me.  In the highlights of the OP of all the TDs, a lot of those passes were "WOW" throws, many in terms of arm strength (and accuracy), but one of the things we've been hearing so much in terms of criticism is his ability to adjust ball speed.  But the last TD throw in the highlights showed great touch and at the Senior Bowl I think you saw it even more.

 

Getting excited about what the kid could be  :thumbsup:

Edited by transplantbillsfan
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40 minutes ago, ngbills said:

 

I liked Tyrod but he just couldn't utilize some of the weapons on our roster.  For instance, He struggled with throwing the ball to Benjamin and Jones.  Hoping he gets a chance with Cleveland, he can give them a couple of wins and maybe take them to their first playoff in a while.  That's my hope.  I really wish the kid the best.  That being said, I have never had an excitement for a Buffalo QB the way I'm excited about Allen.  His potential is Rodgers.  I know we've had trouble finding a QB using potential as the main reason but this is a different regime and a different offense.  We have a redzone target in Benjamin, when healthy is one of the biggest mismatches in the league.  Allen is not like Tyrod, he is more willing to throw the ball deep down the field and throw it up to Benjamin.  Tyrod seemed to not take advantage of that mismatch.  I know Benjamin was a bit slow due to injury but he was targeted far too few  times.  Allen will throw the ball up to Benjamin, he's wants the home run plays and the big chunk plays.  I love that mentality.  Here's to Allen becoming the next great Buffalo QB!

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2 hours ago, Buffalo30 said:

I liked Tyrod but he just couldn't utilize some of the weapons on our roster.  For instance, He struggled with throwing the ball to Benjamin and Jones.  Hoping he gets a chance with Cleveland, he can give them a couple of wins and maybe take them to their first playoff in a while.  That's my hope.  I really wish the kid the best.  That being said, I have never had an excitement for a Buffalo QB the way I'm excited about Allen.  His potential is Rodgers.  I know we've had trouble finding a QB using potential as the main reason but this is a different regime and a different offense.  We have a redzone target in Benjamin, when healthy is one of the biggest mismatches in the league.  Allen is not like Tyrod, he is more willing to throw the ball deep down the field and throw it up to Benjamin.  Tyrod seemed to not take advantage of that mismatch.  I know Benjamin was a bit slow due to injury but he was targeted far too few  times.  Allen will throw the ball up to Benjamin, he's wants the home run plays and the big chunk plays.  I love that mentality.  Here's to Allen becoming the next great Buffalo QB!

Rodgers was extremely accurate. I was at many Cal practices and it was amazing to watch. Go watch the Cal v USC game when he completed like 20 straight oasses. This is not Allen.

 

In terms of throwing downfield, I included the Tyrod videos at V Tech to show how willing he is throw downfield. He did so in college and early on with the bills. 

 

For the record Tyrod had limited weapons. KB was useless with his injuries. Jones was a huge disappointment. 

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17 hours ago, ngbills said:

Rodgers was extremely accurate. I was at many Cal practices and it was amazing to watch. Go watch the Cal v USC game when he completed like 20 straight oasses. This is not Allen.

 

In terms of throwing downfield, I included the Tyrod videos at V Tech to show how willing he is throw downfield. He did so in college and early on with the bills. 

 

For the record Tyrod had limited weapons. KB was useless with his injuries. Jones was a huge disappointment. 

 

These are facts everyone forgets. When he had Sammy and at least Goodwin on the field, he was looking for the chunk play downfiled. KB isnt burning anyone with his speed and Zay Jones had a bad rookie season. Either way we need tp get JA the right weopons for him to succeed.  Our WR room is still meh. We still have no #1 WR

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18 hours ago, ngbills said:

Rodgers was extremely accurate. I was at many Cal practices and it was amazing to watch. Go watch the Cal v USC game when he completed like 20 straight oasses. This is not Allen.

 

 

You must have made a lot of money with your scouting skill back then.

 

What NFL scouts told the Journal Sentinel's Bob McGinn before the draft about quarterback Aaron Rodgers:

 

Rich Snead, Tennessee: "He had to go to a JC because no one would recruit him because they said he was too small. He's been busting his (expletive) his whole life to get to this point. I just don't know how much more he has to give."

 

AFC scout: "I think he has some upside although there are some things that are just ordinary about him."

 

NFC scout: "I think he has a good chance of being a bust. Just like every other Tedford-coached quarterback. Thing I struggle with him is he gets sacked a lot. He doesn't have great ability to change the release of the football. He's mechanically very rigid. Brett Favre can change his release point and find different windows. There will be more growing pains with Alex Smith but in the end he has a much better chance to be much better."

 

NFC scout: "The guys that Tedford has had, what have they developed into? They're too well-schooled. So mechanical. So robotic. I don't know if they become good pro players. I think Rodgers is in that same mold."

 

AFC scout: "I don't like him. He's a clone of Harrington and Boller. They all throw the same way. What have those guys done? Nothing. If you take him in the second round, fine. Heady guy. They do a marvelous job of coaching quarterbacks there. I don't think he's as good as the top quarterbacks coming out last year."

 

AFC scout: "I don't think he's in the class of the quarterbacks that came out last year. Strong arm. Pretty good athlete. Still has some holes in his game."

 

AFC scout: "He's a system quarterback. 3-, 5-, 7-step guy. Can't create on his own. Panics under pressure. Gets flustered easy. I don't think there's a quarterback in the draft worthy of a first-round pick. I'm dead serious. None of them are worth it."

 

NFC scout: "He fit right into the Cal system. He probably executed that as well as anybody. He doesn't have as strong an arm as Boller but can make the same reads and play the scheme as well as Boller did."

Edited by Wayne Arnold
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19 hours ago, ngbills said:

Rodgers was extremely accurate. I was at many Cal practices and it was amazing to watch. Go watch the Cal v USC game when he completed like 20 straight oasses. This is not Allen.

 

In terms of throwing downfield, I included the Tyrod videos at V Tech to show how willing he is throw downfield. He did so in college and early on with the bills. 

 

For the record Tyrod had limited weapons. KB was useless with his injuries. Jones was a huge disappointment. 

I did not compare the prospects of Rodgers and Allen.  If you read carefully, I said his potential is what Rodgers is in the NFL now.  He has the incredible arm talent that only a handful of QBs have ever had and the sneaky mobility to make plays both in an out of the pocket.  He goes for the big chunk plays like Rodgers does.  I did not say his accuracy was on par with Rodgers and b no means is he the same prospect coming out of college.  Don't change my words.

 

As for Tyrod, Benjamin is not a player that will get open because of his speed.  He thrives on the jump ball and Tyrod was unwilling to throw it to him.  Tyrod last year did not throw the ball down the field like he had earlier in his career.  His unwillingness to throw the ball into tight windows and trust his receivers hurt him and the offense.  The Nathan Peterman's throw to Benjamin down the sideline in the Colts game is exactly how Tyrod should have been using KB but he just wasn't willing to make those throws.  He was covered but the throw was placed high where KB could go get it.  

 

Say all you want about having limited weapons, all you need to do is watch the game film to see Tyrod missed open receivers.  I liked Tyrod but he had his limitations.

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4 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:

You must have made a lot of money with your scouting skill back then.

 

What NFL scouts told the Journal Sentinel's Bob McGinn before the draft about quarterback Aaron Rodgers:

 

I would bet my life savings that one of those AFC scouts was a Bills scout.

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5 hours ago, FearLess Price said:

 

These are facts everyone forgets. When he had Sammy and at least Goodwin on the field, he was looking for the chunk play downfiled. KB isnt burning anyone with his speed and Zay Jones had a bad rookie season. Either way we need tp get JA the right weopons for him to succeed.  Our WR room is still meh. We still have no #1 WR

Yes - Its not about liking Tyrod or liking Allen. The QB of this team needs better weapons. 

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Just realized this was all the 2016 season, nothing from last season.

Also, the majority were good TD passes, but there are a few things worth mentioning.

- He's at his best rolling out to his right

- His 3 & 4 TD games come against bad teams except for Boise State (UC Davis, Air Force, UNLV, and San Diego State)

- Good amount of play action (although it's out of shotgun)

- WR's had to make some great catches, but that's true of all QB's from time to time

- A couple of TD passes wouldn't have been TD's in the NFL (need both feet down)

- Against Big Conference teams, he was 0-3 with 1 TD and 8 INT's 

- Against Nebraska, he had a Nathan Peterman-esque game, throwing for 5 INT's.

 

Also, his 2016 season was FAR more successful than his 2017 season. He threw for half as many yards, and less than half the amount of TD's in 2017, as well as having a lower passer rating (his INT's went down too though). He did play 2 less games overall however.

It's fun seeing his TD's in a vacuum, but it's also not even close to a true picture of his playing abilities. Whether he looks good, bad, whatever, it's just a fun way to look back at certain moments. Thanks for the video.

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4 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

You must have made a lot of money with your scouting skill back then.

 

What NFL scouts told the Journal Sentinel's Bob McGinn before the draft about quarterback Aaron Rodgers:

 

Rich Snead, Tennessee: "He had to go to a JC because no one would recruit him because they said he was too small. He's been busting his (expletive) his whole life to get to this point. I just don't know how much more he has to give."

 

AFC scout: "I think he has some upside although there are some things that are just ordinary about him."

 

NFC scout: "I think he has a good chance of being a bust. Just like every other Tedford-coached quarterback. Thing I struggle with him is he gets sacked a lot. He doesn't have great ability to change the release of the football. He's mechanically very rigid. Brett Favre can change his release point and find different windows. There will be more growing pains with Alex Smith but in the end he has a much better chance to be much better."

 

NFC scout: "The guys that Tedford has had, what have they developed into? They're too well-schooled. So mechanical. So robotic. I don't know if they become good pro players. I think Rodgers is in that same mold."

 

AFC scout: "I don't like him. He's a clone of Harrington and Boller. They all throw the same way. What have those guys done? Nothing. If you take him in the second round, fine. Heady guy. They do a marvelous job of coaching quarterbacks there. I don't think he's as good as the top quarterbacks coming out last year."

 

AFC scout: "I don't think he's in the class of the quarterbacks that came out last year. Strong arm. Pretty good athlete. Still has some holes in his game."

 

AFC scout: "He's a system quarterback. 3-, 5-, 7-step guy. Can't create on his own. Panics under pressure. Gets flustered easy. I don't think there's a quarterback in the draft worthy of a first-round pick. I'm dead serious. None of them are worth it."

 

NFC scout: "He fit right into the Cal system. He probably executed that as well as anybody. He doesn't have as strong an arm as Boller but can make the same reads and play the scheme as well as Boller did."

I expected SF to take him #1 that year. I would have taken him in a heartbeat at the time. Like I said I watched him in practice all the time as I was working with the Cal sports dept at the time. The guy had it and it was obvious. Go watch his game vs USC. Look at how he elevated that team and what they were without him. 

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14 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I would bet my life savings that one of those AFC scouts was a Bills scout.

 

Haha actually the Bills scout said the following...

 

Marc Ross, Buffalo: "He's a little short. The thing you worry about is those (Jeff) Tedford guys. They don't do anything for a couple years and then they have a good year or two. Who of his quarterbacks has done what they're supposed to do? None of them. Is he just working magic with great college quarterbacks or just manufacturing guys?"

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3 hours ago, Buffalo30 said:

I did not compare the prospects of Rodgers and Allen.  If you read carefully, I said his potential is what Rodgers is in the NFL now.  He has the incredible arm talent that only a handful of QBs have ever had and the sneaky mobility to make plays both in an out of the pocket.  He goes for the big chunk plays like Rodgers does.  I did not say his accuracy was on par with Rodgers and b no means is he the same prospect coming out of college.  Don't change my words.

 

As for Tyrod, Benjamin is not a player that will get open because of his speed.  He thrives on the jump ball and Tyrod was unwilling to throw it to him.  Tyrod last year did not throw the ball down the field like he had earlier in his career.  His unwillingness to throw the ball into tight windows and trust his receivers hurt him and the offense.  The Nathan Peterman's throw to Benjamin down the sideline in the Colts game is exactly how Tyrod should have been using KB but he just wasn't willing to make those throws.  He was covered but the throw was placed high where KB could go get it.  

 

Say all you want about having limited weapons, all you need to do is watch the game film to see Tyrod missed open receivers.  I liked Tyrod but he had his limitations.

 

I'm not sure how much of Allen I'd compare to Rodgers, but yes, Allen has a fantastic arm. If he's willing to throw deep (or if our now even worse O-line will let him) he can find a lot of success.

In regards to Tyrod, you're spot-on. Benjamin isn't a speedy receiver. He's fast enough to get open, but his skillset highlights his ability to run routes and catch 50/50 (or better) passes over DB's. Benjamin is a great weapon, make no mistake about it. Tyrod refused to throw him open, or throw him any jump balls. However, that was Tyrod's problem with all receivers last year. 

90% of the time, Tyrod would only throw to WR's that were open by 5 feet on all sides of the ball, or within a few yards of the line of scrimmage. He wasn't just risk-adverse, he was downright timid. People used to say he was "efficient" because he didn't throw INT's....but as one NFL writer explained when discussing Kirk Cousins, "efficient" isn't just not throwing INT's, it's also being alert of what's going on around you, and general awareness of game time situations (i.e. if you're down by 20+ late in the 3rd quarter, and it's 3rd & 13, is it "efficient" to drop back for 1 second, then dump the ball off to your RB for a 2 yard gain?). 

Tyrod at his best was at least good for 1 or 2 deep balls a game in his first 2 seasons. He still only barely scraped by hitting 3,000 yards in a season, but still, managed to make a few plays. In 2017, Tyrod put Trent Edwards to shame. Every time he threw deep, it was almost as if he was doing it for show more than actually attempting to complete the pass. The balls would float several yards over both the WR & DB's heads, straight out of bounds, with no chance for anyone to catch the ball. It made it LOOK like he wanted to go deep, but without any intention for the ball to make it in the hands of anyone. 

Hopefully Allen plays with a little more fire, but also has the mindset to get over making mistakes. He'll throw some picks, but will he have the balls to keep attacking? We can only hope. 

/rant

6 minutes ago, ngbills said:

I expected SF to take him #1 that year. I would have taken him in a heartbeat at the time. Like I said I watched him in practice all the time as I was working with the Cal sports dept at the time. The guy had it and it was obvious. Go watch his game vs USC. Look at how he elevated that team and what they were without him. 

 

Here's the thing scouts, fans, and "experts" tend to overlook - having a veteran QB on the roster, and giving a rookie QB TIME to develop, are MASSIVELY important to the growth of the player.

Some QB's come in day 1 and do just fine all on their own. But many rookies, including those who start day 1, have an experienced veteran on the roster to help anchor them down, be someone to lean on when they're struggling, and learn how to properly lead an NFL locker room from. Even though Favre wasn't wanting to give up his starting spot, he still played a pivotal role in allowing Rodgers to gain experience & knowledge while he became acclimated to being in the NFL. 

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44 minutes ago, BigDingus said:

 

I'm not sure how much of Allen I'd compare to Rodgers, but yes, Allen has a fantastic arm. If he's willing to throw deep (or if our now even worse O-line will let him) he can find a lot of success.

In regards to Tyrod, you're spot-on. Benjamin isn't a speedy receiver. He's fast enough to get open, but his skillset highlights his ability to run routes and catch 50/50 (or better) passes over DB's. Benjamin is a great weapon, make no mistake about it. Tyrod refused to throw him open, or throw him any jump balls. However, that was Tyrod's problem with all receivers last year. 

90% of the time, Tyrod would only throw to WR's that were open by 5 feet on all sides of the ball, or within a few yards of the line of scrimmage. He wasn't just risk-adverse, he was downright timid. People used to say he was "efficient" because he didn't throw INT's....but as one NFL writer explained when discussing Kirk Cousins, "efficient" isn't just not throwing INT's, it's also being alert of what's going on around you, and general awareness of game time situations (i.e. if you're down by 20+ late in the 3rd quarter, and it's 3rd & 13, is it "efficient" to drop back for 1 second, then dump the ball off to your RB for a 2 yard gain?). 

Tyrod at his best was at least good for 1 or 2 deep balls a game in his first 2 seasons. He still only barely scraped by hitting 3,000 yards in a season, but still, managed to make a few plays. In 2017, Tyrod put Trent Edwards to shame. Every time he threw deep, it was almost as if he was doing it for show more than actually attempting to complete the pass. The balls would float several yards over both the WR & DB's heads, straight out of bounds, with no chance for anyone to catch the ball. It made it LOOK like he wanted to go deep, but without any intention for the ball to make it in the hands of anyone. 

Hopefully Allen plays with a little more fire, but also has the mindset to get over making mistakes. He'll throw some picks, but will he have the balls to keep attacking? We can only hope. 
 

Yes, that was my point.  Allen is better suited for this team and what we are trying to do.  I really want to see the connection of Allen to Benjamin.  That's got some special potential.  The Rodgers comparison is due to Allen's traits.  He's mobile and throws very well outside the pocket deep down the field.  Aaron Rodgers does this better than anyone in the league and I think Allen has that potential at his best if he ever makes it there.  He's so young and has much to learn but I think he is coming into a great situation.  He'll have a solid defense and running back to start with and Benjamin and Clay are very talented but weren't utilitzed enough with Tyrod.  Zay is young and has something to prove and O'leary has some nice hands for a second tight end.  Mccoy is perfect for a young QB, we wouldn't have to rely on the rookie for every point.  If Allen becomes anything close to his potential...this team will be back in business.

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51 minutes ago, jethro_tull said:

why do i actually need to watch him play when troy aikman said hes going to be a huge bust?

after watching the videos i dont think troy aikman ever watched him play. 

 

Could be wrong but I don't think Aikman ever said he watched him play. Just hopped on the "inaccuracy" bandwagon and said "I think as a quarterback when you're inaccurate, from my experience as a player in studying these guys for the last 17 years, you usually do not overcome that."

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On 5/5/2018 at 4:46 PM, Wayne Arnold said:

 

Haha actually the Bills scout said the following...

 

Marc Ross, Buffalo: "He's a little short. The thing you worry about is those (Jeff) Tedford guys. They don't do anything for a couple years and then they have a good year or two. Who of his quarterbacks has done what they're supposed to do? None of them. Is he just working magic with great college quarterbacks or just manufacturing guys?"

 

This just makes me sad.

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On 5/5/2018 at 5:05 PM, jethro_tull said:

why do i actually need to watch him play when troy aikman said hes going to be a huge bust?

after watching the videos i dont think troy aikman ever watched him play

 

 

exactly. aikman is nothing more than an overpaid blowhard...

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On 5/5/2018 at 2:37 PM, BigDingus said:

Just realized this was all the 2016 season, nothing from last season.

Also, the majority were good TD passes, but there are a few things worth mentioning.

- He's at his best rolling out to his right

- His 3 & 4 TD games come against bad teams except for Boise State (UC Davis, Air Force, UNLV, and San Diego State)

- Good amount of play action (although it's out of shotgun)

- WR's had to make some great catches, but that's true of all QB's from time to time

- A couple of TD passes wouldn't have been TD's in the NFL (need both feet down)

- Against Big Conference teams, he was 0-3 with 1 TD and 8 INT's 

- Against Nebraska, he had a Nathan Peterman-esque game, throwing for 5 INT's.

 

Also, his 2016 season was FAR more successful than his 2017 season. He threw for half as many yards, and less than half the amount of TD's in 2017, as well as having a lower passer rating (his INT's went down too though). He did play 2 less games overall however.

It's fun seeing his TD's in a vacuum, but it's also not even close to a true picture of his playing abilities. Whether he looks good, bad, whatever, it's just a fun way to look back at certain moments. Thanks for the video.

His receivers were better quality in 2016 as well......

On 5/5/2018 at 3:45 PM, wppete said:

 

I am in love

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