One thing is for sure...Beane and McD are NOT conservative

[Roundybout]

My ultimate nightmare scenario was staying pat at 12, taking BPA, and then taking nice, benign Mason Rudolph at 22. That is what a conservative coach would have done. 

 

But, no, Beane and McDermott swung for the fences with the ultimate boom or bust QB prospect. He played his cards pretty damn well, and while I would rather have Rosen, you cannot deny that Allen could be a monster with a little tweaking. 

 

Edmunds is just going to be so good, too. Just so good. 

 

All in all, while I am still pretty sad we picked the other Josh, I am pleased that the FO is not sitting on their hands. 

[PromoTheRobot]

Jeremy White on WGR is the guy banging the drum the loudest that the Bills shouldn't play it safe and swing for the fences. He even said he wouldn't care if the Bills pick was a bust as long as the Bills made bold moves. Well, listen to Jeremy this morning....

[Kirby Jackson]

2 minutes ago, BillsEnthusiast said:

My ultimate nightmare scenario was staying pat at 12, taking BPA, and then taking nice, benign Mason Rudolph at 22. That is what a conservative coach would have done. 

 

But, no, Beane and McDermott swung for the fences with the ultimate boom or bust QB prospect. He played his cards pretty damn well, and while I would rather have Rosen, you cannot deny that Allen could be a monster with a little tweaking. 

 

Edmunds is just going to be so good, too. Just so good. 

 

All in all, while I am still pretty sad we picked the other Josh, I am pleased that the FO is not sitting on their hands. 

Really well said!! I couldn’t agree more. 

[Rob's House]

Take it to PPP.

[Boatdrinks]

1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Jeremy White on WGR is the guy banging the drum the loudest that the Bills shouldn't play it safe and swing for the fences. He even said he wouldn't care if the Bills pick was a bust as long as the Bills made bold moves. Well, listen to Jeremy this morning....

Jeremy loves that bold strategy, as long as it's for the player he likes. 

[billspro]

Honestly I give them credit. I am very conservative with my QB rankings. They took the biggest boom/bust project in the draft. If they hit Allen will be an absolute steal at pick 7. 

[Rosen-not-Chosen]

2 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Jeremy White on WGR is the guy banging the drum the loudest that the Bills shouldn't play it safe and swing for the fences. He even said he wouldn't care if the Bills pick was a bust as long as the Bills made bold moves. Well, listen to Jeremy this morning....

 

Because they picked the wrong damn player.

[PromoTheRobot]

2 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Jeremy loves that bold strategy, as long as it's for the player he likes. 

 

So it's fine if it's a player HE LIKES turns out to be a bust.

[BuffaloRush]

2 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Jeremy White on WGR is the guy banging the drum the loudest that the Bills shouldn't play it safe and swing for the fences. He even said he wouldn't care if the Bills pick was a bust as long as the Bills made bold moves. Well, listen to Jeremy this morning....

 

You are spot on about this.  I didn’t like the Allen pick and wanted Rosen.  But I did appreciate the fact that Beane went up and got th QB that he wanted.  

 

Your point about Jeremy White was perfect.  He has repeatedly said that the Bills need to get a QB and not play it safe.  This morning he’s complaining that we traded too much.  It’s lame. 

[CardinalScotts]

2 minutes ago, BuffaloRush said:

 

You are spot on about this.  I didn’t like the Allen pick and wanted Rosen.  But I did appreciate the fact that Beane went up and got th QB that he wanted.  

 

Your point about Jeremy White was perfect.  He has repeatedly said that the Bills need to get a QB and not play it safe.  This morning he’s complaining that we traded too much.  It’s lame. 

Jeremy likes to argue it fills  the 4 hour time slot and substitutes for show prep. 

Also

As stated in other posts I like the Allen selection 

Edited April 27, 2018 by CardinalScotts

[Jamie Mueller]

8 minutes ago, BillsEnthusiast said:

My ultimate nightmare scenario was staying pat at 12, taking BPA, and then taking nice, benign Mason Rudolph at 22. That is what a conservative coach would have done. 

 

But, no, Beane and McDermott swung for the fences with the ultimate boom or bust QB prospect. He played his cards pretty damn well, and while I would rather have Rosen, you cannot deny that Allen could be a monster with a little tweaking. 

 

Edmunds is just going to be so good, too. Just so good. 

 

All in all, while I am still pretty sad we picked the other Josh, I am pleased that the FO is not sitting on their hands. 

 

I guess this is right... but Rosen would have been a big swing too!

[hondo in seattle]

I really didn't want Allen but it's hard to fault Beane for moving on from TT's mediocrity, signing Mccarron as a safety net,  and then 'swinging for the fences' with Allen.

 

 

[D521646]

16 minutes ago, BillsEnthusiast said:

My ultimate nightmare scenario was staying pat at 12, taking BPA, and then taking nice, benign Mason Rudolph at 22. That is what a conservative coach would have done. 

 

But, no, Beane and McDermott swung for the fences with the ultimate boom or bust QB prospect. He played his cards pretty damn well, and while I would rather have Rosen, you cannot deny that Allen could be a monster with a little tweaking. 

 

Edmunds is just going to be so good, too. Just so good. 

 

All in all, while I am still pretty sad we picked the other Josh, I am pleased that the FO is not sitting on their hands. 

 

I think we got the right Josh, to be honest, I just think we paid maybe a bit too much for him, but of course I wasn't there, and both the Cards, and Miami wanted QB's.. So, Josh Allen it is, Go Bills!

 

Tim-

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

I didn't have a preference at QB so it didn't hit me as hard like it has many, I've been following all these guys for a few years now and the ceiling of Allen is very high, I think he's going to be a great QB under this regime. Getting Edmunds at 16 is highway robbery and will be our Luke Keuchly, he has plenty of time to hone his craft at 19. I'd like to see them get another pass rusher in the 3rd round to go along with Murphy/Hughes/meatball in rotation, we can only hope a guy like Maurice Hurst/Sam Hubbard fall to us in the 3rd, doubtful but you never know.

[PIZ]

Are they going to be aggressive and move into Round 2?  Could they package their 3 and a 2019 pick to get a 2nd round pick?  Shaq Lawson for a pick, or does he stay on the roster?

[Rosen-not-Chosen]

They are also not very intelligent..  They overpaid to move from 12 to 7, then picked a project QB instead of a franchise QB.

[SouthNYfan]

3 minutes ago, Rosen-not-Chosen said:

They are also not very intelligent..  They overpaid to move from 12 to 7, then picked a project QB instead of a franchise QB.

 

#bias

[Buddy Hix]

Not conservative but are old school to a fault. They both seem to live in the past and ignore analytics, time will tell if it pays off but I have a bad feeling it won’t.

[Rosen-not-Chosen]

1 minute ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

#bias

 

#homer

[Malazan]

 

1 minute ago, Buddy Hix said:

Not conservative but are old school to a fault. They both seem to live in the past and ignore analytics, time will tell if it pays off but I have a bad feeling it won’t.

 

What analytics are being ignored? Could you post the stats that indicate QB success in the NFL that Rosen/Allen have/don't have?

[SouthNYfan]

4 minutes ago, Rosen-not-Chosen said:

 

#homer

 

No.

I honestly was okay with all of them.

I preferred Rosen myself, but stop acting like it's the end of the world.

[hondo in seattle]

11 minutes ago, Rosen-not-Chosen said:

They are also not very intelligent..  They overpaid to move from 12 to 7, then picked a project QB instead of a franchise QB.

 

I think it was a risk-reward evaluation.  None of this year's QBs are close to being sure-things.  Historically, most 1st round QB aren't.    There are risks no matter which QB you take.

Most draft analysts say the risk for Allen is higher than the other guys in that Top  Four group.  The main concern is that 'you can't fix accuracy.'  

 

But many draft analysts also say Allen has a higher ceiling than his peers.  Mayock, for example, thinks Allen could be "special."

 

The choice ultimately came down to the two Joshes.  The Bills may have seen more risk with Allen but also saw more potential reward.  Even if the pick doesn't pan out, it doesn't mean the thought process was wrong.  You have to roll the dice.  Sometimes you'll win; sometimes you'll lose.  If Beane is good at his job, he'll win more than the 31 other GMs.

 

They gave up two #2's to get the guy they wanted.  If this works out, it'll be a great deal.  If not, life goes on and you swing again.

Edited April 27, 2018 by hondo in seattle

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

I’d say there is a clear pattern from last night.

 

they took took physical monsters that have major NFL level flaws. 

 

They are banking on their coaching process to fix those flaws, which In theory may be possible. 

 

Ill say this they sure belive in their process...

 

unassailable confidence? 

Suicidal  arrogance? 

 

Time  will tell 

[Rosen-not-Chosen]

Just now, SouthNYfan said:

 

No.

I honestly was okay with all of them.

I preferred Rosen myself, but stop acting like it's the end of the world.

 

It's not the end of the world, it just means ~3 more years of a **** team, fire the FO, look for a real franchise QB.  You know, more of the same...

[SouthNYfan]

6 minutes ago, Rosen-not-Chosen said:

 

It's not the end of the world, it just means ~3 more years of a **** team, fire the FO, look for a real franchise QB.  You know, more of the same...

 

Meh.

All 4 were a risk.

[Rosen-not-Chosen]

2 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

Meh.

All 4 were a risk.

 

And they chose the riskier of the two, great...

[zevo]

55 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Jeremy White on WGR is the guy banging the drum the loudest that the Bills shouldn't play it safe and swing for the fences. He even said he wouldn't care if the Bills pick was a bust as long as the Bills made bold moves. Well, listen to Jeremy this morning....

He is one of the biggest hypocrites out there and his love for Rosen ,I feel, was partly politically motivated...just my opinion.

[ngbills]

6 players in first three rounds or 3 players in those rounds?

 

Likely would still have gotten Allen or Rosen at 12. Then any of WR Moore or Ridley, LB Evans, OL Wynn or Hernandez. So one of them and 4 more guys in 2nd and 3rd rounds.

 

Now we have Allen and Edmunds and a late 3rd rounder TBD.

 

[BuffaloRush]

19 minutes ago, zevo said:

He is one of the biggest hypocrites out there and his love for Rosen ,I feel, was partly politically motivated...just my opinion.

 

I also believe it was very much politically motivated.  I like Jeremy but he came off a whinging baby this morning.  Same thing for Howard.  When a fan called them out and told them to say it to face, Howard walked his comments way back

13 minutes ago, ngbills said:

6 players in first three rounds or 3 players in those rounds?

 

Likely would still have gotten Allen or Rosen at 12. Then any of WR Moore or Ridley, LB Evans, OL Wynn or Hernandez. So one of them and 4 more guys in 2nd and 3rd rounds.

 

Now we have Allen and Edmunds and a late 3rd rounder TBD.

 

 

Flawed logic.  If Arizona trades up for Allen and Miami takes Rosen, people would be pissed they didn’t move up.  Lose lose situation for the Bills.

 

They could have waited until Arizona made the trade to move up, but I don’t think they would have been ok with losing Allen.  He was their guy 100%

[Beast]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Jeremy White on WGR is the guy banging the drum the loudest that the Bills shouldn't play it safe and swing for the fences. He even said he wouldn't care if the Bills pick was a bust as long as the Bills made bold moves. Well, listen to Jeremy this morning....

 

Jeremy White is a !@#$ing tool. That was one embarrassing show.

[zevo]

9 minutes ago, Binghamton Beast said:

 

Jeremy White is a !@#$ing tool. That was one embarrassing show.

Agreed..I tuned in for a total of 2 minutes...turned it right back off....

[SouthNYfan]

1 hour ago, Rosen-not-Chosen said:

 

And they chose the riskier of the two, great...

 

Allen had a fractured collarbone on his throwing side in high school, and again freshman year in college. 

The college one seemed to be a freak accident (shattered by a player's helmet which snuck between his own pads and helmet).

It was fixed, and he has had no issues since.

He had some minor soft tissue (probably a capsular strain) on his R shoulder towards the end of last season, missed 2 games as a precaution, but no pain or issue otherwise.

 

Rosen had a surgical repair of his throwing shoulder his sophmore year, causing him to miss quite a few months, and it was deemed, from what I can find, to be either a labral tear or a rotator cuff tear. 

This seemed to have healed up fine, with no issues his final year playing due to his shoulder, the issue was his concussions.

Two concussions, very close together, are bad.

Very bad.

Concussions multiply the future risk of more every time you sustain one.

He has had two prior to even stepping foot on an NFL field.

That is VERY risky, and 90% the reason he dropped.

 

So, while Allen may be the bigger risk in terms of actual ability to play QB at the NFL level (though he has the highest ceiling), his injury risk is nowhere near that of Rosen's.

It's hard to play QB when you're knocked unconscious repeatedly *see steve young*.

1 hour ago, BuffaloRush said:

 

I also believe it was very much politically motivated.  I like Jeremy but he came off a whinging baby this morning.  Same thing for Howard.  When a fan called them out and told them to say it to face, Howard walked his comments way back

 

Flawed logic.  If Arizona trades up for Allen and Miami takes Rosen, people would be pissed they didn’t move up.  Lose lose situation for the Bills.

 

They could have waited until Arizona made the trade to move up, but I don’t think they would have been ok with losing Allen.  He was their guy 100%

 

Dude was tellin' me this in another thread, complaining that Buffalo traded up for a "guy who would have been there at #12".

I agree with  you Rush, that Allen and Rosen both would have been gone.

Miami would have taken one I'm sure of it, and AZ was obviously trading up ahead of us, which means we would have been left with neither.

The other flawed logic that you didn't go into is that "6 players vs 3 players" doesn't mean anything.

#12, #22, two second rounders, and two third rounders is 6 players sure, but they are less "sure thing" and players than #7 and #16 in terms of talent.

I would rather have two picks in the top 16 than #12, #22, #53 and #56.

[Magox]

I don't know, McD doesn't seem like a progressive to me either.

[Buddy Hix]

9 hours ago, jeremy2020 said:

 

 

What analytics are being ignored? Could you post the stats that indicate QB success in the NFL that Rosen/Allen have/don't have?

I could but it would require my time, spend yours. Start with run attempts per team for each of the top 5 QBs...

[Shaw66]

10 hours ago, BuffaloRush said:

 

You are spot on about this.  I didn’t like the Allen pick and wanted Rosen.  But I did appreciate the fact that Beane went up and got th QB that he wanted.  

 

 

I've been defending Tom Donahoe for years.  He traded back up into the first round to take Losman.   Obviously didn't work, but the GM's job is to go get talent.   Whaley, Nix - they all showed courage.   They took chances.   That's what the job requires.   The Bills have been plagued by a series of bad judgments.   

 

Let's hope that's changing. 

[GreggTX]

They are swinging for the fences with guys that have freakish abilities that can be honed into game changing performance. Both 1st rounders need coaching up, but their ceilings arer off the charts.

[Malazan]

15 hours ago, Buddy Hix said:

I could but it would require my time, spend yours. Start with run attempts per team for each of the top 5 QBs...

 

sounds like you're pulling shite out yo behind

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 4/27/2018 at 11:47 AM, PromoTheRobot said:

Jeremy White on WGR is the guy banging the drum the loudest that the Bills shouldn't play it safe and swing for the fences. He even said he wouldn't care if the Bills pick was a bust as long as the Bills made bold moves. Well, listen to Jeremy this morning....

 

Fortunately, my ears are spared that pastime.  Can you summarize?

[PromoTheRobot]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Fortunately, my ears are spared that pastime.  Can you summarize?

He was complaining the Bills wasted draft picks on a QB.

[QCity]

You knew they weren't conservative when they moved on from TT.  This isn't a front office that is just trying to keep their jobs by building playoff pretenders, even though that seems to be the bar for success with this fanbase.